" If through my falsehood God's truthfulness abounds to His glory, why am I still being condemned as a sinner." (Romans 3:7), thereby disregarding and contradicting his own book where we read: "A faithful witness does not lie, but a false witness breathes out lies." (Proverbs 14:5).

Paul lays the Ground work of the use of Lies in spreading God's work or is there any other interpretation of the verse.

Read this:

Rom 3:7-8(AMP)
(7) But [you say] if through my falsehood God's integrity is magnified and advertised and abounds to His glory, why am I still being judged as a sinner?
( And why should we not do evil that good may come?--as some slanderously charge us with teaching. Such [false teaching] is justly condemned by them.

Rom 3:7-8(CEV)
(7) Since your lies bring great honor to God by showing how truthful he is, you may ask why God still says you are a sinner.
( You might as well say, "Let's do something evil, so that something good will come of it!" Some people even claim that we are saying this. But God is fair and will judge them as well.

and this:

Rom 5:20
(20) Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

and finally this:


Rom 6:1-2
(1) What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
(2) God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?


and you will see that the conclusion you arrived at initially was very misplaced.

@tt, i dnt think any reasonable explanation u give would be satisfactory to this insane guy called vedaxcool. He accuses jesus&to date hes yet to show him the number of pple jesus killed or stole their wives like the promiscuous&canterkerous mohammad

This thread should be poster child for what happens when you misappropriate scripture.

Ttalks thanks for posting the[b] full [/b] verse and[b] in context[/b].

Was about replying but Ttalks said it all.Only an ignoramus who reads half of d Bible would ask dat question.The Bible is not contradictory at all,just people who read part and Blindly ignore d other part. . .Remain blessed all

ttalks:

Read this:

Rom 3:7-8(AMP)
(7)  But [you say] if through my falsehood God's integrity is magnified and advertised and abounds to His glory, why am I still being judged as a sinner?
(  And why should we not do evil that good may come?--as some slanderously charge us with teaching. Such [false teaching] is justly condemned by them.

Rom 3:7-8(CEV)
(7)  Since your lies bring great honor to God by showing how truthful he is, you may ask why God still says you are a sinner.
(  You might as well say, "Let's do something evil, so that something good will come of it!" Some people even claim that we are saying this. But God is fair and will judge them as well.

The name of the GAME is change the language and translate it differently if you don't like what was written originally. . . .

mazaje:

The name of the GAME is change the language and translate it differently if you don't like what was written originally?

lol. . .poor try.U hit a brick wall.If u doubt it,counter it. . .

philip0906:

Was about replying but Ttalks said it all.Only an ignoramus who reads half of d Bible would ask dat question.The Bible is not contradictory at all,just people who read part and Blindly ignore d other part. . .Remain blessed all

The contradictions.

Here are a few;

"God is love." - 1 John 4:8
"Love is not jealous." - 1 Corinthians 13:4
"God is jealous." - Exodus 20:5
Psalm 79:5
5 How long, O LORD ? Will you be angry forever?
      How long will your jealousy burn like fire?

Joel 2:18
The LORD's Answer
18 Then the LORD will be jealous for his land
      and take pity on his people.

Here is another one. . . . . . .


If you read the four gospels you may notice that Matthew is somewhat obsessed with mentioning that this and that happened to "fulfill what was written by X prophet".

What is particularly interesting is that in his eagerness to do this prophecy matching, he attributed this quote to the wrong prophet!

Matthew 27:9

"Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet, saying, And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was valued, whom they of the children of Israel did value;"


So, according to Matthew, Jeremiah has to have some paragraphs in his writing that match Matthew's claims. The problem is that you cannot find anything like that written by Jeremiah. But then you suddenly find this quote in the book of Zechariah!


Zechariah 11:12-13

12 "And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver."
13 "And the LORD said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD."

So, what about it? This is simply a human error, humans are not perfect, you  guys say.

And I say, exactly, because the bible is a book written by humans, not by any God, nor inspired by any God, as you Christians claim. Thus, it's full of contradictions, errors and inaccuracies.

@Mazaje
First hope ur doubts about the first has been cleared?

philip0906:

@Mazaje
First hope your doubts about the first has been cleared?

Which doubt?. . . . . . . . . There are so many English translation of the bible(over 80) and all they do is mix things up and make the passage to say what ever they translators want it to say. . . . . .The amplified version of the bible is one of the most fraudulent translation of the English bible. . . .

More biblical errors and contradictions. . . . .

