simmy:

u nairaland people sef u like wahala, if muslims want to fac eeast how your own be
obvioulsy the original muslims prayed facing their east and the practise spread as habit, y do xtians tend to clasp their hands or close their eyes when they pray it just tradition!!! y do we celebrate xmas at 25th dec tradition!!! y do women cover their heads in most churches, tradition!!! so y do muslims face east tradiition!!

That is what we vehemently resist here and we choose not to be logged down into the religious dogma. If at all the Muslim have decided to face the East in their prayers, at least we want to know why and where is their East.

For one, I know the face East, just because of the location of their ka'bah, which unfortunately contains a precious stone, logically it would be appropiate to deduce that they are busy worshipping a stone thinking that they are worshipping Allah

When certain norms cannot be questioned, then something is wrong somewhere.

mrpataki,the sad aspect from our little geography lesson on page 2 is that some are neither facing mecca nor the kaabah!!.Nigerian Muslims have been facing east,towards the Indian ocean when they needed to face northeast.
Who knows the percentage of prayers that swam up to Mecca compared to those that drowned?

babyosisi:

mrpataki,the sad aspect from our little geography lesson on page 2 is that some are neither facing mecca nor the kaabah!!.Nigerian Muslims have been facing east,towards the Indian ocean when they needed to face northeast.
Who knows the percentage of prayers that swam up to Mecca compared to those that drowned?

simply put they have all this while being WASTING THEIR TIME,it,s a pity.

@simmy,

simmy:

u nairaland people sef u like wahala, if muslims want to fac eeast how your own be
obvioulsy the original muslims prayed facing their east and the practise spread as habit, y do xtians tend to clasp their hands or close their eyes when they pray

It is not as simplistic as that. The real issue is not which direction they face when praying. The real question to ask is: what is in the direction they face to pray?

The answer that is readily given is that all Muslims are asked to face the direction of the Kaa'ba.

That being the case, we have to ask again: what is inside the Kaa'ba that Muslims must face its direction in praying?

Some may be willing to tell you; and the answer is in pictures below:


               

               


                        Yep, that is the real issue here: The BLACK STONE!!

It is not just a matter of the direction of East or West; ot whether there are two Easts or two Wests (as the Qur'an says in Q. 55:17). The real issue here is that there is a BLACK STONE to be revered in Islam; and Muhammad started the practice of kissing the Stone.

However, if one may ask why this Stone is so revered in Islam, the answer is blank. Muslims today propound a lot of theories stories excuses exculpations for the significance of their reverence for the Stone; but it is interesting to read that Muhammad's companions did not attach any importance to it:

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 26, Number 667:
Narrated 'Abis bin Rabia: 'Umar came near the Black Stone and kissed it and said
"No doubt, I know that you are a stone and can neither benefit anyone nor harm anyone.
Had I not seen Allah's Apostle kissing you I would not have kissed you."


The question one must ask here is:

        Is the kissing of the Stone and the reverence accorded it not the same thing as idolatory??

Answers please.

funkelola:

IGNORANCE!
Dont think we should really poke our nose into issues we no nothing about ,rather ask questions in a matured way.
I don't think this forum should be an avenue to rebuke other people's religion.davidylan or whatever he calls himself went as far as saying Allah is alleged to be the "all knowing".For goodness sake,we should learn to mind our words especially when it has to do with the ALMIGHTY.





we are all practising what we are been born into.

TEACHER,MADAM KNOW ALL,you ended up saying nothing,if you dont have answers to the questions,i have two things for you,GET OUT OF HERE or SHUT THE HELL UP.

babyosisi:

mrpataki,the sad aspect from our little geography lesson on page 2 is that some are neither facing mecca nor the kaabah!!.Nigerian Muslims have been facing east,towards the Indian ocean when they needed to face northeast.
Who knows the percentage of prayers that swam up to Mecca compared to those that drowned?

. . . . .The Indian Ocean must be full of their prayers by now. Yet no one is able to question the rationale behind their genuflecting to the wrong direction

I must be damned to be in such a religion!

just a side bar

why's the guy on the left dressed in black while others are wearing white?
what did he do that his uniform had to be different?

Telly B:

@simmy,

It is not as simplistic as that. The real issue is not which direction they face when praying. The real question to ask is: what is in the direction they face to pray?

The answer that is readily given is that all Muslims are asked to face the direction of the Kaa'ba.

