But he said islam is 'purer' why would you want to be in something thats not 'pure'?

I said that because I notice a lot of splits in christianity. Lot of churches split up and create new church. It's like there is a church for every kind of lifestyle especially in uk.

Wait a minute, does it mean that there are no splits in the religion (Islam) that you are trying to 'explore'? Ok for you to say so with your wishful thinking, but how do you explain the rift between Muslims in Iraq today? And in Islamabad, Pakistan? And the recent attempts by 'Muslims' to bomb their own oil wells in Saudi Arabia? Christians have often been on the receiving end for all kinds of runaway accusations of your design, but no church in the UK is bombing oil wells or bombing and killing fellow Christians, are there?

chrisd, it's all well and good to turn on fellow Christians and blame them for almost anything you can think of, from sex scandal to acting like lunatics to being capitalists, etc. But remember that God will require one thing from you on Judgement Day: your faithfulness to Jesus Christ. You well remember that anything you do and say against any church or Christian is tantamount to doing exactly the same thing to Jesus Christ, don't you?

"And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto Me." (Matt.25:40).

I understand your point. Perhaps it's because I live in London and am more aware of those things. Hey, I know great people from all denominations too. Would like they unite bit more. Yeah I suppose they get against each other but I think Islam as religion and rules applies across the board. There seems is going to be another split for homosexuals having homosexual sexual activities to become pastors. I don't think it's what the Bible says. In a way Muslims do allow that, yeah they can be bit more radical. Here people talk only on right and not much on their responsibilities. That's only my opinion.

chrisd:

I understand your point. Perhaps it's because I live in London and am more aware of those things. Hey, I know great people from all denominations too. Would like they unite bit more. Yeah I suppose they get against each other but I think Islam as religion and rules applies across the board. There seems is going to be another split for homosexuals having homosexual sexual activities to become pastors. I don't think it's what the Bible says. In a way Muslims do allow that, yeah they can be bit more radical. Here people talk only on right and not much on their responsibilities. That's only my opinion.

Chrisd,

I live in london too and i'm aware of those things but you have to make a choice. You can let all the hypocrites affect your faith and be drawing people to islam instead of christianity or you can just live a Jesus-like life and know in hearts or hearts what God is going to do to all them hypocrites. Its your choice?

Softee:

Chrisd,

I live in london too and i'm aware of those things but you have to make a choice. You can let all the hypocrites affect your faith and be drawing people to islam instead of christianity or you can just live a Jesus-like life and know in hearts or hearts what God is going to do to all them hypocrites. Its your choice?

I guess you find it strange for someone to intellectually challenge what may seem no to be right. I wonder why you sound like you don't want him to draw people to Islam. He cannot draw people to Islam from his statements. He'll only make people to think deeper about what they believe in, reasearch a bit further and then make choice based on their findings. I'm a muslim, but I don't evade or dodge challenges, 'cos it'll make no sense at all if I'm following a faith which cannot be challenged intellectually.
If God wants us not to use our brains, we would all be on earth doing the same things the same way, what a dull world that would be.

@ChrisD,
You are always welcome anytime to ask questions about Islam that may seem doubtul to you. Once again I'll state that you do not need Holy spirit to understand the message of Islam. it's simple, practical, realistic and very just.

9ijaMan:

Once again I'll state that you do not need Holy spirit to understand the message of Islam. it's simple, practical, realistic and very just.

All one may ever need to understand the Qur'an may be some logic, but when you often make reference to the effect that one does not need the Holy Spirit to undertand the message of Islam, you sound like He's not important in matters of faith. If you're stating that (as you have done in several other threads), would one not draw the logical conclusion that you're trying to downplay the role of the Holy Spirit? You should note that by relegating the Holy Spirit this way, you fail to even recognise the respected role accorded him in the Qur'an. There's no need to often go to such lengths to make such statements, even if you are averse to Christianity.

Once again I'll state that you do not need Holy spirit to understand the message of Islam. it's simple, practical, realistic and very just.[color=#990000][/color]

It is statements like these that make me feel a christian should not be learning islam. I don't think you have any idea what you are talking about, chrisd is a christian and you talking bad about his faith isn't really a smart move, thats if he sees it that way. Also, you don't need the holy spirit to learn the message of christ. The Holy spirit is a HELPER. The holy spirit guides your life as a christian. So before you start making statements, at least make sure they are true.

