Longluk:


Chai.... This is very wrong.

Nurses normally do 3 shift in a day, that's an average of 6hrs in a day. A doctor can do 24 or even 48hrs of call without going home at all. Doctors at state and federal hospital are overwhelmed with work. Imagine a single doctor seeing up to 80 patients in a day. U won't understand if u are not in d system. Take a stroll to any teaching hospital one day and see for yourself.

Doctors in teaching and government hospitals you say Do they even attend to patients when people die anyhow in government hospitals daily due to their negligence and i-don't-care attitude towards public service...they only put in their best when referred to their private clinics where they spend most of their time, remember I am a Nigerian, not from Luxembourg

Nigerian doctors working in government owned hospitals don't show any commitment, only very very few of them....most do not take their jobs seriously unless the patient visits their private hospital...most times they abandon their jobs for nurses while they spend majority of their time attending to patients at their own personal hospitals, you think we don't know

Nurses in Nigeria are the ones who bear the brunt of the problem in most Nigerian hospitals....doctors are over pampered in Nigeria and they most times are not committed to their jobs unless the hospitals belongs to them or their family....I am talking based on verifiable facts I know okay

Sonia201919:


U are just a big liar,no doctor leave his work for any nurse to do.They all have their job functíons.I am sure u don't visit hospital but chemist to buy drugs

Most Nigerian doctors working in Nigerian hospitals that are not their own personal hospital are hardly committed to their job....they most times abandon their duties for nurses who bear the brunt of the job while they do iyanga up and down forming doctor with no exceptional, innovation breakthrough beside passing medical school exams

amaben2020:


School is meant for students to be educated, I'm not done with my msc but I wanna do a dissertation in Geobia: geographic object based image analysis; a case study of Anambra state , modelling of erosion sites that require immediate action.

Does Nigerian government take recommendation or encourage invention? That's not my fault

onyeonu!

EazyMoh:

You are now showing your true colors.
Why wouldn't any other medical professional lead ministry of health? Or even the Nigerian Medical Association? Aren't they in the same field facing the same challenges?
What of ministries such as power, works, etc that are been headed by lawyer?
I can see your bias towards doctors to the point you see nothing wrong in it.

It is only Doctors that are medical professionals others are health workers.

chrisxxx:

If you want job let me know. I am in need of Engineers. You can send your CV to me. I base in PH and work with an oil servicing company. I started as a trainee 9 years ago , today I am a manager for four years.

Come on! Who says I need a job?
If you become the MD, nobody will rest again.

You have done good for yourself, hope you are aspiring to be more.

medical Doctor, Dentist(dr.) and Veterinary Doctor all start frm level 12 because of how rigorous their training is

HBB1:



Come on! Who says I need a job?
If you become the MD, nobody will rest again.

You have done good for yourself, hope you are aspiring to be more.

I am working towards there. The best place for anyone to work for himself.

chrisxxx:

I am working towards there. The best place for anyone to work for himself.

Nice to hear, I will be in the lookout for young, bright engineers and I will contact you

paiz:
Before Someone on level 08 can reach level 12 in Federal Jobs it will take not less than 15yrs.

I think Engineering should be above level 08 for a graduate entry

The distance is too much

It takes 9 years
8-9: 3yrs
9-10: 3yrs +3yrs =6yrs
No level 11
10-12: 6yrs+3yrs = 9yrs

For engineers
8-9: 2yrs
9-10: 3yrs+2yrs =5yrs
10-12: 5yrs + 3yrs=8yrs

It has been approved that entry point for engineers is level 09 and will be advanced after 2yrs to 10. Then 10 to 12 3yrs making five years. Engineers can be employed on level 12 if COREN can up their game.

Why are most new engineering courses not in the federal government recruitment catalogue like polymer engineering...........after the whole 5 years of studying polymer & textile engineering @FUTO? Now na to go do another 5years course as NSE and COREN............ And Engineering adverts use COREN as added advantage to be generating more money to their sector knowing fully well that engineers are not easily absorbed in the society nowadays....... They value only health sectors......... Forgetting that no course is greater than eachother. We all need eachother to grow and make Nigeria develop.

adioolayi:
MBBS na double degree....Bachelor of Medicine, Bachelor of Surgery.....Don't compare them with a single degree.

