Daviddson:
In other words, a former born again Christian who went back to sin of robbery and murder will still go to heaven when he dies??

that is what he is saying

alBHAGDADI:
@Daviddson @nigerianonym @marttol


If you sincerely want to know the truth about how you can never lose your salvation no matter what you do, I beg you to please read this sermon by Pastor Steven Anderson below

It is very lengthy, but if you can read it to the end, you will really see the good news the exact same way the disciples of Jesus preached it.

I beg you, please read. You will be glad I showed it to you.

Link below.

http://www.faithfulwordbaptist.org/once_saved_always_saved.html


Excerpts

Now I want to prove this to you from the bible in many different scriptures that we can never lose our salvation and not only that i’m going to turn to some of the scriptures that people will try to use to say that you can lose you it and show why that just doesn’t hold water.

revelation21 v 8 says

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.


Which Bible are you reading??

nwamabo247:
here is it am not a scammer am living wiht pains

snap yr today pictures with dates n yr Nairaland moniker across yr chest

nigerianonym:


The write-up you posted is truly long and in all honesty, I'm not going to read it.
But I'll say again that there's no such thing as eternal salvation. I'll quote a few scriptures to back it up.

But first, let it be noted that before you even profess faith in Christ, you must first repent of your sins. Sadly, nominal Christians don't know that. So people live in perpetual sin and profess the name of Christ.
Even Jesus said in

Mark 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Luke 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Luke 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.



Paul in the book of Hebrews summarised the foundational teachings of Christ, the first being repentance from dead works, which is sin.
Hebrews 6:1-2 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

To come to Christ, one had to first confess, repent and forsake all his sins.


Judas was saved. He was among the 70 that went out to preach. And Christ said their names were written in Heaven.
Luke 10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.

The same Judas who's name, together with the other 69 was written in Heaven, became the son of perdition, whose soul became lost.

Now, there are many other Bible references that point out that a saved person can lose their salvation. Eg.
Jude 1:5-12 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.[/b]
[b]And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.
Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.
Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.
These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

Note the bolded from the book of Jude. Twice dead, means they were once dead in sin, they got saved and died again. They lost their salvation.

Read the book of first John, you will realise that if you claim to be of Christ, but walk contrary to His commands, you're not of Christ.

If you're bearing fruits of unrighteousness, you're not Christ's. You'd be like the Pharisees who John the Baptist called vipers and told them to bear fruits meet for repentance, though they came to be baptised of John.

Salvation is a gift, yes. But it comes with a command. The command to be holy.

Holy" means "set apart", as in set aside for a particular purpose, and implies being "special" and acting accordingly. In particular it means "set aside for God's service". Holiness is a command. Holiness is what we strive for and is gradually improved in us by the sanctification of the Holy Spirit. This is not something imputed to us, but something which we are commanded to become: be holy, for I am holy.

"Righteous" means "made right" (justified), or "being right", not in the sense of "correct", but as in "not wrong" - being pure, honest, sinless. Perhaps a better way of putting it would be "not guilty" or "blameless". Righteousness is a gift.

The two should go hand in hand

You have succeeded in quoting scriptures upon scriptures in a totally wrong manner. This shows you are not saved at all. That's why I begged you to read the link, yet you refused.

Now, those verses about repentance, Did any of them speak of being the way to eternal life? Why are you now basing them as the way to eternal life?

Secondly, you quoted the below verses.

Hebrews 6:1-2 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

You couldn't even see that Paul was condemning belief in WORKS. Repentance from sin is not what saves you but faith in God which is believe in Jesus. The DEAD WORKS Paul spoke of include those things which you say one must do so as to not lose his salvation, which are not fornicating, not lying, not committing sin etc. Those are works of righteousness, but can't make you worthy to enter heaven. It only means you are depending on yourself to save yourself, which means you don't believe in Jesus to save you. Do you know why those works can't save you? Because the Bible said our righteousness are like filthy rags before God. You are depending on filthy rags to save you. That means if you get to the judgement day and you are asked why you should be allowed into heaven, you will start to say because you did good works which are filthy rags. You should have read that link I gave you to understand how dangerous it is to depend on works.


You even used Judas as an example. You went ahead to quote a verse fraudulently or ignorantly to say his name was written in heaven, yet he lost his salvation.

