Why is it that northerners don't bear names like Sikiru, Wasiu, Rasheed, Raji, Rilwan, Saheed, Moshood (Masoud) or do they, in another form?

Yorubas bear Haruna, northerner bear Haroun
Yorubas bear Ahmed, northerners bear Ahmad
Yorubas bear Nosiru, northerners bear Nasir
Yorubas bear Amodu, northerners bear Ahmadu
Yorubas bear Muritala, northerners bear Murtala
Yorubas bear Tafa, northerners bear Mustapha

Yorubas bear Rasaki, middle belters bear Razak
Yorubas bear Ramoni, middle belters bear Rahman

Conversely, Yorubas don't bear Musa, Abubakar, Abdullahi


PS
Discussion started here

https://www.nairaland.com/5154033/akin-alabi-says-man-rejected#77861934

Their northern Muslim's claims are....

They are fake Muslim's.

Born2Breed:
Their masters claims are....

Our slaves are fake Muslim's.

I believe there's more to it than this ethnic bashing stuff.


I am looking forward to an intellectual discourse on the subject matter.

johnie:


I believe there's more to it than this ethnic bashing stuff.


I am looking forward to an intellectual discourse on the subject matter.

This is not ethnic bashing but the fact. My maiguard don't go to Yoruba mosques,his claims are they are fake Muslim's.

He even make mention of how different their Arabic names are.

Born2Breed:


This is not ethnic bashing but the fact. My maiguard don't go to Yoruba mosques,his claims are they are fake Muslim's.

He even make mention of how different their Arabic names are.

A Spaniard or Portugese bears Francisco while a Frenchman bears Francois.

An Englishman bears Christian and a Portuguese bears Cristiano

An Englishman bears John, a Dutchman bears Johannes

A Frenchman bears Marc while a German bears Markus

Does that make any of them fake Christians or slaves?

You choose to use your mai guard as the source for your intellectual discourse?

johnie:


A Spaniard or Portugese bears Francisco while a Frenchman bears Francois.

An Englishman bears Christian and a Portuguese bears Cristiano

An Englishman bears John, a Dutchman bears Johannes

A Frenchman bears Marc while a German bears Markus

Does that make any of them fake Christians or slaves?

You choose to use your mai guard as the source for your intellectual discourse?

Lol.
Before you start blabbing about intellectualism and then sounding unintelligent. My maiguard is a 62yrs old Muslim scholar refered to as Malam, he has mini makaranta where he teaches other maiguard kids/teens in my locality.

Majority of Muslims reads the Quran from the original language Arabic. Unlike the Christians whose Bible are translated to several languages. Why change Yeshua to Jesu if the only Bible version I've read is in Hebrew.

I am not a Muslim but this is what I think make the difference. Yoruba muslims usually "yorubanize" their Islamic name in pronunciation and spelling . For instance, Mustapha becomes Tafa, Ahmed becomes Amedu, Abdul becomes Abudu and so on.


Hope this makes sense to you, Op

Born2Breed:


Lol.
Before you start blabbing about intellectualism and then sounding unintelligent. My maiguard is a 62yrs old Muslim scholar refered to as Malam, he has mini makaranta where he teaches other maiguard kids/teens in my locality.

Would it surprise you if a Professor at Pat Utomi's privately owned and run Pan Atlantic University says the products of government-owned universities are half baked intellectuals?

And a UNILAG professor of Law says law graduates from private universities are half baked?

Born2Breed:

Majority of Muslims reads the Quran from the original language Arabic. Unlike the Christians whose Bible are translated to several languages. Why change Yeshua to Jesu if the only Bible version I've read is in Hebrew.

What's the point here?

North Africans bear Rachida while Yorubas bear Rashida

Senegalese women bear names like

Abibatou

Absatou

Aïcha

Aïssatou

Alimatou


While Yorubas bear equivalents such as

Habibatu

Hafusatu

Haishatu

Halimotu

And their northern counterparts bear

Hafsat

Aisha

Halimat

Aminat

Does intonation and accent then make one fake and the other original?

Born2Breed:


This is not ethnic bashing but the fact. My maiguard don't go to Yoruba mosques,his claims are they are fake Muslim's.

He even make mention of how different their Arabic names are.

