Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Isaiah 64:7 And there is none that calleth upon thy name, that stirreth up himself to take hold of thee: for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of our iniquities.

You hear people saying, our works of righteousness cannot save us, and we do not need to be righteous, we do not need works but grace covers us blah blah blah and many wrong things based on the mis-understanding of Isaiah 64:6.

God values righteousness, God loves righteousness, God cherishes righteousness, God loves righteous people, and our righteousness is not like filthy rags before him. Infact, our righteousness before him is a sweet smelling savour that he appreciates so much, and which never fails to bring the desired results from him when he is entreated in their light.

The verse in Isaiah is just talking about the general decadence in the land of Israel during the time of Isaiah. Israel were showing fake righteousness, they were the fig tree that was full of leaves (full of show) but had no fruits of righteousness (verse 7).

Henceforth, never ever agree with anyone who says your righteousness before God is like filthy rags. Your righteousness before God is a sweet smelling incense that he never fails to appreciate. Your righteousness is your kindness and empathy to your fellow human being, and to all of creation. Your righteousness is your good works.

Titus 2:7
In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,

Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Titus 3:8
This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

Titus 3:14
And let ours also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful.

noun: righteousness

1. the quality of being morally right or justifiable.

synonyms: goodness, virtue, virtuousness, uprightness, decency, integrity, worthiness, rectitude, probity, morality, ethicalness, high-mindedness, justice, honesty, honour, honourableness, innocence, blamelessness, guiltlessness, irreproachability, sinlessness, saintliness, purity, nobility, noble-mindedness, piety, piousness

How can any of these synonyms be filthy rags?

How could Justice, blamelessness, sinlessness, purity, nobility, piousness etc be filthy rags?

Romans 2:14-15
For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Paul is telling us here that the gentiles who do not have the law are doing the things of the law (righteousness, empathy, piousness, justice, judgement, piety, mercy etc), he says that this shows the work of the law of God written in their hearts.

Paul affirms that these people will be justified at the coming of Jesus Christ much more than those who claim to be saved but show no pattern of good works.

MrPresident1:


You hear people saying, our works of righteousness cannot save us, and we do not need to be righteous, we do not need works but grace covers us blah blah blah and many wrong things based on the mis-understanding of Isaiah 64:6.

I do often wonder how people claim they are saved by grace and not by their works as if everything Jesus preached was not about work. Is grace going to lift up ones cross and bear it, or fix the roads, schools and hospitals and prolong life here on earth, which is a clear sign that eternal life is being approached?

When we look at nations in Europe, we see how developed they are. All that development came through work, and the only grace about it is that they studied (work) and learnt (more work) about the world and how to improve it while those who are relying on grace are receding back into the 1800s!

Thanks for this President!

budaatum:

I do often wonder how people claim they are saved by grace and not by their works as if everything Jesus preached was not about work. Is grace going to lift up ones cross and bear it, or fix the roads, schools and hospitals and prolong life here on earth, which is a clear sign that eternal life is being approached?

When we look at nations in Europe, we see how developed they are. All that development came through work, and the only grace about it is that they studied (work) and learnt (more work) about the world and how to improve it while those who are relying on grace are receding back into the 1800s!

Thanks for this President!

The work I am talking about is not physical work. You and I are not saying the same thing.

The work I am talking about is goodness and empathy and kindness, not hard labour.

Europe did not develop by hard labour for your information, Europe developed because God gave them the permission, Europe started developing after the dark ages, and during those dark ages Blackman ruled the world. Europeans during the dark ages were the real shitholers, you can read up on the dark ages. And Europe/America's time is over, their ascension started in the Renaissance and ended at the last trump. Now Christ must return and the world must return to default settings, the anomaly of white rule has ended.

More work as you are insinuating here for my people, means more exertion, and more slavery, I do not fail to see through your sleight and shenanigans. When they wake up, you will be well and adequately recompensed. Until then, you and others like you may continue to roam wild.

Job 30:7-8
7 Among the bushes they brayed; under the nettles they were gathered together.
8 They were children of fools, yea, children of base men: they were viler than the earth.