May God bless you.

choice.A:

All one may ever need to understand the Qur'an may be some logic, but when you often make reference to the effect that one does not need the Holy Spirit to undertand the message of Islam, you sound like He's not important in matters of faith. If you're stating that (as you have done in several other threads), would one not draw the logical conclusion that you're trying to downplay the role of the Holy Spirit? You should note that by relegating the Holy Spirit this way, you fail to even recognise the respected role accorded him in the Qur'an. There's no need to often go to such lengths to make such statements, even if you are averse to Christianity.

I quite agree with you that I may not necessarily have to make such a statement. But I still stand by it. Your submissions in other threads on issues relating to religion have defied every form of reasoning and logic. How would you wnat someone to understand what you are trying to pass across when all you do is to go round circles and making statements which are more confusing than enlightening.
In various threads as well I've seen majority of the xtian's submission also requiring one to have the holy spirit (or spirit of God) in him to understand the Bible. In Isalm we don't worship the Holy spirit like you xtians do (remember He's part of your trinity). So I have no recourse to go to the Holy spirit b4 I can make common sense out a Holy book. If you xtians need holy spirirt to under stand ur bible, Muslims have no need for the holy spirit which u refer to, in order for us to get the message of the Qur'an.

Softee:

Once again I'll state that you do not need Holy spirit to understand the message of Islam. it's simple, practical, realistic and very just.[color=#990000][/color]

It is statements like these that make me feel a christian should not be learning islam. I don't think you have any idea what you are talking about, chrisd is a christian and you talking bad about his faith isn't really a smart move, thats if he sees it that way. Also, you don't need the holy spirit to learn the message of christ. The Holy spirit is a HELPER. The holy spirit guides your life as a christian. So before you start making statements, at least make sure they are true.

May God bless you.

That's the point here. If you need the holy spirit to gudie you thru the Bible. All I need to read the Qur'an is an open mind and pray for God's Guidance. Softee, I've told you not to be too emotional when you want to engage in an intellectual debate.

I apologise if this sounds derogatory. But it's the truth and I'm not afraid to say it the way it is.

I'm not here to promote anything. If I wanted to do that I would have becomea preacher or pastor. Am here to talk about things.

The strongest criticism I level at some christian churches centers on two theories: one, the experience is tongues -centered, and two, the experience is Spirit -centered. The two have in common, of course, the inference that the source and focus of the baptism and its attendant gifts are something (or someone) other than Jesus. Let us take a look at whether or not these two charges are accurate.

I see today that tongues -speaking has become an end in itself, and the central teaching, and seeks to convert people to tongues instead of to Christ. Don't tell me no, and that it is not true, been to churches before and it's always the same thing. And most pastors mission here is not to lead souls to Christ but is to evangelize the gift of tongues.

The implication is that what many believe to be a work of God is in fact the work of carnal man based on incomprehensible gibberish. This reminds us that tongues for tongues sake is a dangerous and deplorable doctrine. It might be compared to putting more importance on the ringing of the doorbell than the guest at the door. Christians who wish to enter into this dimension of power and service should understand that the evidence of tongues is a mere external sign of a dynamic interior work being wrought by the Spirit. Anyone desiring to be used to edify the Body with an utterance of tongues should understand that the most important gift is the one needed at the moment, and the gift of tongues, per se, is no more important than any of God s charismata. Uppermost in our minds should be the desire to serve and honor God. Servanthood and God-centeredness are the hallmarks of Christianity, charismatic or otherwise.

From the beginning of the twentieth-century, leaders have instructed those receiving the gift not to become infatuated with tongues but to preach Jesus. Pentecostal Joe E. Campbell was acutely aware of the dangers when he titled his book Warning! Do Not Seek for Tongues. And his chapter titled Something Far More Important than Speaking in Tongues establishes love as the motive spring from which all gifts of the Spirit should proceed.

Have read parts of the Qur'an. It's not against God to be inquisitive and question. Hey greatest one of all was Solomon the Wise and he got the favour of God.

chrisd:

I'm not here to promote anything. If I wanted to do that I would have becomea preacher or pastor. Am here to talk about things.

as a Christian, it is your job to spread,promote the Gospel. you don't have to be a preacher or pastor to promote 'anything'. end of story.

