The grail message is a work written in the 1920s by a German, Oskar Bernhardt by name, he adopted the Arabian-Persian name of Abd Ru shin (Servant of the Light). One the highlights of his work id that he distinguished clearly the difference between the Son of God (Jesus) and the Son of Man (Holy spirit). He went further to explain that this Son of Man will incarnate on earth just as Jesus did. He wrote beautifully about what to expect about the time whem the Holy Spirit (according to him) wil incarnate.

Now the reason for this lecture is that, for some time now I believed completely the work of the Grail Message but not until I came across the 19th century works of Baha' Ullah proclaiming exactly the same theory but with the difference that he is the expected One. The person of Baha'Ullah has a striking similarity to Abd Ru Shin:

First, Baha'Ullah was a Persian and was persecuted much by the government. Second, he established the Bahai Faith religion, a releigion that is expected to unify the world. Baha'Ullah's works are very identical the grail message.

My point is, could it be that Abd ru shin was a commissioned disciple of Baha'Ullah? If not why the similarity.
I back it up I would  have uploaded a work (GEMS OF DIVINE MYSTERIES) written by Baha'Ullah in response to a seeker's question, but file is too large.clearly.
You can email me at mail2oke@gmail.com and I will send it to you. Or better still you can download from http://reference.bahai.org/download/gdm-en-pdf.zip
Note: This work was written in 1863, before Abd ru Shin was born.

@agi-tuedor

It is my perception that Abd-ru-shin was not a disciple of Baha'Ullah. Abd-ru-shin drew His message directly from God. Every message that comes from God is the same, and thus similar irrespective of who passed it down. The Truth comes only from God and it is not just similar but exactly the same thing; thus all religions are actually based on exactly the same thing.

The reason why we have opposing doctrines in the different religions of today is due to the fact that mankind tampers with the Truth and add things to it. Thus it is the things that man added to the doctrines that give rise to the difference in the doctrines.
If you remove the false things added to the message of Isiah; Mohamed; Buddha and etc, you will discover that these doctrines are basically the same thing, only expressed in a manner adjusted to the culture and maturity of the people it was given. All these messages in their pure form are completely in harmony with the message of Jesus who was the Truth Himself. Where the doctrines have not been tampared it, there we see similarities because these doctrines are the same thing, as I have expressed above.

So many called ones have been sent by God to different peoples of the earth; to prepare the people for the coming of the son of man, who would bring judgement. Isiah and so many others was sent to the Jews; Buddha was sent to the ancient Indians; Lao Tse to the ancient Chinese; and Mohamed to the Arabians. All these prophets spoke and some of them wrote about the coming of the son of man; even the son of God (Jesus) spoke about this coming of the son of man(the spirit of Truth).

The knowledge of the son of man and His coming is very important to the spiritual development of mankind; hence so many Prophets were sent to prepare mankind for this coming; Jesus in His parable of the ten virgins expressed the importance of being spiritually awake so as not to miss the son of man (the bride groom) when He comes. Darkness fought with all its might against this knowledge which is very important for mankind. Darkness fought against the prophets and often it succeeded lulling the prophet to sleep even before such a prophet realized his mission. Some start in purity, but succumb under the constant attack and temption of darkness. A prophet, set to prophesy about the coming of the son of man, may come to spiritual awakening, and may come to knowledge of the awaited son of man, and may start prophesying about the coming of the son of man; if he is not on his guard he may succumb to the temptation of believing the he(the prophet) is the son of man whom he spoke or speak about. Prophets offten become victims of their own vanity, even those that started in purity. It happens that often the prophet forgets that he is only a servant, he then places himself on the pedestal, and becomes the center of his prophesy. Darkness would always find a way to caress the individual's need for importance. Sometimes the prophet is so ridiculed and looked down upon by everybody, and in his quest to show his worth, gain respect and draw more followers, he would declare himself as the one(the son of man) whom he spoke about. And were the prophet so modest as not to allow the need for recognition or respect to drive him into the arms of darkness; darkness may approach such a modest prophet in the form of flatterers. Followers would throng around the prophet offering him gifts and trying to bribe him even with kind or flattering words. They would ask him questions like "Are you the one?" Just as they asked John the Baptist. Overtime and sometimes due to hardship the prophet may succumb to these flatterers and seek to draw attention to himself rather than the one whom he had been sent to prophecy. Most of the times this this is not intentionally done; the prophet begins to see visions where he is the saviour; in all honesty he may consider these visions as having came from God. Whitout knowing that, lost in the comfortable arms of darkness, his ego which has been so much flattered had cut him off from his connection with the light. His visions are nothing but figments of his inflated ego; he may go as far as calling himself the son of God or God himself!
Also, sometimes followers, in their need, kneel and stretch their hands to the prophet; praying for a miracle from the prophet. The prophet, out of sympathy or out of the pride of being a deliverer or a miracle worker, may stretch fort his hands to towards this throng who pray to him for his help. These prayers take on form in the beyond and approach the prophet, and if he allows these forms to attach themselves to his ethereal body. They will weigh him down, pushing him further into the realm of darkness and away from the Light. These prayers and the thought-forms of the throng around such a prophet will create and etherail environment or kingdom around him. An ethereal kingdom where the prophet is God or son of God; and this is the environment or kingdom that the prophet and his followers see in their dreams and visions. This prophet and his throng of masses may be caught up in this environment after the pass on to the great beyond.

This is why some genuine prophets feel the need to live in isolation of the masses. This why Prophets like John the baptise did not seek to live in affluence or in the confort of material things. He did not indulge in the flattery of the masses, neither did he seek the recognition or respect of the rich. Any weakness for anything material, be it money, need for respect or recognition, is like a hole in the boat of the prophet. Sultry currents of darkness will always find such holes and enter through it and consequently sink the boat.

Darkness will always look for an opportunity to lead people astray. Perhaps, this may have been the situation with Baha' Ullah; I don't know and I'm not judging him.
Baha'Ullah may have prophesied about the coming of the son of man, indeed this prophesy is found in almost all religions, but Baha'Ullah was definitely wrong if he taught that he(Baha'Ullah) was the son of man.

When Abd-ru-shin spoke about the son of man, He was not talking about Baha'Ullah. This I guarantee you.

@justcool
Has the son of man come or are we still waiting?is he's coming physical or spiritual?

If physical how will you know he is the one&how different is his mission from JESUS.no offense intended.

@justcool

I understand perfectly what you said. It explains why adherents of certain religions can "project themselves" into planes and see whatever they expect to see.
You said Abd-ru-shin was not speaking of Baha'Ullah, you then is he speaking of? Himself, probably?

I was listening to a radio broadcast by Brotherhood of th Cross and Star, the speaker spoke extensively on this subject, even quoting Oskar Bernhardt (Abd-ru-shin), but concluded that the founder of the Brotherhood is the fulfillment of the prophecy. Now, from what you've explained, the prophets themselves allowed vanity to replace truth. In the case of O.O (founder of the Brotherhood), according to the speaker, he did not proclaim himself thus. It had already been prophesied over five hundred years in his community (somewhere around Calabar, Nigeria) that a great personality will be born there. When he (O.O) was born, there was expectional miracles through him, even as a baby, like a blind woman recieving sight immediately after holding him, as so much more. What do you have to say about this?

One more thing. The human beings on earth are known to be naive and gullible, wouldn't we, in order not to fall, be spared of impostors in this important of all events? (Assuming they are really impostors).

justcool:

@agi-tuedor

It is my perception that Abd-ru-shin was not a disciple of Baha'Ullah. Abd-ru-shin drew His message directly from God.

I have two questions for you, and the one flows from the other.

1. Do you believe that the belief in biblical inerrancy by many christians could limit their understanding of certain truths?

2. If so, do you not see a corresponding danger in your belief in the inerrancy of the Grail Message and its authour?

Thanks.

agi-tuedor:

The grail message is a work written in the 1920s by a German, Oskar Bernhardt by name, he adopted the Arabian-Persian name of Abd Ru shin (Servant of the Light). One the highlights of his work id that he distinguished clearly the difference between the Son of God (Jesus) and the Son of Man (Holy spirit). He went further to explain that this Son of Man will incarnate on earth just as Jesus did. He wrote beautifully about what to expect about the time whem the Holy Spirit (according to him) wil incarnate.

Now the reason for this lecture is that, for some time now I believed completely the work of the Grail Message but not until I came across the 19th century works of Baha' Ullah proclaiming exactly the same theory but with the difference that he is the expected One. The person of Baha'Ullah has a striking similarity to Abd Ru Shin:

First, Baha'Ullah was a Persian and was persecuted much by the government. Second, he established the Bahai Faith religion, a releigion that is expected to unify the world. Baha'Ullah's works are very identical the grail message.

My point is, could it be that Abd ru shin was a commissioned disciple of Baha'Ullah? If not why the similarity.
I back it up I would  have uploaded a work (GEMS OF DIVINE MYSTERIES) written by Baha'Ullah in response to a seeker's question, but file is too large.clearly.
You can email me at mail2oke@gmail.com and I will send it to you. Or better still you can download from http://reference.bahai.org/download/gdm-en-pdf.zip
Note: This work was written in 1863, before Abd ru Shin was born.

Hi Agituedor,

My view is that Justcool has addressed the point you raised. The prophecy about the son of man is a living prophecy that vibrates in creation. Many specially called ones were permitted access to this information in different era and epoch. Thus the coming of the son of man can be found in various religious or spiritual traditions. However the rendition of this prophecy varies depending on the particular tradition and epoch but those whose inner faculties of perception are alive will perceive the Truth in spite of the veils which the followers of various traditions have woven around the truth.

Whatever is true in any spiritual tradition will be found in the Grail Message. In my perception the living Grail Message contain all the Truth and thus grains of Truth in other traditions will also be found in the Grail Message. But the Truth of the Grail Message cannot be found by reading the Grail Message a billion times or by been an earthly adherent of the Grail Message rather the Truth will be found if ones spiritual faculties are open. Then, such a spirit will be able to go beyond the words and forms with which Abd-ru-shin cloaked the Truth. Then such a seeker will perceive in real-time the Truth that Abd-ru.Shin brings in the Grail Message. This real time experiencing gives the seeker knowledge  and such a seeker becomes a knowing one. When one is permitted by the grace of God to know, these questions and similar ones will no more arise for such a knowing one can follow in spirit the teachings of all prophets of God, the Grail Message as well as the teachings of Jesus, the son of God. All teachings in their pure state were once willed by God, and adapted to spiritual maturity and culture of the particular people. These teachings in their pure form were to form a single flight of steps leading to the pedestal on which the Truth stands. The flight of steps are not the Truth but steps towards the Truth.

A spiritual experiencing of creation will make this clear to any seeker so that questions concerning similarities, and comparisons between the steps to the Truth and the Truth itself will cease. My advice to all seekers is to experience creation and not be a spectator in creation. In experiencing creation, they will find all the answers to all their questions. The grace of God accompanies all genuine seekers and they will recognize the Truth when their spirit is ready. Stay blessed.

m_nwankwo:

Hi Agituedor,

My view is that Justcool has addressed the point you raised. The prophecy about the son of man is a living prophecy that vibrates in creation. Many specially called ones were permitted access to this information in different era and epoch. Thus the coming of the son of man can be found in various religious or spiritual traditions. However the rendition of this prophecy varies depending on the particular tradition and epoch but those whose inner faculties of perception are alive will perceive the Truth in spite of the veils which the followers of various traditions have woven around the truth.

Whatever is true in any spiritual tradition will be found in the Grail Message. In my perception the living Grail Message contain all the Truth and thus grains of Truth in other traditions will also be found in the Grail Message. But the Truth of the Grail Message cannot be found by reading the Grail Message a billion times or by been an earthly adherent of the Grail Message rather the Truth will be found<b> if ones spiritual faculties are open.</b> Then, such a spirit will be able to go beyond the words and forms with which Abd-ru-shin cloaked the Truth. Then such a seeker will perceive in real-time the Truth that Abd-ru.Shin brings in the Grail Message. This real time experiencing gives the seeker knowledge  and such a seeker becomes a knowing one. When one is permitted by the grace of God to know, these questions and similar ones will no more arise for such a knowing one can follow in spirit the teachings of all prophets of God, the Grail Message as well as the teachings of Jesus, the son of God. All teachings in their pure state were once willed by God, and adapted to spiritual maturity and culture of the particular people. These teachings in their pure form were to form a single flight of steps leading to the pedestal on which the Truth stands. The flight of steps are not the Truth but steps towards the Truth.

