nopuqeater:

@Kgdavid: if your following the prophesies from the Bible does not allow your heart to know that the Palestinians are not the only "arabs" and een then the palestinians have the right of self governance, freedom to be secured in their forefather's land, feed themselves instead of receiving handouts from the Un and other relief agencies and Israel a nation that wishes them destruction, then I cant help you.

a child had the right to change his name and be called what he wants to be known by. but the new name of that child, be it the first name or the surname is in no way the name of the father or the grandfather or the greatgandfather, etc, especially when that was what any of the ascendant was known as before.

a good example here is that the father of the hausas cant be called "Arewa", or the father of Igbos cant be called "Biafra" or the father of the yorubas (if it was Oduduwa) cant be called yoruba, for none of the names these groups are now known by was not in usage in the time(s) of their individual group father.

but Kgdavid, how do you explain the 1 billion demons versus 6 millions that davidylan stated? Muslims world over today is slated 1.5 billions, a 50% increase on the 1 billion that davidylan wrote. the palestinians are not 1 billion or are they? you think like davidylan or at least you have very similar agenda, so you can explain away or ask him to defend his hollow statement. if 1.5 billion people were to fight israel and her supporters, do you think the sheer humanity will not overwhelm them, jsut as russian's did against germany in the fast wasteland of russian winter?

if Biblical prophesies are always fulfilled, there should be no wealth within the arabs. Yet many of the world's wealth can be found in arabia. Hadith of the prothet (as) is more in true fulfillment, since what he authentically said can be seen, today; divisions among muslims, more muslims but with less faith and the arabs are competing among one another as groups or nations to build tall buidings.

it is written in te bible that ishmael's descendants (arabs) would be a great nation who would dwell among their brothers and who would be at war with all men, fulfiled? u tell me


so 5000 years ago they were called israelites/hebrews and today they are called jews and so? does that mean that the people of israel do not have a legitimate right to claim their land? because of a dubious name change? i guess that means iraqis and jordanians can stroll into iran and drive the iranians out because 5000 years ago there were no "iranians" living there?

^^^^What the creation of Isreal did is similar to Yorubas going back Egppt or East as history claimed that they were from there and told the present dwellers to move away to nowhere, do you think that would happen without resistance?

Remii:

^^^^What the creation of Isreal did is similar to Yorubas going back Egppt or East as history claimed that they were from there and told the present dwellers to move away to nowhere, do you think that would happen without resistance?

Hey Remii , my bro long time.

Join the lovely debate, lol.

Remii:

^^^^What the creation of Isreal did is similar to Yorubas going back Egppt or East as history claimed that they were from there and told the present dwellers to move away to nowhere, do you think that would happen without resistance?

Excellent comment! This is what many fail to realize when they talk about Israel giving back lands they seized in 1967 as if they are doing anyone a favor.

frosbel:

Hey Remii , my bro long time.

Join the lovely debate, lol.

You see what gross stupidity, sycophancy and hypocrisy can do to a human being? Or, is it that your brain could not interpret correctly the poster's message?

Remii:

^^^^What the creation of Isreal did is similar to Yorubas going back Egypt or East as history claimed that they were from there and told the present dwellers to move away to nowhere, do you think that would happen without resistance?

the jews dispersed widely in the 19th century but they there was still a remnant of them in Palestine. they were never really absent from that land and the land never legally belong to the palestinians, it was taken from israel by romans, from romans by turks from the turks by the brittish and the brittish partitioned it between the jews and the arabs. the example of the yorubas going back to egypt draws absolutely no parrallel in this case. one, the israelis never completely left israel, two they have not asked the palestinians to move to nowhere. the correct analogy would be to say if igbo people started migrating from nigeria individually and stayed in the diaspora for a while when they want to come back will the hausa's claim that igbos as a race do not have a place in nigeria?

Afam:

Excellent comment! This is what many fail to realize when they talk about Israel giving back lands they seized in 1967 as if they are doing anyone a favor.

You see what gross stupidity, sycophancy and hypocrisy can do to a human being? Or, is it that your brain could not interpret correctly the poster's message?

let your bitterness not kill you, jealousy , lol.

frosbel:

let your bitterness not kill you, jealousy , lol.

