Question

In Kitaab as-Sunnah by Ibn Abi ‘Aasim it is narrated that Imam ‘Ali said: No man will be brought to me who gives me precedence over Abu Bakr and ‘Umar but I shall flog him with the hadd punishment of one who fabricates lies. If Imam ‘Ali himself acknowledged that Abu Bakr and ‘Umar (may Allah be pleased with them) were more deserving of the caliphate than him, then why did he, along with some other Sahaabah, refuse to swear allegiance to Abu Bakr as the caliph? With regard to the second matter, it is when ‘Uthmaan ibn ‘Affaan (may Allah be pleased with him) beat ‘Ammaar ibn Yaasir (may Allah be pleased with him) twice: once because he disagreed with ‘Uthmaan openly in the mosque about ‘Uthmaan’s right to use of the (public) wealth of the Muslims, and he beat him in the presence of ‘Ali ibn Abi Taalib, and the second occasion was when he delivered a message to ‘Uthmaan from his opponents, telling him that he had failed to follow the example set by the caliphates of Abu Bakr and ‘Umar (may Allah be pleased with them). Did ‘Ali see ‘Ammaar being beaten without doing anything? How sound are such claims?

Lukgaf:


Question

In Kitaab as-Sunnah by Ibn Abi ‘Aasim it is narrated that Imam ‘Ali said: No man will be brought to me who gives me precedence over Abu Bakr and ‘Umar but I shall flog him with the hadd punishment of one who fabricates lies.

# Obviously, if this alleged saying of Imam Ali is anything to go by, then Allah and His Prophet Muhammad, salallahu alayhi wa ahli, need to be flogged (authubillah min dhaka).

# Several senior sahabah who believed and elevate Ali ibn AbiTalib also deserved flogging.


# Al-Hafiz ibn Hajar al-Asqalani (d. 852 H) states:
"Ahmad, Abu Dawud and al-Nasai have recorded with a Sahih Chain from Nu'man b. Bashir:

Abu Bakr sought permission to enter the house of the Prophet, peace be upon him, and heard the voice of 'Aishah, very loud, and she was saying (to the prophet), "I HAVE KNOWN THAT 'ALI IS MORE BELOVED TO YOU THAN MY FATHER."

Source: Fath al-Bari sharh Sahih al-Bukhari (Beirut: Dar al-Marifah Li al-Taba'ah wa al-Nashr, 2nd edition), vol.7, p.19



# Imam Ahmad also records:

Abd Allah (b. Ahmad) - my father (Ahmad b. Hanbal) - Abu Na'im - Yunus - al-'Ayzar b. Hurayth - al-Nu'man b. Bashir:

Abu Bakr sought the permission of the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, to enter his house, and heard the voice of Aishah, very loud. She was saying, "I SWEAR BY ALLAH, I HAVE DISCOVERED THAT 'ALI IS MORE BELOVED TO YOU THAN MY FATHER AND ME." She said it twice or thrice. So, Abu Bakr sought permission (again) and entered, and reached for her, and said, "O daughter of such-and-such woman! Did I hear you raising your voice upon the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him?"

Shaykh al-Ar'naut says: Its Chain is Hasan.

Source: Musnad (Cairo: Muasassat Qurtubah)[annotator: Shuaib al-Ar'naut], vol.4, p.275, #18444



And never forget hadith of the bird. Imam al-Tirmidhi in his Sahih Sunan, Kitab manaqib (book on virtues), Imam Ibn Asakir (d. 571 H) records:

Abu Ghalib b. al-Bana - Abu al-Husayn b. al-Abnusi - Abu al-Hasan al-Daraqutni - Muhammad b. Mukhlid b. Hafs - Hatim b. al-Layth - Ubayd Allah b. Musa - Isa b. Umar al-Qari - al-Suddi - Anas b. Malik:

Birds were given as gifts to the Messenger of Allah. So, he distributed them and left a bird. Then he said, "O Allah, bring to me THE MOST BELOVED TO YOU OF YOUR CREATION to eat with me from this bird. So, Ali ibn Abi Talib came and entered and ate with him from that bird."

Source: Tarikh Madinah Dimashq (Beirut: Dar al-Fikr; 1415 H) [annotator: Ali Shiri], vol.42, p. 254.