Chrisd,

Nobody wants to hear your chit-chatter anymore because all you do is critisise the christian body. If you got a problem with the church, you have a problem with God too, in revelation God talks about churches, the truth of the matter is no church is perfect and if they are doing something totally against christ, then God will deal with them when judgement day comes. So why don't you give it a rest or take it up with God?



That's the point here. If you need the holy spirit to gudie you through the Bible. All I need to read the Qur'an is an open mind and pray for God's Guidance. Softee, I've told you not to be too emotional when you want to engage in an intellectual debate.

I apologise if this sounds derogatory. But it's the truth and I'm not afraid to say it the way it is.[/b]

You didn't hear me out properly. I said the Holy spirit is a [b]HELPER. You don't need the holy spirit to read the bible but he can help you to understand it more and to be honest any praise is better when the Holy spirit is present. As soon as you accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour the holy Spirit comes into your heart. That is a lie, the koran is not open minded, if it was open minded it will not say non-muslims are your greatest enemies. The Koran is teaches a lot of violence and only teaches love to other muslims and that is a fact.

Oh, just read your post again, you did not say the Quran was open minded. But it is still the truth

@9ijaMan

Replying post 1021! chrisd

1. Jesus (Prophet Issa) is a prophet of the Almighty sent to his people.   Q2:136 Say (O Muslims): We believe in Allah and that which is revealed unto us and that which was revealed unto Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the tribes, and that which Moses and Jesus received, and that which the prophets received from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and unto Him we have surrendered.

2. The family is a unified body, the individuals first link to the world at large.  Such a unity/collection of people is recognised by the Almighty and by implication all Muslims.

3. Death is a compulsory end to all living.  A Muslim in encouraged to do good deeds while alive and to live as if the owner of his life might request for it the next minute.

4. War is not encouraged though many are of the conception that Islam promises eternity to those who die fighting in its cause and as such encourage war.  People who hold on tho this argument are only being mischievous.    Check this  out - Q4:90
: Except those who join a group between whom and you there is a treaty (of peace), or those who approach you with hearts restraining them from fighting you as well as fighting their own people. If Allah had pleased, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you: Therefore if they withdraw from you but fight you not, and (instead) send you (Guarantees of) peace, then Allah Hath opened no way for you (to war against them).

[b][/b]

as a Christian, it is your job to spread,promote the Gospel. you don't have to be a preacher or pastor to promote 'anything'. end of story.

Could anyone blame the muslims who want to do the same, since they are they people of the last revelatin?

@chrisd,

Thanks for your input so far,

In Islam everybody will be accountable for whatever he does when he was alive. The challenge before muslims is to seek for knowledge prior to anything you want to do and it's also the muslim doctrine. Even in line with woshiping, " Knows me before you woships me,  that is what Allah says. And this is also the faith of Abraham (Qr 6:75-83), he took a stance of who is behind all these creations. And from there, he started thinking so many things, untill Allah reveal himself to him. There are so many verses in the Quran that refer muslims to seek for knowledge.

Allah says in Qur’an,” It is only (those who have knowledge) among His slaves that
fear Allah. Verily, Allah is All Mighty, Oft-Forgiving”(35:28).


Therfore, it is welcome if anybody wants to know about Islam. I belief if such a person is sincere and not an antagonist, Allah will guide him.

We pray Allah guides us all and reward us with paradise. Amin

In what way do you hope to understand Islam and Muhammed better ? Islam have already proven itself with violence and utter stupidity.

The origin of their hatred for the Jews come from the Quran. The word Jews appears 14 times in the Quran in 5 Suras: 2:113,120,135, 140; 4:46,160 (both negative); 5:18,41,44 & 51, 64, 82 (very negative); 9:30 (negative); 16:118.

9: 29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His apostle nor acknowledge the religion of truth (even if they are) of the People of the Book until they pay the Jizya with willing SUBMISSION and feel themselves HUMILIATED.

For those IGNORANT people among the followers of Muhammad, who have not read, let alone studied the Quran, this verse alone, was a unilateral a declaration of WAR by Muhammad, against the Jews and Christians

9: 30 The Jews call Uzair a son of Allah and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouths; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the truth!

