If you want to create a new false religion what's the best way to start?
Think up something crazy and market it.
Some fish will bite. People will fall for anything.
e.g Scientology
But to be really plausible- just market it to an already existing and established market
i.e the christian sheeple people.
And so so many false christian sects have been born.
But they all follow a pattern.
Besides, market something off the offshoots of christianity makes it more plausible.

Here are some patterns

1) Start with the bible, then deviate to some other niche. Harp on the niche
With Jehovah witnesses,its the name of God
With SDA (seven day adventists) it's sabbath
With catholicism its (Divinity of Mary)

2) They put down the person of Jesus Christ
in subtle ways all pseudo christian sects dont exalt Jesus and what he has done.
The put him down.
In islam he is a prophet (just another prophet of allah)
In jehovah witnesses he is a created being
in catholocism he isnt the way . No not the only way
In mormonism he is the favoured child of God and God is just an ascended human

3) Create barriers to direct access to God
In the bible, after the start of the new covenant. Man has direct access to God.
The bible says "[you] come boldly to the throne of grace ... "
In false religion its not so. Man is the intermediary.
Man is elevated to the place of Christ to vet those who will come to God.
In catholocism - its the priest
In Jehovah witnesses its the elders
etc
There is not personal relationship with God in these religions.
The members are not taught to cultivate a personal intimacy with God.
But we see a God who in the beginning made time to hang out with man in the garden of eden.

4) Thrive on ignorance and discourage questioning
In Jehovah witnesses, members are brainwashed to not question the tenets of the faith
but to whole heartedly believe the teaching handed down to them
in Islam, questioning could lead to death
In catholocism, the pope is already diety or demi-god, no questioning needed.
In all false christian sects - intense questioning is frowned upon.
Stringent measures are put in place to discourage these practices.
The reason is obvious. Isolate members from the truth, then enshroud them in a fog of lies (darkness).

5) Extra-biblical materials
In seventh day adventists , it's the teaching of their founder- ellen G white
IN Jehovah witnesses,it's the teachings of the watchtower and their publications
In islam its ofcourse the koran
In mormonism , they've got their book of mormons
in catholicism they've got the apocryphal books

6) Special unique revelations
The bible says, no prophecy is of private interpretation.
Flip this on its head and you get the patterns of inspirations that other false sects build on-special revelation only their founders have.
To build a biblical doctrine, all revelations must be submitted to the acid-test of the rest of the scriptures,
for in the mouth of two or three witnesses a matter is established.
Not so with these groups.
With SDA - it's ellen G white's prophecies
With JW's- the revelation handed down by charles taze russell
With Mormons - joseph's smith's revelations
With islam - Muhammed's revelations
etc
Infact these sects build off entirely on false revelations

7) Changing the bible to suit their theology
For those who use the bible, they eventually have to alter the bible to suit their thinking
- with JW (a new bible has to be written that inserts words not found in the original manuscript)
- with Koran (they claim the comforter (the holy spirit is Muhammed)
- With catholicism, they use the vulgate bible rather than the other authentic translations other bibles are derived from.
etc

Emphasize personal efforts for salvation
The difference btwn true christianity and other religions is that , Christ did it all for his people.
You just receive Him and trust in His finished works to be saved.
While you've got to live holy but it's not your effort that saves you.
In contrast, false sects pride themselves in their works and their righteousness.
In islam - the works are giving, praying 5 times a day
In JW - evangelize,
In catholocism - numerous (infact catholocism is notorious for this. At a time the catholic church sold indulgences! pay to get your loved ones out of purgatory)
In SDA - observe the sabbath, abstain from pork etc
It's all about how good you've been to earn salvation.
with this works mentality adherents are kept under an abiding sense of guiltiness. They are always questioning wether they've done enough to earn God's favour or not.
Couple this with the elevation of man as their intermediary between God , and the perfect system for
manipulation is installed.
In the end it's all bondage!!

Once, the recipe for a false religion is in place. With patience and proper marketing, lots of gullible members will be drawn in in time.

asalimpo:
If you want to create a new false religion what's the best way to start?
Think up something crazy and market it.
Some fish will bite. People will fall for anything.
e.g Scientology
But to be really plausible- just market it to an already existing and established market
i.e the christian sheeple people.
And so so many false christian sects have been born.
But they all follow a pattern.
Besides, market something off the offshoots of christianity makes it more plausible.

Here are some patterns

1) Start with the bible, then deviate to some other niche. Harp on the niche
With Jehovah witnesses,its the name of God
With SDA (seven day adventists) it's sabbath
With catholicism its (Divinity of Mary)

2) They put down the person of Jesus Christ
in subtle ways all pseudo christian sects dont exalt Jesus and what he has done.
The put him down.
In islam he is a prophet (just another prophet of allah)
In jehovah witnesses he is a created being
in catholocism he isnt the way . No not the only way
In mormonism he is the favoured child of God and God is just an ascended human

3) Create barriers to direct access to God
In the bible, after the start of the new covenant. Man has direct access to God.
The bible says "[you] come boldly to the throne of grace ... "
In false religion its not so. Man is the intermediary.
Man is elevated to the place of Christ to vet those who will come to God.
In catholocism - its the priest
In Jehovah witnesses its the elders
etc
There is not personal relationship with God in these religions.
The members are not taught to cultivate a personal intimacy with God.
But we see a God who in the beginning made time to hang out with man in the garden of eden.

4) Thrive on ignorance and discourage questioning
In Jehovah witnesses, members are brainwashed to not question the tenets of the faith
but to whole heartedly believe the teaching handed down to them
in Islam, questioning could lead to death
In catholocism, the pope is already diety or demi-god, no questioning needed.
In all false christian sects - intense questioning is frowned upon.
Stringent measures are put in place to discourage these practices.
The reason is obvious. Isolate members from the truth, then enshroud them in a fog of lies (darkness).