MrPresident1:

The work I am talking about is not physical work. You and I are not saying the same thing.

The work I am talking about is goodness and empathy and kindness, not hard labour.

And "goodness and empathy and kindness", is not "hard labour", and "physical work"?

To me, even understanding the meaning of "goodness and empathy and kindness", and let me add, "goodness, virtue, virtuousness, uprightness, decency, integrity, worthiness, rectitude, probity, morality, ethicalness, high-mindedness, justice, honesty, honour, honourableness, innocence, blamelessness, guiltlessness, irreproachability, sinlessness, saintliness, purity, nobility, noble-mindedness, piety, piousness", is hard physical work and labour that takes many many years. But hey, that's me I guess. Some things come easy to some. A grace thing, I suppose. But to some, God has to so love the world to have the lessons that teach these things written in the blood of his Son so that people like me can 2000 years later have something to guide me along the way to a semblance of righteousness (like 30% of it, if I work really hard).

MrPresident1:

Europe did not develop by hard labour for your information, Europe developed because God gave them the permission, Europe started developing after the dark ages, and during those dark ages Blackman ruled the world. Europeans during the dark ages were the real shitholers, you can read up on the dark ages. And Europe/America's time is over, their ascension started in the Renaissance and ended at the last trump. Now Christ must return and the world must return to default settings, the anomaly of white rule has ended.

I wonder which of us knows not much about the development of Europe! Europe did not "start developing after the dark ages". The “Dark Ages”, between 500 AD and 1500 AD, came after the immense progress that had already been made in Europe up to 500AD, and those 1000 odd years were a period of theocracy which ended with the Renaissance. Some would in fact claim that it was religious arrogance that brought on the so called " Dark Ages". If you check, you would find that despite it being a theocratic ruled period, love was missing. The builders can be building in vain regardless of how much they slave if they do not incorporate that which is wise and Godly in what they do.

MrPresident1:

More work as you are insinuating here for my people, means more exertion, and more slavery, I do not fail to see through your sleight and shenanigans. When they wake up, you will be well and adequately recompensed. Until then, you and others like you may continue to roam wild.

Unfortunately, or rather, fortunately, you are correct, though I am more than insinuating the "more exertion" and not the "slavery" bit, and hopefully by your "people", you mean Nigerians.

Nigerians, whatever work we have done to date has not yet provided us with the sort of environment that we desire. And it is obvious that some nations have developed to states that we admire. Op did say "your righteousness is your good works", and I am suggesting that all those things that we desire about those other nations that have allowed them to have an average life expectancy of over 70 years while ours in Nigeria is in the low 50s came about through their hard work, and a lot of ours! Unless you'd like to argue that "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over every living thing that moves upon the earth", is not God commanding you to work, really hard!

We, are building a people of power, and it takes a lot of work, considering what is being dealt with. And no, not as slaves since we work for our own benefit.

Our righteousness is not as filthy rags, God loves us to be righteous in all that we do at all times

Isaiah 14:3-5
3 And it shall come to pass in the day that the Lord shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve,
4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!
5 The Lord hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.

We will continue to wait patiently for the rest of the LORD and the destruction of the wicked.

Sabbath begins today at sundown. If it is the LORD's rest, then we should be extra watchful of the Sabbath.

The LORD will surely save us from all the sorrows, and fears, and hard labours that Babylon has made us to serve. His promises will not tarry anymore.

I was trying to show that the works of righteousness is empathy, goodness, kindness, mercy, virtue etc., but one dog tried to skew my teaching by sleight of hand, the dog tried to enforce my people's slavery and hard labour by subtle crafty words, implying that by works I mean people should labour harder. I mean works of righteousness not works of hard labour.

Works of righteousness that brings fruits of righteousness is not filthy rags

Israel, God will wake you up very soon, you will be a mighty fearsome and fiery army, and it is by your hands that satan and all his dogs will be punished.

Isaiah 14:3-5
3 And it shall come to pass in the day that the Lord shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve,
4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!
5 The Lord hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers. 

This thread makes me realize why there are numerous Christian denominations. It's because you are all so arrogant. One simple verse will have 1000 ways of spinning interpretations to suit each of your agenda.