[b]It is vital to point out the reason why Muhammad, FALSELY accuses the Jews - the first and most ardent MONOTHEISTS in the world - of saying that the Uzair is the son of God.

The Uzair (Ezra the Scribe), is of course not mentioned in the Torah. He is a post exilic character (c 458BCE) who put together the Torah .

Muhammad as usual, totally misunderstood or was wrongly instructed about his achievements.
Whoever it was that was instructing Muhammad, either misinterpreted the Hebrew word Ibanu/Revealed as Ibnu/Son of. Hence, not understanding or being misinformed about the actual meaning of the words, put it in his Quran thus changing the whole message of the sentence.
Muhammad being unlettered, and or only semi literate, swallowed this misinformation and in due course passed it into the verse of the Quran that we have, giving him an excuse and a false rod to beat the Jews with.

No follower of Muhammad - or any other human being on the face of this planet - can point to a single verse in the whole Scripture of the Jews, proving any of the egregious accusations made by Muhammad in his Quran[/b]

Sahih Al-Bukhari HadithHadith 4.791 Narrated byAbdullah bin Umar
I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "The Jews will fight with you, and you will be given victory over them so that a stone will say, 'O Muslim! There is a Jew behind me; kill him!' "


Sahih Al-Bukhari HadithHadith 5.510 Narrated byAnas
Allah's Apostle reached Khaibar at night and it was his habit that, whenever he reached the enemy at night, he will not attack them till it was morning. When it was morning, the Jews came out with their spades and baskets, and when they saw him(i.e. the Prophet ), they said, "Muhammad! By Allah! Muhammad and his army!" The Prophet said, "Khaibar is destroyed, for whenever we approach a (hostile) nation (to fight), then evil will be the morning for those who have been warned."


Narrated Anas bin Malik: We reached Khaibar early in the morning and the inhabitants of Khaibar came out carrying their spades, and when they saw the Prophet they said, "Muhammad! By Allah! Muhammad and his army!" The Prophet said, "Allahu-Akbar! Khaibar is destroyed, for whenever we approach a (hostile) nation (to fight) then evil will be the morning for those who have been warned." We then got the meat of donkeys (and intended to eat it), but an announcement was made by the announcer of the Prophet, "Allah and His Apostle forbid you to eat the meat of donkeys as it is an impure thing."

[b]It is as if by DIVINE guidance do the Hadiths tell some truths that escaped the Muhammadan censorship so that future readers and researches would glean the facts about what had actually transpired.
It is crystal clear and as usual, that Muhammad and his followers attacked a totally unsuspecting, peaceful and unarmed people by stealth and treachery as the hadith above shows without a shadow of a doubt.

These Jews in particular, were an agricultural people who were going about their business when attacked without warning or provocation.
Of course, Muhammad and his followers, the perfidious victors, re-wrote 'history' in the manner that suited them by alleging treachery and aggression on the part of their victims. They did the same about the Qurayish, the Christians and the other pagan Arabs.

In fact, it is the verses of the Quran and the Hadiths that belie such allegations, since they are full of aggression, hatred, incitement to murder, to pillage, to rape, to plunder and to subjugate other people who do not believe as they believe[/b]

Sahih Al-Bukhari HadithHadith 5.550 Narrated byAbdullah
The Prophet gave (the land of) Khaibar to the Jews (of Khaibar) on condition that they would work on it and cultivate it and they would have half of its yield.

Muhammad conquered, plundered, slaughtered and stole the land of the Jews and the verse above pretends as if it belonged to the theiving Muhammad in the first place

Sahih Al-Bukhari HadithHadith 5.725 Narrated byUrwa bin Az Zubair
'Aisha said, "The Prophet said during his fatal illness, 'Allah cursed the Jews for they took the graves of their prophets as places for worship.' " 'Aisha added, "Had it not been for that (statement of the Prophet) his grave would have been made conspicuous. But he was afraid that it might be taken as a place for worship."