A spiritual experiencing of creation will make this clear to any seeker so that questions concerning similarities, and comparisons between the steps to the Truth and the Truth itself will cease. My advice to all seekers is to experience creation and not be a spectator in creation. In experiencing creation, they will find all the answers to all their questions. The grace of God accompanies all genuine seekers and they will recognize the Truth when their spirit is ready. Stay blessed.

Sir, you laid emphasis on experiencing creation by means of the spiritual faculties. May I ask what you mean by spiritual faculties and does one develop them?
It seems to me personally that neither books nor seminars can fully satisfy my urge for the truth; so I think the next frontier will be acquiring some spiritual faculties. What advice do you have for me?
Thanks.

Cmanforall:

@justcool
Has the son of man come or are we still waiting?is he's coming physical or spiritual?

@Cmanforall
Thanks for your questions.
It is very important that each individual recognize the son of man. Giving you my own recognition will not help you; at best you can only accept it blindly. And blind faith is wrong; one should only accept what he/she has experienced to be the Truth.

Many people believe that Jesus is the son of God just because their pastor, their parents, their friends or their bible said so. These people are as good as having not recognized Jesus. There is a difference between "who do men say that I am?" and "who do you say that I am?" The second question is very deep and it carries a lot of weight because it deals with your own recognition and not what you hear from others. It can be rephrased to, "who have you recognized me to be?"

And such recognition can only come from God, provided the individual asking still has oil in his lamp, i.e. provided is spirit is still alive within him. And not like the five foolish virgins who forgot to put oil in their lamps and consequently missed the bridegroom.

The oil represents an alive spirit which like on oil in a lamp can burn to give off light. A spirit alive can light up the interval’s life through the intuitive perception, allowing the individual to see what others would not see.

All you need to do is to be filled with the desire to live in accord with the laws of God; and pray to God to open your eyes to the recognition of the son of man. Also read the Grail Message. If you read with an alert spirit while praying for God’s guidance, your eyes will be opened to the recognition of the son of man.

His coming is both physical and spiritual; while His mission is spiritual, He will incarnate physically on earth like Jesus.

The Grail message answers clearly, all questions concerning the son of man, His coming and His mission.

Cmanforall:

If physical how will you know he is the one&how different is his mission from JESUS.no offense intended.

While the Grail Message answers all these questions, I will just throw a few wards to you, in order to appear rude or snobbish; I will invite you to read what I wrote earlier on this forum about the son of man:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-173782.0.html#msg2830536

Read the Grail Message, for what I wrote is only my perception. For a more comprehensive view and a better understanding read the Grail Message for yourself, and base your view on the Grail Message.

Thanks and remain blessed.

agi-tuedor:

@justcool

I understand perfectly what you said. It explains why adherents of certain religions can "project themselves" into planes and see whatever they expect to see.
You said Abd-ru-shin was not speaking of Baha'Ullah, you then is he speaking of? Himself, probably?

@ agi-tuedor
Thanks again for your questions. Refer to my reply to Cmanforall, above, and you will see why it will not benefit us for me to shear my recognition of who the son of man is. Coming to this recognition yourself is a great and joyous experience that will change your life; I will not deny you this experience. Just read the Grail Message with and alert spirit(intuition) and pray to God for guidance.

agi-tuedor:

I was listening to a radio broadcast by Brotherhood of th Cross and Star, the speaker spoke extensively on this subject, even quoting Oskar Bernhardt (Abd-ru-shin), but concluded that the founder of the Brotherhood is the fulfillment of the prophecy. Now, from what you've explained, the prophets themselves allowed vanity to replace truth. In the case of O.O (founder of the Brotherhood), according to the speaker, he did not proclaim himself thus. It had already been prophesied over five hundred years in his community (somewhere around Calabar, Nigeria) that a great personality will be born there. When he (O.O) was born, there was expectional miracles through him, even as a baby, like a blind woman recieving sight immediately after holding him, as so much more. What do you have to say about this?

I have read where members of the Brotherhood of the Cross and star state that O.O. is the fulfillment of Abd-ru-shin prophecy concerning the son of man; and I can categorically tell you that they are wrong. Abd-ru-shin was not speaking about O.O. You don’t need to listen to their words very keenly to perceive that they do not understand the Grail Message. They, the brotherhood of the cross and star, would seize any prophecy they can lay hold on, even the ones they don’t understand and try to use it to validate the blasphemy that O.O is the son of man.

Usually I don’t judge people or leaders of religions but it is my perception that O.O is a human spirit, and consequently cannot lay claim to Divinity.

The almighty did send many called ones to Africa, and even Nigeria; as usual most of them failed but O.O is not one of the prophets sent by God, and this is my perception. It is my perception that O.O is not a prophet.

Indeed, almost in all tribes across Africa, a called one was sent to prepare the people for the son of man. Some of them became great politicians who fourth for the material and political benefit of their people. But they failed since they didn’t recognize the spiritual part of their calling. I will not mention names, but among the Yoruba was one who fulfilled his mission. But unfortunately, the ones that succeed in their missions end up living almost in oblivion or obscurity, because modesty does not allow them to draw attention to themselves, unknown and uncelebrated by the masses who only recognize the failed ones as heroes.

First, you and I were not there when O.O was prophesied over five hundred years ago. How do you know this alleged prophesy ever happened? Even if it did happen, how do you know that it was not a prophesy concerning another person that the brotherhood high jacked, just as they High jacked the prophesy of the son of man? And also, being prophesied over five hundred years ago does not make one a prophet sent by God. Many people claim that Nostrademos predicted the birth Hitler; does this make Hitler the son of man?

It depends on what you mean by miracles; if you tell me the particular miracles than I can tell if it’s possible or not. It is possible to heal the sick by laying hands on them; this does not necessarily mean that the healer was a servant of God or sent by God. This actually has a lot to do with the health of the healer or the condition of his physical body, and non physical bodies. Some people are gifted with physical bodies that direct energies or channel healing energies which already exsist in creation to a sick person. This has nothing to do with being a servant of God or being a prophet. Read about Rasputin, the Russian healer. This is a totally different way of healing. Just as some people poses physical bodies that allow the soul to detach or experience the non-physical even while awake. These have nothing to do with being righteous or being sent from God.

Humans have an unhealthy fascination about such abilities which are in reality not spiritual abilities but owe thier existence more to the physical body, or the astral body. Abilities like clairvoyance, astral travel, being able to see the future and etc. These abilities do not necessarily denote an advanced spirit or a called one.     

agi-tuedor:

One more thing. The human beings on earth are known to be naive and gullible, wouldn't we, in order not to fall, be spared of impostors in this important of all events? (Assuming they are really impostors).

I don’t know what you mean, but it doesn’t lie with God to spare us impostors. It lies solely with us, mankind, to spare ourselves of impostors. God will not take away our free will because it is an intricate part of our spirit. A man can use his will however he chooses but he remains responsible for the consequences. A man can decide to be a swindler, he can decide to claim to be God and lead others astray; but rest assured that he can never escape the consequence of this deception.

Our duty is to weigh everything we hear with our intuition; put them to the most inflexible scrutiny. Keep our ability to perceive intuitively alive and pray to God, always, for guidance. One who proceeds this way (watch and pray) will not fall in any such temptations.

Justcool,

you've said it all.

Deep Sight:

I have two questions for you, and the one flows from the other.

1. Do you believe that the belief in biblical inerrancy by many christians could limit their understanding of certain truths?

2. If so, do you not see a corresponding danger in your belief in the inerrancy of the Grail Message and its authour?

Thanks.

when i was reading the grail message after studying a lot on Metaphysics studies, i could only conclude that this message came from on-high, cos who could have possessed such knowledge to explain creation and its workings to we humans.

i rest my case, though i know you've finished the whole 3 volumes, but you still have lots of reservations concerning the personality of the author, well i hope it wont be too late for you.
As for me, i've understood the very sentence in the grail message and my prayer has always been may the creator gives the strength to live according to his words.

justcool:


It is very important that each individual recognize the son of man.

If one has love embedded in his heart and live according to the disctates of his conscience, what need is there to recognise the identity of ANY spiritual or divine being? ? ? ? ?

Is everything not completed in the simplicity of love? ? ? ? ?

Is it not rather the creation of unnecessary cults of legend about human beings that necessitates any special recognition of any particular being? ? ? ?

For I am firmly persuaded that even one who recognises NO spiritual or divine being (such as a pure buddhist) may remain on the right path so long as he believes in and practices genuine love.

The whole idea of "recognising" any particular being as "special" in the specific terms that you referred to, is nothing short of vain-glorious idolatry, in my humble opinion.

justcool:

They, the brotherhood of the cross and star, would seize any prophecy they can lay hold on, even the ones they don’t understand and try to use it to validate the blasphemy that O.O is the son of man.

It may equally be asserted that you blaspheme when you assert the human authour of the Grail Message to be both the Son of Man and the Holy Spirit - especially considering that in endorsing the doctrine of the Trinity, despite your protestations and denials to the contrary, you unwittingly equate the human writer of the Grail Message to Almighty God. If THAT is not blasphemy, I do not know what else is.

Usually I don’t judge people or leaders of religions but it is my perception that O.O is a human spirit, and consequently cannot lay claim to Divinity.

Usually I don’t judge people or leaders of religions but it is my perception that Abd Ru Shin is a human spirit, and consequently cannot lay claim to Divinity.

Even if it did happen, how do you know that it was not a prophesy concerning another person that the brotherhood high jacked, just as they High jacked the prophesy of the son of man?

How do we know that the writer of the Grail Mesage has not hi-jacked the self same prophecy for himself in the same fashion as many others have done before and after him - presenting vastly similar teachings as he did as set out in the OP.

It will not do for you to simply state that "you have come to such and such recognition about his identity" - EXACTLY because the followers of O.O. may just as well also state that they have also come to such and such recognition regarding his identity.

PLEASE DO PARDON ME MY INQUIRIES: It simply remains bizzarre for me to observe you tacitly condemn others for the EXACT SAME blasphemy that you have appropriated to the founder of your own religfious sect - namely - the presumption of divinity.

I did also note that you have avoided this query -

Deep Sight:

I have two questions for you, and the one flows from the other.

1. Do you believe that the belief in biblical inerrancy by many christians could limit their understanding of certain truths?

2. If so, do you not see a corresponding danger in your belief in the inerrancy of the Grail Message and its authour?

Thanks.

@justcool
I can't thank you enough for the link & I know sometimes it is tiring regurgitating the same answers over again,but bear with us.I pray God continues to give you strength.Thanks

agi-tuedor:

    Sir, you laid emphasis on experiencing creation by means of the spiritual faculties. May I ask what you mean by spiritual faculties and does one develop them?
   It seems to me personally that neither books nor seminars can fully satisfy my urge for the truth; so I think the next frontier will be acquiring some spiritual faculties. What advice do you have for me?
Thanks.

Hi agi-tuedor,

Thanks for your question. Spiritual faculties refer to intuition. Intuition in this sense is used as an ability which is an integral part of the spirit. This ability was given to the spirit by God so that in his wanderings in creation, he can sense the will of God as well as receive the power to live according to the will of God. Therefore to experience in creation simply means for one to weigh and examine all processes or events with the spiritual faculty. Thus to experience in creation simply means that the spirit does the experiencing. A human being who experiences with the spirit will never go astray for the spirit came from the will of God and knows nothing else except the will of God. Human beings go astray when the various coverings of the spirit become dense that the vibrations of the spirit are hampered and in some cases obscured by this density. In this case, instead of drawing from the will of God, the human being draws from the varied volitions, forms and shapes that populates the visible and invincible world of matter.