5) Extra-biblical materials
In seventh day adventists , it's the teaching of their founder- ellen G white
IN Jehovah witnesses,it's the teachings of the watchtower and their publications
In islam its ofcourse the koran
In mormonism , they've got their book of mormons
in catholicism they've got the apocryphal books

6) Special unique revelations
The bible says, no prophecy is of private interpretation.
Flip this on its head and you get the patterns of inspirations that other false sects build on-special revelation only their founders have.
To build a biblical doctrine, all revelations must be submitted to the acid-test of the rest of the scriptures,
for in the mouth of two or three witnesses a matter is established.
Not so with these groups.
With SDA - it's ellen G white's prophecies
With JW's- the revelation handed down by charles taze russell
With Mormons - joseph's smith's revelations
With islam - Muhammed's revelations
etc
Infact these sects build off entirely on false revelations

7) Changing the bible to suit their theology
For those who use the bible, they eventually have to alter the bible to suit their thinking
- with JW (a new bible has to be written that inserts words not found in the original manuscript)
- with Koran (they claim the comforter (the holy spirit is Muhammed)
- With catholicism, they use the vulgate bible rather than the other authentic translations other bibles are derived from.
etc

Emphasize personal efforts for salvation
The difference btwn true christianity and other religions is that , Christ did it all for his people.
You just receive Him and trust in His finished works to be saved.
While you've got to live holy but it's not your effort that saves you.
In contrast, false sects pride themselves in their works and their righteousness.
In islam - the works are giving, praying 5 times a day
In JW - evangelize,
In catholocism - numerous (infact catholocism is notorious for this. At a time the catholic church sold indulgences! pay to get your loved ones out of purgatory)
In SDA - observe the sabbath, abstain from pork etc
It's all about how good you've been to earn salvation.
with this works mentality adherents are kept under an abiding sense of guiltiness. They are always questioning wether they've done enough to earn God's favour or not.
Couple this with the elevation of man as their intermediary between God , and the perfect system for
manipulation is installed.
In the end it's all bondage!!

Once, the recipe for a false religion is in place. With patience and proper marketing, lots of gullible members will be drawn in in time.

please before you start spreading information make sure it is true
1 Catholic do NOT teach or believe in anything called the divinity of Mary
2. in Catholicism Jesus is THE way.

3. Catholics are taught to develop personal, covenantal intimate relationship with God

Ubenedictus:


please before you start spreading information make sure it is true
1 Catholic do NOT teach or believe in anything called the divinity of Mary
2. in Catholicism Jesus is THE way.

3. Catholics are taught to develop personal, covenantal intimate relationship with God

the priest is not an obstacle to God he is a guide

Ubenedictus:


please before you start spreading information make sure it is true
1 Catholic do NOT teach or believe in anything called the divinity of Mary
2. in Catholicism Jesus is THE way.

3. Catholics are taught to develop personal, covenantal intimate relationship with God

4 in Catholicism the Pope is not a deity nor semi deity, he is questioned, always was since the time of Peter, Catholicism doesn't discourage questions, it does laugh at close minded criticisms born of ignorance such as these.
if you have a question any knowledgeable Catholic or priest or bishop will gladly answer u.

IN PENTECOSTALISM THEY DEVIATE INTO TITHES AND PRIVATE JETS

asalimpo:
If you want to create a new false religion what's the best way to start?
Think up something crazy and market it.
Some fish will bite. People will fall for anything.
e.g Scientology
But to be really plausible- just market it to an already existing and established market
i.e the christian sheeple people.
And so so many false christian sects have been born.
But they all follow a pattern.
Besides, market something off the offshoots of christianity makes it more plausible.

Here are some patterns

5) Extra-biblical materials
In seventh day adventists , it's the teaching of their founder- ellen G white
IN Jehovah witnesses,it's the teachings of the watchtower and their publications
In islam its ofcourse the koran
In mormonism , they've got their book of mormons
in catholicism they've got the apocryphal books

6) Special unique revelations
The bible says, no prophecy is of private interpretation.
Flip this on its head and you get the patterns of inspirations that other false sects build on-special revelation only their founders have.
To build a biblical doctrine, all revelations must be submitted to the acid-test of the rest of the scriptures,
for in the mouth of two or three witnesses a matter is established.
Not so with these groups.
With SDA - it's ellen G white's prophecies
With JW's- the revelation handed down by charles taze russell
With Mormons - joseph's smith's revelations
With islam - Muhammed's revelations
etc
Infact these sects build off entirely on false revelations

7) Changing the bible to suit their theology
For those who use the bible, they eventually have to alter the bible to suit their thinking
- with JW (a new bible has to be written that inserts words not found in the original manuscript)
- with Koran (they claim the comforter (the holy spirit is Muhammed)
- With catholicism, they use the vulgate bible rather than the other authentic translations other bibles are derived from.
etc

Emphasize personal efforts for salvation
The difference btwn true christianity and other religions is that , Christ did it all for his people.
You just receive Him and trust in His finished works to be saved.
While you've got to live holy but it's not your effort that saves you.
In contrast, false sects pride themselves in their works and their righteousness.
In islam - the works are giving, praying 5 times a day
In JW - evangelize,
In catholocism - numerous (infact catholocism is notorious for this. At a time the catholic church sold indulgences! pay to get your loved ones out of purgatory)
In SDA - observe the sabbath, abstain from pork etc
It's all about how good you've been to earn salvation.
with this works mentality adherents are kept under an abiding sense of guiltiness. They are always questioning wether they've done enough to earn God's favour or not.
Couple this with the elevation of man as their intermediary between God , and the perfect system for
manipulation is installed.
In the end it's all bondage!!

Once, the recipe for a false religion is in place. With patience and proper marketing, lots of gullible members will be drawn in in time.

5. the books you call apocypha is rightly called deuterocanonical and it is not extra biblical, when the early Church compiled the Bible 1600year ago, those books were all part of the Christian Bible, it was the Protestants who removed them because they didn't like the word, 500years ago.

7. in Catholicism the Syrian Catholic Church uses the Aramaic Bible, the bazentine Catholics use the Greek Bible, the Roman Church uses the Vulgate, in fact the previous pope was proficient in both koine Greek and Latin, so who told you Catholics only use the vulgate

THE FOUNDATIONAL LIES OF ASALIMPO part 2.
U run komot from part 1 where your serial lies were exposed & U come open your market for part.2 . Jehovah jireh na d name of God? Lie again make God's word the Bible expose U. (Gen22:14).

