What were the hard parts of Islam that you dont understand/ agree with? But of course you have to follow because of submission to Allah.

Anyone can answer but I'm specifically interested in reverts. .

What were/are the parts of Islam, in theory and in practice, that you found didn't agree with your opinion/perspective? How did you come to terms with them?

Peace

It's more about things that didn't make sense than things that were hard. Things like;

1. Prohibition of drawing and painting animals or humans.

Figure and portrait drawing are some of the most popular form of art. I had to give up both of them.

2. Prohibition of music.

I didn't quit music for good. I recall promising to quit several times, deleting all my tracks, but only to re-download them months later.

3. Lunar Islamic calendar.

Why are we using a lunar calendar? We've ditched this calendar in every other area of our lives because it is just too out of sync with seasonal rhythm. I don't know how many Muslims mark their birthday or how many Muslim countries mark their national day every 354 days.

One of the most obvious flaw in the Islamic lunar calendar is how Ramadan sometimes fall in the period of midnight sun in the earth poles, so that fasting in such areas is not possible according to the Qurán specification, unless the Muslims at the poles relocate elsewhere. An option which isn't really practical for a religion that is meant for all place and time.

4. Muhammad's marriage to a 6 years old and consummation of the marriage after 3 years.

I get that this was normal during the time. But Muhammad as a man of God should've known better. Which 6 years old is ready for the romance and sex associated with marriage, especially with a man of over 50?

Yet, even with this Muslims shamelessly parrot, "Muhammad is the best example for all mankind." Which obviously cement child marriage in Islam, a practice we all hate to love.

5. Prohibition against dating or courtship:

It never made sense to me that Islam forbid dating or courtship before marriage, but permits men to purchase unmarried slave women to serve as lovers or concubines.

6. Hudud; Amputating thieves, stoning adulterers, throwing homosexuals off rooftops or cliffs, killing apostates.

Obviously, if you've been reading my works for the past months or years, you can see I never really came to terms with these areas of Islam. I've in fact recognized them for what they are - Man made. And have stopped struggling to come to terms with them.

usermane:
Peace

It's more about things that didn't make sense than things that were hard. Things like;

1. Prohibition of drawing and painting animals or humans.

Figure and portrait drawing are some of the most popular form of art. I had to give up both of them.

Islam did not prohibit drawing, photography etc. What Islam prohibited was statue of worship and needless art works.

In the field of medicine, architecture, engineering, etc in which Muslims were once masters, drawing and various art works paved way for their respective development. Saying Islam prohibited drawing and art works is making the religion rigid and fanatical.

usermane:

2. Prohibition of music.

I didn't quit music for good. I recall promising to quit several times, deleting all my tracks, but only to re-download them months later.

Music is a general term which include any regular theme/rhythm. It's opposite is noise. In this definition, even adnan and recitation of Qur'an are forms of music.

What Islam prohibited is bad music. Lyrics, musical instruments, personality of musician and themes are what to be considered to determine halal or haram music. Qur'an tagged some talks vis-a-via music "lahw al-hadith (vulgar talks)" for the fact that (1). Bi ghayr ilm (No sense, devoid of knowledge), and (2). takes one away from the remembrance of God.

usermane:

3. Lunar Islamic calendar.

Why are we using a lunar calendar? We've ditched this calendar in every other area of our lives because it is just too out of sync with seasonal rhythm. I don't know how many Muslims mark their birthday or how many Muslim countries mark their national day every 354 days.

One of the most obvious flaw in the Islamic lunar calendar is how Ramadan sometimes fall in the period of midnight sun in the earth poles, so that fasting in such areas is not possible according to the Qurán specification, unless the Muslims at the poles relocate elsewhere. An option which isn't really practical for a religion that is meant for all place and time.

According to Qur'an, lunar calendar are mainly used for spiritual purposes like hajj, fasting, Eid etc. The general rule of calender according to Qur'an is: 12 months in a year. Hence, solar calender is not prohibited in Islam.