That being the case, we have to ask again: what is inside the Kaa'ba that Muslims must face its direction in praying?

Some may be willing to tell you; and the answer is in pictures below:







Yep, that is the real issue here: The BLACK STONE!!

It is not just a matter of the direction of East or West; ot whether there are two Easts or two Wests (as the Qur'an says in Q. 55:17). The real issue here is that there is a BLACK STONE to be revered in Islam; and Muhammad started the practice of kissing the Stone.

However, if one may ask why this Stone is so revered in Islam, the answer is blank. Muslims today propound a lot of theories stories excuses exculpations for the significance of their reverence for the Stone; but it is interesting to read that Muhammad's companions did not attach any importance to it:

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 26, Number 667:
Narrated 'Abis bin Rabia: 'Umar came near the Black Stone and kissed it and said
"No doubt, I know that you are a stone and can neither benefit anyone nor harm anyone.
Had I not seen Allah's Apostle kissing you I would not have kissed you."


The question one must ask here is:

Is the kissing of the Stone and the reverence accorded it not the same thing as idolatory??

Answers please.

@babs787{mohammed,s 1st born}where you dey?over to you,these questions are for you,abi daddy{mohammed}no tell you before he peme?

The stone will become a human being eventually.

It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbas said: The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said concerning the Stone: "By Allah, Allah will bring it forth on the Day of Resurrection, and it will have two eyes with which it will see and a tongue with which it will speak, and it will testify in favour of those who touched it in sincerity."[13]

nossychek and babyyosi, i guess you guys derive so much fun and fulfillment from firing @babs, please spare him o. Your posts are usuall hilarious. But more seriously, these latst pictures are quite revealing as it is supposed to be the centre of Islam (if i am correct). Our muslim friends need to shed some light right away cheers.

Let's i forget, david, baby and nossy please reconcil with babs, i know he has a forgiving spirit, he will forgicve you guys.

Hello Nairalanders,

This forum has had it's ups and downs. People contributing to topics (especially sensitive ones like this) shouldn't just post out of ignorance or mokery. It is obvious many of the contributors are ignorant about Islam and are not willing to learn, Babs has done well in answering your questions. Now to answer some of your questions.

what is inside the Kaa'ba that Muslims must face its direction in praying?

The Kaa'ba was built by Abraham for your info. There is nothing in it, facing the same direction also signifies unity apart from being a commandment of Allah. The black stone is not being worshipped and is there for symbolic reason as it was placed by reps of differrent clans (unity).

Muslims in Iceland face east. . . muslims in Nigeria face east. . . muslims in iraq face east. . .

Is "east" the same direction for everyone? Are they really facing the ka'aba or worshipping the moon?

davidylan I suggest you research more b4 sending posts so u wont sound so ignorant (appologies, dont mean any harm). The Sun rises from the East and sets in the West. This alone proves that East and west is the same for everyone, irrespective of your location. Geography proves this.

Like I mentioned earlier Babs has answered the other questions so i wont comment on them.

SUGGESTION: The fact that you dont beleive what others beleive does not give you the right to condemn them, the Almighty will judge us all on judgement day. For those willing to know more about Islam, pls dont hesitate to contact the nearest Mosque to you. May Allah forgive us all and increase us in knowledge (Amen)

Hi @Flowjay,

Flowjay:

This forum has had it's ups and downs. People contributing to topics (especially sensitive ones like this) shouldn't just post out of ignorance or mokery. It is obvious many of the contributors are ignorant about Islam and are not willing to learn,

For Muslims to be making contributions and not answering questions is no way to learn anything.

Flowjay:

Babs has done well in answering your questions.

What answers has he given to the core questions posted recently? Has he not been asking for "proof, facts, evidence" whenever questions are raised. I didn't see him post a dot since the hard facts and evidence were given.

Flowjay:

Now to answer some of your questions.The Kaa'ba was built by Abraham for your info.

That was what Muhammad told Muslims. It has no historical basis, and that "revelation" has been debunked one too many times. The dates and figures in Muhammad's claims are mixed up; his reasoning is disjointed and even Muslims cannot reconcile them to fit the facts that the Kaa'ba is far removed from Abraham.

So, just recycling the same old baseless scripts is no way to present truth or fact.

Flowjay:

There is nothing in it,

Wrong. The Black Stone is there.

Flowjay:

facing the same direction also signifies unity apart from being a commandment of Allah.