Address the issue raised by the poster and stop diverting attention away from the main issues. Olodo

@Kgdavid: « #64 on: Yesterday at 08:53:32 PM »  

it is written in te bible that ishmael's descendants (arabs) would be a great nation

Is it the nation of Islam (religious order)? The answer will be that the bible failed in its prediction, because we now have Arabs who are Christians, Atheists, etc, knowing fully well that not all arabs are muslims, and not all muslims are arabs. Or is it the Arabs (an ethnicity)? We see that there are many nations from the single ethnicity, each knowing themselves by facial structures, distinct dialect that is understand by the people in a specific nation, and the common language among all the nation is accent specific to each nation. The Saudi accent is different from Jordanian's, etc. there are many nations here. Not just one, with a singular passport, accent, dialect, characteristics.

who would dwell among their brothers

Who are the brothers of the arabs? You tell me from what your Bible says, knowing fully well where the arabs dwell, from africa to the minor africa (asia minor)? I do not know which brothers they dwell among. Maybe you will be telling us that the Israelites/Jews are now their brothers who they dwell among. By the way dwelling among means living among. Please correct me if the arabs are scattered among anyone else.

and who would be at war with all men, fulfiled? u tell me

Unfulfilled! My proof: Asiatic people numbers to almost half or more of the world's population. Africans, specifically the black africa numbers well into 10%. People of the americas take some 20%. Tell me which one of them is the Children of Biblical Ischmael (the arabs) is at war with? All men means everyone. Up to this day, there has never been a war between India or China, etc the children of Ischmael. Up to this time, there is never a time that USA is not in love with Saudi Arabia. Please justify your statement. To make it and dont defend it is not showing good understanding.

Why your bible is written by Jews, it is no surprise that they lied and belittled their grandfather Jacob's Uncle; Ismael. Since you cant proof that what the Bible says about Ishmael ever came true, you transfer the lies to his bloodline. That is not true either, from my argument above. We will now examine what the Bible written by Jews says about Isaac and his bloodline. Isaac had at least 2 sons. The evil Jews buried one of their own; Esau the brother of Jacob and all the descendants of Esau. Maybe you need to tell us why or who are the descendands of Esau, if the Jews didnt wipe them off from history?

Now we will talk about Jacob and his bloodline, the jews. We see that jacob was always deceitful and there was no truth coming out of his mouth. His children were no better. They were killers of their own blood, joseph who they intended killing except that God Almighty kept him for a higher purpose that brought even his father to prostrate his face to him. Now, the bible did not say that the israelites will be at war against anyone. But we see that their being enslaved was actually a form of war. You tell me if i am wrong, because no one enslaves their best friend, ally. From the other side of the sea during exodus all the way to now, Jews/israelite/Children of Jacob, grandchildren of Isaac have always at war with 1 or more people with just a short time of peace. Today, we see that in the land that they annexed via terrorism from the people of palestine, muslims and christians of them, the Jews are now the one who have their hands on the palestinians. The israelites are now the oppressors, intend on ethnic cleansing. They will not be satisfied if there is a single palestinians on palestine. They are even making sure that the palestinians do not have peace, not together as a people, except that they are divided into West bank and Gaza strip, insist on starving the people of gaza. Tell me if divide and conquer (to conquer) is not strategy of war? Who is oppressing who? Is your Bible still correct in its prediction of the Jews as you will like to call them?

so 5000 years ago they were called israelites/hebrews and today they are called jews and so? does that mean that the people of israel do not have a legitimate right to claim their land?

I will simply respond to your claimed legitimate right. When a covenant was made with Ibrahim (AS), Isiaqa was not born then. The seal of the covenant was the circumcision. Ismail the only son was the one alive to make the father/son rite, along with other males in the household. The essence or meaning of the convenant with Ibrahim was that he will be a leader of true faith (not faiths) for mankind, and leadership of true faith (again not faiths for truth cant be more than one) will always come from his bloodline. We cant say that Ismail grew up to be pagan because he had his father in his life, until the father died, whose burial/funeral Ismail (as) partocipated in. Jacob and others knew Ismail.