Lukgaf:

If Imam ‘Ali himself acknowledged that Abu Bakr and ‘Umar (may Allah be pleased with them) were more deserving of the caliphate than him, then why did he, along with some other Sahaabah, refuse to swear allegiance to Abu Bakr as the caliph?

# Excellent question that need answer. Why were Ali Ibn Abi Talib and his supporters refused to pay allegiance to Abubakr?

Sahih Bukhari says Ali later gave allegiance only after six months when his wife died and he realized that people were showing hostile attitude to him. (Fatima never recognized the leadership of Abubakr).

And to clearly show that the allegiance to Abubakr by Ali Ibn Abi Talib was fake, Imam Muslim documents (Imam Bukhari edited the hadith) that during the caliphate of Umar ibn al-Khattab, Ali used to thought of Abubakr and Umar as SINFUL, LIAR, TREACHEROUS AND DISHONEST.

So, how on earth can such saying ( "I will flog whoever give me superiority over Abubakr and Umar" ) be ever true?

Lukgaf:


With regard to the second matter, it is when ‘Uthmaan ibn ‘Affaan (may Allah be pleased with him) beat ‘Ammaar ibn Yaasir (may Allah be pleased with him) twice: once because he disagreed with ‘Uthmaan openly in the mosque about ‘Uthmaan’s right to use of the (public) wealth of the Muslims, and he beat him in the presence of ‘Ali ibn Abi Taalib, and the second occasion was when he delivered a message to ‘Uthmaan from his opponents, telling him that he had failed to follow the example set by the caliphates of Abu Bakr and ‘Umar (may Allah be pleased with them). Did ‘Ali see ‘Ammaar being beaten without doing anything? How sound are such claims?

It was not only Aamar ibn Yasir that disagreed and opposed Uthman ibn Affan. Even Ali Ibn Abi Talib himself disagreed and opposed him.

There is absolutely no doubt that Uthman established several bid'ah acts which made several sahabah disagreed and opposed him. Apart from that he mistreated excellent sahabah (for opposing him) and favored his kinsman and lavished them with wealth and posts.

Uthman was eventually murderer by the fellow sahabah who sieged him for days with no access to anything.

So it's not about why didn't Ali responded when Aamar was beaten in front of him.


IF YOU NEED ANY CLARIFICATION OR EVIDENCE FOR MY POINTS ABOVE, KINDLY MAKE YOUR INTENTIONS KNOWN. IT SHALL BE GIVEN ABUNDANTLY IN SHA ALLAH

AlBaqir or what is your name, you are deceiving yourself!

AlBaqir:


# Obviously, if this alleged saying of Imam Ali is anything to go by, then Allah and His Prophet Muhammad, salallahu alayhi wa ahli, need to be flogged (authubillah min dhaka).

# Several senior sahabah who believed and elevate Ali ibn AbiTalib also deserved flogging.


# Al-Hafiz ibn Hajar al-Asqalani (d. 852 H) states:
"Ahmad, Abu Dawud and al-Nasai have recorded with a Sahih Chain from Nu'man b. Bashir:

Abu Bakr sought permission to enter the house of the Prophet, peace be upon him, and heard the voice of 'Aishah, very loud, and she was saying (to the prophet), "I HAVE KNOWN THAT 'ALI IS MORE BELOVED TO YOU THAN MY FATHER."

Source: Fath al-Bari sharh Sahih al-Bukhari (Beirut: Dar al-Marifah Li al-Taba'ah wa al-Nashr, 2nd edition), vol.7, p.19



# Imam Ahmad also records:

Abd Allah (b. Ahmad) - my father (Ahmad b. Hanbal) - Abu Na'im - Yunus - al-'Ayzar b. Hurayth - al-Nu'man b. Bashir:

Abu Bakr sought the permission of the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, to enter his house, and heard the voice of Aishah, very loud. She was saying, "I SWEAR BY ALLAH, I HAVE DISCOVERED THAT 'ALI IS MORE BELOVED TO YOU THAN MY FATHER AND ME." She said it twice or thrice. So, Abu Bakr sought permission (again) and entered, and reached for her, and said, "O daughter of such-and-such woman! Did I hear you raising your voice upon the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him?"

Shaykh al-Ar'naut says: Its Chain is Hasan.