Mark 2:25-26

25 - "And he said unto them, Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungred, he, and they that were with him?"

26 - "How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him?"


1 Samuel 21:1 and 6
1 - "Then came David to Nob to Ahimelech the priest: and Ahimelech was afraid at the meeting of David, and said unto him, Why art thou alone, and no man with thee?"

6 - "So the priest gave him hallowed bread: for there was no bread there but the shewbread, that was taken from before the LORD, to put hot bread in the day when it was taken away."

More contradictions. . . . . . .

God was seen

Genesis 17:1

1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, [size=18pt]the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him,[/size] I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

Genesis 18:1

1 And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day

Exodus 24:9-11

9 Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel:

10 [size=18pt]And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.[/size]

11 And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.

Exodus 33:11

11 [size=18pt]And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend[/size]. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.


God has never been seen

Exodus 33:20

20 And he said, [size=18pt]Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live[/size].

John 1:18

18 [size=18pt]No man hath seen God at any time[/size], the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

John 5:37

37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

John 6:46

46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.


So which is it? The God of the bible was seen or God was not seen? The Bible says both. . . . . . .

mazaje:

Here is another one. . . . . . .


If you read the four gospels you may notice that Matthew is somewhat obsessed with mentioning that this and that happened to "fulfill what was written by X prophet".

What is particularly interesting is that in his eagerness to do this prophecy matching, he attributed this quote to the wrong prophet!

Matthew 27:9

"Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet, saying, And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was valued, whom they of the children of Israel did value;"


So, according to Matthew, Jeremiah has to have some paragraphs in his writing that match Matthew's claims. The problem is that you cannot find anything like that written by Jeremiah. But then you suddenly find this quote in the book of Zechariah!


Zechariah 11:12-13

12 "And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver."
13 "And the LORD said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD."

So, what about it? This is simply a human error, humans are not perfect, you  guys say.

And I say, exactly, because the bible is a book written by humans, not by any God, nor inspired by any God, as you Christians claim. Thus, it's full of contradictions, errors and inaccuracies.

Matthew 27:9–10
Then was fulfilled what was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet, saying, “And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the value of Him who was priced, whom they of the children of Israel priced, and gave them for the potter’s field, as the LORD directed me.”

The quotation about the thirty pieces of silver is highly reminiscent of Zechariah, and it is, therefore, assumed that Matthew made a mistake. If Matthew did make a mistake, then the concept of scriptural inerrancy is undermined.

The most significant error that the skeptics make is to approach this passage deliberately looking for an error. If we look at the passage, while assuming scriptural inerrancy, we can see that there are several rationalizations of the alleged problem that have been discussed over the years. In short they are:

1. Said by Jeremiah but later written by Zechariah
2. Zechariah’s second name is Jeremiah, like “Simon Peter” for Peter
3. Copyist mistake, but the Syriac and Persian versions have no prophet listed and all the Greek versions do
4. This is quoting from an apocryphal work of Jeremiah, like Jude quoting from Enoch
5. The last four chapters of Zechariah were actually written by Jeremiah
6. Due to a different order of books in the Jewish canon, Jeremiah could be given proper credit for any of the minor prophets
7. This passage refers to both sections of Jeremiah and Zechariah, and only Jeremiah is mentioned

More biblical contradictions. . . . . .

Jesus' last words according to three different books of the Bible.

Matthew 27:46 and 50: And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?" that is to say, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" , Jesus, when he cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

Luke 23:46: And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, "Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit:" and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

John 19:30: When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished:" and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

So which is it?  Which verse has the correct last words of Jesus?  For an event that supposedly happened no one could agree on what Jesus said before he died. So much for eyewitness account. . . . .

A Collection of Prophetic Books

This possibility is that Matthew is using a well-established rabbinical formula of referring to a collection of books by the name of the first book in the collection. Jesus used a similar formula in Luke 24:44, where He referred to the Writings section of the Old Testament as Psalms—even though this could include the other writings, such as Proverbs.

In the Jewish Tanakh, the prophetic books were in a different order then the order of the Christian Bible—even though they are all there. The first listed book in the collection of the Prophets was Jeremiah, not Isaiah. Therefore, a citation of Jeremiah could conceivably cover an actual quotation from Zechariah.
The Context of Jeremiah

This explanation involves the way that New Testament writers frequently allude to more than one Old Testament passage, providing an overall context. For the quote by Zechariah, there is a lot of foundational information that is necessary. First, Jeremiah 18 is the famous portion of the Old Testament that discusses God being the Potter and we the clay. And the Lord warns of a disaster to a nation that turns to evil. Israel had just rejected the Son of God, and the spiritual leaders just purchased His death for 30 pieces of silver. The message of the gospel then also went out to the Gentiles. And Israel, particularly Jerusalem, was soon left in ruin.