Again, it has been demonstrated that Muslims do not face the same direction as they claimed -- EAST. Take a look at the picture below and see the when people are all facing the Kaa'ba from all directions, that is hardly the same thing as facing the EAST!!


Muslims face the Kaa'ba from all DIFFERENT directions!!

Flowjay:

The black stone is not being worshipped and is there for symbolic reason as it was placed by reps of differrent clans (unity).

Three big, but fallacious claims in one statement. Here's what's wrong with them:

(a) to kiss a stone is reverring it; to rever it in such a manner constitutes idolatory!

(b) the "symbolic reason" you claim is not given by Muhammad; and as far as we know,
even his companions regarded it as neither able to benefit nor harm anyone. Otherwise,
could you please offer us the "symnbolic reason"??

(c) The stone was not placed there by different clans - the clans being said to be those of
the Biblical characters (Adam, Noah, etc). It is just a claim made to hoodwink Muslims,
and they bought into it without a careful investigation into Islam's claims about it!

Flowjay:

davidylan I suggest you research more before sending posts so u wont sound so ignorant (appologies, don't mean any harm). The Sun rises from the East and sets in the West. This alone proves that East and west is the same for everyone, irrespective of your location. Geography proves this.

Wrong again. Even the argument from your own statement would mean that "the sun rises in the West and sets in the East" - which is the same for everyone irrespective of location. Muslim apologists love this propaganda so much that any such fallacious statement coming from their camp is bound to cheer them on, even if such statements are wide of berth.

Geography rather disproves your assertions - that is why we have longitudes and latitides; and if anything at all, there's no text in the Qur'an where your assumptions can remotely be carried.

Flowjay:

Like I mentioned earlier Babs has answered the other questions so i wont comment on them.

He has answered nothing to the core questions. And like I said, only conveniently selected texts were used in his posts for the usual Muslim theories stories excuses exculpations!!

Flowjay:

SUGGESTION: The fact that you don't beleive what others beleive does not give you the right to condemn them, the Almighty will judge us all on judgement day.

Preach to your choir. What do you think babs has been doing?? Does he realize (and agree with you) that the Almighty will judge him on that day too??

Flowjay:

For those willing to know more about Islam, please don't hesitate to contact the nearest Mosque to you. May Allah forgive us all and increase us in knowledge (Amen)

We are all willing to learn; we don't have to wait until we're being traced by jihadists for asking too many questions. Why?? Because Muhammad claimed that 'Allah has hated' those who ask questions!!

Again, the passion is so strong, and quite admirable, that we can safely conclude the following:

   If the compass is rightly pointing to the direction, it doesn't matter what is in front of you!!

                 Now you see it

       


                 Now you don't!!

       


It all has to do with the direction. . . or does it?? 

Well i don't know what you guys are drivig at, i believe the matured minds will ask questions if they require answers not making mokery or fun out it. lets be careful.

skyhadi16:

Well i don't know what you guys are drivig at, i believe the matured minds will ask questions if they require answers not making mokery or fun out it. lets be careful.

When people asked questions maturely, they were ignored on the excuses that there were no "proofs, facts, evidences". Here they are provided and we want answers; but now this is all that is being returned??

Flowjay:

Hello Nairalanders,

This forum has had it's ups and downs. People contributing to topics (especially sensitive ones like this) shouldn't just post out of ignorance or mokery. It is obvious many of the contributors are ignorant about Islam and are not willing to learn, Babs has done well in answering your questions.

- You are only able to learn as long as there is someone to teach you. Where are the muslims who want to enlighten us about islam? Rather than provide concrete explanations, everyone is hiding under the banner of "ignorance about islam".

- Where are blabs answers? If he had "done very well" would we still be asking questions?

Flowjay:

Now to answer some of your questions.The Kaa'ba was built by Abraham for your info.

- that is the fairytale that Mohammed told you in a state of schizophrenic depression aka "revelation". What are the historical evidences that back this baseless claim?
Islamic tradition claims the Ka'aba was first built by Adam, rebuilt by Abraham, later destroyed and rebuilt by the descendants of Noah.
Muhammad claims the Ka'aba was built 40 years before the Al' Aqsar mosque in Jerusalem, on the site of Solomon's temple.

