UceeGod:


Let me repeat it again, so you may get it;

Jesus' response "I am" simply means He was the God of the old testament. There is no doubt that the Jews understood what He was saying because they took up stones to kill Him for making Himself equal with God ( John 5:18 ). Such a statement, if not true, was blasphemy and the punishment prescribed by the Mosaic Law was death ( Leviticus 24:11–14 ). But Jesus committed no blasphemy; He was and is God, the second Person of the Godhead, equal to the Father in every way.

Janosky:


The words of Jesus "The Father is greater than I ( John 14:28 & John 7:16 ) talk say your comment is off point.

** "Jews tried all the harder to kill
Jesus not only was he breaking the Sabbath, he was even CALLING GOD HIS OWN FATHER, (John5:18) "making himself equal with God" was a lie , an allegation framed by the Jews in order to kill Jesus.

*** "Why do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said ;" I am God's son?"(John 10:36.)

jcross19:
go and read the book of revelation , tell me who is the God and the lamb ?

Janosky:


[s]According to your first paragraph above," you ignored the fact that God is one" UceeGod LIED .
"Hear O Isreal; Yahweh our God is one Yahweh" Deu 6:4. ( See the hebrew interlinear transcription of Deu6:4).
Yahweh is the Most High God (Ps83:18) and the only true God (John17:3) if you clearly understand English, you know what it means.

** Your very last sentence, 2nd paragraph "Both are equally God".
Man is a god ,(Ps 82:1,6 kJV), Jesus is a god (John 10:34-36.) angels are gods in heaven, 1Cor8:5 , Jesus himself nailed the coffin on your fictitious claims in John 17:3 and Rev 3:5,12,14,21.
Eph 1:3. 3:14,15 Only Yahweh is the only true God to whom everyone in heaven and earth owes it's name.
Jesus said Yahweh granted life to him,( Jesus) Yahweh's son- John 5:26.

Receive sense.[/s]

herlecks:
This is how humans fall into error, when they have no scriptural backup for their "ideas." I'll be discussing scriptures alone, not your thoughts. I gave you scriptures but you're hellbent on your ideas which does not really matter to me. If you will not believe the verses in my reply to your comment then nothing will convince you of the truth. You will do well to wait on God and pray for revelation.

Emusan:


Your problem is that, you don't hold your own word as true, if not you'll see that this is not my own idea but what you said and agree with.

1. You agreed The word of God is God Himself...
2. Jesus is the Word of God...then isn't Jesus God?
3. You said the word of God was begotten from ETERNITY...isn't only God eternal?
4. You said the word has the quality and personality of God. Doesn't that make the word God? Can something has the quality and personality of human being and yet not Human Being?

Isn't our quality and personality as Human that makes us human?

Reconsider your points and see there is no need for this thread.

herlecks:
Jesus is not the Father but the Son. Jesus is a God who has a God.

Agrogbeide:
From this statement can we conclude Christians have 2 Gods? Yes or No.

herlecks:
Jesus is not the Father but the Son.

Jesus is a God who has a God. The term "God" is not a person but an essence. Anybody could be called "god," humans, angels and demons were called gods,

so does that make them all the Father?

If scripture calls Jesus God, this only defines His essence not his person,

His person has a Father and a God.

Why do you continue to argue against scripture? Jesus says He has a God and a Father, you folks say Jesus is a liar, that He Himself is the Father and the God.

So then who is lost in error? Bro, I can't make you see this, but I believe if you prayerfully humble yourself before God, you will receive a revelation of the Son of God. For upon this revelation was the Church built, so if anyone does not believe that Jesus is the Son of God and not God Himself, such does not belong to thr Church of Christ to begin with.

Emusan:
I even thought you know what you're arguing about before but unfortunately you know nothing my advice for you is to go and read what Trinity entails first before you come online.



Then who says Jesus is the Father before



The point is, do demons, angels and human have the essence of the Father?



It has been explained to you by @isce with a picture that Jesus is not the Father.



So you agree Jesus and His Father are equal in essence and not as person...so is that not what Trinity said?



