Why, in God’s plan of redemption, must Christ be both God and man at the same time?

It is to showcase the possibility of living a sinless life as humans.

Error

ichuka:
Why, in God’s plan of redemption, must Christ be both God and man at the same time?

Man sinned, the wages of sin is eternal death,
A sacrifice in needed to save man from eternal death, a human sacrifice , but it can’t be one with blemish or sin...like all of us...
There is no man holy except Divinity himself..divinity had to synergize with humanity to creat the holy and perfect sacrifice needed for the remission of sins......my view of scriptures though....u might have a contrary view

Man disobeyed God in Adam so Good resolved 'to do it Himself practice".

respect80:
It is to showcase the possibility of living a sinless life as humans.

Did anyone doubt the possibility of God living a sinless life such that God had to prove it?

My friend gigi says. That he came to earth to redeem us of our sins

budaatum:

Did anyone doubt the possibility of God living a sinless life as a human such that God had to prove it?

It depends on the perspective you choose to view it from but even humans do certain things not necessarily because someone doubted their ability or inability to do it.

respect80:


It depends on the perspective you choose to view it from but even humans do certain things not necessarily because someone doubted their ability or inability to do it.

Is God subject to human rules and behaviour?

budaatum:

Is God subject to human rules and behaviour?

Seems like you're trying to sound philosophical here.
I would like to say God does follow rules but we shouldn't forget that freedom and power are two separate things.
Even the word "subject" is both subjective and relative in itself.

For instance, a father may bend to his child's will, would you say the father is subject to the child's will?

1StopRudeness:


Man sinned, the wages of sin is eternal death,
A sacrifice in needed to save man from eternal death, a human sacrifice , but it can’t be one with blemish or sin...like all of us...
There is no man holy except Divinity himself..divinity had to synergize with humanity to creat the holy and perfect sacrifice needed for the remission of sins......my view of scriptures though....u might have a contrary view

This is exactly it, don't diminish the value of the truth by calling it YOUR view.

Indeed, a redemptive sacrifice was required. Blood was required. The covenant of blood is very powerful.

Before then, Israel could only make sacrifices through the Levitical priests. Bull, Sheep, Ox, Goat, even birds (for the poor among them) were used for this. This was the only way to redeem themselves of sin. The high priest would sprinkle the blood of the dead animal on the altar of the tabernacle just outside the holy of holies. This was usually done after the sin of the man or woman had been transferred to the animal by a rite of placing his/her hands on the head of the animal and killing it. The blood was then drained by one of the lower priests.

Ichuka, the above process was not permanent because it had to be done as often as possible.
There were five offerings at that time: The Burnt offering (Blood of a male animal), The meat offering (fine flour with oil to be eaten by the sinner), The sin offering (animal to be eaten by the priest), The Trespass offering (Blood of a female animal), and the Peace offering (The fat of either male or female to be burnt and the blood sprinkled too).

All this would only guarantee sinlessness for as long as the person person keeps himself holy because the blood of animals is lesser than man and can not permanently atone for man. There became a need for a stronger blood covenant, one which would be higher than man. This is why God had to be made flesh through Jesus. God is a spirit being and therefore has no blood, he had to make himself human but at the same time be a completely blameless and sinless human born of a virgin which no man has tainted.
The blood of Jesus encompasses all five offerings and totally redeems sinners for all eternity. In him became a new means of redemption. Instead of going through the priests by making sacrifices in the tabernacle, Jesus became the high priest and the tabernacle in and of itself.

Christ is both God and man to combine the divine nature of the father who seats above all heavens and the least man who walks on the earth, essentially creating a blood link that cannot be broken even by death.

missjo:

This is exactly it, don't diminish the value of the truth by calling it YOUR view.

Indeed, a redemptive sacrifice was required. Blood was required. The covenant of blood is very powerful.

Before then, Israel could only make sacrifices through the Levitical priests. Bull, Sheep, Ox, Goat, even birds (for the poor among them) were used for this. This was the only way to redeem themselves of sin. The high priest would sprinkle the blood of the dead animal on the altar of the tabernacle just outside the holy of holies. This was usually done after the sin of the man or woman had been transferred to the animal by a rite of placing his/her hands on the head of the animal and killing it. The blood was then drained by one of the lower priests.

Ichuka, the above process was not permanent because it had to be done as often as possible.
There were five offerings at that time: The Burnt offering (Blood of a male animal), The meat offering (fine flour with oil to be eaten by the sinner), The sin offering (animal to be eaten by the priest), The Trespass offering (Blood of a female animal), and the Peace offering (The fat of either male or female to be burnt and the blood sprinkled too).