English Education too is double Major

Why are most new engineering courses not in the federal government recruitment catalogue like polymer engineering...........after the whole 5 years of studying polymer & textile engineering @FUTO? Now na to go do another 5years course as NSE and COREN............ And Engineering adverts use COREN as added advantage to be generating more money to their sector knowing fully well that engineers are not easily absorbed in the society nowadays....... They only have value for health sectors.
Federal Govt have no plan for graduates this days, so the earlier we graduates find any skill of our dream and get busy with it, the better.

BravoDe:
Abeg what level is pharmacy?

PHARMNNAJI,
spiceadole,
DrTee1,

I am not a pharmacist,so I have no idea.
I am a medical doctor....on my way out of this shithole country with no plans to return.

Nigerians..you can Continue to create threads to bash doctors.
We are leaving the country for you.
Who Grade 12 salary epp compared to what is paid abroad?

This will help I believe. The implementation needs to start now.

https://nse.org.ng/news-events/recent-news/entry-point-for-engineers


Dear Members of the Nigerian Society of Engineers,
Congratulations!

The National Council on Establishment has approved

an enhanced entry point of salary Grade Level 09 for Engineers in the Public Service. This confirmation is contained in a communique issued at the end of the Council’s 40th meeting which ended in Owerri, Imo State on Friday, March 16, 2018.

By this development, graduate Engineers will now be employed in the service on GL 09, get upgraded to GL 10 after two years and further upgraded to GL 12 upon registration with COREN. This is a victory for the engineering profession in Nigeria and a testimony to the significance of tenacity in pursuing a just cause.

The President, Engr. Adekunle Mokuolu, FNSE, expresses gratitude to successive leadership of NSE – Past Presidents, Past and Present Council and EXCO members and other senior Engineers in government. They have over the years, devoted themselves to the advocacy that has brought this aspiration to fruition.

Special thanks to the Past Head of Service of the Federation, Engr. Ms. Ebele Okeke, FNSE, OFR and the incumbent Head of Sevice of the Federation, Mrs Winnifred Eyo Ita for this cheering development.

Long live Nigerian Society of Engineers!

Long live the Federal Republic of Nigeria!

Best regards,

Engr. Olalekan Taiwo, FNSE
Ag. Executive Secretary

spiceadole:

I am not a pharmacist,so I have no idea.
I am a medical doctor....on my way out of this shithole country with no plans to return.

Nigerians..you can Continue to create threads to bash doctors.
We are leaving the country for you.
Who Grade 12 salary epp compared to what is paid abroad?

Best of luck and I wish u stress-free visa ish.

BTW which country?

BravoDe:


Best of luck and I wish u stress-free visa ish.

BTW which country?

Thank you.
Destination :UK

legendarymega:
What about dentist and optician,are day on 12 grade also?

Yes, dentistry and medicine graduates are on the same level 12. Optometrist are not.