Ubenedictus:


please before you start spreading information make sure it is true
1 Catholic do NOT teach or believe in anything called the divinity of Mary
2. in Catholicism Jesus is THE way.

3. Catholics are taught to develop personal, covenantal intimate relationship with God

Catholicism mixes truth with its lies-how else do you appear convincing.
What about the doctrine of purgatory?
Who is the medium to God?
Why do you chant "Holy mary mother of God pray for us sinners .... "
Who is the pope? Christ's vicar on earth?!
Dont get me started on catholocism bro - that's talk for another day.
Align your beliefs with the bible not man made adulterations.

Ubenedictus:

4 in Catholicism the Pope is not a deity nor semi deity, he is questioned, always was since the time of Peter, Catholicism doesn't discourage questions, it does laugh at close minded criticisms born of ignorance such as these.
if you have a question any knowledgeable Catholic or priest or bishop will gladly answer u.

Catholocism is a whole can of worms on it's own.
Disguised and perfumed idolatory!!
That image has pagan origins.
Was peter the apostle to rome? NO!
But catholocism say so.
What is the rosary you people pray!!! - (Which command in the bible (NT) says to do so?)
The oath of celibacy is from where? That oath has caused more abortions ,in secret , than any other thing.
So much sx goes on in seminaries - it's an open secret.
Like the bible foretold - "foreboding to marry ... " (one of the last days false righteousness trends)
Why enjoin such unbiblical practices? Because you people go about trying to establish your own righteousness instead of resting in the finished work of Christ.

Ubenedictus:
5. the books you call apocypha is rightly called deuterocanonical and it is not extra biblical, when the early Church compiled the Bible 1600year ago, those books were all part of the Christian Bible, it was the Protestants who removed them because they didn't like the word, 500years ago.

7. in Catholicism the Syrian Catholic Church uses the Aramaic Bible, the bazentine Catholics use the Greek Bible, the Roman Church uses the Vulgate, in fact the previous pope was proficient in both koine Greek and Latin, so who told you Catholics only use the vulgate

To introduce heresies and errors like the JWs do - you have to establish that the forebears were in error!!!
The early church founding fathers,under the leadership of the Holy Spirit,sealed the revelation of God with the book of revelation. And it is said that whoever adds to the word of God or takes away from it will have curses and judgement of God on Him. (REvelations 22 v 18).

What about confession of one's sins to another human being?
The making of a saint by the will of man (the utterances of the pope)! Blasphemy
You may defend the lie or allow the truth change you by conforming to it

OneJ:
THE FOUNDATIONAL LIES OF ASALIMPO part 2.
U run komot from part 1 where your serial lies were exposed & U come open your market for part.2 . Jehovah jireh na d name of God? Lie again make God's word the Bible expose U. (Gen22:14).

if Jireh is not God's name what is it?
As for your JW.org lies - incredulous lies, listing them all would be too much work.
Baptism into the name of the Organization!!
Charles taze russel - a 33rd degree freemason started religion,what do you expect from such a one, the truth?

Let me ask you a question - How can you be saved? Do they teach you that at your meetings?

asalimpo:

Catholocism is a whole can of worms on it's own.
Disguised and perfumed idolatory!!
That image has pagan origins.
Was peter the apostle to rome? NO!
But catholocism say so.
What is the rosary you people pray!!! - (Which command in the bible (NT) says to do so?)
The oath of celibacy is from where? That oath has caused more abortions ,in secret , than any other thing.
So much sx goes on in seminaries - it's an open secret.
Like the bible foretold - "foreboding to marry ... " (one of the last days false righteousness trends)
Why enjoin such unbiblical practices? Because you people go about trying to establish your own righteousness instead of resting in the finished work of Christ.

sorry, which image has pagan origin? an image is an image, no image is bad immoral or pagan by itself, it is what it is used for that determine if it is pagan. so you can't just look at an image and call it pagan..

according to historical sources and the writings of early Christians Peter was in Rome, he taught there and was killed there by the emperor Nero, do you have any historical sources that says otherwise, or should I disregard the witness of early Christians just because you don't like the Catholic Church..

as for the rosary, it is simply the recalling of Bible passages on the life of Jesus and a request to another Christian to add me in prayers

asalimpo:


The oath of celibacy is from where? That oath has caused more abortions ,in secret , than any other thing.
So much sx goes on in seminaries - it's an open secret.
Like the bible foretold - "foreboding to marry ... " (one of the last days false righteousness trends)
Why enjoin such unbiblical practices? Because you people go about trying to establish your own righteousness instead of resting in the finished work of Christ.

celibacy is from Jesus who was celibate and taught that some will be celibate for the sake of the kingdom of God in Matthew.

I don't know of anyone who had an abortion and I hope you aren't spreading gossip. those sins are condemned by the Church. do you blame your Church for the sins of her members.

celibacy is not unbiblical

asalimpo:

To introduce heresies and errors like the JWs do - you have to establish that the forebears were in error!!!
The early church founding fathers,under the leadership of the Holy Spirit,sealed the revelation of God with the book of revelation. And it is said that whoever adds to the word of God or takes away from it will have curses and judgement of God on Him. (REvelations 22 v 18).

What about confession of one's sins to another human being?
The making of a saint by the will of man (the utterances of the pope)! Blasphemy
You may defend the lie or allow the truth change you by conforming to it

the same early Church fathers clearly tell us that the book of wisdom is part of the Bible and you Protestants deleted it 500 years, so ask yourself about the curse of revelation. is it for Catholics who kept the Bible exactly as the early Church fathers put it or the Protestants who deleted some books.

confession of sins to another human being and specifically to the presbyter of the Church is biblical and found in James 5.

saint are not made by the will of man Saint are those living or and asleep in Christ, Paul was happy to even call living Christians saint to tell you that the Church of Christ is free to identify her members as who they are I.e saints.