However, there is no evidence that there was a mosque in Jerusalem as at the first building of Solomon's temple as it is not recorded that Solomon had to demolish any spiritual symbol on the mount of Moriah.
The same mount Moriah was where God told Abraham to go sacrifice Isaac. Clearly no mention is made of any mosque being on that site!
So we can safely deduce that the Al aqsar mosque DID NOT exist before Solomon's temple. King Herod's temple (a rebuilding of Solomon's temple earlier destroyed by the babylonian empire) was destroyed by the Romans never to be rebuilt in AD 70. Therefore the earliest the al-aqsar mosque could have been built was AD 70.

If indeed the ka'aba was built 40 years before the al-aqsar mosque, then it could not have been built any earlier than AD 30. It is impossible that Adam, Abraham or Noah could have built the Ka'aba for history acknowledges they lived more than 2000 years before AD 70!

Flowjay:

There is nothing in it, facing the same direction also signifies unity apart from being a commandment of Allah. The black stone is not being worshipped and is there for symbolic reason as it was placed by reps of differrent clans (unity).

- The black stone is in the ka'aba.
- In no place in the quran did Allah indicate that facing the same direction is a symbol of unity.
- Indeed it is a commandment of allah but for what purpose?
- To claim not to worship a stone that you kiss and bow down to is to claim that 6 is not equal to half a dozen
- What was the "symbolic reason" for placing the stone there?
- Who were the "reps of different clans" who placed the stone there? History records the stone was in the ka'aba long before mohammed came with his fraudulent religion, how could those people who were not muslims, with no knowledge of allah have placed a stone to represent muslim unity?

Flowjay:

davidylan I suggest you research more before sending posts so u wont sound so ignorant (appologies, don't mean any harm). The Sun rises from the East and sets in the West. This alone proves that East and west is the same for everyone, irrespective of your location. Geography proves this.

To compare the location of the sun to a black stone in mecca is to portray ignorance.
- the sun is a bright star several light yrs away from the earth; since the earth is round and revolves around the sun it makes perfect sense that the sun would rise in the east and set in the west for everyone on earth!
Is the ka'aba a star or satellite?

Flowjay:

SUGGESTION: The fact that you don't beleive what others beleive does not give you the right to condemn them, the Almighty will judge us all on judgement day. For those willing to know more about Islam, please don't hesitate to contact the nearest Mosque to you. May Allah forgive us all and increase us in knowledge (Amen)

If the "knowledge" you are praying for is the same type that you have exhibited here then you have a long way to go. Anytime i read a rejoinder from a muslim, the words "grasping" and "straws" come to mind.

Telly B:

When people asked questions maturely, they were ignored on the excuses that there were no "proofs, facts, evidences". Here they are provided and we want answers; but now this is all that is being returned??

Telly B:

Again, the passion is so strong, and quite admirable, that we can safely conclude the following:

   If the compass is rightly pointing to the direction, it doesn't matter what is in front of you!!

                 Now you see it

       


                 Now you don't!!

       


It all has to do with the direction. . . or does it?? 

allahu akhbar!

I hope the prayers didn't bounce off that pink bikini before proceeding east.
_{sexy prayers!!}

it doesnt matter where you are praying as long as it faces the east
those guys praying will have something infront of them .

the dummies in bikini will not obstruct their prayers

ok muki.
what a thread!

abeg make una face east jare,which one concern me?

mukina2:

it doesnt matter where you are praying as long as it faces the east

If every Muslim faces East, they cannot all be facing the kaa'ba.

If every Muslim is facing the Kaa'ba, they cannot all be facing East.

mukina2:

those guys praying will have something infront of them .

I hope so; but what is it they would have in front of them??

mukina2:

the dummies in bikini will not obstruct their prayers

That is if they're even facing the East at all.

If every Muslim faces East, they cannot all be facing the kaa'ba.

If every Muslim is facing the Kaa'ba, they cannot all be facing East.

This statement of fact cannot be disputed.

Ideally, I dont like contributing to religious thread 'cos almost everybody in-house is already bias towards their belief and our disussions does not appear matured or objetive. The special thing about kabba is that its a mosque built by Ibrahiim (A.S) who prayed that Allah should bless the house and make it a point of convergence for the generations of faithfuls to come. Kabba is where the Muslims face when praying and it signifies unity - - All Muslims in the world face one single Kaaba and of course via various geographical directions, by virtue of the position of the position of the kaaba to my current geographical location. THATS SIMPLE AND CLEAR!

But why the mention of the 'east' ? Because, we all face the Middle East which incidentally is the centre of the world. So, pple make a passing comment that we face EAST implying that we face the Middle East.