Muslims agreed and unified on the usage of lunar calendar for spiritual purposes but we are divided on ways to ascertain and read it based on interpretation, politics, theological differences. Muslim countries are united under their leaders declaration unlike a wannabe Muslim country like Nigeria with various differences.

usermane:

4. Muhammad's marriage to a 6 years old and consummation of the marriage after 3 years.

I get that this was normal during the time. But Muhammad as a man of God should've known better. Which 6 years old is ready for the romance and sex associated with marriage, especially with a man of over 50?

Yet, even with this Muslims shamelessly parrot, "Muhammad is the best example for all mankind." Which obviously cement child marriage in Islam, a practice we all hate to love.

If at this age of intellectual submissions, you still have the vague idea that Prophet of Islam married a 6 years old baby, then you are no different from the fanatics or haters of the Prophet who propagate this falsehood.

Many had been submitted to discard this myth.

usermane:

5. Prohibition against dating or courtship:

It never made sense to me that Islam forbid dating or courtship before marriage, but permits men to purchase unmarried slave women to serve as lovers or concubines.

Islam's intention is to protect the dignity and sanctity of especially woman. Courtship in most cases brings various form of sins alongside it: premarital sex, heartbreak, etc. Islam offers a simple solution In early marriage and advice the parents to assist the young couples until they can sustain themselves. This is more dignified than molesting each other.

As per slaves taken as lovers and concubine: this is another great misunderstanding and misinterpretation of Islam. Imagine a religion that tried so hard to abolish slavery, how will it allow slaves to be taken as mere lovers or sex machine?

There are several hadith where the Prophet of Islam said, "whoever freed a slave girl, educate her and then marries her, Allah will reward him...."

Slaves are to be freed, and if they have nowhere to go, they are to be married and taken care of.

usermane:

6. Hudud; Amputating thieves, stoning adulterers, throwing homosexuals off rooftops or cliffs, killing apostates.

Obviously, if you've been reading my works for the past months or years, you can see I never really came to terms with these areas of Islam. I've in fact recognized them for what they are - Man made. And have stopped struggling to come to terms with them.

Islam aim in establishing a crime free society brought about stern punishment for crimes. A society with no stern punishment will become a chaotic society and criminal hub.

Part of the mercy of Islam is:

1. Setting stern conditions to be met before punishment could be effected. For example, 4 just eye witness to adultery who saw at the same time when man's pen.is enters vagin.a. This is nearly impossible.

2. If the sinner repent sincerely, s/he should be left with no punishment.

Punishment is meant for unrepentant criminals.

usermane:
Peace

It's more about things that didn't make sense than things that were hard. Things like;

1. Prohibition of drawing and painting animals or humans.

Figure and portrait drawing are some of the most popular form of art. I had to give up both of them.

2. Prohibition of music.

I didn't quit music for good. I recall promising to quit several times, deleting all my tracks, but only to re-download them months later.

3. Lunar Islamic calendar.

Why are we using a lunar calendar? We've ditched this calendar in every other area of our lives because it is just too out of sync with seasonal rhythm. I don't know how many Muslims mark their birthday or how many Muslim countries mark their national day every 354 days.

One of the most obvious flaw in the Islamic lunar calendar is how Ramadan sometimes fall in the period of midnight sun in the earth poles, so that fasting in such areas is not possible according to the Qurán specification, unless the Muslims at the poles relocate elsewhere. An option which isn't really practical for a religion that is meant for all place and time.

4. Muhammad's marriage to a 6 years old and consummation of the marriage after 3 years.

I get that this was normal during the time. But Muhammad as a man of God should've known better. Which 6 years old is ready for the romance and sex associated with marriage, especially with a man of over 50?

Yet, even with this Muslims shamelessly parrot, "Muhammad is the best example for all mankind." Which obviously cement child marriage in Islam, a practice we all hate to love.

5. Prohibition against dating or courtship:

It never made sense to me that Islam forbid dating or courtship before marriage, but permits men to purchase unmarried slave women to serve as lovers or concubines.