I am conformed to the word of God on each of these issues, are you?

asalimpo:

Catholicism mixes truth with its lies-how else do you appear convincing.
What about the doctrine of purgatory?
Who is the medium to God?
Why do you chant "Holy mary mother of God pray for us sinners .... "
Who is the pope? Christ's vicar on earth?!
Dont get me started on catholocism bro - that's talk for another day.
Align your beliefs with the bible not man made adulterations.

purgatory? it means that those who built on Christ but built imperfectly will be saved on the day of judgement as though by fire after suffering loss... that is what is called purgatory. salvation for those who built imperfectly, it is biblical cf 1 cor 3:15.

my medium to God is Christ Jesus, no one comes to the father but through him.
.I chant that because I want a fellow Christian to pray with me and for me more so the mother of my Lord and God, since I always need prayers I generally enjoy asking fellow Christian who are always before God's throne.

the Pope is a servant of Christ, vicar of Christ simply means ambassador or representative, and the prime minister in his kingdom the Church.

feel free to get started on Catholicism, I am sure it is aligned to the truth.

asalimpo:

if Jireh is not God's name what is it?
As for your JW.org lies - incredulous lies, listing them all would be too much work.
Baptism into the name of the Organization!!
Charles taze russel - a 33rd degree freemason started religion,what do you expect from such a one, the truth?

Let me ask you a question - How can you be saved? Do they teach you that at your meetings?

Guy ,you are very deceitful & dishonest to yourself. In your own words "if jireh is not God's name, then what is it " God's word in Genesis 22:14 proves that U are a liar.

"The Grand Lodge of British Columbia & Yukon has said that Charles Taze Russell was NOT a Freemason" & even his extended family never had any ties to them.
.
"The symbols of the cross & crown are not exclusive to Masonry but pre-dates the fraternity"
Source: Charles Taze Russell (wikipedia.org ).
Guy,do U have any more lies in your kitty? Shameless SERIAL LIAR .

asalimpo:

what happened to the early church?
where is the church the early apostles were members of? where is the church in the Bible?

OneJ:

Guy ,you are very deceitful & dishonest to yourself. In your own words "if jireh is not God's name, then what is it " God's word in Genesis 22:14 proves that U are a liar.

"The Grand Lodge of British Columbia & Yukon has said that Charles Taze Russell was NOT a Freemason" & even his extended family never had any ties to them.
.
"The symbols of the cross & crown are not exclusive to Masonry but pre-dates the fraternity"
Source: Charles Taze Russell (wikipedia.org ).
Guy,do U have any more lies in your kitty? Shameless SERIAL LIAR .

Let's start with genesis 1 - what's God's name there?
Russel was never a freemason- it just happened that his grave stone had masonic symbols right?
It just happened that many sources claim he was a mason.
It also just happens that early watchtower publications were rife with masonic symbols?
As for God's name- it is so apparent that the watchtower re-wrote the bible to suit their theology,
chaning all and even non applicable names of God to the name they want.
I said Jehovah-Jireh is just another name of God. God has many names- if you cant understand that, your reasoning has problems.

The watchtower bible derived from a wescot and hort translation.
The wescot and hort duo were occultists and spiritists.
Are you going to deny that too? or the spiritists organization deny they were practitioners?
here is a quote about the man , Wescott:

" Westcott was an Alexandrian mystic and a necromancer. Any REPUTABLE scholarly work such as The Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics, Encyclopedia Britannica, etc, will verify this fact. Read any of Westcott's writings and you will come away with the confirmation that he was a prototype New Ager and as boring as watching a submarine race."


Here is a video on youtube talking more on these.
But before we get into this, why would Russel, use a secret society symbol if he had no association with the cult? The pyramid and the all seeing eye? (illuminati?) , the translation is the NEW WORLD ORDER TRANLSATION. Coincidence?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikUzTKBPYx4

I dont see what point you are trying to make with gen 22 v14: Abraham memorialized a place by giving God a name (yes, man gave God a name) . In order words Abraham, blessed the name of the Lord by giving Him a new name related to a function of God - provision.
Perfectly normal. Like i said, God has MANY names. MANY.
Invoking any of His many names is scriptural and perfectly okay.
Jehovah-rapha (my healer)
etc

Ubenedictus:


purgatory? it means that those who built on Christ but built imperfectly will be saved on the day of judgement as though by fire after suffering loss... that is what is called purgatory. salvation for those who built imperfectly, it is biblical cf 1 cor 3:15.

my medium to God is Christ Jesus, no one comes to the father but through him.
.I chant that because I want a fellow Christian to pray with me and for me more so the mother of my Lord and God, since I always need prayers I generally enjoy asking fellow Christian who are always before God's throne.

the Pope is a servant of Christ, vicar of Christ simply means ambassador or representative, and the prime minister in his kingdom the Church.

feel free to get started on Catholicism, I am sure it is aligned to the truth.

In other words, you can be saved after death. Death is not the end?
And with such a doctrine the opportunistic church can sell indulgences and profit from gullible religious victims.
What is built imperfectly? the bible says, if you walk in the light as he is in the light the blood of Jesus cleanses you from all sins (as you endeavour to walk in the light) - not after death.
the fire is the fire at the judgement seat of Christ not a fire in hades or somewhere else . Again, your sect twists the scriptures.
They are sincere catholics who really want to serve God. And some are truly born again- that i know.
The issue is the Roman catholic faith is polluted nd corrupted - infused with pagan philosophies and traditions.
Exposing these false sects is not a put down , but to those who love the truth,it is to help them out of darkness. Firstly, the bible is the only standard. Nothing that goes against it is valid.
With that purgatory is not biblically justified.
You need to only think to see this.
Those who are saved at the judgement seat of Christ - were already saved!!
They built on the foundation - Christ- so they were saved. But their works were of poor quality?
However, the bible talks of those who were once in christ (the branch) who will be cast out ( for not abiding)
and gathered and burned.
The purgatory doctrine teaches a salvation after death- very deceptive and unbiblical. Many will find out too late that they've been had.

Ubenedictus:
the same early Church fathers clearly tell us that the book of wisdom is part of the Bible and you Protestants deleted it 500 years, so ask yourself about the curse of revelation. is it for Catholics who kept the Bible exactly as the early Church fathers put it or the Protestants who deleted some books.

confession of sins to another human being and specifically to the presbyter of the Church is biblical and found in James 5.

saint are not made by the will of man Saint are those living or and asleep in Christ, Paul was happy to even call living Christians saint to tell you that the Church of Christ is free to identify her members as who they are I.e saints.