Rabbul Mashrikaini Wal maghribain - The Lord of the two Easts and Wests - This is language stuff - Lugathan Arabiya - You see in translation, you make some nearest in meaning for lack of most appropriate words to use -

Rabbul - The Lord

mashrikainin - The two places where the sun rises (this was tranlated to East, for convenience)

Maghribain - The two places where the sun sets. (this was tranlated to West, for convenience)


I hope this suffices for an objective mind.

@olat,

olat:

Ideally, I don't like contributing to religious thread 'because almost everybody in-house is already bias towards their belief and our disussions does not appear matured or objetive.

The bias is strongest among Muslims who ask for evidence, facts, proofs; and when they are given such, they've got nothing to say than claim that people are posting out of ignorance.

olat:

The special thing about kabba is that its a mosque built by Ibrahiim (A.S) who prayed that Allah should bless the house and make it a point of convergence for the generations of faithfuls to come.

You're recycling the same old piece that has already been debunked. Muhammad told that tale to his companions; but it has no substance at all.

olat:

Kabba is where the Muslims face when praying and it signifies unity - - All Muslims in the world face one single Kaaba and of course via various geographical directions, by virtue of the position of the position of the kaaba to my current geographical location. THATS SIMPLE AND CLEAR!

That may be your persuasion; but the books and tenets of Islam did not say that the directions are various or different. They claim it is one direction - and that is EAST.

olat:

But why the mention of the 'east' ? Because, we all face the Middle East which incidentally is the centre of the world.

The Middle East is NOT the center of the world in terms of geographical positioning or direction. Even middle easterners have to measure direction and time using the same well-established time zones and longitudes and latitudes. In which case, they would have to take their current location in relation to the Greenwich Mean Time (GMT), because that is where you measure your zero hour, and indicate the time EASTWARD or WESTWARD from there.

The Standard Time Zone (UTC/GMT) for Mecca, Saudi Arabia is +3 hours; and there is no daylight saving time in 2007. I hope this little geography lesson will help.

olat:

So, people make a passing comment that we face EAST implying that we face the Middle East.

It is not a passing comment, and I do not find any Muslim commentary (tafsir) giving off what you're stating here. They all point to a direct geographical spot - the Kaa'ba in Mecca; and most Muslims refer to a direct position of the EAST; and not rather a political bloc such as the Middle East.

The Middle East is a political bloc that includes several countries, and it cannot as a term be highjacked and used to represent only Mecca or the Kaa'ba. Please see the region called the Middle East below:

[img]http://www.externalharddrive.com/countries/middleeast/middleeast.GIF[/img]

olat:

Rabbul Mashrikaini Wal maghribain - The Lord of the two Easts and Wests - This is language stuff - Lugathan Arabiya - You see in translation, you make some nearest in meaning for lack of most appropriate words to use -

In the Islamic world, there is nothing like "nearest in meaning". It was Pickthall who said that the Qur'an cannot be translated - and not even one Muslim has attempted to counter that quip.

olat:

Rabbul - The Lord

mashrikainin - The two places where the sun rises (this was tranlated to East, for convenience)

Maghribain - The two places where the sun sets. (this was tranlated to West, for convenience)

Fair enough, if that could be explained as being the times and differences during the sun's path in the spring and fall equinoxes. But that would present a huge problem for you!!

Actually, the spring and fall equinoxes are the only two days of the year that the sun rises due east and sets due west. On other days, the sun rises either north or south of "east" and sets north or south of "west." That is why you will not find just two paths traced for sun across the sky for all times of the year! In quite a simplistic manner, this is illustrated in the diagram below; and please observe that there are THREE standard paths traced across the sky at different times of the year:


                                                As seen from Washington DC.

      [img]http://www.onr.navy.mil/focus/spacesciences/images/observingsky/sunhorizon.jpg[/img]

The Vernal and Autumnal Equinoxes have nearly equal amounts of day and night and the Sun's midday altitude is midway between its heights on the Solstices.

Source: http://www.onr.navy.mil/focus/spacesciences/observingsky/sun1.htm

olat:

I hope this suffices for an objective mind.

I appreciate your attempt to provide answers; but as you can see, they fall short of reality.

Regards.

@Babs

Salam brother.

Longest time.

I have been very busy moving to and fro. I am sending this post before I jet out because I know that you may likely be online.