Intuition manifests in the capacity to make correct judjement in all spiritual matters as well as in earthly matters if the spirit has mastered how to relay information to the brain without undue earthly interference. Intuition does not refer to abilities like clairvoyance, clairsentinence or clairaudience but refer to an "inner seeing" and this inner seeing can manifest with or without clairvoyance, clairsentinence  clairaudience or other similar abilities. Thus the hallmark of the faculty of intuition is an awareness of what is the will of God in all circumstances. This awareness comes without thought as well as without the mind and the brain.

As I said above, the intuitive faculty is already hardwired in the human spirit as a gift of God. All that one has to do is to burst asunder the dense layers that cover the spirit so that the emanations of the spirit can find homogeneity with the spiritual power of God that pulsates in creation.  Jesus, the son of God in his Divine Message and Abd-ru-Shin in his Grail Message have already given to man and other creatures the key to recognizing and living according to the will of God. Jesus said "Love God with all your heart and love your neighbor as yourself". Abd-ru-Shin said "Keep the heart of your thoughts pure". Both the statements of Jesus and Abd-ru-Shin are the same thing if you reflect on it. These very simple statements are the key to bursting asunder the fetters that holds the spirit, allowing the spirit to recognize and live only according to the eternal laws of God.

Thus you do not need to acquire any spiritual ability, the ability already lies within you. Absolute love for God and his creations is the key. Therefore books, seminars, spiritual exercises, ascetism, fasting and similar stuff are not requirements for serving God and recognizing his will. He who practices genuine love has found his way to God and on his journey on this way, he will also gain all the necessary recognitions  including who is the son of man. Stay blessed.

Cmanforall:

@justcool
I can't thank you enough for the link & I know sometimes it is tiring regurgitating the same answers over again,but bear with us.I pray God continues to give you strength.Thanks

Thanks a lot. I wish you strength and God's guidance too.

enitan2002:

Justcool,

you've said it all.

Hi enitan2002.
Longest time! Thanks and remain blessed.

@Deepsight

Thanks you so much for your questions; you raised some important questions. I will offer my perceptions on the issues that you raised.

Deep Sight:


If one has love embedded in his heart and live according to the disctates of his conscience, what need is there to recognise the identity of ANY spiritual or divine being? ? ? ? ?

The thirst for the knowledge of God is an integral part of the Spirit. Conscience –I will rather use the word “intuitive perception” rather than conscience. Intuitive perception could be likened to the voice of the spirit; and one who follows the promptings of his spirit is already on the right path, as you quite rightly said.

But so many volitions and thoughts strike humans on earth, and some people find it difficult to discern that which is the voice of their spirit (intuition). Consequently many people live in volitions that are totally alien from their intuition, yet believing that they are following their intuition.

Before we deal with intuition and love lets ask ourselves what the spirit is. Spirit is the will of God. All that bear spirit within are part bearers of the will of God. Hence the intuition, which comes from the spirit, is always in accord with the will of God.

In this ‘bearing the will of God’ lies the fact that the spirit cannot exist as spirit without God or the will of God. The spirit needs God, and not only that, the spirit carries the ability to recognize the will of God in any situation, and to know of God. In creation wherever an ability is given, from there it is also expected the maximum use of the ability.

This ability to know of God, an ability which lies in all that is spiritual, is also a demand from all that bears spirit within, to know of God. The impetus to this is given to the spirit in the thirst for God which is an integral part of the Spirit. Thus all that comes from the spirit is filled with the thirst for God. Every intuitive perception is permeated with love and the knowledge of God.

When an individual tells you that he lives in his intuition yet he feels no need to approach God or recognize God. Such individual does not live in his intuition; neither does he know what love is. For in the thirst for God lies the love of the spirit for God. And only the man who loves God can love his neighbor. I know this is hard to accept given the caricature that we humans have made of love. But what we humans generally call love is not the Love which Christ spoke about, it is not the love that is embodied in Christ.

So simply put, real love cannot exist without God; one who does not know of God cannot radiate real love. Love comes only from the spirit; it is an integral part of the spirit; it is always evidenced in the intuitive perception just as the thirst for God is always evidenced in the intuitive perception. Love is neither a feeling nor an emotion; it is simply an intuitive perception.

A man in susbsequent creation who have not recognized Jesus is not yet fully utilizing his intuitive perception to maximum. If a man truly listens to his intuition, he will be filled with the thirst for God. This intuitive perception is the purest form of prayer, which in its reciprocal effect will link such a man with the rays of God's love. His spirit will trace this ray to its very source--Jesus.

Experiences will bring such man in contact with Jesus, but not personally. Such a man may in his intuition discern the vibration love in creation, as the knowledge of God and Jesus vibrates throughout the entire creation. This recognition doesn't necessarily have to be on earth; one can arrive at this recognition in the beyond.

Thus a man who has not recognized Jesus will not be able to ascend to the kingdom of God. His nonrecognition is a stamp of the immaturity of his spirit. A mature spirit utilizes its intuition to the fullest; and one who does this will easily pick up the vibrations of Love(Jesus) and Justice(Imanuel). These vibrations reverberate in the entire creation, for creation itself issued out of these vibrations.

But keep in mind that this recognition, this picking up the vibration of Love that descends from above, does not necessarily have to been done consciously. A man’s spirit may already have made contact with this vibration; this prompts such a man to radiate love to his fellow creatures. Every now and then this vibration stirs unexplainable longings in him, he longs for what he does not yet know; his spirit already swings in the rhythm of love, yet this man being a Moslem or a Buddhist may never suspect that his spirit has already made contact with the spirit of Christ. The weight of his brain may never allow him to consciously acknowledge Jesus. Only on passing on, when his physical body falls away as in physical death, will he realize that he already lives in the love of Christ and perhaps was a better disciple of Jesus than a Christian. Then, freed from the weight of his physical body, he will easily trace this radiation all the way its origin--Jesus.

This explains why the ancients, as they matured were able to come to the knowledge of the lords of the elemtals, spiritual beings and places, and even the Grail. The ancient Romans, from the radiation that descended from above, where able to pick up and discern the lords of the elemental like Jupiter, Venus and etc. The ancient Jews who were more advanced spiritually were able to decipher spiritual happenings and beings from this radiation, beings like angels, the son of man, the fall of Lucifer and etc. Certain stories which we regard today as legends are actually bassed on happenings in creation, although some of them are not passed down correctly and some have a lot of fantasies attached to them. Legends like that of Parsifal the 'Pure Gate', the fall of Amfortas and etc. These are bassed on actual events that took place; like a stone dropped in an occean causes ripples across the body of water, these events send ripples of vibration across the entire creation and sensitive spirits pick them up.

All that happens and exsist above radiate downwards towards subsequent creation; what each spirit is able to pick up from the radiations is a testerment to the spirit's level of maturity.

So the human spirit must arive at the recognition of God before it is permited to enter the Kingdom of God.

Deep Sight:

Is everything not completed in the simplicity of love? ? ? ? ?

Yes but what is Love? Can one love genuinely without his/her intuition? Can one utilize his intuition without yearning for God?

Deep Sight:

Is it not rather the creation of unnecessary cults of legend about human beings that necessitates any special recognition of any particular being? ? ? ?

The desire to recognize God and all His manifestations in creation is not born out of fantasy, but it is an integral part of the spirit. The spirit is hardwired to thirst for God; just as a duck thirst for water or a fish longs for a body of water. This is natural quality of the spirit; just as a helium filled balloon naturally floats upwards so does the spirit naturally long for and float towards the kingdom of God. Just as it is hardwired into plants to grow towards the light, or spread their leaves in the sun; so is the desire for God hardwired into the spirit.

Like I explained already, the spirit naturaly gravitates towards God. Consequently whenever a part of God enters creation spirits in creation gravitate towards Him. Thus the desire to know Jesus and to approach Him in spirit is not born out of fantasy, rather it is a natural effect of reality. The same is applicable with the desire to know the son of man, who also carry Divine unsubstantiality within Him.

At the time when Jesus was on earth, any person who fully utilises his intuition will end up being a follower of Christ; such a person may soon find himself/herself in the vicinity of Jesus. If he never meets Jesus in person, he will definitely come in contact with the words of Jesus. For Jesus' word, like Jesus Himself, has an attracting effect on all that is spiritual; the same is applicable to the words of the son of man. It is unimaginable how some people met Christ and yet turned away from Him and His words; this is a sure sign that thier spirits were alseep. Those that abbandoned everything and followed Christ were not fools; they were just obeying a natural urge from thier spirits. This is an effect of the natural law of attraction; for "where the carcass is, there the Eagles are gathered."

Wherever the intuition is evidenced there the desire for God is caressed. For the thirst for God is an intricate part of the spirit. The hallmark of all religions should be to link man to his creator. The desire to know of God, to live in the laws of God, and to be as near to God as man's nature permits is the right impetus for all religious movement.

Any cult formed without this desire as the basic foundation has no spiritual bases no matter much charity they do.

Deep Sight:

For I am firmly persuaded that even one who recognises NO spiritual or divine being (such as a pure buddhist) may remain on the right path so long as he believes in and practices genuine love.

The whole idea of "recognising" any particular being as "special" in the specific terms that you referred to, is nothing short of vain-glorious idolatry, in my humble opinion.

The individual who practices genuine love( Love that comes from the spirit) is already on his way to coming in-contact with the spirit of Christ. Such an individual will soon be filled with the desire to approach God. As long as he continues on this path, he will one day come to the recognition of Jesus and Imanuel. But this doesn't necessarily have to be on the earth and it doesn't matter what religion the individual belonged to while on earth.

Love is the path, recognition of God is the gate to the Kindgom of God or the ultimate goal of the spirit. The human being who thinks he can ascend to Paradise whithout the regonition of God, Jesus and Imanuel is making a big mistake.

Deep Sight:

It may equally be asserted that you blaspheme when you assert the human authour of the Grail Message to be both the Son of Man and the Holy Spirit - especially considering that in endorsing the doctrine of the Trinity, despite your protestations and denials to the contrary, you unwittingly equate the human writer of the Grail Message to Almighty God. If THAT is not blasphemy, I do not know what else is.

Here you are just making accusations. I never equated the writer of the Grail Message to Almighty God. I never said that Abd-ru-shin is equal to God.
Abd-ru-shin warned against all sorts of personality cults in His message where He gave all the glory to God. The Grail Message made it clear that only God should be worshiped. Abd-ru-shin never asked anybody to worship Him.

Deep Sight:

Usually I don’t judge people or leaders of religions but it is my perception that Abd Ru Shin is a human spirit, and consequently cannot lay claim to Divinity.

If this is your honest perception then you have not done anything wrong by asserting it. I never asked you to assert what are not your perceptions.

But as you enjoy the privilege of asserting your perceptions, allow others the same privilege too. Don’t quarrel with people just because of their perceptions.

Deep Sight:

How do we know that the writer of the Grail Mesage has not hi-jacked the self same prophecy for himself in the same fashion as many others have done before and after him - presenting vastly similar teachings as he did as set out in the OP.

I assert my perceptions. Its up to you to do you own investigations and have your own perceptions. Yours doesn’t necessarily have to be in accord with mine.

Deep Sight:

It will not do for you to simply state that "you have come to such and such recognition about his identity" - EXACTLY because the followers of O.O. may just as well also state that they have also come to such and such recognition regarding his identity.

If that is their recognition, then they have the right to assert it, just as I have the right to assert mine. I don’t quarrel with members of the brotherhood, neither do I condemn them. I gave Agi-tuedo my perceptions becuase he asked for them; I am obliged to tell him, especially knowing that he is a serious seeker who is not just asking to create religious conflict.

Deep Sight:

PLEASE DO PARDON ME MY INQUIRIES: It simply remains bizzarre for me to observe you tacitly condemn others for the EXACT SAME blasphemy that you have appropriated to the founder of your own religfious sect - namely - the presumption of divinity.

Please show me where I condemned them. What I perceive as blasphemy may not be perceived as such by another. Since people have different spiritual developments it is only expected that people should have different perceptions.

I do not condemn anybody for their perceptions or beliefs; I only offer mine where it is asked for. Agi-Tuedo asked a genuine question, I perceived that he was not asking for the sake of religious battle as many do in this forum, therefore I gave him my honest perception.

Why you have a problem with this beats me.

Deep Sight:

I did also note that you have avoided this query -

Because I perceived that it aimed at starting religious battles or comparing sects against sects. I try as much as I can to stay away from such. I don’t condemn people for their beliefs; as long as the individual is honestly convinced of what he is preaching, that is right for him.