I am conformed to the word of God on each of these issues, are you?
No man has the power or authority to pardon sin, because man is just not qualified. Even saved man. Man still sins and stumbles making him unqualified to pardon. All sins are to be confessed to God.

First, if you are in christ (born again, blood washed) you are a SAINT.
It is not conferred to you by any man or any entity.
2) James 5 v 16 talks of confessing our sins to one another in the context of healing.
Not as a church tradition!!
The bible also says that we should rightly divide the word of truth!
In context and with other verses we see that confessing our sins can aid in healing!!
That verse is in the context of healing.
No other verse in the bible, supports taking our sins to man!
We have a great high priest in heaven.
What's Jesus blood for?
What cleanses from sins?
The catholic practice is pagan, anti christ and decietful.
! john 1 v 9 - if we confess our sins HE (Who? the catholic priest? No! Jesus! God! )
is faithful and just to forgive us - AND (in addition to forgiving (who can forgive sins anyway if not God)
) cleanse us (who can cleanse? Man? No! God! ) (what will he cleanse sin with? His blood?)
Confession of sin to man is unbiblical.
Notice that the verse in james doesnt say confessing your sin to one another will cleanse sins? but aid in the healing. I believe this sins have to do with interpersonal sins. sins against another.
Even then, the cleansing and pardon needs to be gotten from God (Jesus)

Ubenedictus:
sorry, which image has pagan origin? an image is an image, no image is bad immoral or pagan by itself, it is what it is used for that determine if it is pagan. so you can't just look at an image and call it pagan..

according to historical sources and the writings of early Christians Peter was in Rome, he taught there and was killed there by the emperor Nero, do you have any historical sources that says otherwise, or should I disregard the witness of early Christians just because you don't like the Catholic Church..

as for the rosary, it is simply the recalling of Bible passages on the life of Jesus and a request to another Christian to add me in prayers

On peter, the bible says - Paul was the apostle to the gentiles.
God never sent peter to rome as an apostle.
That's one lie the catholic church needs to build its foundation.
- The rosary is not biblical. the Holy spirit doesnt command its use. The new testament doesnt.
Therefore it's out.
the bible says little foxes spoil the vine. Little, seemingly harmless things (doctrines not of God),
corrupt and pervert the mind.
Recalling of bible passages and request of other christians to add me - listen to yourself think!
Do you need a bid to do that?
A little leaven (of lies) corrupts!
Dont be decieved.
Throw away your rosary and stop praying to dead so-called saints.
Go to God directly not thru any human agency.
Bids and statues are graven images.
God will give you the holy spirit and he will bring scripture to your rememberance - Jesus promised this.
That's the work of the Comforter. read up about Him.
They are people who know so much bible verses in memory, do they use bids?
How about people with prodigious memory in other fields like conductors,they can deal with full buses of passengers and not forget who they owe change,do they use bids?
Think!! Your memory is capable of storing so much information you just need to exercise it.

God bless you asalimpo continue the good works

asalimpo:
The watchtower bible derived from a wescot and hort translation.
The wescot and hort duo were occultists and spiritists.
Are you going to deny that too? or the spiritists organization deny they were practitioners?
here is a quote about the man , Wescott:

" Westcott was an Alexandrian mystic and a necromancer. Any REPUTABLE scholarly work such as The Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics, Encyclopedia Britannica, etc, will verify this fact. Read any of Westcott's writings and you will come away with the confirmation that he was a prototype New Ager and as boring as watching a submarine race."


Here is a video on youtube talking more on these.
But before we get into this, why would Russel, use a secret society symbol if he had no association with the cult? The pyramid and the all seeing eye? (illuminati?) , the translation is the NEW WORLD ORDER TRANLSATION. Coincidence?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikUzTKBPYx4

I dont see what point you are trying to make with gen 22 v14: Abraham memorialized a place by giving God a name (yes, man gave God a name) . In order words Abraham, blessed the name of the Lord by giving Him a new name related to a function of God - provision ...perfectly normal. Like i said, God has MANY names. MANY.
Invoking a7ny of His many names is scriptural and perfectly okay.
Jehovah-rapha (my healer)
etc

Asalimpo, why do u deceive yourself? Is English language too hard for U to understand? Genesis 22:14 says Abraham called that place Jehovah jireh.
Abraham NEVER gave God a name. Rather,he gave a place it's name. Don't get it twisted. Stop the fallacy !

asalimpo:
The watchtower bible derived from a wescot and hort translation.
The wescot and hort duo were occultists and spiritists.
Are you going to deny that too? or the spiritists organization deny they were practitioners?
here is a quote about the man , Wescott:

" Westcott was an Alexandrian mystic and a necromancer. Any REPUTABLE scholarly work such as The Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics, Encyclopedia Britannica, etc, will verify this fact. Read any of Westcott's writings and you will come away with the confirmation that he was a prototype New Ager and as boring as watching a submarine race."


Here is a video on youtube talking more on these.
But before we get into this, why would Russel, use a secret society symbol if he had no association with the cult? The pyramid and the all seeing eye? (illuminati?) , the translation is the NEW WORLD ORDER TRANLSATION. Coincidence?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikUzTKBPYx4

I dont see what point you are trying to make with gen 22 v14: Abraham memorialized a place by giving God a name (yes, man gave God a name) . In order words Abraham, blessed the name of the Lord by giving Him a new name related to a function of God - provision ...perfectly normal. Like i said, God has MANY names. MANY.
Invoking a7ny of His many names is scriptural and perfectly okay.
Jehovah-rapha (my healer)
etc

Asalimpo, why do u deceive yourself? Is English language too hard for U to understand? Genesis 22:14 says Abraham called that place Jehovah jireh.
Abraham NEVER gave God a name. Rather,he gave a place it's name. Don't get it twisted. Stop the fallacy !

asalimpo:
The watchtower bible derived from a wescot and hort translation.
The wescot and hort duo were occultists and spiritists.
Are you going to deny that too? or the spiritists organization deny they were practitioners?
here is a quote about the man , Wescott:

" Westcott was an Alexandrian mystic and a necromancer. Any REPUTABLE scholarly work such as The Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics, Encyclopedia Britannica, etc, will verify this fact. Read any of Westcott's writings and you will come away with the confirmation that he was a prototype New Ager and as boring as watching a submarine race."


