Christmas: Pagan or Not?

For some time now, there has been an onslaught on the Christmas celebration which, for Christians, is a celebration of the nativity of Jesus.

This onslaught, before now, has been chiefly led by the Watch Tower Society of Pennsylvania, or what most people call the Jehovah’s Witnesses.

Their position has been that Christmas is a pagan festival which no Christian should partake in; that there is no where in the bible where anyone was asked to celebrate it.

Also that when you celebrate it, you are actually not worshiping the god of Christians who is also called YHWH or Jehovah or Yahweh, but some other deity which is an abomination unto god.

These days, the onslaught has taken a new and even more intense dimension with more and more people in Nigeria claiming the same thing.




The likes of Daddy Freeze and Reno Omokri are the latest people to join the fray. With Daddy Freeze claiming that the celebration of Christmas is the celebration of Nimrod or Baal; gods from the middle east.

Reno Omokri claims that since god did not tell anyone to celebrate it, then celebrating it will be an offence to god. He uses the old testament to back up his point.

So, is the Nativity of Jesus or the celebration of it popularly called Christmas, pagan?

Is there truly no where in the bible where anyone celebrated the Christmas? Whom do Christians worship when they celebrate Christmas, YHWH, or some other pagan god?

What does it matter the day on which Christians celebrate Christmas?

But before I try to explore these questions with you, I would like to clarify my part in all of these since I am an atheist.

So why should an atheist be concerned about a Christian question? And can he, by the virtue of being an atheist, have a valid opinion on matters of Christianity?

It is important that I make known here that I have a Christian background like most atheists I know. During my years in the Christian church, I attended various Christian congregations on invitation of my friends and also on my volition.

I have also read the bible several times before too. I know enough to tell those who say that I am not a Christian, therefore I don’t have the spirit of god to know spiritual things that; the spirit of god spoke to Balaam through the mouth of a donkey; and that an atheist is worth more than billions of donkeys!

He didn’t die for the donkey; he died, according to you, for the atheist. So, if he can speak through the mouth of a donkey, how much more an atheist!

It is important I clear up this point because there are those who, by telling themselves I am not a Christian, therefore can’t have a valid opinion in this regard; cover their minds with a thick blanket and so they already disagree with me even before I say anything.

Haven got that problem out of the way, I will now proceed to explore those questions I raised with you, and hope that you can get my point.

The first question: is the Nativity of Jesus or the celebration of it popularly called Christmas, pagan?

you see, when you say a thing “is…”, you are actually making a statement defining or describing that thing. This means that whatever you say after the “is”, is a statement of one or more of the characteristics of the thing in question.

This follows that, the more of the characteristics you put in the description, the more accurate your description would be.

So, when you say that the Feast of The Nativity of Jesus or Christmas, is pagan or of pagan origin, I really hope you know what you are saying, Daddy Freeze and Reno Omokri?

When the boy was born, god sent a town-crier angel to announce his birth and the angel says: “…do not be afraid. I bring you good news that will cause great joy for all the people. Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is the Messiah, the Lord.” Luke 2:10-11 (NIV).

The passage above describes the birth of Jesus, otherwise called Christmas, as a “good news” and it says “it will cause great joy for all the people.” It went further to give the significance for the day by saying: “Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is the Messiah, the Lord.”

The birth of Jesus has roots in the bible, and not in paganism, like we have seen above. It is important that if I want to disagree with a thing, then I have to disagree with what that thing is, and not what I fraudulently turn around.

Is there truly nowhere in the bible where anyone celebrated the Christmas?

I am surprised this argument comes up at all especially from those who read the bible very often.

Luke 2:13-14 (NIV) says: “Suddenly a great company of the heavenly host appeared with the angel, praising God and saying, “Glory to God in the highest heaven, and on earth peace to those on whom his favor rests.”

I think the above verses have all the trappings of celebration. They praised god, and god never stopped them. They sang the first Christmas carol; the same one I hear Christians sing today.

To answer the question who Christians worship on that day, you only need to go to the church on Christmas day to find out. All my past years in the church on Christmas day, I have never heard of Baal, Nimrod, Saturnalia mentioned.