You have done a marvelous job as a muslim, silencing some and extinguishing the fire of falsehood, may Allah continue to guide you. I will like to bring it your awareness that you should please tread softly in your debate. Yours as muslim is to “Invite (mankind O muhammed) to the way of your Lord (i.e Islam) with wisdom (i.e with the Divine Revelation and the Quran) and fair preaching, and argue with them in a way better. Truly, your Lord knows best who has gone astray from His path (Q 6 v 125)

Your own is to tell them but I learnt that it has been turned to a situation where some apologists abuse my God and your God, the best thing for you is to watch out in order not to sin through their blasphemous statements.

You should know that “if you were to bring to the People of the scripture all the Ayat, they would not follow your Qiblahj nor are you going to follow their Qiblah and they will not follow each other’s Qiblah (2: 145)

Allah continues that 'He would have made you one nation, but that He may test you in what he has given you, so compete in good deeds (5v 48)

And

“And had your Lord willed those on earth would have believed, all of them together. So will you (O Muhammed) then compel mankind, until they become believers

Quran 2 v 256: there is no compulsion in religion. Verily the right path has become distinct from the wrong path.

I read about how a geographer tried bringing up a map showing the direction each country faces. He should ask himself the direction those in Iran, America, Nigeria, Sudan etc face and when he has satisfied his curiosity, he should find out the work of the mat and instrument that detects the direction one faces during prayer. He should also find out how people detect the direction being faced during prayer.

I also read an ignorant post of a lady. I used ignorance because her bible never made her know that sin committed ignorantly is never accounted for. So if some people urinate in the toilet facing Qiblah direction, it will never be a sin because they didn’t construct the toilet facing the Qiblah and also if they pray facing any direction, there is no sin against them because there is no knowledge with regards to direction to be faced but if they have the instrument for detecting the direction, it would make prayer easier for them.

I also read about someone saying that he is here to save people. I doubt if he is aware that he is on his own unless he accept the last prophet and the last book and nothing for him unless he accepts Islam.

I love the concluding part of your posts on biblical verse from the bible. Jesus’ prophecy is now coming to pass. Wide is the gate that leads to destruction and many people will be going through it and one shouldn’t be surprised when lots of people are accepting Christianity.

Maa Salam.



@Mukina

Salam lovely sister. I respect your courage and boldness in addressing issues. Its just that I have been very busy but when I am back, we will know each other better. Remember that that there is no religion that guarantees salvation as Islam.

Maa Salam




@Lumzi

You don’t need to be afraid. You have the best asset which is Islam. Do not be deceived, Islam is the only religion to be accepted by him. It is not a religion started by Muhammed but by Adam, Abraham etc. If you have anything bothering you on Islam, you can contact some muslims here in the likes of my Brothers: Belloti, Babs, Oyb, etc and my lovely intelligent sister Mukina. May Allah continue to guide us.

Maa Salam

Kaaba is the Qibla i.e. the direction Muslims face during their prayers. It is important to note that though Muslims face the Kaaba during prayers, they do not worship the Kaaba.

Muslims worship and bow to none but Allah. It is mentioned in Surah Baqarah:

“We see the turning of thy face (for guidance) to the heavens: now shall We turn thee to a Qiblah that shall please thee. Turn then thy face in the direction of the Sacred Mosque: wherever ye are, turn your faces in that direction.” [Al-Qur’an 2:144]

1. Islam believes in fostering unity For instance, if Muslims want to offer Salaah (Prayer), it is possible that some may wish to face north, while some may wish to face south. In order to unite Muslims in their worship of the One True God, Muslims, wherever they may be, are asked to face in only one direction i.e. towards the Kaaba. If some Muslims live towards the west of the Kaaba they face the east. Similarly if they live towards the east of the Kaaba they face the west.
2. Kaaba is at the Centre of the World Map The Muslims were the first people to draw the map of the world. They drew the map with the south facing upwards and north downwards. The Kaaba was at the centre. Later, western cartographers drew the map upside down with the north facing upwards and south downwards. Yet, Alhamdullilah the Kaaba is at the centre of the world map.


Source:http://www.therevival.co.uk/?p=244


Ma salam brothers and sisters

@muske and all sobbing Muslims on the Forum,

The hilarity of Muslims praising one another under the cover of their shame is just out of this world. It may make him feel good, afterall he has often sought to be self-applauded. If he indeed has "silenced" anyone or "extinguished" any so-called fire, have you read a dot from him in this thread ever since the "facts, proofs, evidences" and pictures started popping up - the very same things under which he has been excusing himself? He has continued to circulate some very popular jokes on the Forum which have become nothing more than tissue questions meant for the latrine.