The most important thing is honesty; as long as the individual is honest with himself, even if his beliefs are wrong at the moment if he remains truly honest in time he will mature to a better recognition or the recognition of the Truth.

@justcool
I appreciate how you & other grail adherents are helping out in this forum,i hope you don't mind my questions on reincarnation.first,what is the purpose of reincarnation,is it spiritual maturity or reaping what you sow.Do you think the aim is actualize?with freewill don't you think the person might turnout worst e.g Deepsight might be one of the apostles with Jesus(who believed Jesus is God),now he is deepsight( who does'nt believe) and later he might be a christian or trinity serial killer .To me darkness is on the rise in most countries but with reincarnation you will expect things to be better since most people are coming back.The last is,is it optional?do we have to come back to earth or we can mature/reap someplace else.

@justcool

I have being viewing the debate between you and Deepsight. It is very interesting. I ahve some few questions for you and they are based on the Immutabilty of the Laws of Creation as stated in the Message.

I believe you are an African or at least a decendent of Africa (correct me if I am wrong). In Africa there is something we called witchcraft (different from western definition); It is based on the use of special techniques that "seemily" alters the Laws of Nature. I will enuciate a few:

1. The Laws of Nature, by means of physics, naturally permits that bullets shot at a person made in flesh and blood must penetrate due to its pressure; it may interest you to know that in Africa, especially my village in Delta State (Nigeria), certain individuals are immuned to this law. It has been tried and tested severally that bullets shot at them (even in the head) make no impact as to physical injuries inflicted. Are these individuals "above the law" as manifested in the gross material plane?


2. It is possible by certain means to invoke the forces of nature like thunder, rain even fire for specific purposes like the destruction of a human being etc.

3. It is possible to attract wealth (money) by means of some ritualistic practices. These individuals seems to take the goodluck of relatives and this is manifested by their non-productivity.

To the western mind these facts and many more is just fantasy. My own sect (name withheld) teaches them to be mere superstitions but time and time again I have seen (I mean see with my two eyes these things happen especially the ones with regard to bullets). As much as I like to believe in the teaching that the laws are unbroken; African tradition tells me otherwise.

It should be noted that these facts as outlined here as the very simplest that these folks do. I have heard that they can even stand on a single broomstick without breaking, walk on water or fire, dissapear or change location in speed unimaginable e.tc. As a seeker of truth, I am obliged to speak the truth always; the ones outline here have been personally experienced by me, so I speak from first-hand knowledge as to their effficacy.

What is your take in this?

justcool:

@Deepsight

Thanks you so much for your questions; you raised so important question. I will offer my perceptions on the issues that you raised.


The thirst for the knowledge of God is an integral part of the Spirit. Conscience –I will rather use the word “intuitive perception” rather than conscience. Intuitive perception could be likened to the voice of the spirit; and one who follows the promptings of his spirit is already on the right path, as you quite rightly said.

But so many volitions and thoughts strike humans on earth, and some people find it difficult to discern that which is the voice of their spirit (intuition). Consequently many people live in volitions that are totally alien from their intuition, yet believing that they are following their intuition.

Before we deal with intuition and love lets ask ourselves what the spirit is. Spirit is the will of God. All that bear spirit within are part bearers of the will of God. Hence the intuition, which comes from the spirit, is always in accord with the will of God.

In this ‘bearing the will of God’ lies the fact that the spirit cannot exist as spirit without God or the will of God. The spirit needs God, and not only that, the spirit carries the ability to recognize the will of God in any situation, and to know of God. In creation wherever an ability is given, from there it is also expected the maximum use of the ability.

This ability to know of God, an ability which lies in all that is spiritual, is also a demand from all that bears spirit within, to know of God. The impetus to this is given to the spirit in the thirst for God which is an integral part of the Spirit. Thus all that comes from the spirit is filled with the thirst for God. Every intuitive perception is permeated with love and the knowledge of God.

When an individual tells you that he lives in his intuition yet he feels no need to approach God or recognize God. Such individual does not live in his intuition; neither does he know what love is. For in the thirst for God lies the love of the spirit for God. And only the man who loves God can love his neighbor. I know this is hard to accept given the caricature that we humans have made of love. But what we humans generally call love is not the Love which Christ spoke about, it is not the love that is embodied in Christ.

So simply put, real love cannot exist without God; one who does not know of God cannot radiate real love. Love comes only from the spirit; it is an integral part of the spirit; it is always evidenced in the intuitive perception just as the thirst for God is always evidenced in the intuitive perception. Love is neither a feeling nor an emotion; it is simply an intuitive perception.

A man in susbsequent creation who have not recognized Jesus is not yet fully utilizing his intuitive perception to maximum. If a man truly listens to his intuition, he will be filled with the thirst for God. This intuitive perception is the purest form of prayer, which in its reciprocal effect will link such a man with the rays of God's love. His spirit will trace this ray to its very source--Jesus.

Experiences will bring such man in contact with Jesus, but not personally. Such a man may in his intuition discern the vibration love in creation, as the knowledge of God and Jesus vibrates throughout the entire creation. This recognition doesn't necessarily have to be on earth; one can arrive at this recognition in the beyond.

Thus a man who has not recognized Jesus will not be able to ascend to the kingdom of God. His nonrecognition is a stamp of the immaturity of his spirit. A mature spirit utilizes its intuition to the fullest; and one who does this will easily pick up the vibrations of Love(Jesus) and Justice(Imanuel). These vibrations reverberate in the entire creation, for creation itself issued out of these vibrations.

But keep in mind that this recognition, this picking up the vibration of Love that descends from above, does not necessarily have to been done consciously. A man’s spirit may already have made contact with this vibration; this prompts such a man to radiate love to his fellow creatures. Every now and then this vibration stirs unexplainable longings in him, he longs for what he does not yet know; his spirit already swings in the rhythm of love, yet this man being a Moslem or a Buddhist may never suspect that his spirit has already made contact with the spirit of Christ. The weight of his brain may never allow him to consciously acknowledge Jesus. Only on passing on, when his physical body falls away as in physical death, will he realize that he already lives in the love of Christ and perhaps was a better disciple of Jesus than a Christian. Then, freed from the weight of his physical body, he will easily trace this radiation all the way its origin--Jesus.

This explains why the ancients, as they matured were able to come to the knowledge of the lords of the elemtals, spiritual beings and places, and even the Grail. The ancient Romans, from the radiation that descended from above, where able to pick up and discern the lords of the elemental like Jupiter, Venus and etc. The ancient Jews who were more advanced spiritually were able to decipher spiritual happenings and beings from this radiation, beings like angels, the son of man, the fall of Lucifer and etc. Certain stories which we regard today as legends are actually bassed on happenings in creation, although some of them are not passed down correctly and some have a lot of fantasies attached to them. Legends like that of Parsifal the 'Pure Gate', the fall of Amfortas and etc. These are bassed on actual events that took place; like a stone dropped in an occean causes ripples across the body of water, these events send ripples of vibration across the entire creation and sensitive spirits pick them up.

All that happens and exsist above radiate downwards towards subsequent creation; what each spirit is able to pick up from the radiations is a testerment to the spirit's level of maturity.

So the human spirit must arive at the recognition of God before it is permited to enter the Kingdom of God.

I can only say that your surmise is contradictory. Its conclusion actually agrees with that which i set out - namely that love is what is key - and that recognitions of this or that entity are of no moment whatsoever - especially when considered as you mentioned that "swinging in the vibration of love" is what is key.

For this reason, I am entirely satisfied that even if in fact Jesus and Abd Ru Shin and Olumba Obu are all divine beings, one's ignorance of such will take absolutely nothing away from one's spirituality - so long as one is swinging in the vibration of love.

I might as well be a red indian living in north america 700 years ago.

Now what is most key is this: and here I believe is another contradiction within your world-view -

1. The persona, identity and being of Jesus etc - are said to rest within the divine.

2. It is asserted that man can never comprehend the divine, as it rests above his origin.

Why then do you expect man to have or develop any exact recognition of beings resting within that divine plane?

This simply does not add up: nor can I accept that divine justice would require any such "recognition" from mankind.

For these reasons I find your statement that "a man who has not recognized Jesus will not be able to ascend to the kingdom of God" - to be quite off-centre, paradoxical and potentially misleading.

Yes but what is Love? Can one love genuinely without his/her intuition? Can one utilize his intuition without yearning for God?

Can anybody ever have God?

No.

So what you describe as a "yearning for God" is rather expressed as a yearning for love which is expressed by and amongst human spirits.

This is what it means to "have" God - within the human context and having regard to human experiential limitations.

I do appreciate that it is a living reality that pervades creation: but we access it in our experiencing which occurs as interaction with other beings and with creation.

God itself can not be grasped.

The desire to recognize God and all His manifestations in creation is not born out of fantasy, but it is an integral part of the spirit. The spirit is hardwired to thirst for God; just as a duck thirst for water or a fish longs for a body of water. This is natural quality of the spirit; just as a helium filled balloon naturally floats upwards so does the spirit naturally long for and float towards the kingdom of God. Just as it is hardwired into plants to grow towards the light, or spread their leaves in the sun; so is the desire for God hardwired into the spirit.

It is unfortunate to reduce the yearning and recognition of God to a cultish worship of a fellow mortal human being.

Much of your explanations dovetail with what i understand to be the truth - however it is regrettable that your conclusion attempts to demand an exaltation of a mere mortal as a divine being, and worse - follow up by insisting that persons who reject this are not "using their intuitive perception to their maximum. . ."

That leaves me dumbfounded.

Like I explained already, the spirit naturaly gravitates towards God. Consequently whenever a part of God enters creation spirits in creation gravitate towards Him. Thus the desire to know Jesus and to approach him in spirit is not born out of fantasy, rather it is a natural effect of reality. The same is applicable with the desire to know the son of man, who also carry Divinity within Him.

That is why we are also trying to gravitate towards Olumba Olumba Obu, and a zillion other claimants of divinity.

I believe I have asserted to you before that it is incongruous to speak about a "part" of God, for God is infinite, and there cannot be a "part" of an infinity. There can only be parts of finite things, and not of the infinite intangible God.

It is the height of human arrogance and presumption, this business of equating mortals with God, and it is regrettable that the otherwise brilliant work called the Grail Message, winds up with a declaration of the divinity of the writer. That is regrettably self-serving.

Wherever the intuition is evidenced there the desire for God is caressed. For the thirst for God is an intricate part of the spirit. The hallmark of all religions should be to link man to his creator. The desire to know of God, to live in the laws of God, and to be as near to God as man's nature permits is the right impetus for all religious movement.

Yes, close to God, not close to mere mortals claiming to be God or "parts" of God.

Viewed aright, everything in existence may be said to be integral to God.

Any cult formed without this desire as the basic foundation has no spiritual bases no matter much charity they do.

Charity is the best that one can aspire to.

The individual who practices genuine love( Love that comes from the spirit) is already on his way to coming in-contact with the spirit of Christ. Such an individual will soon be filled with the desire to approach God. As long as he continues on this path, he will one day come to the recognition of Jesus and Imanuel. But this doesn't necessarily have to be on the earth and it doesn't matter what religion the individual belonged to while on earth.

Well said. My only reservation being your presumptions regarding the identities of Jesus and Imanuel.

Love is the path, recognition of God is the gate to the Kindgom of God or the ultimate goal of the spirit. The human being who thinks he can ascend to Paradise whithout the regonition of God, Jesus and Imanuel is making a big mistake.

I hope you see that the portion in blue contradicts the portion in red.

And in saying this i note that we are agreed that swinging in the vibration of love is what is key.

You may call that vibration Jesus, another may call it Shango, and yet another may call it Olumba Olumba Obu.

Personally, I will credit that person who ascribes it to GOD, devoid of any presumptuous promotion or deification of human beings.

Here you are just making accusations. I never equated the writer of the Grail Message to Almighty God. I never said that Abd-ru-shin is equal to God.

Let us not run around in circles.

1. You state and believe that Abd Ru Shin is the Holy Spirit.

2. You state and affirm a belief in the Trinity comprising Father, Son and Holy Spirit - this is stated in the Grail Message.

