Shelumiel: It seems you do not agree with Paul. So here is my advice : tear that part of your bible since it is sounds harsh to your own understanding.
My comment is rather rushed right now but without going into your developed arguments, I wish to say that there is a bigger issue here:
It is indeed true that the Bible does not allow that women should teach men but it goes further: men who do not possess the gift of teaching are not allowed by the Bible to teach anybody either.
Even further is this, men who possess the gift of teaching but who are still spiritual neophytes, that is, immature in the Faith, ought not to teach either.
Do you see how large the problem we have today is? Women teachers are just a fraction of the issue. In my experience, you would be one of a very small minority if you attend a church where the male pastor is both gifted as a teacher and properly prepared to do the work of teaching.
Christians always try to wriggle out of the inconsistencies and contradictions of their Bible. The other day one was trying to confuse himself about the omniscience of God and free will. The OP of this thread can wriggle all he wants but he can't get away from the commandments of Saul/Paul who actually was the founder of Christianity. You may like to watch this video that quotes passages in the Bible that show that Christianity has a total lack of regard for women and is a sexist book.
I laugh when I heard you say paul founded Christianity. Really, is that what they've filled your ears with. Funny indeed. I think you should go back to the bible for proper understanding and knowledge of it because from the look of things you sound like someone that lacks basic knowledge of the Bible and Christianity.
You wanna know more about the Bible and Christianity, you read the Bible itself and not go to YouTube because the Vloggers will only tell you what they think about the Bible and not what the Bible actually means, stand for and portray.
And NO, the Bible is not a Sexist book. So many misinterpretation, misquote and misunderstanding of the Bible flying around of late. You see, I'm gonna create a thread on the Bible and gender equality or sexism where I am gonna explain in details how the Bible is not a sexist book but rather a book that supports gender equality. So till then.
#Xavier.
The Bible was written by unsophisticated patriarchal men, it is clear and evident. Hand waving away all the shortcomings in the book just shows how prepared you are to defend bullshit.
I laugh when I heard you say paul founded Christianity. Really, is that what they've filled your ears with. Funny indeed. I think you should go back to the bible for proper understanding and knowledge of it because from the look of things you sound like someone that lacks basic knowledge of the Bible and Christianity.
You wanna know more about the Bible and Christianity, you read the Bible itself and not go to YouTube because the Vloggers will only tell you what they think about the Bible and not what the Bible actually means, stand for and portray.
And NO, the Bible is not a Sexist book. So many misinterpretation, misquote and misunderstanding of the Bible flying around of late. You see, I'm gonna create a thread on the Bible and gender equality or sexism where I am gonna explain in details how the Bible is not a sexist book but rather a book that supports gender equality. So till then.
#Xavier.
Interesting. I await your thread before I will reply you. Please give me a mention when you open this thread. By the way please no endless rambling. Straight to the point. Back your thread with quotations from your Bible. I am gonna enjoy this.
Your view about the Bible won't change it from what it is okay, GOD'S INSPIRED WORD.
I'm not handwaving any shortcomings of the Bible but I'm clearing the misunderstanding and misinterpretation that some people have about the Bible which you don't want to come in terms with.
By the way a thread on the Bible being GOD'S inspired word or a religious literature will soon be created by me. In that thread, I will explain in details and with facts how and why the Bible is GOD'S inspired word and not a religious literature. So till then.
#Xavier.
LoL. Okay open the thread let's show you just how uninspired the book is.
Meanwhile you cleared nothing, you just made assertions without demonstrating them to be true in anyway.
Xavier5: The issue of Female pastors in Christendom is something that is of concern and delicate with different opinions about it. As Christians, The Bible is our constitution (permit me to use that word) and as such every Thing is says is right and must/should be practised and obeyed by us. As a Christian, I have never seen and I'm yet to see where the Bible says that women shouldn't preach, teach in the church or pastor a church. The only passage that kind of hint at that is in 1 Timothy 2:11-13 which says;
"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer [tolerate] not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve."
What the above passage is saying is that just like in the family, the man is the head of the church and the woman should be in submission to him or them. A woman shouldn't try to exercise authority over the man or try to contend for authority with him. That doesn't mean that women shouldn't preach or teach in the church or pastor a church.
When JESUS gave the great commission in Matthew 28:19-20;
" Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen."
HE wasn't only referring to HIS disciples but to Christians in general (which women are a part of). So the commandment to preach, teach and indoctrinate where also commanded to the women as well. But what the Bible in my first quoted passage is saying is that women should be submissive to the man or men in the church because they are the head. Woman shouldn't compete for leadership positions with them except given to them. Let's take a look at what the bible in 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 says;
"Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak but they are to be submissive to, as the law also says. And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for a woman to speak in the church."
Now take a look at the above Bible passage, we see the Bible saying that women should be quiet and shouldn't speak in church, does that mean that the right of speech or expression of one's thought as a woman in the church is denied? if YES, That means all Christians (most especially women) have sinned because women speak in church both in the biblical times and now. But of course, the answer is NO, because that passage isn't saying that, rather it saying that women should give respect and be submissive to the man or men as the head of the Church even as CHRIST is the head of the man and overall head of the church.
The issue of female pastors wasn't mentioned in the Bible to tell whether it is right or wrong, but what the Bible says is that the women should be in submission to the man or men and respect them as the head of the church. They shouldn't compete for leadership positions or contend for authority with the men in the church but that doesn't mean she can't be a teacher, preacher, pastor or hold a key leadership position in the church but that can only be done if;
1.) The church (which includes the men) decides to give that position to her after seeing that she has what it takes to be there or hold such position. 2.) If she is called and ordained by GOD to do it. GOD knows no gender. 3.) If the men aren't doing their jobs as the head of the Church then the women who are ready and capable can step in and do it taking over as the head of the Church.