Also, Jeremiah 19:1–4 gives a more precise placement of the potter’s field, outside the Potsherd Gate of Jerusalem, and the catastrophe that will happen there. The verse mentions that Israel has forsaken God here, and mentions the blood of innocents there too—Christ’s even being the ultimate innocent blood.

Then, of course, Jeremiah 32:9–12 discusses the land and purchase agreements. Although the first quotation in Matthew 27:9–10 is somewhat similar to the passage in Zechariah, the second quotation—“and gave them for the potter’s field, as the LORD directed me”—alludes to Jeremiah 32:6–9, which refers to the potter’s field.

So, these three aspects are Jeremiah’s, and Zechariah seems to build on them. In that respect, it is not an error to refer to the prophet Jeremiah at the point, as the whole passage—including the allusion to Zechariah—is in the context of the potter’s field, as related in Jeremiah.

@Mazaje
Y d'u like feigning ignorance?All these questions were asked by ur broda harakiri and it was answered in this thread
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-505028.160.html
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-505028.192.html

philip0906:

Matthew 27:9–10
Then was fulfilled what was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet, saying, “And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the value of Him who was priced, whom they of the children of Israel priced, and gave them for the potter’s field, as the LORD directed me.”

The quotation about the thirty pieces of silver is highly reminiscent of Zechariah, and it is, therefore, assumed that Matthew made a mistake. If Matthew did make a mistake, then the concept of scriptural inerrancy is undermined.

The most significant error that the skeptics make is to approach this passage deliberately looking for an error. If we look at the passage, while assuming scriptural inerrancy, we can see that there are several rationalizations of the alleged problem that have been discussed over the years. In short they are:

1. Said by Jeremiah but later written by Zechariah
2. Zechariah’s second name is Jeremiah, like “Simon Peter” for Peter
3. Copyist mistake, but the Syriac and Persian versions have no prophet listed and all the Greek versions do
4. This is quoting from an apocryphal work of Jeremiah, like Jude quoting from Enoch
5. The last four chapters of Zechariah were actually written by Jeremiah
6. Due to a different order of books in the Jewish canon, Jeremiah could be given proper credit for any of the minor prophets
7. This passage refers to both sections of Jeremiah and Zechariah, and only Jeremiah is mentioned

Stop copying and pasting the apologies of people that are NOT even sure of what they are saying, the apologist whose work you posted is NOT even sure, he just gave a list of many many things JUST to rationalize the obvious contradiction and error. . . . .He talked about a long list of rationalizations including copyist mistakes . . . . . .Any way it always good to lie for Jesus because even Paul himself said its OK to tell lies on behalf of God. . . . .

mazaje:

Stop copying and pasting the apologies of people that are NOT even sure of what they are saying, the apologist whose work you posted is NOT even sure, he just gave a list of many many things JUST to rationalize the obvious contradiction and error. . . . .He talked about a long list of rationalizations including copyist mistakes . . . . . .Any way it always good to lie for Jesus because even Paul himself said its OK to tell lies on behalf of God. . . . .

So dats how 2 counter?MAn stop screaming d heck about this "apologist" site. . .where did u expect 2 get good answers?Islamic sites?News sites?Atheistic sites? Man stop running around,all u have 2 do is counter(wether copy and paste or not)

More contradictions and nonsense

Where did Jesus first appear to the eleven disciples?  In a room in Jerusalem.  Luke 24:32-37  On a mountain in Galilee.  Matthew 28:15-17

Even the alleged disciples of Jesus can not even agree on where Jesus first appeared to them after he was raised from the dead according to the story. . . . . .

[size=28pt]Some U.S. atheists seem to be confused, Pew survey shows[/size]


There seems to be some confusion among self-described U.S. atheists, at least according to the second part of the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life’s monumental “U.S. Religious Landscape Survey” that was issued today.

It found that 92 percent of Americans believe in God or a universal spirit, with 71 percent of those surveyed saying they were “absolutely certain” on this score.

Curiously, more than one fifth — 21 percent — of those who counted themselves as atheists said they believed in God while eight percent expressed absolute certainty about this state of affairs.