Here is a video on youtube talking more on these.
But before we get into this, why would Russel, use a secret society symbol if he had no association with the cult? The pyramid and the all seeing eye? (illuminati?) , the translation is the NEW WORLD ORDER TRANLSATION. Coincidence?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikUzTKBPYx4

I dont see what point you are trying to make with gen 22 v14: Abraham memorialized a place by giving God a name (yes, man gave God a name) . In order words Abraham, blessed the name of the Lord by giving Him a new name related to a function of God - provision ...perfectly normal. Like i said, God has MANY names. MANY.
Invoking a7ny of His many names is scriptural and perfectly okay.
Jehovah-rapha (my healer)
etc

Asalimpo, why do u deceive yourself? Is English language too hard for U to understand? Genesis 22:14 says Abraham called that place Jehovah jireh.
Abraham NEVER gave God a name. Rather,he gave a place it's name. Don't get it twisted. Stop the fallacy !
When someone disagrees with U guys & expose your fallacy & falsehood, U quickly tag him a "cultist or a heretic". No be today eee start. Agents of Copy & paste falsehood.

OneJ:

Asalimpo, why do u deceive yourself? Is English language too hard for U to understand? Genesis 22:14 says Abraham called that place Jehovah jireh.
Abraham NEVER gave God a name. Rather,he gave a place it's name. Don't get it twisted. Stop the fallacy !
When someone disagrees with U guys & expose your fallacy & falsehood, U quickly tag him a "cultist or a heretic". No be today eee start. Agents of Copy & paste falsehood.

It is clear that you are simply arguing to make your point rather than let the Word convince you.
Let's look at your argument.
Abraham called a place Jehovah-jireh (or more rightly Yawheh-yireh).
True- that's what the bible said.
Word for word, that's what the bible said.
But is that what the bible meant!! (there's no need to get into error here. The bible says to rightly divide the word of God. )
case 1:
A place is called Jehovah-jireh.
A place is called "My God willl provide"
A place is called God!
A place (provided) not God!
When Abraham encountered a need or needed provision , he thought of Jehovah-Jireh, that special place that produces rams!
No his mind didnt go to God but to the Place!
God of the place watched Abraham give worship to a place, and said nothing, allowing that idea to be in the bible, knowing fully well that His faithful servant was going to decieve many by naming places (patches of land God).
- Sometimes a place can be called God or sometimes God can be worshipped with a new name.
either way it's all scriptural
- By the same token, after any encounter with God, in worship any object animate or otherwise can be
called God,with God fully watching and not correcting!
so Balam could have called his donkey God - the God who speak through animals
Moses could have called the red sea God - the God who fights and destroys his enemies
Hagar could have called the well of water God after she was delivered from dying of thirst
- the God who provides etc
- God shares his Glory with things
- Abraham committed idolatory (worshipping a place ( a patch of ground)) and blasphemy (using God's name in vain - he used it in the name of his new idol (the place))

case 2:
Abraham was moved by the miraculous act of God's provision and
gave God a new specific name - the Lord my provider or My God will provide
and marked that event by memorialising it at a place. Maybe he set up some stones or so as a marker.
Something eventful happened at that place.
- Abraham directed the name at God
- Abraham marked a place
- In future, when they wanted to cheer themselves to believe that God will provide
the isrealites, meditated on or invoked the name (Jehovah-Jireh) while thinking of God and not a place.
- God saw and heard abraham calling a place God but didnt correct because He knew abraham was
really saying that "a place provided for me" but rather "God provided for me at this place"
. God expects the reader to have enough discernment to understand the passage.

So which is which?
Please rightly divide the word.

asalimpo:

In other words, you can be saved after death. Death is not the end?
And with such a doctrine the opportunistic church can sell indulgences and profit from gullible religious victims.
What is built imperfectly? the bible says, if you walk in the light as he is in the light the blood of Jesus cleanses you from all sins (as you endeavour to walk in the light) - not after death.
the fire is the fire at the judgement seat of Christ not a fire in hades or somewhere else . Again, your sect twists the scriptures.
They are sincere catholics who really want to serve God. And some are truly born again- that i know.
The issue is the Roman catholic faith is polluted nd corrupted - infused with pagan philosophies and traditions.
Exposing these false sects is not a put down , but to those who love the truth,it is to help them out of darkness. Firstly, the bible is the only standard. Nothing that goes against it is valid.
With that purgatory is not biblically justified.
You need to only think to see this.
Those who are saved at the judgement seat of Christ - were already saved!!
They built on the foundation - Christ- so they were saved. But their works were of poor quality?
However, the bible talks of those who were once in christ (the branch) who will be cast out ( for not abiding)
and gathered and burned.
The purgatory doctrine teaches a salvation after death- very deceptive and unbiblical. Many will find out too late that they've been had.

purgatory does NOT teach of a salvation (justification) after death, those saved at the judgement seat of Christ were already Christians, already justified and already have Christ, the Bible says in 1 Corinthian 3 that they built on Christ, they only built imperfectly and thus will suffer loss as through fire before entering heaven.

this isn't an opportunistic teaching as you claim, this is clear biblical teaching, if a Christian builds imperfectly and appears before God's seat of judgement his work will be burnt, he too will suffer loss but he will be saved.... that is clear and biblical... the Catholic Church does not teach that the fire of hades is what will burn the person in fact the previous pope agrees with you that the fire is certainly that of Christ presence.


there is no pagan philosophy here, no lies here, this is plain biblical teaching, every saved believer who dies after walking with the Lord will face Jesus in judgement and if his works are imperfect he will be saved but will suffer loss as through fire.

that is clearly biblical teaching.

some were in the vine but got cut off, those ones are heading for hell.