6. Hudud; Amputating thieves, stoning adulterers, throwing homosexuals off rooftops or cliffs, killing apostates.

Obviously, if you've been reading my works for the past months or years, you can see I never really came to terms with these areas of Islam. I've in fact recognized them for what they are - Man made. And have stopped struggling to come to terms with them.

Hmm interesting.

Tbh I never believed in the prohibition of music or paintings. I just assumed one fanatic made those things up and everyone followed.

Honestly I never believed any of the things here actually. My biggest issue would also be the 6 year old thing too. I dont think its true to be honest.

My biggest struggle in Islam was the idea of "Free will". I just didnt understand how we have free will if we are to be punished for not following God's wishes. It's a complete paradox to me.

Saucyxo:
My biggest struggle in Islam was the idea of "Free will". I just didnt understand how we have free will if we are to be punished for not following God's wishes. It's a complete paradox to me.

# Then, you obviously been spoonfed dogmatically on wrong submission about freewill and Destiny.

# Man is given "freewill - ikhtiyar" and at the same time, there is "qadar (measure) and qada (predestination)".

# Predestination is of two types: those man has no power to alter, this kind, man will not be question on it since it is fixed.

The other, man has power to change it: in fact, it is he himself who is writing it based on his actions that are influenced by "freewill" given to him.

# Yet, God is so merciful that man is not left to use his "freewill" power without guidance. Intellect is given to him, Prophets are sent to him and divine books are left to guide him not to make wrong decision. Yet, if he choose wrongly, the door of mercy of the Lord is always open for restart.

# Man will not be punished for not following God's wishes, rather he will be rewarded or punished based on his handiwork.

The above submissions is the summary of several verses of the Qur'an put together.

Saucyxo:


Hmm interesting.

Tbh I never believed in the prohibition of music or paintings. I just assumed one fanatic made those things up and everyone followed.

Honestly I never believed any of the things here actually. My biggest issue would also be the 6 year old thing too. I don't think its true to be honest.

There are two types of Islam. There is the official and formal Islam that came to us through our ancestors - the classical Tafsir, Hadith and Fiqh. This Islam encapsulate everything I've mentioned. I can provide hadith evidence if you want.

The second type of Islam is the informal, customized or personalized Islam. The Islam that we conjure by sifting and often cherry picking through tafsir, hadith and fiqh. You might not believe that something is part of Islam, but that is your own Islam. For what you do not believe may be found in tafsir, hadith or fiqh - the formal Islam

AlBaqir:


# Then, you obviously been spoonfed dogmatically on wrong submission about freewill and Destiny.

# Man is given "freewill - ikhtiyar" and at the same time, there is "qadar (measure) and qada (predestination)".

# Predestination is of two types: those man has no power to alter, this kind, man will not be question on it since it is fixed.

The other, man has power to change it: in fact, it is he himself who is writing it based on his actions that are influenced by "freewill" given to him.

# Yet, God is so merciful that man is not left to use his "freewill" power without guidance. Intellect is given to him, Prophets are sent to him and divine books are left to guide him not to make wrong decision. Yet, if he choose wrongly, the door of mercy of the Lord is always open for restart.

# Man will not be punished for not following God's wishes, rather he will be rewarded or punished based on his handiwork.

The above submissions is the summary of several verses of the Qur'an put together.

Free will:
the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion

This may be completely due to my ignorance so please dont feel like I'm insulting you or I'm making solid conclusion. I'm honestly curious and open minded to finding out more.

How can I have free will and predestination ? That sounds like a complete contraction to me. How does one know the difference between fixed predestination and the one that's not fixed? Please if you dont mind using verses to back this up.

What kind of intellect ? That's not free will. How is it choosing wrongly ? If one had free will they'd be allowed to choose as they please. Forcing one to choose a certain "guidance" in order to avoid punishment isn't free will. What if I didnt agree with those guidance or I just didnt want to follow them. I have free will. Which is the ability to do things according to my own discretion.

What ? From what I understood, if you dont follow Gods wishes you'd be punished. For example it says if you don't give zakat you'll be burnt and beaten. Free will isn't follow my rules or get punished. That would be my understanding of free will anyways.