The feeling is mutual bro. A Yoruba Muslim would not go to an hausa mosque too because he sees them as inferiors. That's the way Islam is structured. Tribalism in Islam is well established from the Arab to Africans. It has nothing to do with this subject at hand.

To the op, this is a no brainer. Yorubas pronounce their word with Yoruba pronunciation. Same way Samuel is Saamu.

johnie:


Would it surprise you if a Professor at Pat Utomi's privately owned and run Pan Atlantic University says the products of a government-owned universities are half baked intellectuals?

And a UNILAG professor of Law says law graduates from private universities are half baked?




What's the point here?

North Africans bear Rachida while Yorubas bear Rashida

Senegalese women bear names like

Abibatou

Absatou

Aïcha

Aïssatou

Alimatou


While Yorubas bear equivalents such as

Habibatu

Hafusatu

Haishatu

Halimotu

And their northern counterparts bear

Hafsat

Aisha

Halimat

Aminat

Does intonation and accent then make one fake and the other original?

You are discussing an intellectual matter with an iboman whose only reasoning in life is hate and bigotry. Don't expect an intelligent conversation. That's the way they are.

molybdenum0012:
I am not a Muslim but this is what I think make the difference. Yoruba muslims usually "yorubanize" their Islamic name in pronunciation and spelling . For instance, Mustapha becomes Tafa, Ahmed becomes Amedu, Abdul becomes Abudu and so on.


Hope this makes sense to you, Op

Thanks for your input.

My question really is that some names people bear in some regions are not borne in others.

E.g.

Masoud is a common name in Egypt. You would find it in Yoruba as Moshood.

I am yet to come across a northerner bearing the name.

Same goes for Rachid (Rasheed), Saeed (Saheed), Majeed (Mojid), , Wasiu.

If you anyone knows any prominent northerner bearing these names, list them here:

Rachid
Saeed
Waleed
Masoud
Wasiu


Similarly, if anyone knows any prominent Yoruba bearing the following names (which are common in North Africa), list them here

Abdullahi
Abubakar
Musa

Note that I said northerner. Abubakar and Abdurahman are names common to northerners and middle belters but not Yorubas.

schoolboij:


You are discussing an intellectual matter with an iboman whose only reasoning in life is hate and bigotry. Don't expect an intelligent conversation. That's the way they are.

She is not ibo.

She is from Edo.

johnie:


She is not ibo.

She is from Edo.

Lol. You've been fooled. They hide under the SS names to dish out their hate and propaganda.

schoolboij:



Lol. You've been fooled. They hide under the SS names to dish out their hate and propaganda.

Not in this case.

However, let's not give her the pleasure of derailing the thread with ethnic bashing stuff.

1.Abubakar bukola saraki 2.bolaji abdullahi.3.saidu dakin-gari 4.Abdulrashid maina. So the issue of the likes of wasiu rasheed etc are names of allah so you need the prefix of "abdul" meaning "servant"before calling them eg. Abdulrahman(servant of the merciful) and a northerner will prefer calling you "abdul" alone than rashid or wasiu. And about the issue of differences in going to mosques. Same way christians have denominations they exist in islam and again we have four school of thoughts in islam. I BEAR WITNESS THAT THERE IS NO GOD EXCEPT ALLAH AND THAT MUHAMMAD IS HIS SERVANT AND MESSENGER

johnie:
Why is it that northerners don't bear names like Sikiru, Wasiu, Rasheed, Raji, Rilwan, Saheed, Moshood (Masoud) or do they, in another form?

Yorubas bear Haruna, northerner bear Haroun
Yorubas bear Ahmed, northerners bear Ahmad
Yorubas bear Nosiru, northerners bear Nasir
Yorubas bear Amodu, northerners bear Ahmadu
Yorubas bear Muritala, northerners bear Murtala
Yorubas bear Tafa, northerners bear Mustapha

Yorubas bear Rasaki, middle belters bear Razak
Yorubas bear Ramoni, middle belters bear Rahman