if you wish to hate on the Catholic Church you are free, but this teaching is scripturally sound.

asalimpo:

First, if you are in christ (born again, blood washed) you are a SAINT.
It is not conferred to you by any man or any entity.
2) James 5 v 16 talks of confessing our sins to one another in the context of healing.
Not as a church tradition!!
The bible also says that we should rightly divide the word of truth!
In context and with other verses we see that confessing our sins can aid in healing!!
That verse is in the context of healing.
No other verse in the bible, supports taking our sins to man!
We have a great high priest in heaven.
What's Jesus blood for?
What cleanses from sins?
The catholic practice is pagan, anti christ and decietful.
! john 1 v 9 - if we confess our sins HE (Who? the catholic priest? No! Jesus! God! )
is faithful and just to forgive us - AND (in addition to forgiving (who can forgive sins anyway if not God)
) cleanse us (who can cleanse? Man? No! God! ) (what will he cleanse sin with? His blood?)
Confession of sin to man is unbiblical.
Notice that the verse in james doesnt say confessing your sin to one another will cleanse sins? but aid in the healing. I believe this sins have to do with interpersonal sins. sins against another.
Even then, the cleansing and pardon needs to be gotten from God (Jesus)

the Catholic Church does NOT claim to confer sainthood, she does recognise it, of course I am a saint now...only in the context we are talking about those the Church is recognising are those who have completed their earthly journey.



2. at least you have admitted that James clearly teaches that it is OK and biblical justified to confess you sins to another human being something you previously denied, now let's look at James.


Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray.
Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing praise.

Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the
elders of the church, and let them pray over him,
anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord.
And the prayer of faith will save the one who is
sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has
committed sins, he will be forgiven. Therefore,
confess your sins to one another and pray for one
another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a
righteous person has great power as it is working


first you are correct in one point that the context of this passage is healing... so if a Christian is ill hr should call the presbyter, he should be anointed with oil and prayed over,...James says 2 effects should follow, 1 healing, 2 forgiveness of sin.... but the entire passage was all about healing, how manage he is now talking about sins...he tell us how the presbyter is to know the sins he is praying about... he says " therefore confess to one another".

the the full picture, a man is sick, he calls the presbyter who anoints him with oil and prays, if the man has sinned he makes a confession and the prayer of the elder should be effective both for healing and for forgiveness.

so who do you think healed him? the elder? NO! the Bible says by his stripes we are healed, so it is Jesus that healed him not the elder, the elder was just an instrument.

the man confessed his sin was prayed for and James says he is forgiven, who forgave the sin? it Jesus, how? by his blood but the elder was the instrument.

so a Catholic presbyter does same he hears confession, he prays for forgiveness but it is Jesus that forgive the sins, it is his blood that washes and cleanse us but the instrument he uses is the elder.

this is biblical, right and OK...

the last objection you may have is that this can only happen during when someone his Ill, but that is incorrect because the power to pray over sins and declare it forgiven was given in John 20:23 and it says whatsoever sin you forgive are forgiven which means the apostles and elders they ordained can always use this authority wherever and whenever.

asalimpo:

First, if you are in christ (born again, blood washed) you are a SAINT.
It is not conferred to you by any man or any entity.
2) James 5 v 16 talks of confessing our sins to one another in the context of healing.
Not as a church tradition!!
The bible also says that we should rightly divide the word of truth!
In context and with other verses we see that confessing our sins can aid in healing!!
That verse is in the context of healing.
No other verse in the bible, supports taking our sins to man!
We have a great high priest in heaven.
What's Jesus blood for?
What cleanses from sins?
The catholic practice is pagan, anti christ and decietful.
! john 1 v 9 - if we confess our sins HE (Who? the catholic priest? No! Jesus! God! )
is faithful and just to forgive us - AND (in addition to forgiving (who can forgive sins anyway if not God)
) cleanse us (who can cleanse? Man? No! God! ) (what will he cleanse sin with? His blood?)
Confession of sin to man is unbiblical.
Notice that the verse in james doesnt say confessing your sin to one another will cleanse sins? but aid in the healing. I believe this sins have to do with interpersonal sins. sins against another.
Even then, the cleansing and pardon needs to be gotten from God (Jesus)

I see you totally jumped and dodged the issue of Protestants deleting books from the Bible, are you not aware that your Protestant Bible has some books deleted even though the Church fathers tell us they are part of the Christian bible

asalimpo:

On peter, the bible says - Paul was the apostle to the gentiles.
God never sent peter to rome as an apostle.
That's one lie the catholic church needs to build its foundation.
- The rosary is not biblical. the Holy spirit doesnt command its use. The new testament doesnt.
Therefore it's out.
the bible says little foxes spoil the vine. Little, seemingly harmless things (doctrines not of God),
corrupt and pervert the mind.
Recalling of bible passages and request of other christians to add me - listen to yourself think!
Do you need a bid to do that?
A little leaven (of lies) corrupts!
Dont be decieved.
Throw away your rosary and stop praying to dead so-called saints.
Go to God directly not thru any human agency.
Bids and statues are graven images.
God will give you the holy spirit and he will bring scripture to your rememberance - Jesus promised this.
That's the work of the Comforter. read up about Him.
They are people who know so much bible verses in memory, do they use bids?
How about people with prodigious memory in other fields like conductors,they can deal with full buses of passengers and not forget who they owe change,do they use bids?
Think!! Your memory is capable of storing so much information you just need to exercise it.

do you think apostle to the Jews means he will always remain in Israel? well that isn't correct. because the Bible tells us that it was this apostle who was the first to bring the gentile into the Church.


in fact Paul tell us in the book of Galatians that he actually saw the apostle Peter in Antioch, which means it was pretty OK for him to leave Israel and evangelise else where.

in fact the early Christian do tell was that Peter did stay in Antioch and later left it for Rome where he died, unless you are privy to all the instructions Jesus revealed to Peter then I suggest you stop assuming he was never sent to Rome, in fact the great commission was to go throughout the world and proclaim the Gospel. In this issue there is no lie, the historic witness of the early Christian is clear, Peter was in Rome and died there.


sorry it seems you are confusing the Rosary a prayer that is about meditating on the life if Jesus while repeating scriptures and a chaplet which is made of beads. I can pray the rosary without using beads -it seems you are antibeads

Ubenedictus:


the Catholic Church does NOT claim to confer sainthood, she does recognise it, of course I am a saint now...only in the context we are talking about those the Church is recognising are those who have completed their earthly journey.