Ultramane:


There are two types of Islam. There is the official and formal Islam that came to us through our ancestors - the classical Tafsir, Hadith and Fiqh. This Islam encapsulate everything I've mentioned. I can provide hadith evidence if you want.

The second type of Islam is the informal, customized or personalized Islam. The Islam that we conjure by sifting and often cherry picking through tafsir, hadith and fiqh. You might not believe that something is part of Islam, but that is your own Islam. For what you do not believe may be found in tafsir, hadith or fiqh - the formal Islam

Hmm. I believe theres one type of Islam and several types of muslims.

Since we dont live in the age of the Prophet, the Islam we have today can only be personal. In my own opinion. I think that's why intention is very emphasised in our faith. Just like how hadith, tasfir and fiqh have been cherry picked and sifted. This we know for sure. The only source of Islam that hasnt been cherry picked or sifted is the Quran. (I'm not trying to say the sifting and cherry picking is wrong. I'm just saying that it happened.)

All Islam of today is our own Islam. Something that could mean something to me due to my knowledge and experiences could mean something different to another scholar due to their knowledge and experience. Scholars disagree. Everyone disagrees because at the end of the day, it's all personal.

This is my opinion anyways feel free to enlighten me. .

Saucyxo:


Free will:
the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion

This may be completely due to my ignorance so please dont feel like I'm insulting you or I'm making solid conclusion. I'm honestly curious and open minded to finding out more.

How can I have free will and predestination ? That sounds like a complete contraction to me. How does one know the difference between fixed predestination and the one that's not fixed? Please if you dont mind using verses to back this up.

What kind of intellect ? That's not free will. How is it choosing wrongly ? If one had free will they'd be allowed to choose as they please. Forcing one to choose a certain "guidance" in order to avoid punishment isn't free will. What if I didnt agree with those guidance or I just didnt want to follow them. I have free will. Which is the ability to do things according to my own discretion.

What ? From what I understood, if you dont follow Gods wishes you'd be punished. For example it says if you don't give zakat you'll be burnt and beaten. Free will isn't follow my rules or get punished. That would be my understanding of free will anyways.

First, freewill given to man is not absolute. Otherwise, he will destroy himself.

Consider God's wishes and various form of guidances as Doctor who knew your medical informations. Many a times, your freewill wants to choose A, B, C, D but your Doctor instruct you not to because of their consequences to your health. Upon this instruction, you still have choice to listen and obey or not to. In the long run, you will have to bear the consequences.

God is our maker. He knows the best for us; hence, His instructions (wishes) is meant for good for us. There are philosophical arguments and reasons for God's instructions. Yet, we still have the freewill to obey or not. Qur'an says:

"7. And by Nafs (soul), and Him Who perfected it in proportion;

8. Then He inspired it what is wrong for it and what is right for it;

9. Indeed he succeeds who purifies it

10. And indeed he fails who corrupts it" [sura ash-Shams: 7 - 10]

Second, intellect is a non-corporeal entity believe according to Islam to be part of soul (nafs) which is also non-corporeal (mujarad). It is an enlightened entity which brings arguments and establishes right and wrong (as verse 8 above says). Yet, the power of freewill is so strong that it can override intellectual submissions.

Qur'an further says:

2. Verily, We have created man from Nutfah drops of mixed semen, in order to try him, so We made him hearer, seer.

3. Verily, We showed him the way, whether he be grateful or ungrateful." [sura al-Insan: 2 - 3]


Third, then like I said, there is measure (qadr) and predestination (qada). Man for example has been predestined to have a particular unique features and characteristics (quiditty - maa'iyat in Islamic philosophical term) for example, two eyes, two hands, ability to stand upright, inability to fly like bird etc. This makes him distinct from other being. Man have no control over this. It is fixed. You try to change it, then you destroy yourself.

As per "paradise or hell" (for those who believe in the other world after death), man's handiwork based on his freewill to follow the instructions of his maker will decide that just like good health or bad health is associated with following or not following Doctor's instructions.