I have heard the Gloria being sang. Below is the Gloria and I would like those who say it is Baal worship to point to where Baal is mentioned in the Gloria below:

Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace to people of good will. We praise you, we bless you, we adore you, we glorify you, we give you thanks for your great glory, Lord God, heavenly King, O God almighty Father.
Lord Jesus Christ, Only Begotten Son, Lord God, Lamb of God, Son of the Father, you take away the sins of the world, have mercy on us; you take away the sins of the world, receive our prayer; you are seated at the right hand of the Father, have mercy on us.
For You alone are the Holy One, you alone are the Lord, you alone are the Most-High, Jesus Christ, with the Holy Spirit, in the glory of God the Father. Amen.

What does it matter the day on which Christians celebrate Christmas?

Those who object the celebration of Christmas often have a problem with 25th of December, saying it is an evil day as many pagan festivals are celebrated on that day.

Well, bible says god created heaven and the earth, and also day and night. Genesis 1. It also says:

“For through him God created everything…God created the whole universe through him and for him…and in union with him all things have their proper place.” Including 25th of December. Col 1:16-17.

Should a day be set aside for the celebration of Christmas? Genesis 1:14 it says: “And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years…” (NIV)

The above means that the aim of creating day and night would be defeated if they do not show time that the bible describes as sacred. In good news bible, it says “…let it show times for religious festivals…”

Political and economic implications

Another reason I, as an atheist feel compelled to have a say on this issue is because of the possible political and economic implications it may have in Nigeria.

On the economic front, we only need to the shopping malls on Christmas day to see the impact Christmas has on the economy. the malls are filled to the brim with little or no space to accommodate customers who come for shopping.

That people are spending means jobs are secured! If people do not spend, then there will be no growth in economic activities. And we live at a time of economic hardship!

If people are not spending, the situation will be worse and we cannot afford to have a worse situation especially at a time the ineffective Buhari is president.

Of course, we can make the argument that the celebrations we do during Christmas, can be done during other holidays. I as an atheist do not have a problem with that as long as we can spend and stimulate our economy.

But as it stands now, no other holiday has the smell, enthusiasm and characteristics and glamour Christmas has. So, what do you do? You want to abolish a thing when you have nothing to replace it?

Politically, I really hope Christians do not become too smart for their own good? While you are clamouring for the abolition of Christmas, remember that the Muslims also have three major holidays as well and this is how the Nigerian state is structured.

Abolish Christmas, then you will just be committing political suicide. Since we do not have third force in Nigeria yet, it is important we keep the balance between Christianity and Islam as the two both dilute the excesses of the other.

@donnie @ubenedictus @joagbaje @truthislight @acidiosis

Thought provoking and insightful

MiddleDimension:
You want to abolish a thing when you have nothing to replace it?

watch tower could not succeed in abolishing Christmas, is it only daddy freeze and Reno Omokri who are so insignificant compared to the billions of Christians and non Christians that are celebrating Christmas worldwide will now succeed in abolishing the celebration?

They are just chasing wild geese they should channel their energy to something productive.

The problem we have in Christianity is fear, and the scripture says perfection love cast out fear (1John 4:17). Christians lack true relationship with God and as such they don't know their God, they are only governed by fear. In not for the intense relationship I was pulled into from the moment I got born again I would given up. I faced a lot, and I was tempted to let go of God, but there is this bond that has developed through relationship and as such I just find myself hanging on no matter what. Love is strong, the world has not truly know love.

You would see your lover nailing you on the cross and afflicting pain on you, and you just find yourself saying, "I don't understand what you are doing but I just love you. Yeah it hurting but I can't stop my heart from loving you. I love you even if you want to ruin my life, I just love. Go ahead and and ruin my life, I can't stop loving you, it's all I know to do".

This morning I was listening to a testimony of a man. He was very sick and was about to die, he has kids, a wife, a lovely family. Well, he lay down one day and just give up, he said to God, "if you are going to kill me then just go ahead, I have let go, just kill me". He burst into tears, the pain in his body has become unbearable, and God has refused to do anything about it, he was upset with God and was like, "just go ahead and kill me".