Judas was not among the 70 whom Jesus sent out to preach and told them upon returning that their names were written in heaven. Judas was among the 12 disciples whom Jesus first sent out. But as for the 70, non of the 12 disciples which include Judas were among them. If you read that chapter from the beginning, you will see that it was an OTHER set of people i.e 70 people Jesus sent out, which are different from the 12 which Judas belong.

Luke 10 King James Version (KJV)
After these things the LORD appointed OTHER seventy ALSO, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come.

Now that you see your mistake, let me show you that despite Judas walking with Jesus, he was never saved at all. First of all read the verse below.

John 6:40

And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and BELIEVETH ON HIM, MAY HAVE EVERLASTING lifYe: and I will raise him up at the last day.

The verse says whoever believes in Jesus will have everlasting life. Same thing can be found in John 3:16 which I believe you can recite.

Now, did Judas believe in Jesus? No he didn't, likewise some of his other disciples. I hope you know it wasn't all the 12 he had, he also had many which include the 70 he sent out to preach.

In John 6, many of his disciples left him when he told them that they were to eat his flesh and drink his blood for them to have eternal life. Read below.

John 6:66

From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

They never believed in him despite walking with him. If they had believed, they won't have left. After those ones left, Jesus turned and asked why the 12 didn't leave as well.

John 6:66-71

From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?

Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.


Did you see Peter's response and how it corresponds with John 6:40 and also John 3:16 which I quoted above?

Now, Judas Iscariot did not leave when many of the disciples left. This doesn't mean it's because he believed in Jesus. Jesus even know right from when he called the 12 disciples that Judas was an unbeliever and had a devil. He never believed in Jesus though he walked with him. Jesus also knows knew that all those that left never believed in him right from when they started following him. He knew they would betray him.

John 6:64

But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

Can you now see that Judas was never saved? He was never saved because he never believed in Jesus right from day one.


As for your reference to Israel being saved from Egypt, did any bible verse ever tell you that it was eternal salvation they got when God saved them from Egypt?

Plz, just spend time reading that link I gave you. It won't cost you anything but make you gain.

Forget about how long it is. Please just read it.

engrelvis:
snap yr today pictures with dates n yr Nairaland moniker across yr chest

the picture was teken 2day i am useing small tecno t605 it doesnt show pictures dates.plz i no undestand d meaing of nairaland moniker

alBHAGDADI:
@Daviddson @nigerianonym @marttol


If you sincerely want to know the truth about how you can never lose your salvation no matter what you do, I beg you to please read this sermon by Pastor Steven Anderson below

It is very lengthy, but if you can read it to the end, you will really see the good news the exact same way the disciples of Jesus preached it.

I beg you, please read. You will be glad I showed it to you.

Link below.

http://www.faithfulwordbaptist.org/once_saved_always_saved.html


Excerpts

Now I want to prove this to you from the bible in many different scriptures that we can never lose our salvation and not only that i’m going to turn to some of the scriptures that people will try to use to say that you can lose you it and show why that just doesn’t hold water.

im not reading it... I'm reading my bible

alBHAGDADI:


You have succeeded in quoting scriptures upon scriptures in a totally wrong manner. This shows you are not saved at all. That's why I begged you to read the link, yet you refused.

Now, those verses about repentance, Did any of them speak of being the way to eternal life? Why are you now basing them as the way to eternal life?

Secondly, you quoted the below verses.

Hebrews 6:1-2 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

You couldn't even see that Paul was condemning belief in WORKS. Repentance from sin is not what saves you but faith in God which is believe in Jesus. The DEAD WORKS Paul spoke of include those things which you say one must do so as to not lose his salvation, which are not fornicating, not lying, not committing sin etc. Those are works of righteousness, but can't make you worthy to enter heaven. It only means you are depending on yourself to save yourself, which means you don't believe in Jesus to save you. Do you know why those works can't save you? Because the Bible said our righteousness are like filthy rags before God. You are depending on filthy rags to save you. That means if you get to the judgement day and you are asked why you should be allowed into heaven, you will start to say because you did good works which are filthy rags. You should have read that link I gave you to understand how dangerous it is to depend on works.


You even used Judas as an example. You went ahead to quote a verse fraudulently or ignorantly to say his name was written in heaven, yet he lost his salvation.

Judas was not among the 70 whom Jesus sent out to preach and told them upon returning that their names were written in heaven. Judas was among the 12 disciples whom Jesus first sent out. But as for the 70, non of the 12 disciples which include Judas were among them. If you read that chapter from the beginning, you will see that it was an OTHER set of people i.e 70 people Jesus sent out, which are different from the 12 which Judas belong.