Conversely, Yorubas don't bear Musa, Abubakar, Abdullahi


PS
Discussion started here

https://www.nairaland.com/5154033/akin-alabi-says-man-rejected#77861934

Who told u dat Yorubas do not bear d names Musa,Abubakar and Abdullah?.I know Yoruba people bearing those names

you4me:
1.Abubakar bukola saraki 2.bolaji abdullahi.3.saidu dakin-gari 4.Abdulrashid maina. So the issue of the likes of wasiu rasheed etc are names of allah so you need the prefix of "abdul" meaning "servant"before calling them eg. Abdulrahman(servant of the merciful) and a northerner will prefer calling you "abdul" alone than rashid or wasiu. And about the issue of differences in going to mosques. Same way christians have denominations they exist in islam and again we have four school of thoughts in islam. I BEAR WITNESS THAT THERE IS NO GOD EXCEPT ALLAH AND THAT MUHAMMAD IS HIS SERVANT AND MESSENGER

The first two people you mentioned are from Kwara State (middle belt) a buffer state between North and South. The Sarakis don't normally identify as Yorubas.

Mention any prominent Yoruba people not related to Kwara/Kogi or states close to those states bearing these names.

I concede Saidu (Saheed) and Rashid to you, though they are not common among northerners.

Wasiu is not a name of Allah. It means diligent or persevering worker.

.

moshuur:

Who told u dat Yorubas do not bear d names Musa,Abubakar and Abdullah?.I know Yoruba people bearing those names

Please mention prominent ones who do as first names.

schoolboij:

The feeling is mutual bro. A Yoruba Muslim would not go to an hausa mosque too because he sees them as inferiors. That's the way Islam is structured. Tribalism in Islam is well established from the Arab to Africans. It has nothing to do with this subject at hand.

To the op, this is a no brainer. Yorubas pronounce their word with Yoruba pronunciation. Same way Samuel is Saamu.

That's a lie sir......Av prayed in a Mosjid dominated by Hausas and I never for once harbour d thought that they are inferior.Being 'superior' than a fellow muslim has nothing to do with tribe,it has to do with things like how much u are conscious of Allah,how knowledgeable u are etc and with that,u must never look at ur self as superior to other Muslims "never" because the person u are looking at as 'inferior',may be better than u in d sight of Allah,and who told u that Allah has accepted ur Ibadats(with this, we do not look at our fellow brothers and Sisters as inferior). Islam,is not tribalist religion.Av u heard of Bilal(he is one of d most respected companion of d prophet) and he is black man living with d Arabs

johnie:


Please mention prominent ones who do as first names.

Am a Muslim, a yoruba ,living in Yoruba land and am telling u dat we bear names like Abdullah etc.If u doubt am,na ur own 'Issue' be that

moshuur:

Am a Muslim, a yoruba ,living in Yoruba land and am telling u dat we bear names like Abdullah etc.If u doubt am,na ur own 'Issue' be that

I don't doubt that some very few do.

U am just wondering why those names are not common.

Adbulalli for instance, would be Abudu.

But not many bear that as a first name compared to moshood, saheed, wasiu, etc.

Thanks

I think I should expatriate on this so folks get a better understanding of my question.

Names like Callistus, Romanus, Alphonsus and Linus are 'Christian' names common in the south east.

Hardly would you find these names among Yoruba Christians.

The simple explanation I have for this is that these names are 'Roman Catholic.'

Yet, there are Roman Catholic names like Anthony, Christopher, Clement, etc that are also common among Yoruba Roman Catholics while the former ones are very rare among Yoruba Roman Catholics.

In the same way, the Muslim names I mentioned above are common among northerners but not among Yorubas and vice versa.

I just came across information about a renowned Islamic scholar who is Yoruba and interestingly bears both Abu (which I presume is a short form of Abubakar) and Abdullah as first names - Sheikh Abu-Abdullah Adelabu.

Adelabu studied Arabic and Islamic Studies in
Damascus, Syria , and acquired a Postgraduate Diploma, Master's degree, and Ph.D.

He was a researcher in Arabic and Islamic Studies in Oxford , Cambridge and London in the late 1990s. A scholar of Islamic and Arabic Studies as well as a linguist, jurist and lecturer.

His academic works and publications include an Arabic English Dictionary, an encyclopedic Dictionary of the Quran and Sunnah, Islam in Africa - West African in Particular, and Missionary and Colonization in Africa.