Surprisingly as he was saying all that he didn't know when he burst in worship. You can't hide what is in your heart, if there is love there it will come it. This man was like, "God you are about to kill me and make my wife a widow, you are about to make my children fatherless, but I just love you, I can't help myself, I adore you". I know that feeling, I have been there several times. And as he continued to worship God he felt this liquid fire come upon him and a completely damaged liver was healed.

This world have no idea what love is, this kind of love is something only developed in an intimate relationship with God. Once that bond has been formed, once love is fully matured there is no longer fear. It's this love that brought me to the understanding that Daddy (God) adores me and would never see a common celebration of a holiday as an avenue to be angry with me or disown me.

olaric:
Thought provoking and insightful

What's insightful in lame excuses from the OP of this thread ?

Angels announced the birth of Jesus Christ.
Agreed. Mary & Joseph were happy too.
1.
Did the angels announce his birthday annually and did his human parents celebrate Jesus birthday annually, year after year ?

2
Did annual birthday celebrations take place during Jesus earthly sojourn?


3.
Where the celebrants of annual birthday celebrations followers of Christ?

4.
During Jesus days on earth, was birthday
celebration a pagan practice?

5. Did Jesus Christ or his followers participate in annual birthday celebrations?

6.
Is the bible against pagan celebrations?
Gal 4:8-11.

7.
Jesus himself never had a birthday
party neither were any of his disciples,
friends and family. To make matters
worse, he lost his cousin, John
the Baptist to a pagan birthday party.
Matt 28:19,20 Jesus says "Teaching them to observe ALL the things I have commanded you",
Is Pagan practices, which includes annual birthday celebrations, among All the things Commanded by Jesus Christ?

8.
Jesus Christ is our perfect and sinless Master.
In his perfection, he stayed away from annual birthday celebrations, are you& all Christmas celebrants perfect and wiser than Christ to dictate for him what his followers should practice?

***
If you can't follow Christ Jesus according to his terms, you're on your own.
Christmas celebration amounts to forcing Christ ,so to say, to accept our own ways and standards on our own terms, contrary to Jesus Christ terms.
Need I tell you, no Master would approve that?

Janosky:


What's insightful in lame excuses from the OP of this thread ?

Angels announced the birth of Jesus Christ.
Agreed. Mary & Joseph were happy too.
1.
Did the angels announce his birthday annually and did his human parents celebrate Jesus birthday annually, year after year ?

2
Did annual birthday celebrations take place during Jesus earthly sojourn?


3.
Where the celebrants of annual birthday celebrations followers of Christ?

4.
During Jesus days on earth, was birthday
celebration a pagan practice?

5. Did Jesus Christ or his followers participate in annual birthday celebrations?

6.
Is the bible against pagan celebrations?
Gal 4:8-11.

7.
Jesus himself never had a birthday
party neither were any of his disciples,
friends and family. To make matters
worse, he lost his cousin, John
the Baptist to a pagan birthday party.
Matt 28:19,20 Jesus says "Teaching them to observe ALL the things I have commanded you",
Is Pagan practices, which includes annual birthday celebrations, among All the things Commanded by Jesus Christ?

8.
Jesus Christ is our perfect and sinless Master.
In his perfection, he stayed away from annual birthday celebrations, are you& all Christmas celebrants perfect and wiser than Christ to dictate for him what his followers should practice?

***
If you can't follow Christ Jesus according to his terms, you're on your own.
Christmas celebration amounts to forcing Christ ,so to say, to accept our own ways and standards on our own terms, contrary to Jesus Christ terms.
Need I tell you, no Master would approve that?

The only reason there's war everywhere in the world is because people don't accept the fact that everyone has the right to air their views and beliefs. The OP has expressed his views, and you would do well to not get your blood pressure up over that.

I agree with 60% of what he has written; and I am entitled to my opinion too.

olaric:


The only reason there's war everywhere in the world is because people don't accept the fact that everyone has the right to air their views and beliefs. The OP has expressed his views, and you would do well to not get your blood pressure up over that.