cc ademola47

*THE COST OF MAKING AN ENGINEER*
For want of a better title, I have chosen this one. I know in the course of my discourse, you will get to understand what my inner thoughts are for which I have decided to voice out using this medium. I am a lengthy writer, so brace up and follow me slowly.
As I was about graduating from Secondary School being in a state owned Science School, I had two options before me: either to become an Engineer or a Medical Doctor, as is always the case for most science students. Upon a little inquiry into the contents of these two courses, I learnt that as a Medicine student you wouldn't do mathematics, rather you will be inclined towards Biology. The opposite was the case for Engineering. For the love of Mathematics only, I opted for Engineering though many senior voices around me compelled me otherwise.
Going through Engineering for five years in a purely Engineering institution, I kept wondering at the shabbiness and lack of depth and seriousness attached to the Engineering Training. Though I saw all the Mathematics I thought I will see, there was no real life application of the concepts we were taught. Either the lecturers couldn't apply the mathematical models to industry applications or what we were learning had nothing to do with what was obtainable in the industry.
Then it was time for Industrial Training. Wow! Finally we can make sense of all these dy/dx we have been hearing. We got to the industry and had the biggest shock: Classroom and industry operated in two different worlds. Before we could even find a place to perch, it was like looking for a paid employment. Industry owners felt we were unnecessary disturbances or incursions into their normal production chain.
Five years after we wrote our 'final' exams. I kept wondering why it was called final. I felt final should have incorporated all we had learnt in the previous 9 semesters, but no, nothing of such. In fact, as is the case with most courses, everything learnt in the previous semester is dropped or forgotten. So we were only examined by what we had learnt in the final semester. May be final exams actually meant Final Semester Exams. Results computed and we left unceremoniously. No Mobil PLC, no ABB, no Julius Berger, no NNPC, no Chervron and the likes waiting to receive the latest brains from the Nigerian University System.
Thrown into NYSC camps like every other graduate, we struggled to teach Mathematics, Physics, Chemistry, etc with those that were Majors in these subjects. No Engineering Industry to be posted to. Two years after my NYSC, here I am in the office of the Secretary, Nigerian Society of Engineers to ask him what it will take for me to bear the title Engr before my name: he replied, 5 years post NYSC experience in an Engineering Industry. You couldn't imagine my laughter. So all the dy/dx for five years is grossly inadequate to make me an Engineer.
This is 18 years since I chose to study Engineering against Medicine, I have the Engineering qualification, I have registered as an Engineer and I work as an Engineer. Here is the paradox: looking at what I have been doing in the last 7 years, overseeing the safety of hundreds or thousands of lives flying over the Nigerian airspace into and out of my territory, I wonder at the shabby, non-chalant, lazy, undemanding nature of Engineering training in Nigerian Universities.
Comparing with a medical student, suffice me to give an abridged version of how medical school looks like since I have never been there. A young chap gets into medical school and from day zero, he is being told how tough it is to graduate because it is about Saving Lives (Saving Lives! I will come back to it). He is introduced to several big names, anatomy, pharmacology, physiology, clinical sciences, etc. He is told to buy big textbooks. The textbooks of course are very intimidating in size. The guy wonders will I be able to cramp all these? Then he begins to hear 1st MB, 2nd MB, if you fail, you resit, if you fail again you drop out. He is shown some students who started in Medicine but couldn't cope and had to take 'lesser' courses like Biochemistry, Medical Lab Science, Anatomy, etc. So from inception, they build into him the spirit of "I MUST SUCCEED". The guy goes through and after some years maybe in year 3 or 4 or 5 (I don't know, of course I have not been there before) the guy is whisked out of the school and sent to A Teaching Hospital where he begins to interact with the industry. He sees patients, works with consultants through medical procedures and all that. Then its time for him to graduate. He plans for the graduation: calls friends, family, well wishers and the whole community. He provides souvenir, hire reception venues and becomes the celebrity of the moment. The ceremony is not just graduation ceremony, it is not convocation: it is OATH TAKING CEREMONY and conferment of title as Dr. He is taking oath to protect and preserve lives. He obtains his license and off he goes.
The industry welcomes him with open arms. He had spent the last 3 years within the industry so he understands clearly what he will do.
Now this is the part I like to point out. What does a doctor do when he gets to the office? Let's take it in the angle of a patient by name Felicia.
Felicia wakes up in the morning with the usual pain she has been feeling for about 1 week is back. Now the pain is so severe and she decides to visit the hospital. On getting to the Out Patient Department, she is told to purchase a card so a folder can be opened for her. She does that quickly and a nurse calls her, initiates conversation to tell her all is well, you have come to the right place. The nurse takes her vital signs: blood pressure, heart beat, pulse and temperature, records in her folder and takes it to the doctor.
The doctor calls Felicia in and start asking questions, ranging from symptoms, history, etc. He tries one or two physical examination here and there and come up with a suspicion. To confirm or be very sure, he orders for laboratory tests. Meaning the doctor needs guidance (after all that rigorous training?).
Samples are taken, maybe urine, blood, faeces, cough, etc. The uncelebrated Medical Lab Scientist carries out the test and sends the result back to the doctor who now from the result gives the 'correct diagnosis'. Depending on the severity, Felicia is either admitted and handed over to a nurse or she is sent home but not without drugs.
Doctor writes out a prescription and Felicia goes to a pharmacy, meets a pharmacist who gives her the drugs and write out the dosage clearly for Felicia.
If Felicia is admitted, she lies on the bed and it becomes the duty of the nurses to administer the drugs, keep checking the vital signs and report any thing seen to the doctor who comes in for ward rounds. If Felicia needed surgery, of course, that's a whole procedure on its own. Felicia or her relative must sign a consent form to protect the doctor. Sense!
Why did I go through all these? Everything the doctor, nurse, pharmacist, lab scientist, etc did was to protect and preserve the life of just about ONE PERSON- FELICIA.
If at anytime, any of them gets a procedure wrong, only Felicia will be affected. So all the fear, seriousness, concentrated training, big text books, mighty exams and glorious oath taking was just for one person at a time. That is what is bothering me. If a doctor makes a mistake, most likely, only one person may suffer directly - maximum of one death on the average.
Now let's paint the same scenario with a typical Engineer, and I want to use one common engineering activity we see everyday - building.