You made mention of an example in zakat. There is one beautiful hadith from Imam Ali/Imam Sadiq (peace be upon them both) which says, "the sustenance of the poor has already been aportioned in the wealth given to the rich".

Islam believe God is the bestower of wealth. He owns and designed this universe. He put wealth in various places for man. If you are given the privilege to acquire these wealth, do not be selfish. Give to the needy and poor.

Statistics showed that only 20% of world population control 80% of world's wealth meant directly or indirectly to all inhabitant of earth. Yet, there is suffering, people are dying of hunger, diseases, etc as a result of those who hoard wealth.

In the wisdom of God, zakat and other various form of monetary or wealth collection is introduced. We all admire how beautiful the western world is. They pay taxes and failure to do so earn punishment. Hence, there is punishment for those who refused to pay zakaat from what Allah grants them.

AlBaqir:



First, freewill given to man is not absolute. Otherwise, he will destroy himself.

Consider God's wishes and various form of guidances as Doctor who knew your medical informations. Many a times, your freewill wants to choose A, B, C, D but your Doctor instruct you not to because of their consequences to your health. Upon this instruction, you still have choice to listen and obey or not to. In the long run, you will have to bear the consequences.

God is our maker. He knows the best for us; hence, His instructions (wishes) is meant for good for us. There are philosophical arguments and reasons for God's instructions. Yet, we still have the freewill to obey or not. Qur'an says:

"7. And by Nafs (soul), and Him Who perfected it in proportion;

8. Then He inspired it what is wrong for it and what is right for it;

9. Indeed he succeeds who purifies it

10. And indeed he fails who corrupts it" [sura ash-Shams: 7 - 10]

Second, intellect is a non-corporeal entity believe according to Islam to be part of soul (nafs) which is also non-corporeal (mujarad). It is an enlightened entity which brings arguments and establishes right and wrong (as verse 8 above says). Yet, the power of freewill is so strong that it can override intellectual submissions.

Qur'an further says:

2. Verily, We have created man from Nutfah drops of mixed semen, in order to try him, so We made him hearer, seer.

3. Verily, We showed him the way, whether he be grateful or ungrateful." [sura al-Insan: 2 - 3]


Third, then like I said, there is measure (qadr) and predestination (qada). Man for example has been predestined to have a particular unique features and characteristics (quiditty - maa'iyat in Islamic philosophical term) for example, two eyes, two hands, ability to stand upright, inability to fly like bird etc. This makes him distinct from other being. Man have no control over this. It is fixed. You try to change it, then you destroy yourself.

As per "paradise or hell" (for those who believe in the other world after death), man's handiwork based on his freewill to follow the instructions of his maker will decide that just like good health or bad health is associated with following or not following Doctor's instructions.

You made mention of an example in zakat. There is one beautiful hadith from Imam Ali/Imam Sadiq (peace be upon them both) which says, "the sustenance of the poor has already been aportioned in the wealth given to the rich".

Islam believe God is the bestower of wealth. He owns and designed this universe. He put wealth in various places for man. If you are given the privilege to acquire these wealth, do not be selfish. Give to the needy and poor.

Statistics showed that only 20% of world population control 80% of world's wealth meant directly or indirectly to all inhabitant of earth. Yet, there is suffering, people are dying of hunger, diseases, etc as a result of those who hoard wealth.

In the wisdom of God, zakat and other various form of monetary or wealth collection is introduced. We all admire how beautiful the western world is. They pay taxes and failure to do so earn punishment. Hence, there is punishment for those who refused to pay zakaat from what Allah grants them.

Hm. Thank you for your response.

I don't know what you mean by free will given to man is not absolute otherwise he will destroy himself.

The doctor scenario doesn't really work because it's my ability to choose what I want that's in question not if I can face the consequences. If I know all the options between A - D and I go against the doctors recommendations and I die then that was my choice. And I was given complete free will to make that choice. The issue here is, In the case of religion I would be punished for going against the doctors recommendation as well as dying. I've used my free will to make my choice so why am I being punished for it ?
Except the scenario in real life is follow my way or be punished.