Where does Trinitarian deny this?



This statement shows that you don't know shit about Trinity, yet you're forming Mr know it all.



You're the very one in error.

Trinitarian teaches that Jesus is the Son of God and God in essence but not the Father likewise Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God and God in essence but not the Son neither the Father.

You can see that you agree with Trinity yet erroneously arguing against what you agree with.

You've lost on your own thread.

herlecks:
Bro, this is not a fight, ease up. And that's a worldly mentality, thinking here is about winning or losing some nonsensical argument. I'm here to open eyes, expose the common erroneous beliefs, but not everyone will see, that's sure. Even the Lord Jesus couldn't convert the whole of Israel.

See, you are either confused or deceived, and it could be as a result of yielding grounds to demons. If Jesus has "a God," that cancels out trinity doctrine. Do you understand what it means to call someone "my God?"

This proves the Father receiving worship and prayer from the Son.

Well, the angels have the essence of God, then they are all equal with the Father? That's folly, and not biblical. For God is Spirit, that is the essence. Humans have spirit also, that makes us equal with God? We even have His spirit, then we're all equal with God.

When the brilliant mind tries to explain scripture it falls into a ditch, for scripture is not interpreted by brilliance, but by revelation of the spirit. What will become of this generation if the so called leaders and ministers of tomorrow continues to explain scripture with their shallow minds and not by revelation? They would rather depend on the common filthy lies passed down through the years rather than search the scripture and dig the truth out. Hence, they pass folly and error unto their children, and so the cycle continues for ages.

I repeat, on the revelation of the Son of God was the Church built, if anyone does not believe Jesus to be the Son of God, and not God nor equal with God, such is not part of the Body of Christ, which is His Church.

Emusan:


You want to open eyes, yes your own eyes are blind. You don't know the meaning and what Trinity entails, yes you want to open their eyes. Isn't that delusion?




Let's go by your own logic, you agree that Jesus is God, then isn't Jesus your own God

Thomas called Jesus "My God" do you know more than him




Then it also means the Son receives worship and prayers from his disciples.




When I said you know nothing it seems I'm over exaggerating but see what you just spew here.

Imagine, God is Spirit, that is the essence.

Give us the meaning of essence and see how folly you are.




Even when you don't understand what you yourself is talking about.



Did the Trinitarians tell you they don't believe Jesus is the son of God

before you proceed, give us the description of what Trinity is all about, let's compare it with your claim here.

Lastly, it glaring how you intentionally boycotting most of my points without addressing them.

herlecks:
One God, the Father, and the Son of God. You folks are still confused. The term "God" is not anyone's name, it is just an essence to represent a spiritual or divine being, as there are many gods. Even humans are gods. The true person of our God whom we all worship is the Father or the Ancient of Days or the Father of Spirits, and the person of His Son is the Word of God or the Faithful and True or the Amen.

Maximus69:
Language and culture has caused a lot of confusion on the event recorded at John 20:28.
In most cultures around the world, when people see what is far beyond their grasp they often say 'my God!' 'oh my God!' 'my God and my Lord'. For instance i could remember vividly during the late 80s when my grandma {from the village} came visiting us, she was watching American wrestling for the first time in her life and at the way the wrestlers were treating each other she exclaimed 'My Lord and My God!' Of course she couldn't have meant that any of those wrestlers are her God or Lord but out of amazement she couldn't hold her peace anymore!
So Thomas' case is exactly the same, he never meant that Jesus is to be worshiped in place of Jehovah!

Isce:


Matthew 2:11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.

Please start opening your eyes, except if you have an agenda

Maximus69:
Language and culture has caused a lot of confusion on the event recorded at John 20:28.
In most cultures around the world,

when people see what is far beyond their grasp they often say 'my God!' 'oh my God!' 'my God and my Lord'. For instance i could remember vividly during the late 80s when my grandma {from the village} came visiting us, she was watching American wrestling for the first time in her life and at the way the wrestlers were treating each other she exclaimed 'My Lord and My God!' Of course she couldn't have meant that any of those wrestlers are her God or Lord but out of amazement she couldn't hold her peace anymore!
So Thomas' case is exactly the same, he never meant that Jesus is to be worshiped in place of Jehovah!