Any person can add up 1 & 2 above and see the glaring result: you can therefore not deny the obvious inference.

What is "part" of an infinity, anyway?

Do you not realize that such a "part" must perforce itself bear the quality of infinity - just as surely as fractions of numbers themselves contain an infinity of fractions along the infinite number line. Thus stating that any person is a 'part' of God in the context you use does indeed amount to equating that person with God.

Abd-ru-shin warned against all sorts of personality cults in His message where He gave all the glory to God. The Grail Message made it clear that only God should be worshiped. Abd-ru-shin never asked anybody to worship Him.

He described his own countenance as Parsifal in the Grail Castle, describing himself as "glorious, imperious, perfect" and commanding men to "bow down" before such imperious glory.

If that is not a demand for worship I wonder what else is. Do you require me to source the quote within the Grail Message? I will.

Because I perceived that it aimed at starting religious battles or comparing sects against sects. I try as much as I can to stay away from such. I don’t condemn people for their beliefs; as long as the individual is honestly convinced of what he is preaching, that is right for him.

I actually found this, coming from you, to be tragically sad. I deeply regret that you could have such a view of my motives.

Nonetheless, no matter: I state my concern again - and put very simply it is a frank worry that once any body of writing is accepted as infallible and ABSOLUTELY correct in truth, then the person accepting that can NEVER think outside that manual, and can NEVER challenge anything in that manual.

For me, that is a profound limitation in the quest for truth.

@ Justcool -

M_Nwankwo spoke about the Trinity in another thread, and I quote him -

Any separation between God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit will lead to errors in conception. My perception is that it is a small essence of God the father that is Jesus Christ and another small essence of God the Father that is the Holy Spirit. In other words it is God the Father that works in three fold as the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. Being "parts" of the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are eternal, uncreated and have no beginning. Thus it is correct to call them God the son and God the Holy Spirit respectively.

Observe the bolded words in red.

Does the Grail Message not teach that Abd Ru Shin is the Holy Spirit?

@obi o1
Thanks for your questions. I apologize for my late reply; its been a very hectic week for me. You can’t imagine what I’m going through now; but in-order not to bore you with my problems, I will go straight to treating your questions.

obi1o1:

@justcool
I appreciate how you & other grail adherents are helping out in this forum,i hope you don't mind my questions on reincarnation.first,what is the purpose of reincarnation,is it spiritual maturity or reaping what you sow.

Reincarnation is a manifestation of the Love and Justice of God; everything we call laws of creation are nothing but manifestations of Love and Justice of God. Indeed the whole creation issued out of this Love and Justice; and everything in creation, even the minutest processes, is guided by the Love and Justice of God.

Reincarnation offers the human spirits in subsequent creation an opportunity to mature because one earth-life is not enough for the human spirit to learn all the lessons that it needs to learn on earth; reincarnation allows the spirit to return to earth as many times as it is needed for the spirit to complete its maturity.

Like every law of creation, if one adjusts oneself aright to the law, it will only bring benefits and blessing to the individual; but when one is not adjusted in the right manner to the laws, only sorrows, unhappiness and misfortunes will result. But even this “sorrow, unhappiness, and misfortunes” is a manifestation of Love and Justice in that it shows the individual to see how he is adjusted to the laws. Sometimes it takes a blow of fate(misfortune) to awaken an individual spiritually, to seek God, or to change his attitude towards life and his fellow man.

So while reincarnation offers the human spirit the opportunity to return to earth as many times as it is needed to learn all the lessons it needs to learn on earth; an individual who abuses the gift of being on earth by harming his fellow man, thus an individual not well adjusted to the laws of creation, will be forced to reincarnate on earth to live through the circumstances he placed his fellow man while he was on earth. This is where the law of reciprocal action (Karma) comes in.

Even this being forced to incarnate due to karma, is also a manifestation of Love and Justice, in that it offers the individual an opportunity to get rid of Karma that the individual had incurred in his past life.

The purpose of reincarnation is not to punish; for in reality God punishes nobody; the laws of God are meant to help man mature and live happily, and not to punish man. But when man abuses these laws, that’s when punishment results. So in actuality it is man that punishes himself and not God that punishes man.

On the final analysis, if one adjusts himself aright, reincarnations will result to the spiritual maturity of such a well adjusted spirit. So the purpose is for the spiritual maturity of the human spirit in subsequent creation.

obi1o1:

Do you think the aim is actualize?with freewill don't you think the person might turnout worst e.g Deepsight might be one of the apostles with Jesus(who believed Jesus is God),now he is deepsight( who does'nt believe) and later he might be a christian or trinity serial killer .To me darkness is on the rise in most countries but with reincarnation you will expect things to be better since most people are coming back.

It is left for each individual to make the right use of his/her freewill. I.e. adjust himself/herself aright to the laws of creation, and actualize the purpose which is spiritual maturity. When things turn out worst it is always the individual’s fault; for if the individual had used his freewill rightly only progress, maturity of the spirit, and blessings will arise.

If when he was an apostle of Jesus, the individual had let the rays of Love which is radiated from Jesus, find their way into the individual’s spirit. His spirit can swing in this rhythm eternally, irrespective of whether the individual is on earth or in the beyond, irrespective of whether he is a Moslem or a Christian in his next incarnation. Such an individual who maintains connection with the Love that radiates from Jesus will never be lacking in love in his actions; such an individual will never become a suicide bomber even if he is a Moslem. But it is left for the individual to maintain this connection with the radiations of Jesus, by obeying the promptings of his spirit; or to lose this connection, by not listening to the voice of his spirit(his intuitive perception). It all depends on the human spirit; despite all opportunities and help that God provide through His immutable laws of Creation.

Chances are that such an apostle will reincarnate in an environment where the knowledge of Christ exist, i.e. in a Christian family, so that the individual will build up on what he already knew in his past life. Such an individual, who had kept his connection to the rays of Love, will exhibit a more understanding of Christ’s words even though he may never realize, consciously with his present physical brain, that he was once and apostle of Jesus.

Should such an apostle incarnate in a Moslem, Buddhist or Hindu environment, or in an environment where Jesus is not known; the individual may never consciously come to the knowledge of Christ with his physical brain, but as long as his spirit maintains its connection with the rays of Love of Jesus, the individual’s spirit will still swing in this rhythm of Love. Such a person will be a loving person even if he is a Moslem, Hindu or a practioner of the African traditional beliefs.

Real life lies only in the spirit; the physical body along with the brain is only a tool for each particular earth life. So an outward Christian, one whose Christianity does not proceed from his spirit, is not really a Christian in the eyes of the laws of God. Such a person is only paying lip service or can be counted among hypocrites who will not be allowed into the kingdom of God. Remember, "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.”

“he who does the will of my Father…” is the individual who listens and obeys the voice of his spirit. Because only in spirit can God be worshiped, even this is hinted in the gospel. So a man may know the entire Bible with his brain, he may even be a pastor, but as long as his spirit is not involved, such a man is only a hypocrite. Even if he preaches about Jesus and performs miracles, as long as his spirit is not involved, he is not a genuine follower of Jesus. If you look carefully in the society you will see such people; pastors who preach about Jesus yet they have no love for their fellow human beings. A person, who does not consciously know Jesus, yet is filled with love for his brother is a better follower of Christ than such a pastor.

What one knows with his brain or by reading is only learnedness, it is worthless compared to that which comes from the spirit.

No matter where the individual finds him/herself reincarnated on earth; the reincarnation is an opportunity for him to build up on his past incarnation. It often happens that such a Buddhist, Hindu, or Moslem, who was a apostle of Jesus in his pas life, by swinging in the radiation of Love, his spirit will attract all that swings in this rhythm of love, because all that is spiritual is magnetic; it may happen that while being a Moslem, Hindu or Buddhist, such a person may come in contact with the teachings of Christ. Such a person may come in contact with the original teachings of Christ. Such a person will immediately feel an affinity with the true teachings of Christ and may convert immediately.

But even if such an individual remains a Moslem, he will always radiate love in his actions. The state of our spirits is evidenced in our actions, not in learnedness, and not necessarily in religious affiliation or nationality.

Where such a previous apostle vehemently opposes the true teachings of Jesus or becomes a murderer or an atheist, there the previous apostle had stopped listening to his intuitive perception; he is as good as having lost his connection to the rays of love that emanates from Jesus. This is only his fault; it is not God’s fault nor is it due to reincarnation. It is totally the individual’s fault.

This is why darkness is on the rise in most countries today; the fault lies with man, and not with reincarnation. Of course, given the fact of reincarnation, you would expect things would be better on earth today because most people on earth have been on earth many times already; but this does not mean that reincarnation is false. It only goes to show how much man has fallen, and what a bad student of life humans have become. I will give an analogy: It is expected that when student repeats a class he/she does better in the class. But there are students so bad that after repeating a class three times, on their fourth time of repeating the class they still do worst than they did the first time.

The lessons learnt in each earth-life are reserved to the spirit; any knowledge that resides only in the brain is lost as soon as the brain dies. Thus in the next earth-life if the individual does not pay attention to the voice of his spirit, he will not utilize the experiences of his previous incarnations, neither will he be able to build on what he learnt in his previous incarnation. Since the lessons learned from his previous incarnation is stored in his spirit, by not leistering to his spirit, the individual has closed the door to the experiences gained in his previous earth-life. So it doesn’t matter how many times you have been on earth already; as long as you don’t utilize your intuitive perception you will do bad(fail) each time.

obi1o1:

The last is,is it optional?do we have to come back to earth or we can mature/reap someplace else.

The developing human spirit (spirit germ) needs to experience both the physical(Here) and the ethereal(Beyond) for its maturity and development. Certain lessons or experiences it can only obtain on earth, while certain experiences it can only obtain in the beyond. Thus a thorough experiencing of all the planes of the worlds of matter, i.e. a thorough experiencing of the physical plane (the earth belongs to the physical plane) is not optional but necessary for the development of the spirit.

The option of how many times we need to return to earth lies, to some extent, with the individual. If one listens to his intuitive perception, or if one adjusts himself/herself aright to the laws of creation, he/she would learn the lessons that he/she needs to learn fast and will soon be matured enough that he/she would no longer need to be incarnated on earth anymore. Such an individual would soon be lifted out of the worlds or matter(both here and the beyond still belong to the world of matter) and be allowed to return to the spiritual world(Paradise). There he/she would live eternally swinging joyfully and consciously in the rhythms of the laws of God.

Apart from the need for maturity, the only time a spirit is forced to incarnate is when such a spirit had incurred karma on earth. Such a karma that can only be paid on earth, where it originated, will force the individual to reincarnate on earth thereby offering the individual an opportunity to pay for the Karma.

People mature in the beyond too; and even in Paradise. There is no end to maturity. But a certain level of maturity is needed before the spirit can return back to Paradise. The spirit has to have become fully conscious before it can be allowed to return back to Paradise.

Thanks and remain blessed.

@agi-tuedor
To you also I need to apologize for this late reply.

agi-tuedor:

@justcool

I have being viewing the debate between you and Deepsight. It is very interesting. I ahve some few questions for you and they are based on the Immutabilty of the Laws of Creation as stated in the Message.

I believe you are an African or at least a decendent of Africa (correct me if I am wrong). In Africa there is something we called witchcraft (different from western definition); It is based on the use of special techniques that "seemily" alters the Laws of Nature. I will enuciate a few:

You are correct; I am an African, and also an American citizen. Born and raised in eastern Nigeria(Anambra State to be specific), I migrated to the United States of America, to further my education, after my secondary school in Nigerian. Since then I have lived in America although occasionally I have visited Nigeria. I have experienced both worlds and therefore I am very familiar with African witchcraft.

Yet I firmly maintain, out of my strongest conviction, that the laws of nature cannot be altered; any alteration, even that as little as a hair’s breadth, is totally out of the question.

agi-tuedor:

1. The Laws of Nature, by means of physics, naturally permits that bullets shot at a person made in flesh and blood must penetrate due to its pressure; it may interest you to know that in Africa, especially my village in Delta State (Nigeria), certain individuals are immuned to this law. It has been tried and tested severally that bullets shot at them (even in the head) make no impact as to physical injuries inflicted. Are these individuals "above the law" as manifested in the gross material plane?