I will go through some of his works and see if I will find answers there, particularly his works on Islam in Africa and Missionary and Colonisation in Africa.

Already. I am seeing some very Interesting stuff-
Islam first came to Yorubalsnd through itinerant Malian traders (Wangara Traders) around the 14th century.hence Islam in Ancient Yoruba is referred to as Esin Imale (religion of the malians). This was during the reign of the great Mansa Kankan Musa of the Mali Empire, the richest man in history.

Large-scale conversion to Islam happened in the 17th century.

The first Mosque was reportedly built in Ọyọ-Ile in AD 1550 although, there were no Yoruba Muslims, the Mosque only served the spiritual needs of foreign Muslims living in
Ọyọ.

Iwo town got the first indigenous Mosque built in 1655 followed by Iṣẹyin, in 1760; Lagos, 1774; Ṣaki, 1790; and Oṣogbo, 1889.

Islam later spread to other towns like Oyo,, Ibadan, Abẹokuta, Ijẹbu-Ode, Ikirun, and Ẹdẹ.

All these before the 19th-century Usman Dan Fodio jihad.

The bolded below I think is an Overkill !!

johnie:


A Spaniard or Portugese bears Francisco while a Frenchman bears Francois.

An Englishman bears Christian and a Portuguese bears Cristiano

An Englishman bears John, a Dutchman bears Johannes

A Frenchman bears Marc while a German bears Markus

Does that make any of them fake Christians or slaves?

You choose to use your mai guard as the source for your intellectual discourse?

johnie:


Thanks for your input.

My question really is that some names people bear in some regions are not borne in others.

E.g.

Masoud is a common name in Egypt. You would find it in Yoruba as Moshood.

I am yet to come across a northerner bearing the name.

Same goes for Rachid (Rasheed), Saeed (Saheed), Majeed (Mojid), , Wasiu.

If you anyone knows any prominent northerner bearing these names, list them here:

Rachid
Saeed
Waleed
Masoud
Wasiu


Similarly, if anyone knows any prominent Yoruba bearing the following names (which are common in North Africa), list them here

Abdullahi
Abubakar
Musa

Note that I said northerner. Abubakar and Abdurahman are names common to northerners and middle belters but not Yorubas.

Even in the North, Hausa and Fulani version of Muslim names is different to that of Kanuri.

Yoruba language is tonal (melodious), names that are naturally dis-toned are adapted and then toned. This is where the difference largely come from. Because our language is tonal we also look for name rhymes.

Traditionally Yoruba bear names denoting divine cause (amu t'Orunwa) + individual personality (oriki) + circumstance in delivery (abiso) + family pedigree (ebi). Then as a Yoruba child grows his/her physicality will result also in an alias name.

Example-
Divine caused - Ogunmuyiwa
Personality - Aremu
Circumstance - Ojo
Family - Ogunjobi
Alias - Aguntasolo or Ejiwunmi.

For the individual in this example all the names are tonal but Aremu....or even Aremu Ojo is far more rhythmic that say Ogunmuyiwa. Therefore by the time he is in late teens Aremu Ojo would likely have stuck on him than any other in the list.

Yoruba apply this same structure and sense to foreign names.

In the example above the traditional divine cause are being replaced with foreign names such Mohammed, Salam, Michael, Samuel, Aisha, Deborah...

So now remove Ogunmuyiwa from the above example and insert Abubakar or David.

Yoruba are likely to frame it to Aremu Abu and David Ojo respectively.

Sometimes if the divine caused would sound better behind the oriki we will reorder it to fit...as long its rhythym on the tongue is smooth, we dont mind that the name sequence loose their order of priority.

Bola Ahmed, Tunde Rahman...

Female names are treated somewhat differently. Their names are naturally toned and rhythmic.

Halimatu Saadia, Hauwa nanatu.....Yoruba can treat female names like the male ones I gave above. Sariu Abebi, Nimota Akanke, Moriamu Amope.

Also note, Abdul-Hamid or Abdul-Hameed is a name that can be found amongst muslims all across Nigeria but its highest occurrence is among the Oyos....particularly Ibadan! They call it Lamidi. Lamidi Ojo, Lamidi Aremu, Lamidi Akanni, Lamidi Ige.