We will now return to Jacob named Israel (as). Any covenant established with him could not be greater and different from what was established with his grandfather and personal Friend of God, Ibrahim (as). What was established with Ibrahim was that those who follow his religion of worshipping the Creator shall have possession of specific land. But those who are disbelievers shall not but will be punished like every disbeliever. The central part of the possession is jarusalem. Today we have masjid Aqsa and others in that city. The worshippers in that masjid worship God Almighty alone, with human, angelic, prophetic, leadership, personal, imagined association(s). The Israelites never won a battle in their Biblical history except it is a group of idolators. From the defeat of Egypt and her rxodus, to establishing a kingdom ruled by kings, all the way to Solomon (as), she never defeated a believer, except that she fought disbelievers/idolators. It is their disbeliefs that brought them into diaspora of many centuries. Allah then establshed the religion of Ibrahim anew in the lives of still, the bloodline of Ibrahim (as). If the jews failed by turning away from the commandment of God by establishing Judaism and later establishing Christianity making God to be now died and waking up from dead human, is it now God's Ability if the day of Judgement is not here, yet that true religion is risen up, from another bloodline of Ibrahum? Does God not have that Right? The problem with people is that they second guess the Creator, while they can 100% all the time know what the next man standing beside them is thinking in his heart.
By the way, the poster who used the history of "Yoruba" migration to answer the "assumed" everlasting ownership of Jews of the land og palestine is quite adequate. It is the best so far. Similar to American whites going back to the Old countries and saying to the people, I come back to claim our piece of land from you cousins. You have no right to it because our father lived with grandpa while your father didnt. So get lost.

because of a dubious name change?

No really.

i guess that means iraqis and jordanians can stroll into iran and drive the iranians out because 5000 years ago there were no "iranians" living there?

Persia, which is what iran is, is in the same nature as Afghanistan. The word Iran is Aryan which is same nature that white supremacist Hitler made his 3rd Reich symbol. From the below, we see that Iraq, and or Jordan or any Arab did not inhabit Iran while the persian Iranians were somewhere else 5000 years ago. Infact they were zoroast pagan non Arabs when islam of Muhammad (AS) was established and thriving in Madina. How you got your own Iraq and or Jordan extending over Iran is something you must explain, just like you must explain your lack of truth and unfulfillment of the biblical predictions, above.
www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Iran - Cached - Similar Median and Achaemenian Empires

Biblical figure Cyrus the Great was the founder of the Persian Empire
The Achaemenian Empire (648–330 B.C.E.) at its greatest extentThe written history of (Iran) began in about 3200 B.C.E. with the Proto-Iranian civilization, followed by the Elamites. The Aryans (Indo-Iranians) arrived in the third and second millennium B.C.E. The Median dynasty (728–550 B.C.E.) is credited with founding Iran as a nation and empire, the largest of its day, until Cyrus the Great established a unified empire of the Medes and Persians leading to the Achaemenian Empire (648–330 B.C.E.).

Cyrus the Great created the Cyrus Cylinder, considered the first declaration of human rights. He was the first king whose name was suffixed with the word "great" and the first shah of Iran. Cyrus banned slavery in all conquered areas that became the Persian Empire. Cyrus' seminal ideas greatly influenced later human civilizations; Cyrus' principles of ruling—advocating love rather than fear—influenced the original U.S. Constitution

Lets for the sake of argument agree that Iraq and Jordan used to own Iran. Now tell me, after many centuries that the Semites of Iraq and Jordan left, and Aryan Persian Iran was living on that land, is it possible that Iraq and Jordan can come back to claim their long time abandoned land and expect not a struggle from those who have been living there for dozens of centuries?

^^^


[img]http://alice.loria.fr/publications/papers/2006/EGSR_Ardeco/supplemental/images/yawn.png[/img]

nopuqeater:

@Kgdavid: « #64 on: Yesterday at 08:53:32 PM »  Is it the nation of Islam (religious order)? The answer will be that the bible failed in its prediction, because we now have Arabs who are Christians, Atheists, etc, knowing fully well that not all arabs are muslims, and not all muslims are arabs. Or is it the Arabs (an ethnicity)? We see that there are many nations from the single ethnicity, each knowing themselves by facial structures, distinct dialect that is understand by the people in a specific nation, and the common language among all the nation is accent specific to each nation. The Saudi accent is different from Jordanian's, etc. there are many nations here. Not just one, with a singular passport, accent, dialect, characteristics.