One thing does seem absolutely certain: at least a few U.S. atheists must be confused.

My “Dictionary of Beliefs and Religions” (Wordsworth Reference Series, 1992) begins its definition of the word “atheism” in the following manner: “The denial of the existence of God or gods.”

One wonders what dyed-in-the-wool atheists like Christopher Hitchens – no confusion about his stance — would say about this lot. Probably nothing very kind.

Among U.S. agnostics, 55 percent professed a belief in God and 17 percent were absolutely certain. The dictionary cited above though says that a defining characteristic of an agnostic is that they “claim ignorance” on such matters and so one wonders how they can be so certain.

America’s high levels of belief and spiritual devotion do set it apart from most affluent nations, a trait that is often commented on. But could it be that its levels of “belief” are also higher among “unbelievers?”

Talk about confusion! What do you think of results like this?
http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/06/23/some-us-atheists-seem-to-be-confused-pew-survey-shows/

philip0906:

So dats how 2 counter?MAn stop screaming d heck about this "apologist" site. . .where did u expect 2 get good answers?Islamic sites?News sites?Atheistic sites? Man stop running around,all u have 2 do is counter(wether copy and paste or not)

The person whose explanations you posted does NOT know what he is talking about he even cited copyist error as a possible explanation amongst so many other rationalizations. . . . How do you expect me to take such a person seriously?. . . . .For a Christian to note the contradictions of the bible, I feel, would be for them to note the fallacy of their religion.

mazaje:

More contradictions and nonsense

Where did Jesus first appear to the eleven disciples?  In a room in Jerusalem.  Luke 24:32-37  On a mountain in Galilee.  Matthew 28:15-17

Even the alleged disciples of Jesus can not even agree on where Jesus first appeared to them after he was raised from the dead according to the story. . . . . .

Matthew's account does not say that this was Jesus' first appearance. It is certainly possible that Matthew simply passes over the earlier appearances and focuses on the call to go into Galilee. In fact, notice how Matthew's account is not exhaustive. In 28:16, he mentions that Jesus had indicated what mountain in Galilee the disciples were to go to, yet he does not mention this when he quotes Jesus in verse 10.

mazaje:

The person whose explanations you posted does NOT know what he is talking about he even cited copyist error as a possible explanation amongst so many other rationalizations. . . . How do you expect me to take such a person seriously?. . . . .For a Christian to note the contradictions of the bible, I feel, would be for them to note the fallacy of their religion.

D'u read at all?in ur hurry 2 pose question,u forget 2 read well. . .Take a look at what was said
3. Copyist mistake, but the Syriac and Persian versions have no prophet listed and all the Greek versions do
The bolded def answers d "question". . .It did not just end in saying "copyist mistake" it expantiates further

philip0906:

[size=28pt]Some U.S. atheists seem to be confused, Pew survey shows[/size]


There seems to be some confusion among self-described U.S. atheists, at least according to the second part of the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life’s monumental “U.S. Religious Landscape Survey” that was issued today.

It found that 92 percent of Americans believe in God or a universal spirit, with 71 percent of those surveyed saying they were “absolutely certain” on this score.

Curiously, more than one fifth — 21 percent — of those who counted themselves as atheists said they believed in God while eight percent expressed absolute certainty about this state of affairs.

One thing does seem absolutely certain: at least a few U.S. atheists must be confused.

My “Dictionary of Beliefs and Religions” (Wordsworth Reference Series, 1992) begins its definition of the word “atheism” in the following manner: “The denial of the existence of God or gods.”

One wonders what dyed-in-the-wool atheists like Christopher Hitchens – no confusion about his stance — would say about this lot. Probably nothing very kind.

Among U.S. agnostics, 55 percent professed a belief in God and 17 percent were absolutely certain. The dictionary cited above though says that a defining characteristic of an agnostic is that they “claim ignorance” on such matters and so one wonders how they can be so certain.

America’s high levels of belief and spiritual devotion do set it apart from most affluent nations, a trait that is often commented on. But could it be that its levels of “belief” are also higher among “unbelievers?”

Talk about confusion! What do you think of results like this?
http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/06/23/some-us-atheists-seem-to-be-confused-pew-survey-shows/

. . . . .It seems you are tired of copying and pasting explanations for biblical errors and contradictions. . . .

Ok here are more biblical errors and contradictions. . . . .

Whom did they see at the tomb?

MAT 28:2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.

MAT 28:3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:
MAT 28:4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.
MAT 28:5 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.