The joke continues in the myth of the Qur'an and science. The backyard apologetics of Dr. Naik Zakir being recycled ad infinitum on the question of Human Embryology and other issues have been solidly nailed to the coffin. Only half-baked, unschooled braggarts continue to use his propaganda in the hope that Islam might appear "brilliant" to gullible minds. Muslims often try to sound like Muhammad was an illiterate and could not have possibly heard anything about the "facts" of Human Embryology or related sciences; and then these same Muslim apologists lie to the world that it was only "recently" that such modern science "discovered" the science of the Qur'an which no one knew until now. Cheats!  An attempt has been made here to expose the fraud: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-52865.0.html#msg1116322 

The question I want to ask here, muske, is this: what has your babs787 or other knowledgable Muslims said about the rebuttal in the link above??

The reality is that such ideas were well estblished long before the emergence of Islam. As far back as the early 2nd century (over 350 years before Muhammad was born), there were many well-known scientists whose ideas remain infallible to this very day! The Greek doctor, Galen of Pergamum was a reknowned physician, anatomist, physiologist, philosopher, lexicographer, and a prolific writer. His father Nicon (who was Galen's sole instructor) was himself a mathematician, architect, astronomer, philosopher, and devotee of Greek literature.

What all these point out is that, the fields of medical and biological sciences were well-developed enough to have sound and accurate scientific principles to be upheld right through to the 21st century! Not only so, but even with the blessing of such gifted minds long before the emergence of Islam, Muhammad's 'Allah' got it all wrong in the field of Human Embryology.

I could go on with other issues; but I don't notice your babs787 ever having anything to say at all when his recycled, plagiarized and yet faulty materials have got nothing to say. Instead, he comes coming back to replace reason with rascality; the most recent being the same thing such people like Dr. Naik Zakir have used: "tit for tat".

I also asked questions - have you seen any of his answers?? None. This Muslim thing of first offering al-taqiyya to the public, and then turning to racsality as first aid when their deception is exposed, say nothing good about Islam. Rather, such rasacilly behaviour only betrays the deep-seated deception we have become conversant to in the Islamic world.

This is why I started with this verse:

Prov. 18:17 -- "The first to state his case seems right until his neighbor comes to cross-examine him."

Regards.

@Telly B


It is glaring you and your folks have been crying ever since babs came up with the imcompleteness of the bible.

As for the topic at hand, answers have been supplied but you are the one confusing yourself with your map.

Now to our deluded geographer, where does a muslim in Saudi Arabia faces?

where does a muslim in Nigeria faces?

Where does a muslim in Sudan faces during prayer?


And when you provide answers to the above, you tell me how does a 'qiblah detector' detects where one faces?

Thanks

@babs787,

babs787:

It is glaring you and your folks have been crying ever since babs came up with the imcompleteness of the bible.

Is that why the Muslims in this Forum have had nothing to rebutt in my posts ever since I came on board?

babs787:

As for the topic at hand, answers have been supplied but you are the one confusing yourself with your map.

Please go to the maps and answer the 4 questions I left, thank you.

babs787:

Now to our deluded geographer, where does a muslim in Saudi Arabia faces?

Thanks again for the "deluded" accolade; it still has not said anything about the questions I asked.

babs787:

where does a muslim in Nigeria faces?

Where does a muslim in Sudan faces during prayer?

I don't remember asking these dribbling and convenient questions, so you can gather your own moss and go to the previous page for my questions.

babs787:

And when you provide answers to the above, you tell me how does a 'qiblah detector' detects where one faces?

Simple maps and geographic knowledge simply throw that idea to the bin. It is a "qiblah detector" and not a geographic positioning device like a GPS!!    That is the problem with you guys - convenient tools to hide all the deception. The qiblah detector works in precisely the same way that a metal detector works!!

I challenge you to use a GPS to detect your geographical postions in proximity to the poles - and you will find the difference it makes in this debate!! 

---------------------

Meanwhile, why did you avoid the rebuttal on this link: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-52865.0.html#msg1116322 

@Telly B


I thought that you are up to the task but you are just a player, avoiding issues.

Am asking you again,

Which direction does a muslim in Saudi faces?
What direction does a Muslim in Nigeria faces?


