bloodofthelamb:
What is true about God is also true about Jesus Christ. They are both of the same nature and form(John1:1).

I believe the Father is only greater than the Son just in role or rank.
What do you guys think?

bloodofthelamb:
What is true about God is also true about Jesus Christ. They are both of the same nature and form(John1:1).

I believe the Father is only greater than the Son just in role or rank.
What do you guys think?

Anas09:
You are talking about the same entity. What you call Father is the Essence or the Substance which filled and indwelled a material vessel, human whom we call Jesus.

Jehovah the Essence/Substance/Spirit is higher/Heavenly, what we know and call the son is a body prepared for a single purpose (death), and it's a lil lower than the Angels who are lower than the Father.

So, what made it seemed like the Father was greater than son was the human nature. The human nature became the son, while the divine nature was right inside the son was the father. But you couldn't separate the Father from the son just like, you can't separate a man's soul from his body. The entity called Jesus is the Father/ Substance/Holy Spirit which dwelled in a human body called Jesus. In Him all Fullness dwelled. Father-son-spirit. they are not three, but one.

Big mystery only for the initiates.

jiggaz:
You are correct... Jesus is God the father manifested in the human form... The Trinity is really a mystery which we will fully understand when we get to heaven.

Zoharariel:
I've always been fascinated by the story of King Solomon.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Zjjg7mmDN4

bloodofthelamb:
What is true about God is also true about Jesus Christ.
They are both of the same nature and form
(John 1:1)

bloodofthelamb:
I believe the Father is only greater than the Son just in role or rank.
What do you guys think?

MuttleyLaff, solite, Jiggaz, Pressplay, Ichuka,

Anas09:
You are talking about the same entity. What you call Father is the Essence or the Substance which filled and indwelled a material vessel, human whom we call Jesus.

Jehovah the Essence/Substance/Spirit is higher/Heavenly, what we know and call the son is a body prepared for a single purpose (death), and it's a lil lower than the Angels who are lower than the Father.

So, what made it seemed like the Father was greater than son was the human nature. The human nature became the son, while the divine nature was right inside the son was the father. But you couldn't separate the Father from the son just like, you can't separate a man's soul from his body. The entity called Jesus is the Father/ Substance/Holy Spirit which dwelled in a human body called Jesus. In Him all Fullness dwelled. Father-son-spirit. they are not three, but one.

Big mystery only for the initiates.

bloodofthelamb:


MuttleyLaff, solite, Jiggaz, Pressplay, Ichuka,

Anas09:
You are talking about the same entity. What you call Father is the Essence or the Substance which filled and indwelled a material vessel, human whom we call Jesus.

Jehovah the Essence/Substance/Spirit is higher/Heavenly, what we know and call the son is a body prepared for a single purpose (death), and it's a lil lower than the Angels who are lower than the Father.

So, what made it seemed like the Father was greater than son was the human nature. The human nature became the son, while the divine nature was right inside the son was the father. But you couldn't separate the Father from the son just like, you can't separate a man's soul from his body. The entity called Jesus is the Father/ Substance/Holy Spirit which dwelled in a human body called Jesus. In Him all Fullness dwelled. Father-son-spirit. they are not three, but one.

Big mystery only for the initiates.

Originakalokalo:


Jesus, being in the flesh, said that he doesn't know the hour that judgement will start...

That is less of being omniscient, but the Bible refer to Jesus as THE EVERLASTING FATHER.

Do we now say that the everlasting father is not omniscient?. No. God forbid.

it simply means that God in the human form is limited... Hence the Father which is unseen is greater than his own physical form.

Aside from this, they are the same in nature, strength, power and purpose.


Don't forget that Jesus RESSURECTED WITH THE BODY.....
I want to believe that his physical body was transformed as he ascended... still,

He exists in the body... The Father does not exist bodily.

Jesus is God in the physical form... God almighty is unseen.

I and my Father... more like THE TWO OF US.... ARE ONE.

They exist in different forms... one is unseen, while the other is the physical version of the other...

When man tries to understand the nature of God, we explain it based on our physical form.
.
This method in itself is an error.

it's like an attempt to explain the nature of God with human perspective..


Revelation 4 Vs 5 mentioned THE SEVEN SPIRITS OF GOD.

while revelation 3 Vs 1 refer to Jesus as having the whole seven spirits of God.

Imagine? the spirit is pluralised.

and we know of the Holy Spirit.

An attempt to explain God from physical perspective only brings error..and if we can't, we cannot fully grasp the concept of Trinity.

That is why the concept of Trinity will remain difficult to explain.. ..As children of God,

we should take whatever explanation the Bible gives us and allow the Holy Spirit to explain to us ,
knowing fully well that the full understanding will come when we reign with him...