Nobody is above or immune to the laws of nature, and no amount manipulations can change the laws of nature. Behind the pressure that manifests what we call the laws of nature or laws of creation stands the power of God. It is the pressure created by the power of God that causes the laws of creation; and since none is greater than God or the power of God, it logically follows that none can annul the laws of creation.

Due to the distance of the worlds of matter from the Light, and the density of the substances that make up the worlds of matter; things are slowed down. Thus even the speed of the laws reduces greatly compare to spiritual worlds where everything manifests immediately. But even in the furtherest plane of the worlds of matter the laws cannot be annulled. In every part of creation, the laws of creation manifest and cannot be overthrown or annulled.

Man can study these laws and learn to apply them in manner that the lay person does not know, and achieve results that astound the lay person. But this does not mean that laws have been overthrown; for man had to learn about them first before he could achieve his seemingly impossible feats. I.e. a man building an airplane had to study the laws of gravity, motion, density and up-thrust and etc; he learns how to apply these laws or forces that result from them to achieve a vehicle, an airplane that flies. To the layman this vehicle defy the law of gravity, but in reality it is not so. This deferment of gravity is only ostensible, for in reality the airplane obeys the law of gravity.   

But in the case that you described above, it is my perception that such feats are not possible. No human skin can defy the penetration of a bullet shot at close range. A man can through incantations, meditations, charms and etc achieve a very strong and intimidating aura. Such aura may cause an opponent to lose faith, become afraid or confused in this man’s environment; such an opponent, although equipped with a gun, when confronted by the man, he(the opponent) may not make the right decision, may not shoot, may loose courage, or due to confusion he may miss his aim, and consequently the man will overcome him. This may give rise to a rumor that the man is invincible or immuned to gun shots. Also in Africa it often happpens that the man who failed his mission (to kill a person), out of fear of losing his reputation may lie and fabricate a story that his target(the person that he was sent to kill) disappeaded into the thin air or that his target is immuned to gun shots.

And one does not necessarily need charms, incantations, and etc to achieve the feat, of having an intimidating aura; it lies perfectly in the law of creation. Strong faith, conviction or strong courage already suffices to create an intimidating aura around an individual. Based on the law that all that is spiritual is attractive, a courage that issues from the spirit has a very attracting influence on all that carry courage within. The influx of this strong courage that radiates from the spirit of the man will envelop such an individual with a very strong aura. Based on the law that the strong overcomes the weak, another man of a lesser courage will loss even the little courage he has when confronted with the man of a higher courage. The magnetic influence of the stronger one will attract or pull away the weaker one. “For whoever has, to him more shall be given; and whoever does not have, even what he has shall be taken away from him." This Biblical statement, which lies perfectly in the laws of creation, expresses the manifestation of the law of attraction; it is even scientific as science has observed its manifestation on physical matter.

If you observe history, you will notice this in many events, even in Nigerian history. A brand of soldiers was once deployed to shoot Napoleon Bonaparte. On hearing this and filled with courage, Napoleon went to these soldiers who lost courage in his presence. With the words; “Will you shoot your emperor?” he conquered the men who were too confused and afraid to pull their triggers. Superstitious people attributed this feat to some supernatural powers. I read somewhere that during the coup of January 1966 in Nigeria, a road block was set for the General Ironsi. The officers that set up the blockage were instructed to shoot him at sight. On getting to the road block, Ironsi stepped out of his car and roared, “Get out of my way!” to the junior officers who immediately unblocked the road and let him pass. The junior officers lost their courage in his presence. Some people have speculated that perhaps the junior officers didn’t recognize him; others speculated that perhaps the junior officers lost courage; while others believed that Ironsi used his charm, the crocodile staff on the junior officers.
The problem with Africans is that most times it takes a charm to awaken their courage or conviction. It is the conviction that creates the aura like I explained above, and for this a charm is not necessary. It happens that the individual being superstitious put his faith in the charm, believing that as long as he has this charm no harm can come to him. This strong belief or conviction allows courage to flow through his spirit. The strong courage that flows through him has an influence on his opponents like I explained above. In other words it is his faith(conviction of courage) that saved him and not his charm. Just as an individual who is convinced that touching a prophet will heal him; on touching the prophet, this convictions allows him to open his spirit unrestrictedly to the flows of healing energy in creation, and consequently energy will flow through him healing him. If the prophet was knowing and honest, the prophet will tell him that “his faith has saved him.”  One can achieve such a strong conviction without a charm; it is unfornunate that Africans or negores have an unnecessary predelection towards charms. The problem with using a charm to achieve such conviction is that in the absence of the charm the individual losses his courage and becomes afraid and consequently harm would come to him. Perhaps this is why Danjuma took away Ironsi’s crocodile staff first before arresting him. Here I am not saying that Ironsi was fetish, I don’t know this, and I am not judging the man. I am only using his case to give you a gist of what happens in Africa. I read that the man was a good catholic. Rightly understood, it is not the charm that saves or protects the individual, rather it is the conviction or faith which the individual places in the charm, this faith or strong sense of security creates a strong aura around the individual; this aura protects the individual much like the atmosphere protects the earth.

Now back to your question. I do not believe that the human skin, under any circumstances can prevent a bullet from going through it. Those that appear to do so are only performing magic. It is not real, they are only tricking you.

You didn’t do the shooting your self. You are not sure that the guns had real bullets or if they were loaded at all. If you believe that it is real, then I will keep in touch with you so that the next time I visit Nigeria you can show me. Whatever car I have then will be yours if you can show me the individual who gets shot without the bullet penetrating.

agi-tuedor:

2. It is possible by certain means to invoke the forces of nature like thunder, rain even fire for specific purposes like the destruction of a human being etc.

Yes. It is my perception that this is possible. Just like one can pick up a stone and throw on another person; or just as one can command his dog to bite another person. One can affect the natural forces; behind these forces lies animistic beings called elementals who perpetually work in them. Humans, through the volitions of their spirit create demons like furies; these demons can greatly interfere with the natural forces, these furies can interfere or become a hindrance the working of the elementals because just like the elementals, demons carry animistic substance as their animating core.

It was easier to achieve such evil feats before than now. For now, in the present time, greater power pours from above into subsequent creation; this power of God strengthens everything that is right and destroys everything that is evil. Thus the elementals now stand directly in the power of God making them more powerful and less easily controlled or interfered with. This power will keep being poured into subsequent creation till all evil is destroyed, till the earth is purified.

But genuine prayer remains the best and the most superior way to deal with the forces of nature. With prayer one can prevent certain natural disasters, and where it can not be prevented, the individual will be shown a way to escape such disasters.

Also, it depends on the psychic condition of the person whom you are calling the disaster on to allow it to happen in his environment or not. Everybody is protected by an aura, like I explained above; one whose aura radiates with purity, the purity of such an aura will not let darkness leave a lasting mark on him. Just like the atmosphere protects the earth; the purity of the person’s aura will deflect the evil approaching him.

So for one who lives according to the true teachings of Christ, it is a waste of time trying to invoke thunder to strike him. It will be dissolved, deflected, or reflected by his aura.

But the one who sends such thunder or impure currents towards his fellow man is doing more harm to himself. The currents he sends out will definitely return to him greatly multiplied. He will reap what he sowed.  So those who practice such things, do more harm to themselves than they do to their neighbor.

agi-tuedor:

3. It is possible to attract wealth (money) by means of some ritualistic practices. These individuals seems to take the goodluck of relatives and this is manifested by their non-productivity.

All that is spiritual has an attracting and s strong influence on all the lower species. Spiritually speaking one can attract anything to oneself, through the process that I explained above. Our thoughts and volitions have forms which can condense, press and have an influence on the coarsest gross matter.

Also based on the law of attraction of homogeneous species, those who live for more money will always attract each other. And their thoughts or volitions for money and wealth will also attract similar thoughts and volitions making their thoughts and volitions stronger and giving them more ideas on how to make money.

The ritualistic practices that some of such people practice are really not necessary. Some pf such practices are futile; at best they serve to increase the individual hunger for more or put him in a better frame of mind to make money. Just as the ritualistic practices of wearing a doctors robe puts the doctor in a frame of mind to perform the work of a doctor. Such rituals may only serve to allow the individual who places trust in them, to awaken courage. All powers of attraction come from the spirit.

It is not possible to take your relatives luck. If I do good, based on the law of reciprocal action, I will reap the benefits of my good deed; nobody can reap what I have sowed, except me.

agi-tuedor:

To the western mind these facts and many more is just fantasy. My own sect (name withheld) teaches them to be mere superstitions but time and time again I have seen (I mean see with my two eyes these things happen especially the ones with regard to bullets). As much as I like to believe in the teaching that the laws are unbroken; African tradition tells me otherwise.

The laws are not broken. The issue with bullets is only magic. It is pure deception. African traditions doesn’t really tell otherwise; the problem is that many of the genuine practioners of African tradition did not fully understand the laws guiding their practices. And among such practioners were many charlatans who trick people just to gain money, reputation, respect or fear of the masses.

There are ancient African sayings that prove that they know that certain things are impossible. The ancient Igbos, who where great philosophers say “ife amulu amu ka ife agwo lu agwu.” (I’m not good in writing Igbo so I might have written it wrongly). It roughly translates to “What is learned or what is done by learning or by knowledge is greater or more superior to what is achieved through juju or fetishisim.” Could anything be truer than this saying? It goes to show you that they knew that all those things achieved through juju or rituals are mere illusions which cannot be compared to what is achieved by learning the reality of the laws of nature or through laboriously studying the laws of reality. Our forefathers were wiser than we thing they were!

agi-tuedor:

It should be noted that these facts as outlined here as the very simplest that these folks do. I have heard that they can even stand on a single broomstick without breaking, walk on water or fire, dissapear or change location in speed unimaginable e.tc. As a seeker of truth, I am obliged to speak the truth always; the ones outline here have been personally experienced by me, so I speak from first-hand knowledge as to their effficacy.

What is your take in this?

The ancients Egyptians moved giant stones, by applying the laws of nature which they have studied and learned, not by annulling the laws. Much like today’s engineers make a very heavy airplane fly like a thing as light as feather, by learning and applying the laws of nature and not by annulling these laws. If a man stood on a broom stick(which I doubt very much); he could only have done so by applying a knowledge obtained by laboriously learning or studying the laws of nature; not by annulling the laws of nature.
Walking on fire is possible; although you will definitely get burned, its possible to trian yourself noot to feel the pain.
Disappearing is out of the question; it is not possible. When it is done, it is the perception or vision of the onlookers that is deceived and not that the practioner disappeared. I can elaborate on this when opportunity presents itself.


Thanks and remain blessed.

Deep Sight:

I can only say that your surmise is contradictory. Its conclusion actually agrees with that which i set out - namely that love is what is key - and that recognitions of this or that entity are of no moment whatsoever - especially when considered as you mentioned that "swinging in the vibration of love" is what is key.

For this reason, I am entirely satisfied that even if in fact Jesus and Abd Ru Shin and Olumba Obu are all divine beings, one's ignorance of such will take absolutely nothing away from one's spirituality - so long as one is swinging in the vibration of love.

I might as well be a red indian living in north america 700 years ago.

One who swings in the rhythm of Love will one day come to recognition of Jesus. Simple and short. When a human spirit have not come to this recognition; it simply means that the spirit is not yet mature enough to enter Paradise. The spirit is simply not conscious enough.

Spirits in Paradise live consciously knowing of God, His Love(Jesus), and His will(Imanuel). Demanding a spirit who does not know of God, Jesus, and Imanuel enter Paradise is like demanding that a man who does not know Obama should serve Obama in the white house. If the servant does not know his master; how can such a servant live up to expectation?

Everything in Paradise in done in the rhythm of Purity(God the father), Love(Jesus), and Justice(Imanuel); how can one swing consciously in this rhythm when he/she doesn’t consciously know the where-off of these radiations? For a human being to be permited to live in Paradise, the human being has to be fully counsciouse spiritualy; to be fully consciouse spiritualy means to utilize your intuition to the fullest. And once this is done the spirit recognises, not only the raditions that it swings in, but the origin of these raditions.