I am in submission to God. I understand He is our creator and His way is the best way. I'm not disputing that. But it's clearly not a free will system if I'm punished for not following His way. Its not about the natural consequences of choices its about being punished for CHOOSING. e.g Allah says not to have premarital sex. Free will gives me the option to follow that or not. Its up to me right ? If I engage in marital sex why do I get punished ? When I've been given the free will to either obey or disobey. I chose to disobey.

Yes. We pay taxes and we are punished if we dont. Theres no disguise of free will. It's very clear. Theres no option. No choice. If theres an issue I can just move to a country where they dont pay taxes and live there.

I completely understand the concept of zakat and the importance of paying it. I promise you I'm not evil lol. I'm just saying why should one be punished for using their free will ? It's like someone saying to me there are two boxes. Box A is finest things in life and Box B is just terrible horrible things. The consequence of Box B is the horrible terrible things. If I choose box B I should face my horrible terrible things. Should be now punished for choosing box B when I was told initially I had the free will to choose either ?

AlBaqir:


# Then, you obviously been spoonfed dogmatically on wrong submission about freewill and Destiny.

# Man is given "freewill - ikhtiyar" and at the same time, there is "qadar (measure) and qada (predestination)".

# Predestination is of two types: those man has no power to alter, this kind, man will not be question on it since it is fixed.

The other, man has power to change it: in fact, it is he himself who is writing it based on his actions that are influenced by "freewill" given to him.

# Yet, God is so merciful that man is not left to use his "freewill" power without guidance. Intellect is given to him, Prophets are sent to him and divine books are left to guide him not to make wrong decision. Yet, if he choose wrongly, the door of mercy of the Lord is always open for restart.

# Man will not be punished for not following God's wishes, rather he will be rewarded or punished based on his handiwork.

The above submissions is the summary of several verses of the Qur'an put together.

Sorry!

On the note of free will. I've always heard how lucky I was to be born Muslim growing up. That "it's not for a soul to believe except by the permission of Allah" . This baffles me because if then Allah doesn't give permission for someone to believe and they are punished... How is that free will ? Allah didn't give you permission to believe. You dont believe and then you're punished for not believing...

Saucyxo:


Hm. Thank you for your response.

I don't know what you mean by free will given to man is not absolute otherwise he will destroy himself.

The doctor scenario doesn't really work because it's my ability to choose what I want that's in question not if I can face the consequences. If I know all the options between A - D and I go against the doctors recommendations and I die then that was my choice. And I was given complete free will to make that choice. The issue here is, In the case of religion I would be punished for going against the doctors recommendation as well as dying. I've used my free will to make my choice so why am I being punished for it ?
Except the scenario in real life is follow my way or be punished.

I am in submission to God. I understand He is our creator and His way is the best way. I'm not disputing that. But it's clearly not a free will system if I'm punished for not following His way. Its not about the natural consequences of choices its about being punished for CHOOSING. e.g Allah says not to have premarital sex. Free will gives me the option to follow that or not. Its up to me right ? If I engage in marital sex why do I get punished ? When I've been given the free will to either obey or disobey. I chose to disobey.

Yes. We pay taxes and we are punished if we dont. Theres no disguise of free will. It's very clear. Theres no option. No choice. If theres an issue I can just move to a country where they dont pay taxes and live there.

I completely understand the concept of zakat and the importance of paying it. I promise you I'm not evil lol. I'm just saying why should one be punished for using their free will ? It's like someone saying to me there are two boxes. Box A is finest things in life and Box B is just terrible horrible things. The consequence of Box B is the horrible terrible things. If I choose box B I should face my horrible terrible things. Should be now punished for choosing box B when I was told initially I had the free will to choose either ?

# In most cases, man's bad decisions do not only affect him but affect others in a negative way. Take a look at the man that detonated nuclear bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. He did it on his freewill. He ended lives of generations and rendered the earth toxicated for years etc. You meant such a person and his accomplices should be left unpunished?