A for the Qiblah detector then please explain better, how does it detect direction to face in prayer regardless of your country.

@babs787,

I notice your antics is to dodge issues and then play your games. Can you please go to the previous page and answer my questions - the arrows are there. You usual play the game of ME-FIRST-YOU-LAST. Sorry, my questions came first!!

babs787:

A for the Qiblah detector then please explain better, how does it detect direction to face in prayer regardless of your country.

Here again:

Simple maps and geographic knowledge simply throw that idea to the bin. It is a "qiblah detector" and not a geographic positioning device like a GPS!!    That is the problem with you guys - convenient tools to hide all the deception. The qiblah detector works in precisely the same way that a metal detector works!!


Place a piece of metal in a large circle, and from any point on the circumference of that circle your metal detector will lead you to the spot where the metal is located!! But a metal detector will not detect geographic positions like a GPS does! Get it now?? 

I cant help but wonder why christians are always bringing up issues they hope will put Islam down and when answers are provided they keep going on and on.
We face the Kaaba because it is away of unification.
We muslims donot change our religion because it is a religion ordained by ALLAH not one created by men.
We cant change our religiuos ethics just because some paople dont like it.
fact that you christians change your religion to suit tour whims does not mean that we should follow suit.
You fixed december for xmas cos it suited the white man, catholics worship the statues of mary cause they feel like.
We will not stop facing the Kaaba because it makes some people uncomfortable.

@eeman,

For your sake, I trust you haven't joined the team of sobbing Muslims.

The issues here being discussed are clearly outlined. Nobody (to my knowledge) has asked Muslims to change the direction of prayer; and to be sure, history has it that even some Christians of the Catholic tradition have prayed facing the East (citations provided upon request!). Have you asked yourself the real reason why Muhammad changed directions from JERUSALEM to MECCA??

I was searching for articles for a paper and stumbled on this Forum. Being Nigerian myself, I wondered why most Nigerian Muslims have continued to recycle the buried propaganda of vexed Muslim apologists like dr. Naik Zakir and Ahmed Deedet?? If you doubt me, ley me ask you yet another question: How did I manage to come up with all the "proof, facts, and evidences" posted here if I hadn't done some research of sorts?? That was how I came to know that Zakir is only a show man - and Muslims who know nothing better have continued to recycle his propaganda.

I'm not going to be on the Forum for very long - so you can dry your tears now. happy afterall??

But before I vamoose, let me assure you that most of the early Muslim traditions have been changed. I'll mention only trivial issues so you don't choke on your sobs.

#1. Muhammad prohibited the making of pictures, threatening that anyone making them will be punished with the severest punishment of Allah on judgement Day. Guess what?? Muslims today pay no attention to his threats; and most of the pictures I posted are from Muslim sites!!

#2. The claim has been made that Muhammad performed miracles. Guess what? Most muslims today simply don't buy into that for the simple reason that none of his were recorded in 'Allah's book - the Qur'an!!'

#3. The rascal joke of Human Embryology in Islam has been debunked - and solidly so!! Guess what?? Scholars in Islamic science no longer pay attention to the show man naik Zakir!!

#4. the claim has been made by the same set of apologists that the Torah of the Qur'an is LOST!! Guess what?? That idea is fast losing popularity among reasonable Muslims who don't stoop so low to make that al-taqiyya claim. In the Hadith, Muhammad handled confessed that he believed in the Torah that the Jews used - the very same one that the Jews still have!!

I could go on and on; and when I say that I have over 400 different questions that you're not likely to find anywhere on the web, believe me that I'm not kidding!! If I post them on the Forum, any search you make on Google will bring you back here gbam!!

So, my sister (if you allow me the term). . . I have many muslim friends here in the UK where I school; but quite a few back home in Nigeria. Guess what?? They are very intelligent people, and none of them have dared to brag about Zakir Naik's articles. None!! To be sure, out of the many friends, only three have to been converted to leave islam and to follow Jesus Christ. I'm still praying for my other friends, although they find me quite a bit of trouble!! Yet we can play football together, blah-blah.

I even have eyes for a Muslim babe. She's been missing in action with her disappearing acts recently. Do you want to take her place?? Honestly, I don't mind. the problem is that she says in Islam, Muslim ladies are not allowed to befriend men (Muslim or Christian men). . . but Muslim men are allowed to marry our women!! I tire!!