Who are the brothers of the arabs? You tell me from what your Bible says, knowing fully well where the arabs dwell, from africa to the minor africa (asia minor)? I do not know which brothers they dwell among. Maybe you will be telling us that the Israelites/Jews are now their brothers who they dwell among. By the way dwelling among means living among. Please correct me if the arabs are scattered among anyone else.

Unfulfilled! My proof: Asiatic people numbers to almost half or more of the world's population. Africans, specifically the black africa numbers well into 10%. People of the americas take some 20%. Tell me which one of them is the Children of Biblical Ischmael (the arabs) is at war with? All men means everyone. Up to this day, there has never been a war between India or China, etc the children of Ischmael. Up to this time, there is never a time that USA is not in love with Saudi Arabia. Please justify your statement. To make it and dont defend it is not showing good understanding.

Why your bible is written by Jews, it is no surprise that they lied and belittled their grandfather Jacob's Uncle; Ismael. Since you cant proof that what the Bible says about Ishmael ever came true, you transfer the lies to his bloodline. That is not true either, from my argument above. We will now examine what the Bible written by Jews says about Isaac and his bloodline. Isaac had at least 2 sons. The evil Jews buried one of their own; Esau the brother of Jacob and all the descendants of Esau. Maybe you need to tell us why or who are the descendands of Esau, if the Jews didnt wipe them off from history?

Now we will talk about Jacob and his bloodline, the jews. We see that jacob was always deceitful and there was no truth coming out of his mouth. His children were no better. They were killers of their own blood, joseph who they intended killing except that God Almighty kept him for a higher purpose that brought even his father to prostrate his face to him. Now, the bible did not say that the israelites will be at war against anyone. But we see that their being enslaved was actually a form of war. You tell me if i am wrong, because no one enslaves their best friend, ally. From the other side of the sea during exodus all the way to now, Jews/israelite/Children of Jacob, grandchildren of Isaac have always at war with 1 or more people with just a short time of peace. Today, we see that in the land that they annexed via terrorism from the people of palestine, muslims and christians of them, the Jews are now the one who have their hands on the palestinians. The israelites are now the oppressors, intend on ethnic cleansing. They will not be satisfied if there is a single palestinians on palestine. They are even making sure that the palestinians do not have peace, not together as a people, except that they are divided into West bank and Gaza strip, insist on starving the people of gaza. Tell me if divide and conquer (to conquer) is not strategy of war? Who is oppressing who? Is your Bible still correct in its prediction of the Jews as you will like to call them?


I will simply respond to your claimed legitimate right. When a covenant was made with Ibrahim (AS), Isiaqa was not born then. The seal of the covenant was the circumcision. Ismail the only son was the one alive to make the father/son rite, along with other males in the household. The essence or meaning of the convenant with Ibrahim was that he will be a leader of true faith (not faiths) for mankind, and leadership of true faith (again not faiths for truth cant be more than one) will always come from his bloodline. We cant say that Ismail grew up to be pagan because he had his father in his life, until the father died, whose burial/funeral Ismail (as) partocipated in. Jacob and others knew Ismail.

We will now return to Jacob named Israel (as). Any covenant established with him could not be greater and different from what was established with his grandfather and personal Friend of God, Ibrahim (as). What was established with Ibrahim was that those who follow his religion of worshipping the Creator shall have possession of specific land. But those who are disbelievers shall not but will be punished like every disbeliever. The central part of the possession is jarusalem. Today we have masjid Aqsa and others in that city. The worshippers in that masjid worship God Almighty alone, with human, angelic, prophetic, leadership, personal, imagined association(s). The Israelites never won a battle in their Biblical history except it is a group of idolators. From the defeat of Egypt and her rxodus, to establishing a kingdom ruled by kings, all the way to Solomon (as), she never defeated a believer, except that she fought disbelievers/idolators. It is their disbeliefs that brought them into diaspora of many centuries. Allah then establshed the religion of Ibrahim anew in the lives of still, the bloodline of Ibrahim (as). If the jews failed by turning away from the commandment of God by establishing Judaism and later establishing Christianity making God to be now died and waking up from dead human, is it now God's Ability if the day of Judgement is not here, yet that true religion is risen up, from another bloodline of Ibrahum? Does God not have that Right? The problem with people is that they second guess the Creator, while they can 100% all the time know what the next man standing beside them is thinking in his heart.
By the way, the poster who used the history of "Yoruba" migration to answer the "assumed" everlasting ownership of Jews of the land og palestine is quite adequate. It is the best so far. Similar to American whites going back to the Old countries and saying to the people, I come back to claim our piece of land from you cousins. You have no right to it because our father lived with grandpa while your father didnt. So get lost.