Surah Fussilat, Verse 46:

Whoever does good, it is for his own soul, and whoever does evil, it is against it; and your Lord is not in the least unjust to the servants."

Life is a gift and blessing. It is a responsibility to protect it. Hurting and killing it is a form of injustice and ungratefulness to the bestower of life.

Saucyxo:


Sorry!

On the note of free will. I've always heard how lucky I was to be born Muslim growing up. That "it's not for a soul to believe except by the permission of Allah" . This baffles me because if then Allah doesn't give permission for someone to believe and they are punished... How is that free will ? Allah didn't give you permission to believe. You dont believe and then you're punished for not believing...

According to an authentic hadiths, man is born on pure fitra and that is freewill. It is his parents that makes him follow a particular faith/religion.

However, in the development of his life, he will encounter series of faith/religious diversity with arguments and submissions. That is why people switch from one faith to the other.

Real Faith is about conviction and conviction comes after intellectual arguments and submissions. God will only judge you based on your conviction and sincerity to it. What we have most is sentiment, blind faith etc.

Saucyxo:


Hmm. I believe theres one type of Islam and several types of muslims.

Several types of Muslims practicing several types of Islam - salafism, sunnism, shiism, Quranism, Ahmadiya etc. Under each type of Islam, there are further divisions and subdivisions. Even under the same subdivisions, Muslims do not agree on basics and tenets.

Since we dont live in the age of the Prophet, the Islam we have today can only be personal. In my own opinion. I think that's why intention is very emphasised in our faith. Just like how hadith, tasfir and fiqh have been cherry picked and sifted. This we know for sure.

And why should that be? Personalized Islam is subjective with conclusions often suffering from bias. Thus, the need for a formal Islam retained at least through the scripture. Unfortunately, the scriptures have their own drawback, but that's a different subject.

The only source of Islam that hasnt been cherry picked or sifted is the Quran. (I'm not trying to say the sifting and cherry picking is wrong. I'm just saying that it happened.)

Even the Qur'an has been cherry picked and sifted through. Either by re-interpretation bias or flat out ignoring certain ideas within it.

For instance, Qur'an demand husband to hit persistently misbehaving wives. Millions of Muslims will discourage hitting even persistently misbehaving wives, they'd recommend alternative approach for husbands. This is flat out sifting and cherry picking verses.

Another example, the Qur'an speaks of certain ayat abrogating others(2:106, 16:101). On direct look, this would imply some later verses of the Qur'an abrogate earlier ones. This is consensus of earlier scholars.

But come 21st century, & you find Muslims reinterpreting this as referring to abrogation of Biblical verses by Qur'an, despite the fact that Qur'an instruct Jews & Christians to abide by the Bible.

Other Muslims say this verse rather mean that previous signs or miracles revealed by Allah are abrogated or replaced by later ones, since "ayat" also mean signs/miracles. Which is not true, since Muhammad was not sent with any special 'sign' to replace previous signs.

With the Qur'an please realize;
There is no 100% guarantee that what we have today is what Muhammad left.

There is no complete copy of the earliest manuscripts from the 7th century. The supposed earliest copies lack diacritical marks, so that one word could have numerous meanings. Thus, when a few centuries after Muhammad Muslims started adding diacritic, it is not too far-fetched to claim these Muslims were basically connecting dots.

All Islam of today is our own Islam. Something that could mean something to me due to my knowledge and experiences could mean something different to another scholar due to their knowledge and experience. Scholars disagree. Everyone disagrees because at the end of the day, it's all personal.

As before, why is that? Shouldn't a religion meant for all places and times have a uniform understanding? Personal Islam works in the home and in secular countries. But outside the home, in Muslim countries that chose to govern by Islam, personal Islam goes out the window.

If you live in Saudi A/Iran/Pakistan, you have to deal with anything they pass as Islamic law, whether you believe it is part of Islam or not. They don't care about personal Islam, they care about formal Islam - the Qur'an understood via tafsir, hadith and fiqh.