It's the sole reason, they must create something out of thin to preach on the pulpit. You will now lie on the holy spirit. God will punish all of you.

luvmijeje:
This thread makes me realize why there are numerous Christian denominations. It's because you are all so arrogant. One simple verse will have 1000 ways of spinning interpretations to suit each of your agenda.

It's the sole reason, they must create something out of thin to preach on the pulpit. You will now lie on the holy spirit. God will punish all of you.

There is no law against the fruits of righteousness.

God loves righteousness

It is righteousness that will exalt us as a nation.

Let us be kind and merciful to one another, this is the certain way to draw God's attention back to us

SHALOM!

MrPresident1:
Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Isaiah 64:7 And there is none that calleth upon thy name, that stirreth up himself to take hold of thee: for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of our iniquities.

You hear people saying, our works of righteousness cannot save us, and we do not need to be righteous, we do not need works but grace covers us blah blah blah and many wrong things based on the mis-understanding of Isaiah 64:6.

The verse in Isaiah is just talking about the general decadence in the land of Israel during the time of Isaiah. Israel were showing fake righteousness, they were the fig tree that was full of leaves (full of show) but had no fruits of righteousness (verse 7).

[*DUH!*]

MrPresident1:
noun: righteousness

1. the quality of being morally right or justifiable.

synonyms: goodness, virtue, virtuousness, uprightness, decency, integrity, worthiness, rectitude, probity, morality, ethicalness, high-mindedness, justice, honesty, honour, honourableness, innocence, blamelessness, guiltlessness, irreproachability, sinlessness, saintliness, purity, nobility, noble-mindedness, piety, piousness

How can any of these synonyms be filthy rags?

How could Justice, blamelessness, sinlessness, purity, nobility, piousness etc be filthy rags?

WHEN THEY ARE ADULTERATED WITH THEIR OPPOSITES.

Which was what was happening at the time of ISAIAH.

. JOHN 8:28-36.

28. Then Said Jesus unto them,

"When ye have lifted up The Son of Man,
then shall ye know that I am he,
and that I do nothing of myself;
but as my Father hath taught me,
I Speak these things.
29. "And He that sent me is with me:
The Father hath not left me alone;
for I do always those things
that please Him."

30. As he Spake these words,
many believed on him.
31. Then Said Jesus to those Jews
which believed on him,

"If ye continue in my Word,
then are ye my Disciples indeed;
32. "And ye shall know The Truth,
and The Truth shall make you free."

33. They answered him,

"We be Abraham's Seed,
and were never in bondage
to any man:
how sayest thou,

'YE SHALL BE MADE FREE?' "

34. Jesus answered them,

"Verily, verily, I Say unto you,

'WHOSOEVER COMMITTETH SIN
IS THE SERVANT OF SIN.
35. 'AND THE SERVANT ABIDETH
NOT IN THE HOUSE FOR EVER:
BUT THE SON ABIDETH EVER.'

36. "If the Son therefore
shall make you free,
ye shall be free indeed."

IF ONE SHOULD PHYSICALLY-IMPLEMENT THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, ONE'S MIND WOULD ACQUIRE THE BASIC BUILDING-BLOCKS OF REALITY, AND THUS BE ABLE TO PUT THEM TOGETHER TO PERCEIVE AND KNOW THE TRUTH.

The Disciples and their Oyinbo successors had to prevent their followers from doing that, in order to keep them in the dark, and lead them by the nose.

oaroloye:

Your words are just plenty, they are empty. You make no sense

Philippians 1:9-11 
9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;
10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ.
11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

There is no law against the fruits of righteousness

MISHAGAS!

MrPresident1:


Your words are just plenty, they are empty. You make no sense

I said nothing but the Truth, and nothing difficult to understand.

"DUH!" is colloquial American English "Valleyspeak" slang, precisely identical to the term "AMABI:" that is "YOU-OUGHT-TO-KNOW!"

Or in ordinary English, "OBVIOUSLY!"