Anas09:

Bros, JW won't have the chance of that mystery, they won't go to Heaven. They choose to remain in the material realm on earth. They reject being the Bride of Christ, that is because they don't know Him.

bloodofthelamb:
I'm being edified by all the post in this thread. MuttleyLaff, Anas, Jiggaz, ihedinobi, Originalkalokalo. More grace and understanding to you all

ihedinobi2:
Hello everyone.

I think I'll just hit the high points and if you want further explanation, I'll try to provide it.

In the Bible, God is a Trinity. That is, there are Three Distinct Persons Who are each God in Their Own Right but Who are in such perfect unity that they are One Being in a way that is completely beyond our ability to understand. Their Unity is complete and Perfect. It has always been and it will always be.

These Three Persons are revealed in the Bible as the Father, the Son/the Word and the Holy Spirit.

The Father is usually the One Who is most clearly known as God in the Bible but He is always portrayed as being separate from us. He is the One most clearly seen as exercising the Authority of God in planning, giving commands and ordering awesome judgments. Otherwise, there is a sense of remoteness and awe to Him for us.

The Son is the One we know quite well from all the "contact" that the Godhead has had with humanity. He is the One Who did the act of creating everything which the Father had ordained and planned. He carries out the Will of the Father such as in executing Judgments that He (the Father) has ordered. He it was Who wiped out the elite units of the Egyptian Army that went after the Hebrews under the direct command of the Pharaoh. He it was Who destroyed the Assyrian army besieging Jerusalem. He it was Who flooded the world in Noah's Day. He is the One Who is most well known to us, not least because He is the One Who took on human flesh to fulfill the Father's Plan of Redemption. I'll come back to that in a moment. He can be hard to distinguish from the Father which shouldn't be surprising because they are really One Being. In Is 6 and Eze 1, for example, it is actually the Son Who is seen there on the Throne but in Rev 4, it is the Father. But the two appearances are so similar that it often has to be explained that all theophanies (that is, appearances and manifestations of God in the earth) are really Christophanies (that is, appearances of the Son in the earth). However, the Son's self-selected Role in the God-Head is as the Executor of the Father's Plan.

The Holy Spirit is the One least "seen" or "heard" of the Godhead. The Father is the One we easily recognize as God. The Son confuses a lot of us because of His more obvious involvement with the Creation. But the Holy Spirit is even unknown as a Person to many. Yet, the Holy Spirit is just as much God as the Father and the Son. However, His self-chosen role in the God-Head is as the invisible, unobtrusive "Empowerer" of all that God does. An easy example of His Work is the restraint that He maintains on evil. Without Him, evil would have already spun out of control. He is more easily connected with the Power of God than the Father and Son are, so much so that there is actually a sect (the Jehovah's Witnesses) which teaches that He is not a Person but is just the Power of God. But He is a Person and He is God but He is the One Member of the Godhead Who is more in the background than the others.

Finally, God is not "a" Spirit. God is Spirit. Angels are spirits. One angel is a spirit. But God is Spirit. Another way to appreciate that is this: every creature is a being. We are all beings. But God is not a being. Rather, He is Being. Note that the word being derives from the verb, to be. What we are saying is that God is not "one of the things that exist", we are saying that as far as words can go, God is existence itself. So, it is hard to understand God and the Three Persons of God in the same way that we understand our own existence and realities.

Now, back to the Son.

Something about the Son contributes to the confusion about the Godhead for most people - believing and unbelieving alike. It is that He became Man. And when He did, not a few things that He said and did left the impression that He was God and maybe-not-God. For example, He says "I and the Father are One", a clear claim to Deity. But then He says also, "The Father is greater than the Son", a puzzle to many as this thread shows. And for us weak humans, the difficulty is understanding how both things could be equally true.

There are other examples of such difficult things. One example is when Peter says that our Lord knows all things and the Lord did not correct or contradict Him but yet He also said somewhere else that the Day and the Hour of His Return was unknown to Him. If He was truly God, how come there was something unknown to Him? But if He wasn't, how could Peter and the Bible itself suggest that He knew all things? Which was it?

There is a technical term used to describe this particular "problem" or phenomenon. It is called kenosis.

Kenosis describes the humanity of the Lord Jesus before the Cross and His Ascension to the Father. In His Humanity, His Deity was self-restrained. That is, He separated His Human Nature from His Divine Nature and did not use His Deity to help Himself. So, even though He was truly God, He did not live among us then as God. He was truly human with human weakness and need to rely on God for everything - which was why the Holy Spirit was the Empowerer of all that He did. So, what He knew in His Humanity was what the Father granted Him to know through the Spirit. He did not use His Own Omniscience so His Humanity could be ignorant of things that His Deity was not at all. That is, He, like us, was to depend entirely on God for everything. And He did.