I dont know if this answered your question but hope it advances the thought a bit towards the goal.

MetaPhysical:

Yoruba language is tonal (melodious), names that are naturally dis-toned are adapted and then toned. This is where the difference largely come from. Because our language is tonal we also look for name rhymes.

Traditionally Yoruba bear names denoting divine cause (amu t'Orunwa) + individual personality (oriki) + circumstance in delivery (abiso) + family pedigree (ebi). Then as a Yoruba child grows his/her physicality will result also in an alias name.

Example-
Divine caused - Ogunmuyiwa
Personality - Aremu
Circumstance - Ojo
Family - Ogunjobi
Alias - Aguntasolo or Ejiwunmi.

For the individual in this example all the names are tonal but Aremu....or even Aremu Ojo is far more rhythmic that say Ogunmuyiwa. Therefore[b] by the time he is in late teens Aremu Ojo would likely have stuck on him than any other in the list. [/b]

Yoruba apply this same structure and sense to foreign names.

In the example above the traditional divine cause are being replaced with foreign names such Mohammed, Salam, Michael, Samuel, Aisha, Deborah...

So now remove Ogunmuyiwa from the above example and insert Abubakar or David.

Yoruba are likely to frame it to Aremu Abu and David Ojo respectively.


Sometimes if the divine caused would sound better behind the oriki we will reorder it to fit...as long its rhythym on the tongue is smooth, we dont mind that the name sequence loose their order of priority.

Bola Ahmed, Tunde Rahman...

Female names are treated somewhat differently. Their names are naturally toned and rhythmic.

Halimatu Saadia, Hauwa nanatu.....Yoruba can treat female names like the male ones I gave above. Sariu Abebi, Nimota Akanke, Moriamu Amope.

Wow!

Thanks.

I found your contribution on as as name toning particularly enlightening.

Name toning explains why a lot of names end with vowels

e.g. Abibu (Habeeb), Moshoodi, (Masoud), Halimatu (Halimat), Samueli(Samuel), Dafidi (David), Jakobu (Jacob/James) etc.

The toning of the Muslim names also explains what has now become known as the H-factor among some Yorubas.

I suppose those who attended Arsbic schools before going to western schools and their subsequent pupils are likely to exhibit the H-factor.

The H-factor is when people add an 'h' before English words where they shouldn't. If you have heard Falz speak as the bad guy, you will 'hunderstand' this.

Your contribution on name breakdown was also helpful:

divine cause (amu t'Orunwa)
individual personality (oriki)
circumstance in delivery (abiso)
family pedigree (ebi).
alias name

Now, I understand something I have tried to find a solid explanation for for a king time - why names like

Haruna Ishola,
Batile Alake,
Kollington Ayinla,
Wasiu Ayinde Barrister,
Sikiru Ayinde Barrister,
Abass Akande Obesere
Salawa Abeni,
Wasiu Alabi Pasuma,
Sule Alao Malaika,
Sefiu Alao

all sound so melodious.

However, I think this applies mainly to Muslims.

If you drew a list of Christian's from the same setting (e.g. juju musicians who are/were mainly christians), you would find that this rule will not hold true.

These Chrirtians have oriki names but didn't/don't use them. Even their Christian names or stylized or completely dropped. Instead, they'd use titles such as Emperor, King, Commander, Sir, etc.

It was this style of using titles that later Fuji musicians like the barristers, pasuma, obesere, malaika picked up.

Traditionally, like you rightly pointed out, people are given a series of names but there is a set that sticks as they grow up.

Too bad we are losing a lot of this culture.

MetaPhysical:


I dont know if this answered your question but hope it advances the thought a bit towards the goal.

Your contribution is very enlightening. It however still begs the question.

Why is it that some names are common in a section of the country but not in others, even though they are from the same religion practised in all those sections?

johnie:


Would it surprise you if a Professor at Pat Utomi's privately owned and run Pan Atlantic University says the products of government-owned universities are half baked intellectuals?

And a UNILAG professor of Law says law graduates from private universities are half baked?




What's the point here?