Mr. Mbayo is a business man who is into real estate. He wants to build a three-storey shopping mall. So he calls an architect who discusses with him and gives him an architectural design using the survey plan gotten from the Land Surveyor. The architect hands over the design to a structural engineer who gives a structural design, an Electrical engineer who gives electrical design and a Mechanical Engineer who gives the mechanical design. The structural engineer hands over his document to a quantity surveyor that does the costing.
All designs are ready. Approvals gotten and the document is handed over to a 'Builder' who most of the time studied Building Technology or any Civil Engineer. Work starts and people are moved into the construction site - men, women, young boys and girls, machines, and all sorts of things.
Assuming there was an error in the chain and during construction, the building collapses or the building is completed and people move in, business starts and it becomes a beehive of enterprising activity, then the building collapses, or catches fire due to poor wiring, etc!
Please just pause and answer this? How many people will most likely be affected by such an error? What will be the geographical and economic effect of such an error? We can't attach a number! But it is certainly NOT going to be ONE as in the case of a doctor. I can't talk about aviation, drilling, road, rail and bridge constructions, power, etc.
So if what I painted above is the cost of training a doctor whose goal is to save one life at a time (as important as that one life is), what should be the cost of training an Engineer?
As important as Structural Engineers are in this country, no University I know of graduates Structural Engineers. We only graduate civil engineers, who decide on their own to become structural engineers. Government cannot pay attention to the one single sector that if there is an error, a whole generation can be wiped out in an instant. Engineering profession is where quackery is celebrated the most. That's why most heads of Engineering projects or parastatals are not Engineers. In Nigeria, the Minister of Works, power, housing, mineral resources, water, etc must not be an engineer. The same goes for commissioners in states. Yet, you can't do that in finance, health, law, etc.
Our professional bodies are also aggravating issues. The Nigeria Society of Engineers and COREN have refused to place value on the title and degrees acquired. When you also cast aspersion to the degree you give to us in the university (many university dons are Fellows of NSE) you tell us we need additional five years to qualify, how will outsiders think well of us? Like I told the University of Lagos don who interviewed me for my COREN exams, I am not against the written examinations, projects, and oral interview conducted before we register as engineers. But why can't all that be incorporated into our five years in school? Why should we offer courses that have no bearing with us in year one in the first place? Even if you want to make Engineering 6 or 7 years, you can make it. Just make sure the degree has value. We need to graduate having a good grasp of the industry. If doctors take oath to protect one life, how much more an engineer?
Why can't we replicate what happens in medical school in our engineering schools? You will say we don't have engineering organizations like hospitals do. But all states of the federation have Ministry of Works at the least. Why can't we have a policy of allowing engineering students to do some kind of housemanship programme in these places before they graduate? Why should individual students go out in search of IT placement when their counterparts in medical school just walk into the teaching hospitals? This is simply a matter of policy: for any school to offer engineering, you must have an industrial Centre where students will have monitored exposure to industrial experience.
Looking at the certificate NSE or COREN gives which gives us license to sign off a project, in the event such a license is revoked as a disciplinary measure, what does the bearer stand to loose? He will no longer be involved in any project or his stamp or seal are confiscated and so he can't sign again? How does not signing off a project exclude someone from a project when there are several non professionals involved already? So no one gives a thought to whether his stamp is revoked or not. In fact, its just that government establishment requires registration at a particular level of work, that is why most people are even going for it. Of course as we know, government is not the only employer of engineers. The private sector has more and they don't need that. They require skill and competency. So if I must take the registration serious, then add value to it. Is it possible to make sure only registered engineers or professionals are involved in engineering projects no matter the level of involvement? Then you are beginning to talk about adding value. Compare with a doctor, his license is his life. Without which, he is finished. He can't imagine his license hanging in the balance.
There is yet another concern about my NSE. With all the way our government treats engineers and engineering projects, can NSE decide to take any industrial action such as downing of tools? Can my President come up one day and tell the federal government and all state governors that all engineers are downing their tools! Meaning no flight, no water, no power, no oil production, no communication, no media, etc. Please don't say most engineers are working for private institutions and it will not happen. I know a lot of people in PENGASSAN and NUPENG work for private establishments, yet when they decide to down tools Nigeria quakes. Of course I can't talk about when Nigerian Medical Association or National Association of Resident Doctors decide to down tools, even with the number of private hospitals spread across Nigeria. *Our problem is basically VALUE.*
I cannot understand why Nigerian universities that produce Doctors, artists, pharmacists, accountants, architects, lawyers, etc and all these guys leave the university and begin to practice immediately; nobody is interested whether they are trained here at home or abroad; this same university cannot train engineers to practice as soon as they are out and addressed as such. The problem is not the university, the problem is definitely the manner or kind of training.
Let us stop all these commission of enquiry that we set up every time there is an accident or incident looking for who to blame and scores of lives are lost. The government knows what to do, they just refuse to do it. You can't be spending all that resource to train a medical doctor who only handles one life at a time and shabbily train an engineer who will handle projects that affect scores of lives spread across diverse tribes, races, geographical location, religion etc. Let us know this: if you fall sick and you think you cannot be treated in Nigeria, you can be flown first class to any hospital in the whole world and you receive the best care. But if that building decides to cave in, or catches fire, or that aircraft crashes, or that drilling well gives a blast, such disasters does not know if you are the governor or president or minister. If it happens and you are there, you die or get injured like every other person.
_Let's decide today to give *value* to this noble Engineering Profession._
This is me voicing out my own concerns. Hope no one feels abashe.