Agrogbeide:
OK according to your understanding of the book of revelation, are we going to see God and Lamb when we get to heaven?

cc Jcross19, herlecks, Janosky

Agrogbeide:
OK according to your understanding of the book of revelation, are we going to see God and Lamb when we get to heaven?

cc Jcross19, herlecks, Janosky

Maximus69:
Hmmm, you're right there!
But did you noticed that those merchants were sent by Satan? They came from the East, meaning from Babylon! When the Bible talks of wise men from the east, that means astrologers who usually read STARS and practice OMEN!
So their mission wasn't for good but for evil and whatever they did is not to be taken as something worth emulating!

Emusan:
This deluded JWs is here again



If you're talking about culture and language, then you shouldn't have come with this useless point of view because it exposes your ignorance the more because a Jew will never mistakenly address anyone with "My God and My Lord"!




Give us another instance in the scripture where someone else mistakenly address another as My God.

The truth is Jesus was called "My God" and scripture recorded it but what excuse did JWs have?

It was just an exclamation!

Forgotten that Jesus addressed Thomas first before Thomas replied Jesus not something that happened suddenly with fear. Well who am I to tell you other wise what GB has planted in your skull.

Maximus69:
Hmmm, [s]you're right there!
But did you noticed that those merchants were sent by Satan? They came from the East, meaning from Babylon! When the Bible talks of wise men from the east, that means astrologers who usually read STARS and practice OMEN!
So their mission wasn't for good but for evil and whatever they did is not to be taken as something worth emulating[/s]!

Isce:


Matthew 2:12 And being warned of God in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way.

Sent by Satan, warn by God, must have been difficult for them

Maximus69:
Thank you Sir, it's just the truth that's all. Thomas never meant Jesus is his God or Lord,but you're entitled to your own opinion just as every one else!
Thomas was shocked that's all and when people are shocked, they'll exclaim 'oh my God!' of course it doesn't mean that what they are viewing is their God Sir!

Maximus69:
Thank you Sir, it's just the truth that's all. Thomas never meant Jesus is his God or Lord,but you're entitled to your own opinion just as every one else!
Thomas was shocked that's all and when people are shocked, they'll exclaim 'oh my God!' of course it doesn't mean that what they are viewing is their God Sir!

Agrogbeide:
you are very funny bro.
KJV:And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
27
KJV:Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28
KJV:And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
29
KJV:Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
Now read the above again but this time slowly and gently.

Emusan:


"Well, eight days later his disciples were again indoors, and Thomas was with them. Jesus came, although the doors were locked, and he stood in their midst and said: “May you have peace.” Next he said to Thomas: “Put your finger here, and see my hands, and take your hand and stick it into my side, and stop doubting but believe.” In answer Thomas said to him: “My Lord and my God!”
Jesus said to him: “Because you have seen me, have you believed? Happy are those who have not seen and yet believe.” John 20:26-28 NWT

What can we deduce from here?
1. Jesus first erased their fear by saying "May you have peace" only JWs will say this statement means something else.

4. Jesus didn't condemn him nor correct him rather placed a blessing on those who will believe without seeing him.

Emusan:


He won't read it because what you see him saying has been planted in his head by JWs GB.

Maximus69:
Thank you Sir, it's just the truth that's all. Thomas never meant Jesus is his God or Lord,but you're entitled to your own opinion just as every one else!
Thomas was shocked that's all and when people are shocked, they'll exclaim 'oh my God!' of course it doesn't mean that what they are viewing is their God Sir!

Agrogbeide:
How can you explain the concept of the Trinity to a first time believer? Be concise and precise.
Thanks.
God bless.

Emusan:



The truth is Jesus was called "My God" and scripture recorded it but what excuse did JWs have?

It was just an exclamation!

Agrogbeide:
KJV:For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isaiah 9:6