The Shia' have broken this rule since they actually venerate the graves of Ali, Hussein and other Imams, contrary to Muhammad's prohibition. As far as Sunni Muslims are concerned, the Shia' are idolators

Sahih Al-Bukhari HadithHadith 6.252 Narrated byMusab
I asked my father, "Was the Verse: 'Say: (O Muhammad) Shall We tell you the greatest losers in respect of their deeds?'(18.103) revealed regarding Al-Haruriyya?" He said, "No, but regarding the Jews and the Christians, for the Jews disbelieved Muhammad and the Christians disbelieved in Paradise and say that there are neither meals nor drinks therein. Al- Hururiyya are those people who break their pledge to Allah after they have confirmed that they will fulfill it, and Sad used to call them 'Al-Fasiqin (evildoers who forsake Allah's obedience)."

It is interesting to note that the people who have been pagans for the previous 2300 years, have become, instantly, knowledgeable and great authorities on the Bible and Scripture, to such an extent as to challenge the veracity and beliefs of the People of the Book based ONLY on the hearsay and say so of the unlettered and ignorant Muhammad.

The same Muhammad has turned paradise into a house full of sensual and sexual pleasures for his utterly gullible and simple minded followers; a veritable WHOREHOUSE of unlimited numbers of permanent and eternal virgins.

Muhammad, had no concept or understanding of the SPIRIT world. His followers who die in JIHAD/Holy War - all men - were to go BODILY to paradise to enjoy its carnal and sensual pleasures: eating, drinking, fornicating, without defication or pregnancy

God have mercy !!!

You can copy and paste say this a million times more.

@Focus,
A misguided soul will remain misguided if he chooses to be,I pray u get the right path b4 its 2 late

alimat 2:

@Focus,
A misguided soul will remain misguided if he chooses to be,I pray u get the right path b4 its 2 late

You are the misguided soul. You better repent so that God can forgive you.

muhsin:

You can copy and paste say this a million times more.

That is the problem with Muhammedan Islam. Your cult belief system is always denying facts and veracity.

Satanic cult belief system.

Everybody knows thats what you are experts on doing--copy and paste, and abusing and insulting Muslims. All in all. Thats why I almost laugh in Hausa @ such. . .

muhsin:

Everybody knows thats what you are experts on doing--copy and paste, and abusing and insulting Muslims. All in all. Thats why I almost laugh in Hausa @ such. . .

You don't know anything about the Quran. You are just like a Zombie who just do anthing any Islamist do. I know the Quran very well and I know it is evil. It is not from God. That is the fact.


If you like laugh in Latin, thats your own business.

So you say. . .

This guy never cease to amaze me, wallahi.

@ softee and other christian - beware of this lunatic called christd . he is a muslim ,he is just pretending to be a xtian in order to attack xtian indirectly. e may hav colude wit other islamist here to pretend being a xtian. beware !!!

I laugh @ luvola. The person you are talking of posted to this OP 3 years ago.

And, how did you know?

@softee and 4getme why do you confidently quote from a new testament bible which has found no base.For the past several years archaelogist have been trying to find a proof for the authenticity of your so called holy book and there observation were intriguing, there was no proof of jesus crucifixion,the rumours being circulated about a purported grave of jesus was found to be lie,the grave happens to be three and there was no single trace of living thing in those grave.Ask yourself 'if jesus had been in those graves does it mean 'three' jesus resurrected.Moreover they found no proof of any form of solid christianity at that period as claimed by the acts of apostle which means the stories were formulated,no single miracles were performed by the disciples it was even in history that early christians do pay the jews for healing,You might wonder why jesus didn't heal them since he was a god who heals.And the most horrendous part which should puzzle any man of understanding and knowledge is the fact that the authenticity of the new testament was put into question they found out that 80% of the bible were humans cook up story which were added as time went and the disciples of jesus wrote not even a single word in that bible.Christianity was a device which was based on undermining the roman rule over the jews but it later changed focus when the proponent saw various mundane advantage that may come from advocating christianity,thus was christianity converted from mere political opponent to multi billion dollar industry.Your pastor would not want you to know this and of course they knew it but kept it from you so as not to loose their clients.Ponder on this fact and conclude yourself.You might possibly be told this is 'devils' invention,these are always the defence of no evidence people, but didn't you noticed that the house,the car being used by your pastors was actually the idea of the same so called 'devils' because the 'devils' believed that one plus one is equal to two not three.Jesus was not God and would never Be.Take note and heed today don't wait till tomorrow.No matter which name you give it a LIE will always remain a LIE!!.Truth prevail forever.