I agree with 60% of what he has written; and I am entitled to my opinion too.

what are the parts you don't agree wth?

Janosky:


What's insightful in lame excuses from the OP of this thread ?

Angels announced the birth of Jesus Christ.
Agreed. Mary & Joseph were happy too.
1.
Did the angels announce his birthday annually and did his human parents celebrate Jesus birthday annually, year after year ?

2
Did annual birthday celebrations take place during Jesus earthly sojourn?


3.
Where the celebrants of annual birthday celebrations followers of Christ?

4.
During Jesus days on earth, was birthday
celebration a pagan practice?

5. Did Jesus Christ or his followers participate in annual birthday celebrations?

6.
Is the bible against pagan celebrations?
Gal 4:8-11.

7.
Jesus himself never had a birthday
party neither were any of his disciples,
friends and family. To make matters
worse, he lost his cousin, John
the Baptist to a pagan birthday party.
Matt 28:19,20 Jesus says "Teaching them to observe ALL the things I have commanded you",
Is Pagan practices, which includes annual birthday celebrations, among All the things Commanded by Jesus Christ?

8.
Jesus Christ is our perfect and sinless Master.
In his perfection, he stayed away from annual birthday celebrations, are you& all Christmas celebrants perfect and wiser than Christ to dictate for him what his followers should practice?

***
If you can't follow Christ Jesus according to his terms, you're on your own.
Christmas celebration amounts to forcing Christ ,so to say, to accept our own ways and standards on our own terms, contrary to Jesus Christ terms.
Need I tell you, no Master would approve that?

the questions you raised all have answers. but since jehovah's witnesses practice a christianity that is not mystery based, or revelation based, you just won't understand or accept it.

Janosky:


What's insightful in lame excuses from the OP of this thread ?

Angels announced the birth of Jesus Christ.
Agreed. Mary & Joseph were happy too.
1.
Did the angels announce his birthday annually and did his human parents celebrate Jesus birthday annually, year after year ?

2
Did annual birthday celebrations take place during Jesus earthly sojourn?


3.
Where the celebrants of annual birthday celebrations followers of Christ?

4.
During Jesus days on earth, was birthday
celebration a pagan practice?

5. Did Jesus Christ or his followers participate in annual birthday celebrations?

6.
Is the bible against pagan celebrations?
Gal 4:8-11.

7.
Jesus himself never had a birthday
party neither were any of his disciples,
friends and family. To make matters
worse, he lost his cousin, John
the Baptist to a pagan birthday party.
Matt 28:19,20 Jesus says "Teaching them to observe ALL the things I have commanded you",
Is Pagan practices, which includes annual birthday celebrations, among All the things Commanded by Jesus Christ?

8.
Jesus Christ is our perfect and sinless Master.
In his perfection, he stayed away from annual birthday celebrations, are you& all Christmas celebrants perfect and wiser than Christ to dictate for him what his followers should practice?

***
If you can't follow Christ Jesus according to his terms, you're on your own.
Christmas celebration amounts to forcing Christ ,so to say, to accept our own ways and standards on our own terms, contrary to Jesus Christ terms.
Need I tell you, no Master would approve that?

the fact that Herod celebrated his birthday is enough to show any wise person that ancient Jews did birthdays and Herod was not pagan he also served Jehovah.

Mcuzy:
the fact that Herod celebrated his birthday is enough to show any wise person that ancient Jews did birthdays and Herod was not pagan he also served Jehovah.

Lol....
If you deh get 'high' sometimes,abeg you, quit the habit NOW.....

Who lied to you that pagan King Herod is a Jew?
Who deh deceive you say king Herod serve Jehovah?
Would a servant of Jehovah commit the sin of adultery as king Herod did & Jesus Christ turns a blind eye?

MiddleDimension:


the questions you raised all have answers. but since jehovah's witnesses practice a christianity that is not mystery based, or revelation based, you just won't understand or accept it.

Those questions go wound your grand delusions bad bad..... Don't say i didn't warn you...... lol.
Atheist deh get which revelation?
From whom?
You can't answer shishi......
No dey deceive yourself.