No really.

Persia, which is what iran is, is in the same nature as Afghanistan. The word Iran is Aryan which is same nature that white supremacist Hitler made his 3rd Reich symbol. From the below, we see that Iraq, and or Jordan or any Arab did not inhabit Iran while the persian Iranians were somewhere else 5000 years ago. Infact they were zoroast pagan non Arabs when islam of Muhammad (AS) was established and thriving in Madina. How you got your own Iraq and or Jordan extending over Iran is something you must explain, just like you must explain your lack of truth and unfulfillment of the biblical predictions, above.
www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Iran - Cached - Similar Median and Achaemenian Empires

Biblical figure Cyrus the Great was the founder of the Persian Empire
The Achaemenian Empire (648–330 B.C.E.) at its greatest extentThe written history of (Iran) began in about 3200 B.C.E. with the Proto-Iranian civilization, followed by the Elamites. The Aryans (Indo-Iranians) arrived in the third and second millennium B.C.E. The Median dynasty (728–550 B.C.E.) is credited with founding Iran as a nation and empire, the largest of its day, until Cyrus the Great established a unified empire of the Medes and Persians leading to the Achaemenian Empire (648–330 B.C.E.).

Cyrus the Great created the Cyrus Cylinder, considered the first declaration of human rights. He was the first king whose name was suffixed with the word "great" and the first shah of Iran. Cyrus banned slavery in all conquered areas that became the Persian Empire. Cyrus' seminal ideas greatly influenced later human civilizations; Cyrus' principles of ruling—advocating love rather than fear—influenced the original U.S. Constitution

Lets for the sake of argument agree that Iraq and Jordan used to own Iran. Now tell me, after many centuries that the Semites of Iraq and Jordan left, and Aryan Persian Iran was living on that land, is it possible that Iraq and Jordan can come back to claim their long time abandoned land and expect not a struggle from those who have been living there for dozens of centuries?

i hope you know that writing ten thousand words in one post does not mean that you are making sense? your post is filled with so much nonsense that i cannot possibly sit down to reply it all, so im just gonna say, yes the arabs and israelis can be considered brothers and yes they do dwell together(the use of the word among is insignificant) and yes the arab race have been at war with all men (figuratively). the fact is that the members of arab countries have been engaged in conflict with virtually all other races. you obviously do not understand the history of israel very well

@kgdavid

Kgdavid:

i hope you know that ---your----- post does not mean that you are making sense? your post is filled with so much nonsense -----

---- and a lot of semitic bigotry. it reeks of APARTHEID, racism and ---

Kgdavid:
so much nonsense -----

AIRDIG:

@kgdavid---- and a lot of semitic bigotry. it reeks of APARTHEID, racism and ---

Talking of apartheid and racism, not even Israelis can defend themselves of that. No other country in the world is formed based on race, any Jew any where in the world is a citizen of Israel, he may never set his forefathers may never have set foot on the land, no other national can get citizenship, marriage between an Israeli and non Jew is invalid, there is no halfcast Jew one can go on.

^^

And thats why I love the Jews.

A divinely preserved people for a future purpose and blessing !

^^^ u want mr Bitterness to attack i believe we both know whom i am talking about

be so goo

AIRDIG:

@kgdavid---- and a lot of semitic bigotry. it reeks of APARTHEID, racism and ---

would you be so good as to point out where in my post you used your skills in analysis to pick out those themes?

Remii:

Talking of apartheid and racism, not even Israelis can defend themselves of that. No other country in the world is formed based on race, any Jew any where in the world is a citizen of Israel, he may never set his forefathers may never have set foot on the land, [size=16pt]no other national can get citizenship, marriage between an Israeli and non Jew is invalid[/size], there is no halfcast Jew one can go on.

