tintingz:
Most intelligent people in religious societies in the past are mostly apostates or heretics.

budaatum:

Educate us please, name your favorite heretic.

Here's mine.

Giordano Bruno born1548, tried for heresy by the Roman Inquisition and burnt at the stake in Rome's Campo be' Fiori on 17 February 1600.


Do not worry about links, I'll do them if you don't.

tintingz:
Abu al-Hasan Ahmad ibn Yahya ibn Ishaq al-Rawandi (Arabic: أبو الحسن أحمد بن يحيى بن إسحاق الراوندي‎), commonly known as Ibn al-Rawandi (Arabic: ابن الراوندي‎;‎ 827–911 CE[1]), was an early skeptic of Islam and a critic of religion in general. In his early days, he was a Mu'tazilite scholar, but after rejecting the Mu'tazilite doctrine, he became a freethinker who repudiated Islam and revealed religion.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_al-Rawandi

budaatum:

Proper heretic! Some would stone him even today!

tintingz:
Yes!

Abdullah al-Qasemi (1907 – 9 January 1996) (Arabic: عبدالله القصيمي‎) was a Saudi Arabian 20th-century writer and intellectual. He is one of the most controversial intellectuals in the Arab world because of his radical change from defending Salafism to defending atheism and rejecting organized religion. He questioned the existence of God and criticised religions, which resulted in the allegations of him becoming an atheist, therefore his books were banned all over the Arab world.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_al-Qasemi

vaxx:
Mine will be in other way. (I.e) opposite of the topic,

Moses Hess - is a philosopher that first influenced Karl Marx in his criticism of religion, but who later tried to combine the pantheism of Baruch Spinoza with Hegelianism and one former Mexico president name "" plutarco"" and ""Anthony flew"" another clever philosopher.

budaatum:

Why do you consider him a heretic, vaxx?

vaxx:
i am speaking in opposite of your topic, these are staunch atheist who later by logic and reasons come back to faith belief system.

budaatum:

Got you. Thanks.

budaatum:

"Men find their religions as they find their homelands, their lands, their homes and their fathers. They just find them, they do not search for them, do not understand them, do not choose them either."

budaatum:

Educate us please, name your favorite heretic.

Here's mine.

Giordano Bruno born1548, tried for heresy by the Roman Inquisition and burnt at the stake in Rome's Campo be' Fiori on 17 February 1600.

Charges made against Bruno by the Roman Inquisition were:

holding opinions contrary to the Catholic faith and speaking against it and its ministers;

holding opinions contrary to the Catholic faith about the Trinity, divinity of Christ, and Incarnation;

holding opinions contrary to the Catholic faith pertaining to Jesus as Christ;

holding opinions contrary to the Catholic faith regarding the virginity of Mary, mother of Jesus;

holding opinions contrary to the Catholic faith about both Tran substantiation and Mass;

claiming the existence of a plurality of worlds and their eternity;

believing in metempsychosis and in the transmigration of the human soul into brutes;

dealing in magics and divination.



Do not worry about links, I'll do them if you don't.

LordReed:
Hmmm, not really a heretic but as a speculated homosexual (he never married) who was close to the Catholic Church, I enter Leonardo da Vinci as my candidate.

budaatum:

Educate us please, name your favorite heretic.

Here's mine.

Giordano Bruno born1548, tried for heresy by the Roman Inquisition and burnt at the stake in Rome's Campo be' Fiori on 17 February 1600.

Charges made against Bruno by the Roman Inquisition were:

holding opinions contrary to the Catholic faith and speaking against it and its ministers;

holding opinions contrary to the Catholic faith about the Trinity, divinity of Christ, and Incarnation;

holding opinions contrary to the Catholic faith pertaining to Jesus as Christ;

holding opinions contrary to the Catholic faith regarding the virginity of Mary, mother of Jesus;

holding opinions contrary to the Catholic faith about both Transubstantiation and Mass;

claiming the existence of a plurality of worlds and their eternity;

believing in metempsychosis and in the transmigration of the human soul into brutes;

dealing in magics and divination.



Do not worry about links, I'll do them if you don't.

Ubenedictus:
I believe DA Vinci shouldn't even be mentioned here, he died a Catholic in good standing, he wasn't found guilty of heresy and I believe he is buried in a Catholic chapel somewhere

Ubenedictus:



why is he your favourite?

Ubenedictus:
I believe DA Vinci shouldn't even be mentioned here, he died a Catholic in good standing, he wasn't found guilty of heresy and I believe he is buried in a Catholic chapel somewhere

Ubenedictus:


character wise, my favorite heretic will be Luther, intellectually speaking, my favorite heretic will be Calvin.



Luther was pretty much the feisty fiery type of human being, happy to smile and be Christian this minute and then insult and bite off your head the next.

he produced probably the best thoughts Protestantism has to offer but also produced probably the best antisemitic works ever and had long speeches filled with bile, to his credit he was a man of great convictions, he created his entire theology simply because he felt unworthy before God, and the moment he felt better he was ready to stand before everyone and defend what he believed, this individualism and assurance of rightness is probably the reason we have so many different Protestant sects, the different Protestant arms came together to discuss the Eucharist and it didn't take long before both side accuse the other of been damned heretics.