Our civil service salary and the country's reward structure is very poor, that is the reason .

If u don't place medical personnel reasonably ,no one will be in this country, even with the placement that seems unfair comparatively to other professionals , the salary is still very small compared to what is obtained outside Nigeria, with same skill and level of experience.

Thousands of Nigerian trained Doctors leave every year to other African countries, UK, US etc, because of numerous reason but one important one is very very poor pay in Nigeria.

Even the grade level 12 how much is the salary? That same Doctor ,if he is outside Nigeria will earn that month salary in less than four days in very many countries,when u convert what he earns to Naira.

spiceadole:

Thank you.
Destination :UK

Men, Bro's please show me the way o.
I need to start taking PLAB or USMLE seriously.

spiceadole:

I am not a pharmacist,so I have no idea.
I am a medical doctor....on my way out of this shithole country with no plans to return.

Nigerians..you can Continue to create threads to bash doctors.
We are leaving the country for you.
Who Grade 12 salary epp compared to what is paid abroad?

Dont mind all of them.

They are all crying over level 12 when we are all planning to jet out of this mess of a country.

They can eat their level 12, e no concern anyone anymore. At least, our very own minister for health (ironically a doctor too) said we can all leave if we wish...

I dey with you jare

Penboy:


Men, Bro's please show me the way o.
I need to start taking PLAB or USMLE seriously.

PLAB is better

Penboy:


Men, Bro's please show me the way o.
I need to start taking PLAB or USMLE seriously.

I think you should, except your folks are rich... Then you can own your business.

PLAB is the fastest route-- and cheaper.

US however is where the 'biggest' bucks is.
(But in the UK, your tax is put to good use-- health, education and all!)

But who says you can't have both?