Why do we get bogged down essentially with brainless dolts all the time? Is this guy aware that there are BLACK (of African descent), Arab and caucasians with Israeli citizenship?

Is he also aware that arabs marry Israelis?

anyway it takes one brainless dolt to know another, lol

The Arab or non Jew Israelis are those living in the territory before 1948, they are essentially those who participated in the 1952 census. Permanent  residency is possible but not citizenship, while any willing Jews all over the world can return by provision of Law of return.

Yes, an Israeli like any individual can marry anyone his or her heart desires but the marriage is invalid under Jewish law, if the marriage is not recognised what happens to the product of the union. However, Israelis activists are still fighting those laws till today.

@Kgdavid: « #73 on: Today at 12:49:10 PM »  

i hope you know that writing ten thousand words in one post does not mean that you are making sense?

A conflict of thousand of years, according to your Bible is reasoned out by a few lines from you, while mine is a half page. I wonder if your Bible follows your thinking, would it not have just been a few pages long, tops, from Adam to Jesus or Paul? Take your pick.

your post is filled with so much nonsense that i cannot possibly sit down to reply it all, so im just gonna say, yes the arabs and israelis can be considered brothers and yes they do dwell together(the use of the word among is insignificant)

So now you consider the arabs and Israelis brothers, yet you will deny that when Biblical God said to Moses that a prophet of God wil be raised to them among their Bretherens/brothers, your good sense (while mine is nonsense) could not reason to include Muhammad (AS) from the Arabs as a possible fulfillment of it? Okare. Good brain you have there. In your dubious understanding, when the Jews established a nation and later nations, there is no proof that Arabs dwelled in either Israel, or Judea and Israel combo, because the Jews made sure that they remain a pure race, and the arabs at that time were pagans. So tell me when the arabs dwelled among the Jews if you know. Maybe you meant when the dispersed jews were dwelling among the arab nations or maybe the muslim nations that did not kill them offf in porgroms, or inquisitions, or crusades or Crystanoid? The christians did all the killings, and at time because they wanted to kill the muslims. It is the Jews that dweled among the arabs, and not the other way round. Your bible failed, again.

and yes the arab race have been at war with all men (figuratively).

Figuratively, this is false and nonsensical. You do not tell the truth since the Jews are even more warmongering. Yet you consider the Jews peace loving. How dishonest in speech.

the fact is that the members of arab countries have been engaged in conflict with virtually all other races. you obviously do not understand the history of israel very well

The obvious misunderstanding is from you. Lets start from Isaac or Jacob or the 12 sons of Jacob, or whoever you wish of the "Jews" as you will call them, even Jesus. You will see that there is no peace between them and among other people. It is either that they are discriminating against others, lionizing themselves to fighting and mass killing of innocent tribes and nations, to the hands of others upon them as a class of evil people, as they are known even from the mouth of Jesus. The arabs on the other hand were at best ignored by the rest of the world, living in dark ages, having conflicts among themselves at best, until Islam of Muhammmad (AS) which brought enlightenment to them and the rest of the world. You benefit in this Islamic enlightenment through your european masters. duuh. The muslims, indeed the arabs did not fight anyone except for two reason, the major one is upholding truth and against any and all oppression. oppressors. Religious reason is not a major reason, which is why Jews and Christians flourished under muslims. The below will enlighten you that Jews do not learn that a strong man today can be weak man, tomorrow. The fight in Palestine is not an arab fight but for a palestinian nationalistic struggle. if the arabs are fighting, Saudi, Jordan, Kuwait, etc will not be standing by. The Jews cant fight everyone at the same time! Human history tells me that.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article25658.htm
                                                                     A Strange Echo From History
                                                                                 By Adam Curtis

June 08, 2010 "BBC" -- Here is a strange echo from history. It is a documentary made by the BBC in 1973 about the story of the ship, the Exodus.
It was the ship full of Jewish refugees - many of them survivors of the Holocaust - that tried to break the British blockade of Palestine in 1947. The participants from both sides appear and describe in detail how British soldiers boarded the ship 21 miles off the coast of Palestine killing 3 of the refugees and wounding others.

[flash=600,600]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYnt6wlP04k&hl=en[/flash]