This is the context in which He said, "the Father is greater than the Son". As Phil 2:6-11 and Heb 2:9 make clear, becoming human to die for us was truly a humbling of Himself from Deity to humanity. In the prophets, the Messiah is often called God's Servant in the popular English translations of The Bible. That is, of course, a position of subservience to the Father. So, if the Son accepted (as Phil 2:7says that He did) the role of a servant, then, of course He was right to say in His Humanity (Phil 2:8...) that the Father is greater than the Son.

Finally, the status of the Lord Jesus after His Glorification appears to be confusing to many too. This has also led to difficulty in understanding His Relationship to the Father now and in eternity. In fact, this is probably the Greatest thing about being human for us:

God became Man. That is the story of Creation. That the Lord God demonstrated the depth, height, breadth and length of His Love for us by entering into eternal union with Man. There is no other way that the Scriptures tell us that Man could have been saved after Adam sinned. The solution that God put to work was to ordain that the Second Person of the Trinity would take on genuine human flesh and die for our sins and be raised from the dead to live forever as Man. That is, God The Son is now not only God but Man as well forevermore. This is how human beings will end up greater even than the angels: because of this seamless union with Deity.

By becoming man to die for us, the Lord Jesus brought human nature into seamless union with the divine nature. Once the Cross was finished and our Lord ascended to the Father, kenosis ended and His Deity and His Humanity became One. So, all that He is in His Deity has impressed upon all that He is in His Humanity now. So, right now, as we speak, and since His Glorification, He has known the exact Day and Hour of His Return because He always knew that in His Deity. Right now, however, He is also the Servant of the Father as much as He is God The Son so He can still say that the Father is greater than the Son and that He sits in the Father's Throne. The Eternal Kingdom is both the Father's and His. He won co-rulership of it through His obedience as a Man to the Father and shares that co-rulership with us if we maintain our faith until the end. This is how becoming Man has affected His Relationship with the Father. He is both Deity Who knows everything and Man Who rules over creation as God's Regent.

There is much more to say but it will take a lot more work to say it and perhaps it will be best to say it all elsewhere. Still, if anything I have said is unclear or needs further clarification or defending, I will be happy to oblige.

bloodofthelamb:
What is true about God is also true about Jesus Christ. They are both of the same nature and form(John1:1). I believe the Father is only greater than the Son just in role or rank. What do you guys think?

In Scripture, beginning in the Old Testament, the God of Israel described Himself in so many words:
▪︎ God is the God of Wrath
▪︎ God is God of Laws
▪︎ God is Good/Righteous
▪︎ God is Faithful
▪︎ God is Love
▪︎ God is True (Word)
▪︎ God is Life
▪︎ All Wisdom, Knowledge, and Understanding are of God

And of Jesus Christ, we are informed by Him, particularly in John 14 vs 6, that He is:
▪︎ God's Truth (Word)
▪︎ God's Life
▪︎ God's Law (one of many) aka The Way

bloodofthelamb:
What is true about God is also true about Jesus Christ. They are both of the same nature and form(John1:1).

I believe the Father is only greater than the Son just in role or rank.
What do you guys think?

Kobojunkie:
I believe this claim of yours that it is only in role and rank is wrong considering Jesus Christ Himself explained who He is in light of who the Father is right there in Scripture for all who would pay heed to His Words to learn.




As you can see from what Jesus Christ said, He is a part of the Father but not all that His Father is.

God is a triune being, meaning he exist in three distinct individual persons!
it is difficult for we as humans to imagine it because we don't exist like that. we are mono individuals but having the imprints of the triune God.

Jesus was lesser than God simply because he became a man he was even lesser than the angels.
when Jesus was not glorified he was both lesser than God and angels but when he was glorified he was still less than God but much more higher than the angels.
if you keep in mind the fact that Jesus is both man and God you will understand the bible better.



Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.




Philippians 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Michael547:
■ What does the statement 'in the beginning' mean in John 1:1?

Kobojunkie:
Is God a different being from whom He was in the beginning? Is God no longer Eternal and unchanging in His being?

Michael547:
■ I don't understand you oo. What does the statement 'in the beginning' mean in John 1:1. That is what I am asking. Are you implying that God had a beginning?

1 Before the world began, the Word was there. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was there with God in the beginning.
3 Everything was made through him, and nothing was made without him.
4 In him there was life, and that life was a light for the people of the world.
5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not defeated it. - John 1 vs 1 - 5

Kobojunkie:
The writer of the Gospel did not leave the meaning up for interpretation.
The question asked on this thread is in what way is the Father greater than the Son?

Aemmyjah:
■ God had a beginning. Yes or No?