Also swinging in any rhythm(radiation) without seeking to know the where-off of the rhythm is contrary to the nature of the spirit. The spirit yearns to know; this thirst for knowledge is an integral part of the spirit. Only an animal is satisfied with swinging in laws that it knows nothing of; this is a quality that lies naturally in the animistic but not in the spiritual. The spirit having originated from the highest part of creation carry the ability to trace every radiation in creation up to the highest part of creation(the spiritual part); and even carry the ability to "know of" those radiations above creation. In this ability lies the demand which the creator make on all that carry spirit within.

Now Deepsight look around you; where there is spirit there is the desire to know. As soon as a child notices sunlight, it looks up into the sky to the sun, to see the origin of this sunlight. Once a child realizes that it was born by its parents; it will ask its parents who gave birth to them and so on. This curiosity which is peculiar with humans is a quality that lies in the spiritual. An animal for example does not care who its parents were, once it passes the dependency stage; it does not care what the sunlight is, eventhough that it lives in the sunlight; neither does it care of the origin of the sunlight. It simply does not carry the ability to trace these things.

And how do you access the development of a child? By the question the child asks or by what the child knows!!!!!!

Deep Sight:

Now what is most key is this: and here I believe is another contradiction within your world-view -

1. The persona, identity and being of Jesus etc - are said to rest within the divine.

2. It is asserted that man can never comprehend the divine, as it rests above his origin.

Why then do you expect man to have or develop any exact recognition of beings resting within that divine plane?

This simply does not add up: nor can I accept that divine justice would require any such "recognition" from mankind.

For these reasons I find your statement that "a man who has not recognized Jesus will not be able to ascend to the kingdom of God" - to be quite off-centre, paradoxical and potentially misleading.

I never said that man can know God. Read my posts carefully I said that man can “Know of God.” To “Know of God” is different from to “Know God.”

Deep Sight:

Can anybody ever have God?

No.

So what you describe as a "yearning for God" is rather expressed as a yearning for love which is expressed by and amongst human spirits.

This is what it means to "have" God - within the human context and having regard to human experiential limitations.

I do appreciate that it is a living reality that pervades creation: but we access it in our experiencing which occurs as interaction with other beings and with creation.

God itself can not be grasped.

Like I already said man can never know God or grasp God in His entirety; but man can know of God. Man can know that which is of God, man can know the will of God in any situation. Man can know of God’s love-Jesus; man can know of Gods Justice-Imanuel; and man can know of God the father. Everything from God that descends into creation is for man to know of. Thus when Jesus incarnated on earth, it was God’s intention that man recognized Him for such recognition will make man listen to Him. The same is applicable to the son of man.

Your question is like asking why a student must recognize his teacher, a teacher sent to teach him. If a student does not recognize his teacher, such a student may place the words of his fellow students above the words of the teacher.

Deep Sight:

It is unfortunate to reduce the yearning and recognition of God to a cultish worship of a fellow mortal human being.

Much of your explanations dovetail with what i understand to be the truth - however it is regrettable that your conclusion attempts to demand an exaltation of a mere mortal as a divine being, and worse - follow up by insisting that persons who reject this are not "using their intuitive perception to their maximum. . ."

That leaves me dumbfounded.

Please show me where I reduced the recognition of God to the worship of fellow mortal human being.

As I have explained above, the human spirit being spiritual carry the ability to know of God. Man carries the ability to know of Jesus, and Imanuel; in this ability lies the demand to know of them.

A human spirit, who knows everything about the Love of God, as much as the human spiritual nature allows him, will also recognize this Love when it takes on form. For everything in Creation has form. The form of this Love of God is Jesus; He is the embodiment of this Love; He is the love itself living and walking among men.

To argue that an individual utilizes his intuition to the maximum ability and still does not recognize Jesus and Imanuel is like saying that a man knows everything about sunlight and yet does not recognize the sun, the source of the light that he claim to know everything about. How is that possible??

Deep Sight:

That is why we are also trying to gravitate towards Olumba Olumba Obu, and a zillion other claimants of divinity.

Only you can answer this one. I personally do not feel any gravity towards Olumba Olumba Obu; my spirit does not gravitate towards Olumba Olumba Obu. If yours do, find out why.

Deep Sight:

I believe I have asserted to you before that it is incongruous to speak about a "part" of God, for God is infinite, and there cannot be a "part" of an infinity. There can only be parts of finite things, and not of the infinite intangible God.

It is the height of human arrogance and presumption, this business of equating mortals with God, and it is regrettable that the otherwise brilliant work called the Grail Message, winds up with a declaration of the divinity of the writer. That is regrettably self-serving.

So God being infinite cannot make His love finite God made His Love finite and a part of this finite love incarnated on earth as Jesus.

Yet the ability to love which is infinite remained with God, an ability that can never be exhausted. It is the ability that is infinite. Each act of love is an expression of this ability; while the ability remains infinite, each act is finite.

Jesus is such as act of Divine unsubstantiate love; a finite act which has form, a form through which the infinite ability to love passes fort.

A potion of that which is infinite can radiate through a finite channel. Jesus was the finite channel through which a portion of the infinite love of God radiates.

Deep Sight:


Yes, close to God, not close to mere mortals claiming to be God or "parts" of God.

Viewed aright, everything in existence may be said to be integral to God.

Wrong. Creation owes its existence to the radiation of God. Creation is nothing but the radiation of God that has cooled down and is formed. Creation is not part of God.

God like light radiates. The radiation of Light is not part of the light but a consequence of the light.

Deep Sight:

Charity is the best that one can aspire to.

Any action, no matter how charitable that is not directed towards the spiritual benefit of man is worthless compared to that which benefits the spirit. Only that which helps the spirit ascend is beneficial to the spirit; it is the ultimate that man should aspire to; it is love in its pure form.

Some acts of kindness and charity are actually wrong and against the laws of creation, especially when such acts hinder the inner man of the individual it is directed to.

Love is sometimes harsh and severe. One who flatters a love-peddler or one who is charitable enough to give her money does her more harm than one who picks up a stick and drives her out of the streets.

One who is charitable enough to build a house in the church for the money changers does more harm than one who picks up a stick and drives them out of the church.

Deep Sight:

Well said. My only reservation being your presumptions regarding the identities of Jesus and Imanuel.

I have never tried to persuade you on the identities of Jesus and Imanuel. I have always said that each individual must come to recognition him/herself. Why you quarrel with me for my recognition is what I don’t understand.

Deep Sight:

I hope you see that the portion in blue contradicts the portion in red.

And in saying this i note that we are agreed that swinging in the vibration of love is what is key.

You may call that vibration Jesus, another may call it Shango, and yet another may call it Olumba Olumba Obu.

Personally, I will credit that person who ascribes it to GOD, devoid of any presumptuous promotion or deification of human beings.

Here you are making another mistake. The name in this case is not just a form of identification. For the name is the sound-form of the radiation. The name Jesus is the sound-form of the Love of God, while the name Imanuel is the sound-form of the will of God. You cannot just call them anything you want to.

Deep Sight:

Let us not run around in circles.

1. You state and believe that Abd Ru Shin is the Holy Spirit.

Imanuel is the Holy Spirit.

Deep Sight:

2. You state and affirm a belief in the Trinity comprising Father, Son and Holy Spirit - this is stated in the Grail Message.

Yes

Deep Sight:

Any person can add up 1 & 2 above and see the glaring result: you can therefore not deny the obvious inference. 

What any person arrives at by adding my submissions is the person’s conclusion. I implore all readers to intuitively weigh and examine my words; where ones intuition does not unite with my words, there the person should follow his/her intuition and not my words.

Deep Sight:

What is "part" of an infinity, anyway?

I have already treated this above.

Deep Sight:

Do you not realize that such a "part" must perforce itself bear the quality of infinity - just as surely as fractions of numbers themselves contain an infinity of fractions along the infinite number line. Thus stating that any person is a 'part' of God in the context you use does indeed amount to equating that person with God.

No. It does not. A cup of water from the Atlantic Ocean does not equate to the Atlantic Ocean. It remains a part of the oceans and not the ocean itself.

Deep Sight:

He described his own countenance as Parsifal in the Grail Castle, describing himself as "glorious, imperious, perfect" and commanding men to "bow down" before such imperious glory.

If that is not a demand for worship I wonder what else is. Do you require me to source the quote within the Grail Message? I will.

Where did Abd-ru-shin describe Himself as “glorious. Imperious, perfect”? Where did Abd-ru-shin command men to “bow down” before him?

Honestly I don’t know where you got the things you referenced above. The Grail Message definitely did not say those things that you wrote above.

Deep Sight:

I actually found this, coming from you, to be tragically sad. I deeply regret that you could have such a view of my motives.

Nonetheless, no matter: I state my concern again - and put very simply it is a frank worry that once any body of writing is accepted as infallible and ABSOLUTELY correct in truth, then the person accepting that can NEVER think outside that manual, and can NEVER challenge anything in that manual.

For me, that is a profound limitation in the quest for truth.

I apologize for making a wrong presumption of your motives. I was afraid of being drawn into comparing the bible to the Grail Message, that was why I skipped your question. Well now that you have rephrased your question, I will offer my perception:

The purpose of all any spiritual book or scripture should be to point man to the Truth. To bear witness to the Truth, or to the will of God. The intuition is always in accord with the will of God, so wherever any book or scriptures does not unite with ones intuition, one should drop the book and its teachings.

But when all the contents of a book unites with ones intuition; the individual should live to the teaching because such is tantamount to living according to ones intuition.

This is not limiting the individual’s view in any way; it is rather liberating it. For one should only live according to ones intuition.

This is not a limitation of the Truth. For the Truth is evidenced in the intuitive perception of man.

As always thanks and remain blessed.

Deep Sight:

@ Justcool -

M_Nwankwo spoke about the Trinity in another thread, and I quote him -

Observe the bolded words in red.

Does the Grail Message not teach that Abd Ru Shin is the Holy Spirit?

@Deepsight

While I agree with m_nwankow’s explanation in the post that you provided, I will not use the expression “God the son,” and “God the Holy Spirit.” Not necessarily because they are wrong but because I’m not familiar with those expression. So I will stick with what I am familiar with.

It is not wrong to call Jesus “the son of God” neither is it wrong to call Imanuel "the Holy spirit" or the “son of man.”

In reality they are both sons (parts) of God; or they are both channels in which God the father works. It is God the father that works in both Jesus and Imanuel.

Imanuel became personal as an act of will of God; God created the worlds through this act of His will, Imanuel. Therefore Imanuel embodies the creative will of God the Father.

Jesus became personal through an act of Love. God saved mankind through Jesus. Therefore Jesus embodies the Love of God the Father.

However it is wrong to call any of them (Jesus and Imanuel) God because there are parts of God and not God in His entirety.

They are both eternally connected to God the father and are one with Him.

So while there may be nothing wrong with the expression ‘God the son’ and ‘God the Holy Spirit’ a witty person may pick on the arrangement of the words and point out that it describes Jesus and the Holy Spirit as God.

This is my perception though.

.

Quote from Justcool -

Where did Abd-ru-shin describe Himself as “glorious. Imperious, perfect”? Where did Abd-ru-shin command men to “bow down” before him?

Honestly I don’t know where you got the things you referenced above. The Grail Message definitely did not say those things that you wrote above.

Apologies I had not provided the quote from the Grail Message you demanded earlier. My copy of the Messsage has been at my house and I have been away. Nor was I able to find online copies to quote from. I am home now, and we may address this directly.

Extracts from the Grail Message [Three-in-One Hardback Volume] -

Describing Parsifal -

"A luminoius head in the most perfect form, cloaked in the eternal movement of the Living Light, which causes every created one who looks at it to lose consciousness and throws him down. The body enveloped in a radiant cloak which gives the impression of a flexible scaly mail, above the head the wings of the dove spread protectingly, thus can you envisage him, powerful, imperious, invincible, unnapproachable, the power of God embodied, the Radiance of God that has taken on form: Parsifal, Son of the Light, in the Primordial Spiritual, standing at the summit of creation. ."

- - - The Grail Message, Hardbound Three-in-one Volume - Page 1015. para 5.

"At that time it was Parsifal who was on Earth in Abd Ru Shin. . ."