Besides there were lots of women in the Bible that held key or leadership positions both in the Church and outside the Church. They were also female teachers and preachers in the bible e.g Miriam, Priscilla, Deborah, Anna etc
Does it mean because JESUS choosed men to be HIS 12 disciples means that only men are ordained to be pastors?
#Xavier.
God can decide to call a woman to pastor a church if there are no men capable or willing to carry out the assignment .
I think a woman who should go for such assignment , in my opinion :
Must have gotten consent of the husband . Must not be a nursing mother . Must not neglect or deligate her responsibilities at home as a wife . Must be filled with Holy Spirit. Must be matured in age. Can be a widow who has dedicated her life totally to the work of God.
That is what I think , but God knows it all and why women are now becoming Pastors and church leaders contrary to the scriptures.
God can decide to call a woman to pastor a church if there are no men capable or willing to carry out the assignment .
I think a woman who should go for such assignment , in my opinion :
Must have gotten consent of the husband . Must not be a nursing mother . Must not neglect or deligate her responsibilities at home as a wife . Must be filled with Holy Spirit. Must be matured in age. Can be a widow who has dedicated her life totally to the work of God.
That is what I think , but God knows it all and why women are now becoming Pastors and church leaders contrary to the scriptures.
God honors His Word above His Name. That means that it is impossible for the Lord to violate His Own Word. He said through Paul that women should not hold authority over men because Eve was deceived and not Adam. That does not mean that a woman cannot reach fellow women. But it is only men to whom God gives the gift of teaching the Church. That has not changed.
God honors His Word above His Name. That means that it is impossible for the Lord to violate His Own Word. He said through Paul that women should not hold authority over men because Eve was deceived and not Adam. That does not mean that a woman cannot reach fellow women. But it is only men to whom God gives the gift of teaching the Church. That has not changed.
Yes , God honors His words , but at times , God can decide not to honor some of His words depending on the situations .
For examples :
GOD WORD WAS THAT HEZEKIAH SHALL DIE , BUT GOD DECIDED NOT TO HONOR THAT WORD .
Isaiah 38:1-5 KJV In those days was Hezekiah sick unto death. And Isaiah the prophet the son of Amoz came unto him, and said unto him, Thus saith the Lord , Set thine house in order: for thou shalt die, and not live. [2] Then Hezekiah turned his face toward the wall, and prayed unto the Lord , [3] And said, Remember now, O Lord , I beseech thee, how I have walked before thee in truth and with a perfect heart, and have done that which is good in thy sight. And Hezekiah wept sore. [4] Then came the word of the Lord to Isaiah, saying, [5] Go, and say to Hezekiah, Thus saith the Lord , the God of David thy father, I have heard thy prayer, I have seen thy tears: behold, I will add unto thy days fifteen years.
DEBORAH WAS A JUDGE AND A RULER OVER MEN IN ISRAEL AND GOD WAS WITH HER :
DEBORAH Judges 4:4 KJV And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time.
WHAT ABOUT A WIDOW WHO SERVED THE LORD IN THE SYNAGOGUE :
Luke 2:36-38 KJV And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity; [37] And she was a widow of about fourscore and four years, which departed not from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day. [38] And she coming in that instant gave thanks likewise unto the Lord, and spake of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem.
God can decide to use anyone as long as the person is cable and able. Based on this , most men are more capable are available , which makes the scriptures correct and intact.
Yes , God honors His words , but at times , God can decide not to honor some of His words depending on the situations .
For examples :
GOD WORD WAS THAT HEZEKIAH SHALL DIE , BUT GOD DECIDED NOT TO HONOR THAT WORD .
Isaiah 38:1-5 KJV In those days was Hezekiah sick unto death. And Isaiah the prophet the son of Amoz came unto him, and said unto him, Thus saith the Lord , Set thine house in order: for thou shalt die, and not live. [2] Then Hezekiah turned his face toward the wall, and prayed unto the Lord , [3] And said, Remember now, O Lord , I beseech thee, how I have walked before thee in truth and with a perfect heart, and have done that which is good in thy sight. And Hezekiah wept sore. [4] Then came the word of the Lord to Isaiah, saying, [5] Go, and say to Hezekiah, Thus saith the Lord , the God of David thy father, I have heard thy prayer, I have seen thy tears: behold, I will add unto thy days fifteen years.
DEBORAH WAS A JUDGE AND A RULER OVER MEN IN ISRAEL AND GOD WAS WITH HER :
DEBORAH Judges 4:4 KJV L Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time.
WHAT ABOUT A WIDOW WHO SERVED THE LORD IN THE SYNAGOGUE :
Luke 2:36-38 KJV And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity; [37] And she was a widow of about fourscore and four years, which departed not from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day. [38] And she coming in that instant gave thanks likewise unto the Lord, and spake of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem.
God can decide to use anyone as long as the person is cable and able. Based on this , most men are more capable are available , which makes the scriptures correct and intact.
This argument is very unfortunate. The only safety that a believer has in this world is the confidence that he can trust the stability of the Bible. To doubt the Bible or create any sort of reason to is to cut the ground off from under your own feet.
God has a right to change a judgment or decree that He has made. He Himself said to Ezekiel that if He pronounced calamity against a nation or against a person for their wickedness and that nation or person repents, He would reverse it. This is a completely different situation than the command that God gave to Paul concerning the Church.
Now, even if we were to admit your argument in this regard, there is the question: where did God change His Word in the Bible regarding this? Of course He never did. So it is an assumption on your part on the basis of what you see around you that you assume that God has changed His Command in this regard.
As for Deborah and Anna, the situation under the Mosaic Law was different than the situation under the New Covenant. The Calling out of the Gentiles into the Church of God is a different situation than when God dealt with Israel alone as His People.