All this would only guarantee sinlessness for as long as the person person keeps himself holy because the blood of animals is lesser than man and can not permanently atone for man. There became a need for a stronger blood covenant, one which would be higher than man. This is why God had to be made flesh through Jesus. God is a spirit being and therefore has no blood, he had to make himself human but at the same time be a completely blameless and sinless human born of a virgin which no man has tainted.
The blood of Jesus encompasses all five offerings and totally redeems sinners for all eternity. In him became a new means of redemption. Instead of going through the priests by making sacrifices in the tabernacle, Jesus became the high priest and the tabernacle in and of itself.

Christ is both God and man to combine the divine nature of the father who seats above all heavens and the least man who walks on the earth, essentially creating a blood link that cannot be broken even by death.

Beautiful!!!
I will add a pinch later to these
Nice one!

1StopRudeness:


Man sinned, the wages of sin is eternal death,
A sacrifice in needed to save man from eternal death, a human sacrifice , but it can’t be one with blemish or sin...like all of us...
There is no man holy except Divinity himself..divinity had to synergize with humanity to creat the holy and perfect sacrifice needed for the remission of sins......my view of scriptures though....u might have a contrary view

Your view is brief but correct!
Nice!!

respect80:
It is to showcase the possibility of living a sinless life as humans.

Hmmmm
You are right bro
Sinless life is possible.

Why, in God’s plan of redemption, must Christ be both God and man at the same time?


Suppose there are three persons: missjo,respect80 and ,1stoprudeness.1stoprudeness has sinned, and missjo asks respect80 to die for 1stoprudeness.This would show that missjo has love toward 1stoprudeness and that 1stoprudeness has answered the requirements of the law. however, this is rather unjust to respect80. I sinned, and God caused Christ to die for me. Although this shows God’s love and although I meet the requirements of the law, this is rather unjust to Christ. Only when Christ is both God and man is this just.

First, we need to know what forgiveness is. Forgiveness means that the one who forgives takes the loss upon himself. It means that the forgiver is suffering the loss of the forgiven one. The loss is on the side of the one who forgives. For instance, if someone owes you N100 and you forgive him, we can say that you bore the loss since you suffered the loss of N100.

In God’s plan of redemption, Christ should not be a third party. If Christ is a third party, then God is unrighteous toward Him because He has no sin and does not deserve to die. The Bible tells us that man has sinned and that God is the One whom man has sinned against. The relationship here is a two-party relationship between God and man. Asking a third party to die in a substitutionary way may, perhaps, satisfy God’s righteousness, and it may meet the law’s demand on man, but this is rather unrighteous for the third party. It is righteous only because Christ is both God and man.
In order for Christ to not be a third party, He must be God since He Himself is the One being offended. The work of propitiation for sins is righteous only because Christ is God. Conversely, since the work of propitiation for sins is righteous, Christ must be God because only the one who is offended can forgive the one who offends. Who can say forgiveness is unrighteous? Christ is God; He is the offended One and, therefore, He can forgive men.

Romans 7:10 says, “And the commandment, which was unto life, this very commandment was found to me to be unto death.” Romans 6:23 says, “For the wages of sin is death.” These verses show us that a person has to fully keep the law in order to live; otherwise he must die. In order for the Lord to make us live, He had to suffer the penalty of sin; He had to die. However, 1 Timothy 6:16 says that God alone has immortality. Therefore, Christ must also be a man in order to die for us. He had to take a body upon Himself so that He could die for us. He is God; this makes His salvation of men righteous. He is a man; this makes His salvation of men possible.

missjo:

This is exactly it, don't diminish the value of the truth by calling it YOUR view.

Indeed, a redemptive sacrifice was required. Blood was required. The covenant of blood is very powerful.

Before then, Israel could only make sacrifices through the Levitical priests. Bull, Sheep, Ox, Goat, even birds (for the poor among them) were used for this. This was the only way to redeem themselves of sin. The high priest would sprinkle the blood of the dead animal on the altar of the tabernacle just outside the holy of holies. This was usually done after the sin of the man or woman had been transferred to the animal by a rite of placing his/her hands on the head of the animal and killing it. The blood was then drained by one of the lower priests.

Ichuka, the above process was not permanent because it had to be done as often as possible.
There were five offerings at that time: The Burnt offering (Blood of a male animal), The meat offering (fine flour with oil to be eaten by the sinner), The sin offering (animal to be eaten by the priest), The Trespass offering (Blood of a female animal), and the Peace offering (The fat of either male or female to be burnt and the blood sprinkled too).

All this would only guarantee sinlessness for as long as the person person keeps himself holy because the blood of animals is lesser than man and can not permanently atone for man. There became a need for a stronger blood covenant, one which would be higher than man. This is why God had to be made flesh through Jesus. God is a spirit being and therefore has no blood, he had to make himself human but at the same time be a completely blameless and sinless human born of a virgin which no man has tainted.
The blood of Jesus encompasses all five offerings and totally redeems sinners for all eternity. In him became a new means of redemption. Instead of going through the priests by making sacrifices in the tabernacle, Jesus became the high priest and the tabernacle in and of itself.