MAR 16:5 And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man [/b]sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment; and they were affrighted.

LUK 24:4 And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, [b]two men stood by them [/b]in shining garments:

JOH 20:12 [b]And seeth two angels in white sitting, the one at the head, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.

philip0906:

Matthew's account does not say that this was Jesus' first appearance. It is certainly possible that Matthew simply passes over the earlier appearances and focuses on the call to go into Galilee. In fact, notice how Matthew's account is not exhaustive. In 28:16, he mentions that Jesus had indicated what mountain in Galilee the disciples were to go to, yet he does not mention this when he quotes Jesus in verse 10.

No it is NOT possible at all. That is just nonsense apologetics from you or the apologist you copied from. . . .If you read the verse you will VERY clearly see that it was talking about Jesus first appearance to his disciples in the book of Matthew.


Mat 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.
Mat 28:17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: [size=18pt]but some doubted[/size].

If it wasn't his first appearance why did some of the 11 disciples doubt? If he had appeared to them earlier, they wouldn't doubt him, will they? Stop making your own gospels by lying to yourself, just accept what was written down and stop making excuses for the nonsense that was written down by UNKNOWN men. . .  . .

mazaje:

No it is NOT possible at all. That is just nonsense apologetics from you or the apologist you copied from. . . .If you read the verse you will VERY clearly see that it was talking about Jesus first appearance to his disciples in the book of Matthew.


Mat 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.
Mat 28:17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.

If it wasn't his first appearance why did some of the 11 disciples doubt? If he had appeared to them earlier, they wouldn't doubt him, will they? Stop making your own gospels by lying to yourself, just accept what was written down and stop making excuses for the nonsense that was written down by UNKNOWN men. . .  . .

Yes they could have doubted him.If they could physically see Jesus and still doubt him,someone they had been with all their life.Jesus even had 2 show them his palms to clear their doubt in John20:20"and when he said so,he showed them his hands and his side.Then were the disciples glad when they saw d Lord". . .So its very clear,dat his physical appearance did not convince them,not until he showed them his hands and side

philip0906:

Yes they could have doubted him.If they could physically see Jesus and still doubt him,someone they had been with all their life.Jesus even had 2 show them his palms to clear their doubt in John20:20"and when he said so,he showed them his hands and his side.Then were the disciples glad when they saw d Lord". . .So its very clear,dat his physical appearance did not convince them,not until he showed them his hands and side

We are talking about his first appearance, if they had seen him before as your apologist will want us to believe then some of the 11 would not have doubted him because he had appeared to them before, no?

mazaje,

If what you are very certain that what you hold on to will take you to your destination, why do you waste time searching for 'presumed errors' contained in a gospel you do not believe in? Why don't you instead sell us what you've got? Share your 'ways' with us and see if it'll may be make sense to us! Tell us what makes you tick; tell us what you live for!

seyibrown:

mazaje,

If what you are very certain that what you hold on to will take you to your destination, why do you waste time searching for 'presumed errors' contained in a gospel you do not believe in? Why don't you instead sell us what you've got? Share your 'ways' with us and see if it'll may be make sense to us! Tell us what makes you tick; tell us what you live for!

Man,I'm tired o.Muslims,atheists et al attack the BEST SELLING BOOK of all time looking 4 errors. . .I have always wondered 2 y these atheists,can't sell us what they've got.All they do 4 a life,is attack d Bible they don't believe either and don't want 2 believe.

seyibrown:

mazaje,

If what you are very certain that what you hold on to will take you to your destination, why do you waste time searching for 'presumed errors' contained in a gospel you do not believe in?

Didn't see where philip claimed that there are no contradiction in the bible? All I did was show him that there are so many and I went ahead and listed just a few. . . . . . .

Why don't you instead sell us what you've got? Share your 'ways' with us and see if it'll may be make sense to us! Tell us what makes you tick; tell us what you live for!

I don't have a way, nothing makes me tick and I live for so many things. . . . . . .

philip0906:

Man,I'm tired o.Muslims,atheists et al attack the BEST SELLING BOOK of all time looking 4 errors. . .I have always wondered 2 y these atheists,can't sell us what they've got.All they do 4 a life,is attack d Bible they don't believe either and don't want 2 believe.

So what if the bible is the best selling book of all time? How does that make its assertions any better than that of the Koran or Harry Porter?. . .By the way a lot of Christians also attack the Koran a book they don't also believe in,no?