2. at least you have admitted that James clearly teaches that it is OK and biblical justified to confess you sins to another human being something you previously denied, now let's look at James.


Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray.
Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing praise.

Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the
elders of the church, and let them pray over him,
anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord.
And the prayer of faith will save the one who is
sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has
committed sins, he will be forgiven. Therefore,
confess your sins to one another and pray for one
another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a
righteous person has great power as it is working


first you are correct in one point that the context of this passage is healing... so if a Christian is ill hr should call the presbyter, he should be anointed with oil and prayed over,...James says 2 effects should follow, 1 healing, 2 forgiveness of sin.... but the entire passage was all about healing, how manage he is now talking about sins...he tell us how the presbyter is to know the sins he is praying about... he says " therefore confess to one another".

the the full picture, a man is sick, he calls the presbyter who anoints him with oil and prays, if the man has sinned he makes a confession and the prayer of the elder should be effective both for healing and for forgiveness.

so who do you think healed him? the elder? NO! the Bible says by his stripes we are healed, so it is Jesus that healed him not the elder, the elder was just an instrument.

the man confessed his sin was prayed for and James says he is forgiven, who forgave the sin? it Jesus, how? by his blood but the elder was the instrument.

so a Catholic presbyter does same he hears confession, he prays for forgiveness but it is Jesus that forgive the sins, it is his blood that washes and cleanse us but the instrument he uses is the elder.

this is biblical, right and OK...

the last objection you may have is that this can only happen during when someone his Ill, but that is incorrect because the power to pray over sins and declare it forgiven was given in John 20:23 and it says whatsoever sin you forgive are forgiven which means the apostles and elders they ordained can always use this authority wherever and whenever.

You are on point to an extent but error begins when a doctrine is built of a few verses or when they are taken out of context.
The bible therefore enjoins that the christian must STUDY and that verses must be balanced with other verses (i.e in the mouth of two or three witnesses ).
Common sense and real life experience also factor in-but only in so far as they are scriptural.
First there is a subtle twist in that scripture to justify the man made intermediary.
The verse says, is any one sick call for the elders of the church ...
then it goes on to say confess your sins one to another (this isnt the elders!)
the "another" can be another christian. it could be the elders also. But it is not restricted to them NEITHER does that verse allude to the elders in anyway.
2) in regards to healing, the anointing with oil is not a doctrine- i could go into more detail here but
it would be distracting.
The anointing with oil is just one method a sick christian can apply for healing.
They are many other methods.
Like going to the doctor-(requires smallest faith possible- )
praying all by yourself- (requires greatest faith possible)
praying with some one else in agreement-
it has to do with one's level of faith inter alia.

...
And the prayer of faith will [b]save the one who is
sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has
committed sins, he will be forgiven. Therefore,
confess your sins to one another and pray for one
another, that you may be healed
[/b]
That verse mentions CONFESSION of sins in relation to healing and no other passage of scripture-post Christs resurrection (i.e when the new testament came into effect) - commands that man confess sin to another man to be forgiven.
That verse is an exception, and we see it in relation to healing.
So i believe, that interpersonal sins (relational sins) or unconfessed sins of any kind, can prevent healing from occuring.
Infact, in the greater scale of things, sins block prayer.
That verse doesnt constitute a tradition.


Therefore,
confess your sins to one another (why?) and pray for one
another,(also do this) that (so that this may result) you may be healed (the end result)
That verse applies to healing.
It doesnt become generalized.
There is no other scripture backing up that.

Another reason why i see that verse may apply is that , the elder may pray, nothing happens, and he is wondering why no result?
There is sin on the sick persons part? The sick person then has to let it out- then the prayer may have effect. In this case, they are more than one people present and praying for the sick to be healed.

2) Notice that it is the prayer of faith that saves the sick!
It's all faith.
The coming of the elders and the anointing with oil are just conduits to quicken or spur up the afflicted faith.
If not done in faith, it will fail.
Because it is the prayer of faith that actually saves,the sick can get himself healed if his faith is high enough.

John 20 v 23:
In that verse Jesus says to his disciples when he appears to them,
"If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained.".

Yes this verse clearly says, that the disciples (to whom Jesus was talking to - and by extension all christians it seems)
have to power to hold a person's sins against him and prevent forgiveness.

But this flies in the verse of other scriptures.
1 john 2 v 1:

My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.


If anyone DOES SIN, he can go directly to Jesus and RECEIVE FORGIVENESS.
Instantly.
Nobody can withhold your sins from being forgiven.
And you can do so immediately without any intermediary.

how? by coming directly to God.

Hebrew 4 v 16:
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.


The new testament wouldnt be so much better than the old covenant if man had to go through another human intermediary to God!!
The bible says we have a far better covenant.
And one of the amazing things of this new covenant is that - every believer- can come DIRECTLY TO GOD.
2) Every believer is a priest . So we dont need to to go thru another priest (human)
But we are under a chief High Priest (Jesus).
In relating with God, Everything is through Jesus - no human intermediary.

In the new testament the believer is:
A priest,
a king
a Child/Son - 1 john 4 v 4

Now if you are a son, you can come to your father anytime.
You can walk into your father's parlour anytime and hang with your Father!
You wont be scared of Him!
You are his Child- you have his dna. You have His spirit.
You dont need an intermediary.
A servant doesnt have this priviledge.
That's why the New covenant is so much more superior to the old. in the Old,the isrealites were not children but servants. They couldnt call God "Father"(Matthew 6 v 6) or Daddy!! (Romans 8 v 16).
They didnt have a personal relationship with God-it was distant.
They stood afar off and a human high priest,who had to be extra careful had to mediate for them,if he had any sin,he died while mediating!!
God was distant fearful and terrible to them.
Hence, in the new covenant, the saint is enjoined to COME boldly to the throne room of God!

No human agency required.