Christ is both God and man to combine the divine nature of the father who seats above all heavens and the least man who walks on the earth, essentially creating a blood link that cannot be broken even by death.

First, no animal sacrifice ever redeemed anyone. Animal sacrifices beginning from the coats of skin in the Garden of Eden until the Temple Sacrifices before the Cross were all deliberate acts of identification with the Perfect Sacrifice of the Lamb of God when He would come. That is, those who sacrificed animals per God's command were deliberately demonstrating their Faith in God to keep His Promise to provide a Perfect Substitute to take away their sin. So, the ritual itself had no power, only what it meant mattered.

Because the ritual did not ever redeem anyone (Hebrews 10:1-4), nobody went to Heaven into the Presence of the Father (cf. Isaiah 14:17) until the Lord Jesus came and paid the price for sin and took all dead believers of old with Him into the Third Heaven (Ephesians 4:8 ).

As for the question itself, only God can save us (Isaiah 43:11), and only a human being can answer for the sins of human beings (Hebrews 10:5, see also all the laws in the Old Covenant about redemption of slaves and property).

ichuka:
Why, in God’s plan of redemption, must Christ be both God and man at the same time?


Suppose there are three persons: missjo,respect80 and ,1stoprudeness.1stoprudeness has sinned, and missjo asks respect80 to die for 1stoprudeness.This would show that missjo has love toward 1stoprudeness and that 1stoprudeness has answered the requirements of the law. however, this is rather unjust to respect80. I sinned, and God caused Christ to die for me. Although this shows God’s love and although I meet the requirements of the law, this is rather unjust to Christ. Only when Christ is both God and man is this just.

First, we need to know what forgiveness is. Forgiveness means that the one who forgives takes the loss upon himself. It means that the forgiver is suffering the loss of the forgiven one. The loss is on the side of the one who forgives. For instance, if someone owes you N100 and you forgive him, we can say that you bore the loss since you suffered the loss of N100.

In God’s plan of redemption, Christ should not be a third party. If Christ is a third party, then God is unrighteous toward Him because He has no sin and does not deserve to die. The Bible tells us that man has sinned and that God is the One whom man has sinned against. The relationship here is a two-party relationship between God and man. Asking a third party to die in a substitutionary way may, perhaps, satisfy God’s righteousness, and it may meet the law’s demand on man, but this is rather unrighteous for the third party. It is righteous only because Christ is both God and man.
In order for Christ to not be a third party, He must be God since He Himself is the One being offended. The work of propitiation for sins is righteous only because Christ is God. Conversely, since the work of propitiation for sins is righteous, Christ must be God because only the one who is offended can forgive the one who offends. Who can say forgiveness is unrighteous? Christ is God; He is the offended One and, therefore, He can forgive men.

Romans 7:10 says, “And the commandment, which was unto life, this very commandment was found to me to be unto death.” Romans 6:23 says, “For the wages of sin is death.” These verses show us that a person has to fully keep the law in order to live; otherwise he must die. In order for the Lord to make us live, He had to suffer the penalty of sin; He had to die. However, 1 Timothy 6:16 says that God alone has immortality. Therefore, Christ must also be a man in order to die for us. He had to take a body upon Himself so that He could die for us. He is God; this makes His salvation of men righteous. He is a man; this makes His salvation of men possible.

U are right and I absolutely understand your position.

I usually don't like to engage people in religious debates. Whatever gives joy to any man, let him continue in it until the Saviour comes.

Hello, missjo. You might have to mail the mods (see link at bottom of the Religion board) or the supermods (see link at bottom of the Home page) or mail OAM4J directly to untag your post and release your account from the ban. The anti-spambot has been overly sensitive for a little while now. The post of mine that you quoted was also tagged and I was banned for it. That is probably why yours was too. But I did all three things above to have the post untagged and get out of the ban.

The gospel stories comes from ancient tales about marduk the son of Enki.. It was Athanasius at the council of Nicea who wanted to satisfy all parties after almost two years of arguing said marduk was both God and man..

Ihedinobi3, perhaps my use of the term redeemed gave another interpretation but you should see my point in that comment nonetheless.
The sacrifice, the blood.

missjo:
Ihedinobi3, perhaps my use of the term redeemed gave another interpretation but you should see my point in that comment nonetheless.
The sacrifice, the blood.

I think I did see the point. As I have said before, you appear to have a fair grasp on these things, but there is a bit of baggage apparent in your comprehension of them, so I offer my responses to try to clear things up.