Luke 10 King James Version (KJV)
After these things the LORD appointed OTHER seventy ALSO, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come.

Now that you see your mistake, let me show you that despite Judas walking with Jesus, he was never saved at all. First of all read the verse below.

John 6:40

And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and BELIEVETH ON HIM, MAY HAVE EVERLASTING lifYe: and I will raise him up at the last day.

The verse says whoever believes in Jesus will have everlasting life. Same thing can be found in John 3:16 which I believe you can recite.

Now, did Judas believe in Jesus? No he didn't, likewise some of his other disciples. I hope you know it wasn't all the 12 he had, he also had many which include the 70 he sent out to preach.

In John 6, many of his disciples left him when he told them that they were to eat his flesh and drink his blood for them to have eternal life. Read below.

John 6:66

From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

They never believed in him despite walking with him. If they had believed, they won't have left. After those ones left, Jesus turned and asked why the 12 didn't leave as well.

John 6:66-71

From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?

Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.


Did you see Peter's response and how it corresponds with John 6:40 and also John 3:16 which I quoted above?

Now, Judas Iscariot did not leave when many of the disciples left. This doesn't mean it's because he believed in Jesus. Jesus even know right from when he called the 12 disciples that Judas was an unbeliever and had a devil. He never believed in Jesus though he walked with him. Jesus also knows knew that all those that left never believed in him right from when they started following him. He knew they would betray him.

John 6:64

But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

Can you now see that Judas was never saved? He was never saved because he never believed in Jesus right from day one.


As for your reference to Israel being saved from Egypt, did any bible verse ever tell you that it was eternal salvation they got when God saved them from Egypt?

Plz, just spend time reading that link I gave you. It won't cost you anything but make you gain.

Forget about how long it is. Please just read it.

contiin sin sir, after death you will know the answer...

marttol:
revelation21 v 8 says

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.


Which Bible are you reading??

And it is the blood of Jesus that atone for your sins in heaven. It is that blood that wipes off your sins and enables you enter heaven. because you believed in him.

marttol:
contiin sin sir, after death you will know the answer...

I just busted you for your wrong understanding of the Bible, yet you still believe I'm the one who's wrong on this doctrine of salvation?

alBHAGDADI:


And it is the blood of Jesus that atone for your sins in heaven. It is that blood that wipes off your sins and enables you enter heaven. because you believed in him.

I will believe you... If you show me the Bible verse that says we would make heaven if we continue in sin...

marttol:
im not reading it... I'm reading my bible

The same bible you quoted wrongly a while ago?

Now I know truly that no one comes to the father except God draws him.

I've done my best. Goodbye

alBHAGDADI:
The same bible you quoted wrongly a while ago?

Now I know truly that no one comes to the father except God draws him.

I've done my best. Goodbye

bye you too... ��� ���

Interesting15:

By Sunday Akanni Moshood

Sex and all of it pleasures remain an astonishing matter to humans. Even an ancient wise king (Solomon, the son of David) couldn't fully comprehend how a full-grown honourable man would allow sexual pleasures strip him of his dignity just to lay with an unpleasant-looking maid (Proverbs 30:19)

The pleasures that stems from sexual-related activities is undoubtedly unique. Either one is engaging in the actual intercourse, or one is gazing at a picture or video of two persons having sex, or one is even playing with his/her sexual organs in a secret place, the fact remains that the pleasures derived from these activities can rarely be obtained from other sources - not even from food and sleep.

And so, humans loves sex so much - since sex helps achieve something the human flesh craves for: soothing pleasure.

But we must realize that humans are not the only set of beings that loves sex - but even satan (the evil devil) loves sex too. How can satan - a spiritual being - loves sex? Is the devil also indulging himself in direct sexual intercourse?

Of course, being a spiritual being, it is impossible that the devil indulge himself in direct sexual intercourse. Then, what makes him loves sex? It is simply because, sex is a big tool that keeps helping the devil achieve his evil aims and intentions, from generation to generation.

The ALMIGHTY GOD JEHOVAH created Lucifer (who would later become satan, the devil) to be a dynamic archangel in the heavenly realms. The devil used to be a beautiful creature who stands before the Throne of the Living God, created and filled with sonorous musical components, as well as all manner of precious stones.