Source: Musnad (Cairo: Muasassat Qurtubah)[annotator: Shuaib al-Ar'naut], vol.4, p.275, #18444



And never forget hadith of the bird. Imam al-Tirmidhi in his Sahih Sunan, Kitab manaqib (book on virtues), Imam Ibn Asakir (d. 571 H) records:

Abu Ghalib b. al-Bana - Abu al-Husayn b. al-Abnusi - Abu al-Hasan al-Daraqutni - Muhammad b. Mukhlid b. Hafs - Hatim b. al-Layth - Ubayd Allah b. Musa - Isa b. Umar al-Qari - al-Suddi - Anas b. Malik:

Birds were given as gifts to the Messenger of Allah. So, he distributed them and left a bird. Then he said, "O Allah, bring to me THE MOST BELOVED TO YOU OF YOUR CREATION to eat with me from this bird. So, Ali ibn Abi Talib came and entered and ate with him from that bird."

Source: Tarikh Madinah Dimashq (Beirut: Dar al-Fikr; 1415 H) [annotator: Ali Shiri], vol.42, p. 254.





# Excellent question that need answer. Why were Ali Ibn Abi Talib and his supporters refused to pay allegiance to Abubakr?

Sahih Bukhari says Ali later gave allegiance only after six months when his wife died and he realized that people were showing hostile attitude to him. (Fatima never recognized the leadership of Abubakr).

And to clearly show that the allegiance to Abubakr by Ali Ibn Abi Talib was fake, Imam Muslim documents (Imam Bukhari edited the hadith) that during the caliphate of Umar ibn al-Khattab, Ali used to thought of Abubakr and Umar as SINFUL, LIAR, TREACHEROUS AND DISHONEST.

So, how on earth can such saying ( "I will flog whoever give me superiority over Abubakr and Umar" ) be ever true?




It was not only Aamar ibn Yasir that disagreed and opposed Uthman ibn Affan. Even Ali Ibn Abi Talib himself disagreed and opposed him.

There is absolutely no doubt that Uthman established several bid'ah acts which made several sahabah disagreed and opposed him. Apart from that he mistreated excellent sahabah (for opposing him) and favored his kinsman and lavished them with wealth and posts.

Uthman was eventually murderer by the fellow sahabah who sieged him for days with no access to anything.

So it's not about why didn't Ali responded when Aamar was beaten in front of him.


IF YOU NEED ANY CLARIFICATION OR EVIDENCE FOR MY POINTS ABOVE, KINDLY MAKE YOUR INTENTIONS KNOWN. IT SHALL BE GIVEN ABUNDANTLY IN SHA ALLAH

Lukgaf:
AlBaqir or what is your name, you are deceiving yourself!

That's a pathetic reply bro. This forum supposed to be an academic one. Kindly refrain from copy pasting what you cannot defend if exposed.

Laughing.. Busted. A kafir vs kafir..

Maa watch.

Mr copy and paste vs Mr Shia

Abuheekmat:
Laughing.. Busted. A kafir vs kafir..

Maa watch.

Mr copy and paste vs Mr Shia

Abuheekmat answer his question.

Lukgaf:


Question

In Kitaab as-Sunnah by Ibn Abi ‘Aasim it is narrated that Imam ‘Ali said: No man will be brought to me who gives me precedence over Abu Bakr and ‘Umar but I shall flog him with the hadd punishment of one who fabricates lies. If Imam ‘Ali himself acknowledged that Abu Bakr and ‘Umar (may Allah be pleased with them) were more deserving of the caliphate than him, then why did he, along with some other Sahaabah, refuse to swear allegiance to Abu Bakr as the caliph? With regard to the second matter, it is when ‘Uthmaan ibn ‘Affaan (may Allah be pleased with him) beat ‘Ammaar ibn Yaasir (may Allah be pleased with him) twice: once because he disagreed with ‘Uthmaan openly in the mosque about ‘Uthmaan’s right to use of the (public) wealth of the Muslims, and he beat him in the presence of ‘Ali ibn Abi Taalib, and the second occasion was when he delivered a message to ‘Uthmaan from his opponents, telling him that he had failed to follow the example set by the caliphates of Abu Bakr and ‘Umar (may Allah be pleased with them). Did ‘Ali see ‘Ammaar being beaten without doing anything? How sound are such claims?

Find Sheikh Yasir Qadhi's channel
on YouTube he explained it well.

najib632:
Abuheekmat answer his question.

Which question

Abuheekmat:
Laughing.. Busted. A kafir vs kafir..

Maa watch.

Mr copy and paste vs Mr Shia

Bokoharam