It was not that the animal sacrifices were found wanting in some way that the Lord Jesus came. That is my concern. The animal sacrifices were never the answer to man's sin. They were merely placeholders for the Sacrifice of the Lord Jesus. It was the idea that the ritual itself had power that led many of the Israelites and even the other nations of the world into a self-righteousness that cost them their Salvation, with all of them ending up in gross paganism as a result.

ichuka:
Why, in God’s plan of redemption, must Christ be both God and man at the same time?

"And I sought for a man among them, that should make up the hedge,
and stand in the gap before me for the land, that I should not destroy it: but I found none
(i.e. I looked for someone who might rebuild the wall of righteousness that guards the land.
I searched for someone to stand in the gap in the wall so I wouldn’t have to destroy the land, but I found no one.)/i]"
- Ezekiel 22:30

"[i]He saw that there was no man—He was amazed that there was no one—to intercede;
so His own arm brought salvation, and His own righteousness sustained Him."
- Isaiah 59:16

"I was amazed to see that no one intervened to help the oppressed.
So I myself stepped in to save them with my strong arm, and my wrath sustained me
(i.e. I looked, but there was no one to help; I was shocked because there was no one offering support.
So my right arm accomplished deliverance or achieved salvation for me, my raging anger drove me on)"
- Isaiah 63:5

ichuka, you must have quite a lot of times, heard the saying that "If you want something done right, do it yourself", well none, nobody, no angel out of the whole angelic hosts of heaven, nor no man out of the whole world wide, offered to accept the challenge to help man get returned back to man's original status before the fall, so God resorted to DIY

ichuka, you know that Christ, means Saviour, right?. So if you do, how then do suppose God will be able to pull this off this God's redemptive work, if Christ isnt God and man, hmm? Give this some thought ichuka

missjo:
Ihedinobi3, perhaps my use of the term redeemed gave another interpretation but you should see my point in that comment nonetheless.
The sacrifice, the blood.

missjojo/Ihedinobi3, why is blood, at all, necessary in the redemptive work? I think I need to clear the cobwebs in that question and re-ask it all over again.

1/ Without bringing into the equation, animal blood sacrifices temporarily covering up sin, why is blood, at all, necesaary in the redemptive work?
2/ How did God successfully go about the redemptive work for man with the blood of Jesus Christ?
3/ What is it that's specific, constitutional and instrinic in the blood of Jesus Christ that makes it to be required in the redemptive work?

As Good pleased!

ichuka:
Why, in God’s plan of redemption, must Christ be both God and man at the same time?

This is the basis of Christianity. But redemption spiritually speaking is Spiritual Freedom which is liberation from Karma and Reincarnation possible only via the Sound Current.

BetterChurch:


This is the basis of Christianity. But redemption spiritually speaking is Spiritual Freedom which is liberation from Karma and Reincarnation possible only via the Sound Current.

Hmmm,are you a Christain?

ichuka:

Hmmm,are you a Christain?

mmmHhhh Are you?

ichuka:
Hmmm, are you a Christain?

BetterChurch:
mmmHhhh Are you?

Nobi fight ooo nau, abeg.

MuttleyLaff:
"And I sought for a man among them, that should make up the hedge,
and stand in the gap before me for the land, that I should not destroy it: but I found none
(i.e. I looked for someone who might rebuild the wall of righteousness that guards the land.
I searched for someone to stand in the gap in the wall so I wouldn’t have to destroy the land, but I found no one.)/i]"
- Ezekiel 22:30

"[i]He saw that there was no man—He was amazed that there was no one—to intercede;
so His own arm brought salvation, and His own righteousness sustained Him."
- Isaiah 59:16

"I was amazed to see that no one intervened to help the oppressed.
So I myself stepped in to save them with my strong arm, and my wrath sustained me
(i.e. I looked, but there was no one to help; I was shocked because there was no one offering support.
So my right arm accomplished deliverance or achieved salvation for me, my raging anger drove me on)"
- Isaiah 63:5

ichuka, you must have quite a lot of times, heard the saying that "If you want something done right, do it yourself", well none, nobody, no angel out of the whole angelic hosts of heaven, nor no man out of the whole world wide, offered to accept the challenge to help man get returned back to man's original status before the fall, so God resorted to DIY

ichuka, you know that Christ, means Saviour, right?. So if you do, how then do suppose God will be able to pull this off this God's redemptive work, if Christ isnt God and man, hmm? Give this some thought ichuka

missjojo/Ihedinobi3, why is blood, at all, necessary in the redemptive work? I think I need to clear the cobwebs in that question and re-ask it all over again.

1/ Without bringing into the equation, animal blood sacrifices temporarily covering up sin, why is blood, at all, necesaary in the redemptive work?
2/ How did God successfully go about the redemptive work for man with the blood of Jesus Christ?

Hi bro
Will come back to these later.
Busy now
Thanks

BetterChurch:


mmmHhhh Are you?

Lol

MuttleyLaff:


Nobi fight ooo nau, abeg.

He' sound like an eckist