Once you get out and oyinbo breeze blows your head small, you will automatically know what to do-- gbe body e!

Ninethmare:


As a graduate, do you know how many years it will take you to be in coren?
More than 5yrs

Speak what u know about its 3 years work experience hmmm

spiceadole:

I am not a pharmacist,so I have no idea.
I am a medical doctor....on my way out of this shithole country with no plans to return.

Nigerians..you can Continue to create threads to bash doctors.
We are leaving the country for you.
Who Grade 12 salary epp compared to what is paid abroad?

Its funny how they envy doctors for being placed on level 12, the way theyv been saying the level 12 you'll think the salary is up to N500K. Its very funny the way Nigerians keep bashing their doctors, but these are the same doctors that are being recruited daily by the foreign countries. Gone are the days when I argue with them, its a total waste of time. Reading most of their myopic comments you'll be amazed by the number of deeply ignorant folks that occupy this country. I'm hoping to leave this country for them soon. They can keep both their level 9 and 12.

una dey shout Doctor!! Doctor!! wetin una dey do sef? when most major surgeries are done abroad. abegi.

Penboy:


Men, Bro's please show me the way o.
I need to start taking PLAB or USMLE seriously.

I am a lady,not Bro
Follow the PLAB pathway...
It took me 19months from IELTS to PLAB 2.
I already have job offers from UK and some people are dragging Level 12 salary ,making envious and malicious remarks about medical doctors.
Its laughable.
My advice to young doctors: Start saving up your housemanship salary..Add up during NYSC..Take the necessary exams and relocate to saner climes.

Uchemus:
Its funny how they envy doctors for being placed on level 12, the way theyv been saying the level 12 you'll think the salary is up to N500K. Its very funny the way Nigerians keep bashing their doctors, but these are the same doctors that are being recruited daily by the foreign countries. Gone are the days when I argue with them, its a total waste of time. Reading most of their myopic comments you'll be amazed by the number of deeply ignorant folks that occupy this country. I'm hoping to leave this country for them soon. They can keep both their level 9 and 12.

Don't mind them.
Who is interested in Level 12 salary?
Imagine earning over 2,500 pounds/month as new NHS intake in UK ...With basic amenities in place,good working environment,flexible hours and other remuneration.You pay taxes and enjoy the benefits.
Your patients and the society at large respect you.
And people are here dragging level 12 salary that's not worth anything.
They can eat it.
We are leaving!
Pass your exams,register with GMC.
They will call you from UK,conduct interviews online and give you fantastic offers.

chrisxxx:

If you want job let me know. I am in need of Engineers. You can send your CV to me. I base in PH and work with an oil servicing company. I started as a trainee 9 years ago , today I am a manager for four years.

Good evening sir

nextdoor84:


I have a friend also who studied MBBS and was earning a mere 40k a month before leaving the country last year! Struggling is not the point of discussion here but his profession's level in the civil service bro.

I am among the lucky few..earning up to 300k but Thank God,I am leaving the country soon.

To every Nigerian doctor out there, its in your best interest to practice outside Nigeria. The Government is hostile, the hospital environment is hostile, most of other health workers are hostile towards you, and for the Nigerian patients, most of them want you to work for free because you swore the Hippocratic oath and as a doctor you and your family should die of hunger, they are the ones to call you a bad doctor and blame you for killing patients despite working under stressful and poor-resource setting - and they dont see the need to blame the government. Need less to say, they are also of the opinion that you know nothing, you can only treat malaria and that the better doctors are abroad.

So please, leave the country for them and go and work abroad, the US, UK, Ireland, Saudi, Dubai, Australia, SA, and several other options are available to you. Not to worry, we are in high demand and are highly appreciated by the foreign countries once we pass their licensing exams. Nigerians would also appreciate you better when you are working abroad, they'll prefer to come abroad to seek you for medical attention.

By the time Nigeria and Nigerians decide to wake up from this their brain drain slumber, The same Nigerian doctors working in the diaspora would be recruited back as missionaries to salvage the comatose state of the Nigerian health sector. However, in a situation you decide to remain in the country, let it be on patriotic grounds. Also bear In mind that you are very unlikely to acheive job satisfaction. Adios