North Africans bear Rachida while Yorubas bear Rashida

Senegalese women bear names like

Abibatou

Absatou

Aïcha

Aïssatou

Alimatou


While Yorubas bear equivalents such as

Habibatu

Hafusatu

Haishatu

Halimotu

And their northern counterparts bear

Hafsat

Aisha

Halimat

Aminat

Does intonation and accent then make one fake and the other original?

the only difference between the two is accent Yoruba man talk with accent but all of them are right .A Hausa man accent is almost the same with that of the Arab so that maigadi is wrong and just because u are called with malam doesn't mean u are a scholar in Hausa land every one can be called with Mallam period.

labani06:

the only difference between the two is accent Yoruba man talk with accent but all of them are right .A Hausa man accent is almost the same with that of the Arab so that maigadi is wrong and just because u are called with malam doesn't mean u are a scholar in Hausa land every one can be called with Mallam period.

Only reason i can think of for a hausa muslim not going to a yoruba mosque is most yorubas are salafs and most hausas are sunni muslims and staunch sunnis avoid salaf mosques even in the north. Other wise this whole idea that we see yorubas as inferior muslims is a myth. Yes maybe a good percentage of yorubas arent as devout as northern muslims and you may even meet some that visit both mosques and churches but that doesnt disqualify yoruba muslims as a whole as they are sometimes even more religious than northern muslims. Anyone who discriminates mosques based on ethnicity is on his own.

The salaf sunni divide is why you rarely find many yorubas named after Abubakar or any of the caliphs and companions.

As for differences in names, yes northerners tend to stick to the original pronunciations but even then the names arent perfect in many instances, like Adam in arabic is Adamu in hausa. But these deviations are less noticeable because hausa and arabic belong to the same language family.

johnie:

Wow!

Thanks.

I found your contribution on as as name toning particularly enlightening.

Name toning explains why a lot of names end with vowels

e.g. Abibu (Habeeb), Moshoodi, (Masoud), Halimatu (Halimat), Samueli(Samuel), Dafidi (David), Jakobu (Jacob/James) etc.

The toning of the Muslim names also explains what has now become known as the H-factor among some Yorubas.

I suppose those who attended Arsbic schools before going to western schools and their subsequent pupils are likely to exhibit the H-factor.

The H-factor is when people add an 'h' before English words where they shouldn't. If you have heard Falz speak as the bad guy, you will 'hunderstand' this.

Your contribution on name breakdown was also helpful:

divine cause (amu t'Orunwa)
individual personality (oriki)
circumstance in delivery (abiso)
family pedigree (ebi).
alias name

Now, I understand something I have tried to find a solid explanation for for a king time - why names like

Haruna Ishola,
Batile Alake,
Kollington Ayinla,
Wasiu Ayinde Barrister,
Sikiru Ayinde Barrister,
Abass Akande Obesere
Salawa Abeni,
Wasiu Alabi Pasuma,
Sule Alao Malaika,
Sefiu Alao

all sound so melodious.

However, I think this applies mainly to Muslims.

If you drew a list of Christian's from the same setting (e.g. juju musicians who are/were mainly christians), you would find that this rule will not hold true.

These Chrirtians have oriki names but didn't/don't use them. Even their Christian names or stylized or completely dropped. Instead, they'd use titles such as Emperor, King, Commander, Sir, etc.

It was this style of using titles that later Fuji musicians like the barristers, pasuma, obesere, malaika picked up.

Traditionally, like you rightly pointed out, people are given a series of names but there is a set that sticks as they grow up.

Too bad we are losing a lot of this culture.




Your contribution is very enlightening. It however still begs the question.

Why is it that some names are common in a section of the country but not in others, even though they are from the same religion practised in all those sections?

Thanks OP.

This is all I can offer you on the subject. I know someone that could have helped but I learnt he travelled to remote area. Give shout to imperial Yoruba and see if he has idea.

This might surprise you but there are many Yoruba names that are hard to tell who the original owner is.
Abubakar - Bakare. (Bukar in Kanuri)
Badhmus - Badamosi or Gbadamosi
Al Amin - Lamina
Dawud - Dawuda
Al Awiy - Alawiye
Mustafa - Tafa
Adam - Adamo

Abubakar is actually Abubakar Sadiq. Yoruba call it Abu Sondoko.

In christianity
Peter - Apata
Gabriel - Gebu
Solomon - Salome