He (satan) unfortunately allowed pride to come in, and he was punished severely by God. He was demoted from his position in heaven. And ultimately, it was made known that after a period of time, satan and his cohorts will be damned forever in a lake burning with eternal fire (Revelations 20:10)

How does this concern we humans? As long as this world remains, one universal thruth that won't be changed is the fact that a person will reap what he/she sows. The soul that sins shall die (Ezekiel 18:20). The devil knows that the set time for his ultimate punishment in the lake of fire is almost here, and he's also aware that humans who failed to do God's biddings will partake in the eternal torment. And being an evil creature, the devil keeps working hard to influence humans into committing sin against God.

How does this concern sex? The devil, aware of how much the human flesh prioritise sexual pleasures, had made sex a sure tool to make humans sin against God.

The bottomline is this. A human commits a sin when he/she moved contrary to the will of God (and such a person is at risk/danger of perishing in hell if he/she failed to repent)

Additionally, a human being commits sexual sins if he/she goes contrary to the will of God in regards to sex and sexuality. The will of God for sex is that all form of sexual pleasures should be shared between a married man and his female wife inside their marriage union, with no other party involved.

Satan loves sexual activities that disobeys and are contrary to the will of God for sex. Premarital sex, extra-marital sex, masturbation, pornography acting and viewing, sexting - all makes satan happy. Such illicit sexual activities makes satan excited (he loves them) not because he derives direct bodily pleasure from the acts, but because they help achieve his aim: drawing a lot of humans to hell fire before the end of the ages. Don't forget the Bible says in John 10:10 that the devil comes to "steal, to kill, and to destroy".

Should I tell you the kind of sex satan hates? It is the sex between a married man and his wife inside the safe confines of their marriage institution.

If you still engage in premarital/extramarital sex, or you still masturbate or view pornography, stop it now! Stop making satan happy with your sexual lifestyle, and stop pushing your soul nearer to the gates of hell.

Pray to God for forgiveness and approach His Throne through the Name of His Son JESUS CHRIST.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1790620541049203&id=100003038222908&ref=bookmarks

Satan Devil Lucifer is a figment of ur imagination.

nigerianonym:


My quote was in reference to the fact that God loved him. God loves everyone, and He loves even more when they abide. I wasn't making reference to the numerous concubines. That's another issue in it's entirety.

OK sir. All good...

nwamabo247:
the picture was teken 2day i am useing small tecno t605 it doesnt show pictures dates.plz i no undestand d meaing of nairaland moniker

l rest my case

When did devil start liking sex, and when did sex start exiting? Is it before Yahweh created eve or after, did the devil know what sex was before Adam was created?

Buhari zombie, you are sighted.

Daviddson:
Can you imagine! This is another MrPresident1 no doubt. They are very zealous for the work of God and but they deny His way. They can open endless threads to "fight for God", but they deny very basic biblical principles. What a deception.

Interesting15:

By Sunday Akanni Moshood

Sex and all of it pleasures remain an astonishing matter to humans. Even an ancient wise king (Solomon, the son of David) couldn't fully comprehend how a full-grown honourable man would allow sexual pleasures strip him of his dignity just to lay with an unpleasant-looking maid (Proverbs 30:19)

The pleasures that stems from sexual-related activities is undoubtedly unique. Either one is engaging in the actual intercourse, or one is gazing at a picture or video of two persons having sex, or one is even playing with his/her sexual organs in a secret place, the fact remains that the pleasures derived from these activities can rarely be obtained from other sources - not even from food and sleep.

And so, humans loves sex so much - since sex helps achieve something the human flesh craves for: soothing pleasure.

But we must realize that humans are not the only set of beings that loves sex - but even satan (the evil devil) loves sex too. How can satan - a spiritual being - loves sex? Is the devil also indulging himself in direct sexual intercourse?

Of course, being a spiritual being, it is impossible that the devil indulge himself in direct sexual intercourse. Then, what makes him loves sex? It is simply because, sex is a big tool that keeps helping the devil achieve his evil aims and intentions, from generation to generation.

The ALMIGHTY GOD JEHOVAH created Lucifer (who would later become satan, the devil) to be a dynamic archangel in the heavenly realms. The devil used to be a beautiful creature who stands before the Throne of the Living God, created and filled with sonorous musical components, as well as all manner of precious stones.