AlBaqir:


# In most cases, man's bad decisions do not only affect him but affect others in a negative way. Take a look at the man that detonated nuclear bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. He did it on his freewill. He ended lives of generations and rendered the earth toxicated for years etc. You meant such a person and his accomplices should be left unpunished?

Surah Fussilat, Verse 46:

Whoever does good, it is for his own soul, and whoever does evil, it is against it; and your Lord is not in the least unjust to the servants."

Life is a gift and blessing. It is a responsibility to protect it. Hurting and killing it is a form of injustice and ungratefulness to the bestower of life.

Such person should be punished for harming people. Not for disobeying God...

Okay, now that we are here, and I see no one is exchanging e-blows here. I have a question to ask.

I stumbled on one Islamic book, about death and journey to the after life. There, it stated that when a good person dies, the angels will peacefully carry the persons soul to heaven.

But when a wicked person dies, the is it angels abi demons (one of dem cant remember which again) will FORCEFULLY rip his soul out of his body. Lets focus on the keyword there FORCEFULLY. why that? I suspect some reasons, but let me hear from you muslims first..
Thank you.

Sir, take your post and dump in the garbage bin. Islam is not and not like christianity you tried to equate it with. Sects or groups you mentioned believed ALL OBLIGATORY PRACTICES THE SAME WAY. So, take your silly ideology and dump them in shithole. You are not muslim

Ultramane:


Several types of Muslims practicing several types of Islam - salafism, sunnism, shiism, Quranism, Ahmadiya etc. Under each type of Islam, there are further divisions and subdivisions. Even under the same subdivisions, Muslims do not agree on basics and tenets.



And why should that be? Personalized Islam is subjective with conclusions often suffering from bias. Thus, the need for a formal Islam retained at least through the scripture. Unfortunately, the scriptures have their own drawback, but that's a different subject.




Even the Qur'an has been cherry picked and sifted through. Either by re-interpretation bias or flat out ignoring certain ideas within it.

For instance, Qur'an demand husband to hit persistently misbehaving wives. Millions of Muslims will discourage hitting even persistently misbehaving wives, they'd recommend alternative approach for husbands. This is flat out sifting and cherry picking verses.

Another example, the Qur'an speaks of certain ayat abrogating others(2:106, 16:101). On direct look, this would imply some later verses of the Qur'an abrogate earlier ones. This is consensus of earlier scholars.

But come 21st century, & you find Muslims reinterpreting this as referring to abrogation of Biblical verses by Qur'an, despite the fact that Qur'an instruct Jews & Christians to abide by the Bible.

Other Muslims say this verse rather mean that previous signs or miracles revealed by Allah are abrogated or replaced by later ones, since "ayat" also mean signs/miracles. Which is not true, since Muhammad was not sent with any special 'sign' to replace previous signs.

With the Qur'an please realize;
There is no 100% guarantee that what we have today is what Muhammad left.

There is no complete copy of the earliest manuscripts from the 7th century. The supposed earliest copies lack diacritical marks, so that one word could have numerous meanings. Thus, when a few centuries after Muhammad Muslims started adding diacritic, it is not too far-fetched to claim these Muslims were basically connecting dots.



As before, why is that? Shouldn't a religion meant for all places and times have a uniform understanding? Personal Islam works in the home and in secular countries. But outside the home, in Muslim countries that chose to govern by Islam, personal Islam goes out the window.

If you live in Saudi A/Iran/Pakistan, you have to deal with anything they pass as Islamic law, whether you believe it is part of Islam or not. They don't care about personal Islam, they care about formal Islam - the Qur'an understood via tafsir, hadith and fiqh.

sorextee:
Okay, now that we are here, and I see no one is exchanging e-blows here. I have a question to ask.

I stumbled on one Islamic book, about death and journey to the after life. There, it stated that when a good person dies, the angels will peacefully carry the persons soul to heaven.

But when a wicked person dies, the is it angels abi demons (one of dem cant remember which again) will FORCEFULLY rip his soul out of his body. Lets focus on the keyword there FORCEFULLY. why that? I suspect some reasons, but let me hear from you muslims first..
Thank you.

Lol maybe because they're wicked and so itll be painful?