Calvin on the other hand was a lawyer with a big brain, he made sure to push every thought he had to it extreme, heck who before him was mad enough to build entire theology upon God's predestination?


both were condemned by the council of Trent, etc

LordReed:
Hmmm, not really a heretic but as a speculated homosexual (he never married) who was close to the Catholic Church, I enter Leonardo da Vinci as my candidate.

budaatum:

Leonardo di ser Piero da Vinci
15 April 1452 – 2 May 1519

LordReed:


A long quote follows, shows good ol' Leo was nobody's fool not even the Church.

“When the followers and reciters of the works of others are compared to those who are inventors and interpreters between Nature and man, it is as though they are non-existent mirror images of some original. Given that it is only by chance that we are invested with the human form, I might think of them as being a herd of animals.”

“Those who try to censor knowledge do harm to both knowledge and love, because love is the offspring of knowledge, and the passion of love grows in proportion to the certainty of knowledge. The more we know about nature, the more we can be certain of what we know, and so the more love we can feel for nature as a whole.”

“Of what use are those who try to restrict what we know to only those things that are easy to comprehend, often because they themselves are not inclined to learn more about a particular subject, like the subject of the human body.”

“And yet they want to comprehend the mind of God, talking about it as though they had already dissected it into parts. Still, they remain unaware of their own bodies, of the realities of their surroundings, and even unaware of their own stupidity.”

“Along with the scholars, they despise the mathematical sciences, which are the only true sources of information about those things which they claim to know so much about. Instead, they talk about miracles and write about things that nobody could ever know, things that cannot be proven by any evidence in nature.”

“It seems to me that all studies are vain and full of errors unless they are based on experience and can be tested by experiment, in other words, they can be demonstrated to our senses. For if we are doubtful of what our senses perceive then how much more doubtful should we be of things that our senses cannot perceive, like the nature of God and the soul and other such things over which there are endless disputes and controversies.”

“Wherever there is no true science and no certainty of knowledge, there will be conflicting speculations and quarrels. However, whenever things are proven by scientific demonstration and known for certain, then all quarreling will cease. And if controversy should ever arise again, then our first conclusions must have been questionable.”

budaatum:
Jesus (c. 4 BC – c. AD 30 / 33),
also referred to as Jesus of Nazareth and Jesus Christ, was a first-century Jewish preacher and religious leader. He is the central figure of Christianity. Most Christians believe he is the incarnation of God the Son and the awaited Messiah (Christ) prophesied in the Old Testament.

He was arrested and tried by the Jewish authorities, turned over to the Roman government, and was subsequently crucified on the order of Pontius Pilate, the Roman prefect.

I love the way he is said to have stood up to the religious people of his day telling them their understanding was wrong and that they did not temper the word with its spirit to steal from the poor.
Then the poor yelled, "Cricify him!" Irony, you'd think. Now he's their saviour, and I stick my neck out and say they still crucify him!

Jesus is my favorite favorite heretic.
The greatest atheist too.

budaatum:
Jesus (c. 4 BC – c. AD 30 / 33), also referred to as Jesus of Nazareth and Jesus Christ, was a first-century Jewish preacher and religious leader. He is the central figure of Christianity. Most Christians believe he is the incarnation of God the Son and the awaited Messiah (Christ) prophesied in the Old Testament.

He was arrested and tried by the Jewish authorities, turned over to the Roman government, and was subsequently crucified on the order of Pontius Pilate, the Roman prefect.

I love the way he is said to have stood up to the religious people of his day telling them their understanding was wrong and that they did not temper the word with its spirit to steal from the poor. Then the poor yelled, "Cricify him!" Irony, you'd think. Now he's their saviour, and I stick my neck out and say they still crucify him!

Jesus is my favorite favorite heretic. The greatest atheist too.

budaatum:
Jesus (c. 4 BC – c. AD 30 / 33), also referred to as Jesus of Nazareth and Jesus Christ, was a first-century Jewish preacher and religious leader. He is the central figure of Christianity. Most Christians believe he is the incarnation of God the Son and the awaited Messiah (Christ) prophesied in the Old Testament.

He was arrested and tried by the Jewish authorities, turned over to the Roman government, and was subsequently crucified on the order of Pontius Pilate, the Roman prefect.

I love the way he is said to have stood up to the religious people of his day telling them their understanding was wrong and that they did not temper the word with its spirit to steal from the poor. Then the poor yelled, "Cricify him!" Irony, you'd think. Now he's their saviour, and I stick my neck out and say they still crucify him!

Jesus is my favorite favorite heretic. The greatest atheist too.

budaatum:

He had profound ideas for his time, opened up a new way of looking at things, was stubborn enough to stick to his ground and he's the one I've read about the most. He has a huge influence on me.

LordReed:


Never said he was a heretic. I said he was probably a homosexual and if he was operating right under the nose of the church then he was practically defying the church right under their nose.

Ubenedictus:
defying the church ke, it is pretty hard to prove anyone is a homosexual, unless you meet him in the act. There was nothing for him to be accused of. A lot of people at that time could be unmarried, one can't just imagine that each one is a homosexual

budaatum:

Words of a proper heretic. He must have managed to remain under the radar of the heretic hunters to have achieved so much!

LordReed:


He and 3 others were once charged with sodomy. It might be hard to prove but the speculation has roots in actual evidence. Besides even just a cursory reading of the quote of his I post would show that he did not elevate religion above science.