YOU ASKED:

MrPresident1:
noun: righteousness

1. the quality of being morally right or justifiable.

synonyms: goodness, virtue, virtuousness, uprightness, decency, integrity, worthiness, rectitude, probity, morality, ethicalness, high-mindedness, justice, honesty, honour, honourableness, innocence, blamelessness, guiltlessness, irreproachability, sinlessness, saintliness, purity, nobility, noble-mindedness, piety, piousness

How can any of these synonyms be filthy rags?

How could Justice, blamelessness, sinlessness, purity, nobility, piousness etc be filthy rags?

I REPLIED:

oaroloye:
SHALOM!

WHEN THEY ARE ADULTERATED WITH THEIR OPPOSITES.

Which was what was happening at the time of ISAIAH.

. JOHN 8:28-36.

28. Then Said Jesus unto them,

"When ye have lifted up The Son of Man,
then shall ye know that I am he,
and that I do nothing of myself;
but as my Father hath taught me,
I Speak these things.
29. "And He that sent me is with me:
The Father hath not left me alone;
for I do always those things
that please Him."

30. As he Spake these words,
many believed on him.
31. Then Said Jesus to those Jews
which believed on him,

"If ye continue in my Word,
then are ye my Disciples indeed;
32. "And ye shall know The Truth,
and The Truth shall make you free."

33. They answered him,

"We be Abraham's Seed,
and were never in bondage
to any man:
how sayest thou,

'YE SHALL BE MADE FREE?' "

34. Jesus answered them,

"Verily, verily, I Say unto you,

WHOSOEVER COMMITTETH SIN
IS THE SERVANT OF SIN.
35. 'AND THE SERVANT ABIDETH
NOT IN THE HOUSE FOR EVER:
BUT THE SON ABIDETH EVER.'

36. "If the Son therefore
shall make you free,
ye shall be free indeed."

IF ONE SHOULD PHYSICALLY-IMPLEMENT THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, ONE'S MIND WOULD ACQUIRE THE BASIC BUILDING-BLOCKS OF REALITY, AND THUS BE ABLE TO PUT THEM TOGETHER TO PERCEIVE AND KNOW THE TRUTH.

The Disciples and their Oyinbo successors had to prevent their followers from doing that, in order to keep them in the dark, and lead them by the nose.

THAT IS SIXTY-TWO WORDS OF MY OWN- WHICH YOU CLAIMED WERE "MANY" AND "EMPTY."

That is a rude dismissal of my Post, which supported your Doctrine with every line.

That would mean that you never even read anything I said, and merely opposed my Post jist because I wrote it, and not because you had any objection to anything I said.

Ironically, you have given yourself as a perfect example of the hypocrisy Prophet Isaiah was prophesying against!

Lalasticlala, lets go to FP with this wonderful thread

Lalasticlala lets goto FP

Our righteousness being imperfect can't serve as a just basis for our salvation.

You have heard about the doctrine of original sin haven't you?

onlyinJESUS:
Our righteousness being imperfect can't serve as a just basis for our salvation.

You have heard about the doctrine of original sin haven't you?

You are saved to be a righteous person

1 Timothy 6:11-12
But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

What is the doctrine of original sin?

MrPresident1:


You are saved to be a righteous person

1 Timothy 6:11-12
But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

What is the doctrine of original sin?

We are saved to be a righteous person.
Can we still be saved even if we failed to do righteousness?

onlyinJESUS:


We are saved to be a righteous person.
Can we still be saved even if we failed to do righteousness?

NO

MrPresident1:


NO

Then, we are saved on the basis of our good works. Ryt?

onlyinJESUS:

Then, we are saved on the basis of our good works. Ryt?

Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Anyone can profess Jesus from now to next year, but without doing the will of the Father, no man will enter heaven

Titus 3:8
This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

Righteousness is a pattern of good works acceptable to God. Titus encourages everyone who has believed in God to continue to maintain a pattern of good works.

MrPresident1:
Genesis 6:7
7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

Because their works were of wickedness and not of love, and every imagination of the thoughts of their heart was only evil continually.

onlyinJESUS:

Then, we are saved on the basis of our good works. Ryt?

No! But if you are saved you will do good works.