He (satan) unfortunately allowed pride to come in, and he was punished severely by God. He was demoted from his position in heaven. And ultimately, it was made known that after a period of time, satan and his cohorts will be damned forever in a lake burning with eternal fire (Revelations 20:10)

How does this concern we humans? As long as this world remains, one universal thruth that won't be changed is the fact that a person will reap what he/she sows. The soul that sins shall die (Ezekiel 18:20). The devil knows that the set time for his ultimate punishment in the lake of fire is almost here, and he's also aware that humans who failed to do God's biddings will partake in the eternal torment. And being an evil creature, the devil keeps working hard to influence humans into committing sin against God.

How does this concern sex? The devil, aware of how much the human flesh prioritise sexual pleasures, had made sex a sure tool to make humans sin against God.

The bottomline is this. A human commits a sin when he/she moved contrary to the will of God (and such a person is at risk/danger of perishing in hell if he/she failed to repent)

Additionally, a human being commits sexual sins if he/she goes contrary to the will of God in regards to sex and sexuality. The will of God for sex is that all form of sexual pleasures should be shared between a married man and his female wife inside their marriage union, with no other party involved.

Satan loves sexual activities that disobeys and are contrary to the will of God for sex. Premarital sex, extra-marital sex, masturbation, pornography acting and viewing, sexting - all makes satan happy. Such illicit sexual activities makes satan excited (he loves them) not because he derives direct bodily pleasure from the acts, but because they help achieve his aim: drawing a lot of humans to hell fire before the end of the ages. Don't forget the Bible says in John 10:10 that the devil comes to "steal, to kill, and to destroy".

Should I tell you the kind of sex satan hates? It is the sex between a married man and his wife inside the safe confines of their marriage institution.

If you still engage in premarital/extramarital sex, or you still masturbate or view pornography, stop it now! Stop making satan happy with your sexual lifestyle, and stop pushing your soul nearer to the gates of hell.

Pray to God for forgiveness and approach His Throne through the Name of His Son JESUS CHRIST.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1790620541049203&id=100003038222908&ref=bookmarks

God bless you. well written..

It is written that no man will see God without holiness and righteousness.
It is already written that fornicators adulterer etc will not see heaven. God clearly knew such heresies would come up hence the reason why he said "not everyone who calls him Lord will enter heaven".

You are preaching a different gospel from the one Christ preached. God would never lower his standards and accept sin, never. He has made the ultimate sacrifice, his son. Anyone who accepts Christs and still goes back to sin will suffer eternal damnation. Stop being a heretic. There is no repentance in the grave.

alBHAGDADI:
All have sinned and fallen...

We are all sinners. Show me one man who isn't without a sin, and I will show you some of his sins.

Once you die, it is the blood of Jesus that atone for your sins in heaven. Your righteousness cannot save you. The Bible even said your righteousness are as filthy rags before God. So if you are counting on it to save you, the. why did Jesus die?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not encouraging sin. But to say sin damns an already saved person to hell, that is actually heretic.

Interesting15:
lalasticlala, OAM4J

Happy Sunday

You can also download this book from amazon for more insight

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00LMKHHYO

Lol ok so let me get this. You are profiting from creating false doctrines about sex? You clearly have not read the Bible. If you had you would not say all the rubbish you're saying. Nor would you be profiting from it

D1official:

The way to destruction is really broad.
It takes absolutely nothing to fail, it only takes something to succeed.
Am more concerned that you a lady, and with this kind of comment I can only say u have bn sent to doom men.
May God forgive u.

So wait you are saying Solomon didn't have many wives then or concubines and was blessed and loved by God?

What about this 2 Samuel 12:8 "I gave your master's house to you, and your master's wives into your arms. I gave you all Israel and Judah. And if all this had been too little, I would have given you even more".

Or is that a lie now? Honestly you so called Christians are peddling Roman religion masquerading as Christianity. By the way when Jesus was talking about broad roads he was talking about religious leaders and prophets of which you are one. You can curse and bluster all you like but you're the false prophet bacause you do NOT teach the whole truth of the Bible not to mention Christian teachings. We are ONLY following the Christianity of the murderers, those that killed all other sects, burned people at the stakes, ripped off women's breasts, threw young girls in the river bound to see if they would float as that would confirm them as witches, they mutilated people's anuses with their torture devices, sawed people in half from the genitals to their heads all in the name of Jesus Christ. Their descendants are the ones preaching this false Christianity