- - - The Grail Message, Hardbound Three-in-one Volume - Page 1014. para 9.

"For the Divine, "Son" means a "part", a part of the father that works specially by itself. Son and Father are completely one and can never be separated"

- - - The Grail Message, Hardbound Three-in-one Volume - Page 1013. para 3.

"Perhaps one should rather say, it is only God the Father, who works threefold as one"

- - - The Grail Message, Hardbound Three-in-one Volume - Page 1013. para 5.

And the message does admonish man to bow down before his God.

Need I say more? Is it not obvious that the authour has deified himself as one and equal to God?

I can quote much much more, which affirms the point if you insist, for the sake of the non-partisan reader.

@Deepsight

Thanks for your reply.

Deep Sight:

Apologies I had not provided the quote from the Grail Message you demanded earlier. My copy of the Messsage has been at my house and I have been away. Nor was I able to find online copies to quote from. I am home now, and we may address this directly.

Thanks for providing the extracts but I am afraid they are not helping your case. Here is why:

Deep Sight:

Extracts from the Grail Message [Three-in-One Hardback Volume] -

Describing Parsifal -

"A luminoius head in the most perfect form, cloaked in the eternal movement of the Living Light, which causes every created one who looks at it to lose consciousness and throws him down. The body enveloped in a radiant cloak which gives the impression of a flexible scaly mail, above the head the wings of the dove spread protectingly, thus can you envisage him, powerful, imperious, invincible, unnapproachable, the power of God embodied, the Radiance of God that has taken on form: Parsifal, Son of the Light, in the Primordial Spiritual, standing at the summit of creation. ."  - - - The Grail Message, Hardbound Three-in-one Volume - Page 1015. para 5.

The description above is about Parsifal in the Grail castle, and not Abd-ru-shin on earth.
Parsifal is the pure gate through which Imanuel radiates into creation. Parsifal and Imanuel are inseparable; or one can equally say that Parsifal is animated by Imanuel. His innermost core is the Divine unsubstantiate radiation of a part of Imanuel.

Parsifal’s body or cloak is made of the finest of all the primordial spiritual substances and this body was fashioned the Primordial Queen. From the radiations of her mantle, the Primordial Queen gave the first-form giving cloak for Parsifal. Thus Parsifal’s core is eternally connected to Imanuel; while, through Parsifal’s body(cloak) Parsifal is connected to the Primordial Queen.

A part of Imanuel remained in the Grail castle at the furthest point of the Divine realm; it is this part of Imanuel that is called the son of man. From the Grail Castle at the furthest point in the Divine realm, this part of Imanuel radiated outwards, outside the Divine realm. This Divine unsubstantiate radiation of Imanuel outside the Devine realm received a cloak from the Primordial Queen. This is Parsifal. So in the Grail castle in the Divine we have Imanuel, while in the Grail castle at the summit of creation we have Parsifal. They are two and yet they work as one.

This is why Parsifal is described as “powerful, imperious, invincible unapproachable, the power of God.” Parsifal is not God; and should not be worshipped. Abd-ru-shin never asked anybody to worship or bow down before Parsifal. 

Abd-ru-shin never said that Parsifal is God; such would be blasphemy. Parsifal is the Pure Gate to the Divine. He is the bridge that leads from the Devine to Creation, i.e. the Primordial spiritual realm. 

Deep Sight:


"At that time it was Parsifal who was on Earth in Abd Ru Shin. . ."

- - - The Grail Message, Hardbound Three-in-one Volume - Page 1014. para 9.

Parsifal does not necessarily equate to Abd-ru-shin, in His entirety. Even incarnations of Primordial spiritual beings on earth does not mean that the entire primordial spiritual being leaves the primordial spiritual plane and incarnates on earth. Only a part of the being incarnates, while the other part remains in the Primordial spiritual plane.

From my description of Parsifal you can already envisage that Parsifal occupies a very important position at the summit of creation. He cannot leave there without creation suffering great harm; thus He remains there. Through Him the Power that sustains creation flows from above into creation. So if He leaves, creation is lost.

I will give an example; When the Primordial Lion(a primodial spirit with a human form) in the Grail Castle at the Primordial spiritual plane incarnated on earth. This lion performs a very important task in the Primordial Spiritual, his task is that he filters heroism from the radiation of Parsifal and hence he radiates heroism to all that needs it in creation. This is a task that can not be stopped or even interrupted. So while he was on earth he remained in the Grail castle performing his task, only a part of him incarnated into the earth.

Indeed no physical body can carry an entire Primordial spiritual being! Nor can the earth carry any Divine being in its entirety. Each of the Devine beings at the steps of the Throne of God is bigger in size than the entire earth! Also keep in mind that Jesus and Imanuel are not just Devine beings, they are beings of Divine unsubstantiality, in that they are parts of God.

Now back to Parsifal. Parsifal’s volition to travel to all parts of creation took on form. It was this volition of Parsifal that incarnated on earth and wrote the Grail Message.

This is what is meant by the excerpt above. After writing the Grail message something tremedrouse, which I cannot explain here, happend to Abd-ru-shin. This is where I have to stop at the moment. There is more about the connection between Abd-ru-shin and Parsifal and Imanuel. But I will not say it all here; one needs to have read the Grail message before he can understand this. That’s why lectures dealing with this are in third volume of the Grail message. But we can go deeper if you want and I can explain to you how Imanuel the son of man was able to visit the earth; however, for the sake of those who have not read the Grail Message, I will not go to that length in a public forum like this. If you wish for us to go deeper, you can write me a mail at:

xxxxxxxx@******.com.

Please let me know as soon as you acknowledge this e-mail address so that I can remove it from this post.

Deep Sight:

"For the Divine, "Son" means a "part", a part of the father that works specially by itself. Son and Father are completely one and can never be separated"

- - - The Grail Message, Hardbound Three-in-one Volume - Page 1013. para 3.

"Perhaps one should rather say, it is only God the Father, who works threefold as one"

- - - The Grail Message, Hardbound Three-in-one Volume - Page 1013. para 5.

And the message does admonish man to bow down before his God.

Need I say more? Is it not obvious that the authour has deified himself as one and equal to God?

I can quote much more, which affirms the point if you insist, for the sake of the non-partisan reader.

No it does not. God has two sons: Jesus and Imanuel. None of these two sons of God should be worshiped for they are just parts of God the Father and not God the father in His entirety. Only God the Father should be worshipped.

Both sons of God were able to visit the earth through a process of radiation on which I will offer my perception if you write to me through my e-mail.

Abd-ru-shin never equated Himself to God!

This is my perception, based on my experiencing of the Grail Message; I hope m_nwankwo, whose opinions we both respect, would offer his own perceptions too, especially where his perceptions differ from mine. So that you can have a broader view.

Thanks and remain blessed.

I advise every reader of this post to personally read the Grail Message, and have a personal perception or experiencing of the Grail Message.

Justcool, I have got the email, please delete.

@ Justcool - I will reach you by email regarding the further discussions you offered.

However for the present purpose, and in reference to your description of the process of incarnation by radiation, etc, let me ask you just one question which i believe will help to clarify my perspective to you.

Who was Jesus of Nazareth?

When on Earth, would you say that Jesus was not the incarnated love of God (as per the teaching evinced in christian doctrine and the message?)

Would you say that the process of incarnation by radiation did not apply to Jesus. In view of your explanations, you surely cannot say this. If that process does apply to Jesus, and he yet remained while on earth the incarnation of that self same personage within divinity being the love of God, then surely the process of radiation you have described does not remove the inference that Abd Ru Shin was the incarnated parsifal on earth - whilst he remained in the Grail Castle!

If Jesus remained the incarnation of the love on Earth, then Abd Ru Shin remains the incarnation of the will on Earth. . .going by the Grail Message.

Thus saying Abd Ru Shin is not Parsifal will be like saying Jesus is not the same divine personage of the love of God. . .

What has all this got to do with Wolfram Von Eschenbach's Parsifal? I remember asking this a while back, about a year or 2 ago, and not receiving a response. What is the signficance of Parsifal being a Fool?

Did he really do all those things that legend says he did? Did he rape the wife of Lahelin's brother? Is it the same Parsifal whose name means "'right through the middle' for a false love cut its furrow through the middle of your mother's heart."

I am really confused by this grail legend message because it sounds nothing like the original grail legend except that the names are the same.

Ah is this really the case

Pastor AIO:

What has all this got to do with Wolfram Von Eschenbach's Parsifal? I remember asking this a while back, about a year or 2 ago, and not receiving a response. What is the signficance of Parsifal being a Fool?

Did he really do all those things that legend says he did? Did he despoil the wife of Lahelin's brother? Is it the same Parsifal whose name means "'right through the middle' for a false love cut its furrow through the middle of your mother's heart."

I am really confused by this grail legend message because it sounds nothing like the original grail legend except that the names are the same.

^^^ According to the Grail Message, the Legend of the Grail had been transmitted to mankind in varied forms through writing, visions, inspired poetry and the like in much the same way as you once said to me that all peoples of the world may derive a common truth in that such may simply arise unbidden within their intuitive perceptions. In this way, the Grail Message says, parts of the legend of the Grail have filtered down to mankind.

However, as the message says, the legend has, as with all things human, been distorted, compressed, misapprehended and altogeter twisted in many particulars, such that the pure undimmed and undiluted truth has been quite lost.

The writer of the Grail Message claims to set out the pure undiluted truth regarding Parsifal: in this, towards the end of his lectures (which form the Grail Message) he discloses that he is in fact the incarnation of Parsifal on Earth.

Parsifal is said to be (according to the writer of the Grail Message), the part of God that was thrust out of the divine and anchored at the summit of creation to convey the creative radiation of God and thereby bring the creations into existence. He is therefore said to stand at the summit of creation as the creative will itself in action.

The Grail Message states that this Parsifal is himself the Holy Spirit - and thus part of the truine Godhead - which is not really triune but simply God the Father working threefold. In my view this amounts to indicating that Parsifal is virtually God itself in Creation. You can thus understand my concerns when the writer of the Grail Message claims to be the incarnation of Parsifal on Earth. It is actually a huge claim, which has huge implications in terms of the supposed origin of the writer as a Divine Being.

The Grail Message is clear on this. It states that God has two sons.

It states that there is the Son of God and the Son of Man. It states that Jesus is the "Son of God" because he came directly out of God and moved speedily to the plane of matter without stopping and thus did not take on the nature of the realms in-between. It describes Parsifal (to be precise: his inner core - Immanuel) as the second Son of God and that this one is called the "Son of Man" because of his extensive journey through the human worlds DURING WHICH he took on the cloaks of the realms in between. It states that all references in the Bible to Jesus as being the "Son of Man" are actually errors and misperceptions.

In short, in my view, the writer claims to be the Holy Spirit himself. Although it is very clear within the Grail Message, Justcool denies this: he will contend to you that it is a process of radiation and as such the writer was not really claiming this, but only claiming that a part of such a divine being was radiated to earth in Abd Ru Shin.

You may compare the following quotes and make of them what you will -

Deep Sight:


"At that time it was Parsifal who was on Earth in Abd Ru Shin. . ."

- - - The Grail Message, Hardbound Three-in-one Volume - Page 1014. para 9.

"Perhaps one should rather say, it is only God the Father, who works threefold as one"

- - - The Grail Message, Hardbound Three-in-one Volume - Page 1013. para 5.

Against what Justcool interpretes -

Parsifal’s volition to travel to all parts of creation took on form. It was this volition of Parsifal that incarnated on earth and wrote the Grail Message.

You may want to play a game of "Spot the difference." Up to you to make your own interpretation.

The comforter that Jesus said he would send. Of course that promise by Jesus has been latched on to by Islamists, Pagans and even latter - day christ-pretenders - all claiming their founders/ teachers to be the promised one. Muhammad is said to be the promised one. Abd Ru Shin is said to be the promised one. Olumba Obu is said to be the promised one. Guru Maharaji is said to be the promised one. Jesu Oyigbo is said to be the promised one. Even the Dalai Lama is said to be the promised one. Haba.

I dont know if you have read the Grail Message and I dont know if you are comfortable with these claims within it. I also dont know if you are interested enough for us to open a thread to discuss "Parsifal."