Mods please don’t ban me cause I’m talking about Islam. This is a political thread as well, so please bear with me.



When people say freedom of religion, as they refer to Islam it really makes me wonder, do these guys understand what Islam is.

How can you have a religion that in itself, is a political system?

Every true Muslim wants to live under Sharia and not a democracy, yet, in a democracy they are allowed freedom of religion. The same freedom that would allow them turn said democracy, into a Sharia system.

I watched an interview of random Muslims in America, the interviewer asked them, “would you rather democracy or sharia” and all of them said Sharia. I mean ALL OF THEM.

You never hear of any other religion forming a political system that usurps a seculars country’s mode of governance, only Islam.

“Freedom of religion”!

So what if I had a religion that allowed me to steal at will, should I also be allowed freedom to steal cause my religion says so? So why say freedom when Islam seeks to take away from the very system that guarantees such freedom.

Take Nigeria for example, a secular state, yet Sharia is already taking over Muslim dominated states, with sharia courts that run parallel to our Nations judicial system. There is even a religious police that has been setup. All these moves show a gradual and steady movement towards full blown Sharia as a political system.

So be careful when you say “Freedom of religion”, cause some people’s so called “religion” means to take away your freedom.

Not all we have Liberal Muslim OP

Chemike16:
Not all we have Liberal Muslim OP

You are not understanding my point. Those that were interviewed in the US were also “liberal” Muslims, but it doesn’t change the fact that is a mandate by their religion.

Unless by liberal you mean, a non practicing Muslim.

Religion is a way of life, let's respect all... am not condemning your writeup. But let's respect differences.

These are some of the LAWS OF SHARIA

Theft is punishable by amputation of the hands (Quran 5:38).

• Criticizing or denying any part of the Quran is punishable by death.

• Criticizing Muhammad or denying that he is a prophet is punishable by death.

• Criticizing or denying Allah is punishable by death

• A Muslim who becomes a non-Muslim is punishable by death

• A non-Muslim who leads a Muslim away from Islam is punishable by death.

• A non-Muslim man who marries a Muslim woman is punishable by death.

• A woman or girl who has been raped cannot testify in court against her rapist(s).

• Testimonies of 4 male witnesses are required to prove rape of a female (Quran 24:13).

• A woman or girl who alleges rape without producing 4 male witnesses is guilty of adultery.

• A woman or girl found guilty of adultery is punishable by death

• A male convicted of rape can have his conviction dismissed by marrying his victim.

• Muslim men have sexual rights to any woman/girl not wearing the Hijab

• A woman can have 1 husband, who can have up to 4 wives; Muhammad can have more.

• A man can marry an infant girl and consummate the marriage when she is 9 years old.

• Girls' clitoris should be cut (Muhammad's words, Book 41, Kitab Al-Adab, Hadith 5251).

• A man can beat his wife for insubordination (see Quran 4:34 and Religion of Peace).

• A man can unilaterally divorce his wife; a wife needs her husband's consent to divorce.
• A divorced wife loses custody of all children over 6 years of age or when they exceed it.

• A woman's testimony in court, allowed in property cases, carries ½ the weight of a man's.

• A female heir inherits half of what a male heir inherits (see Mathematics in Quran).

• A woman cannot speak alone to a man who is not her husband or relative.

• Meat to eat must come from animals that have been sacrificed to Allah - i.e., be "Halal."

• Muslims should engage in Taqiyya and lie to non-Muslims to advance Islam.

whatisthetruth:
Mods please don’t ban me cause I’m talking about Islam. This is a political thread as well, so please bear with me.



When people say freedom of religion, as they refer to Islam it really makes me wonder, do these guys understand what Islam is.

How can you have a religion that in itself, is a political system?

Every true Muslim wants to live under Sharia and not a democracy, yet, in a democracy they are allowed freedom of religion. The same freedom that would allow them turn said democracy, into a Sharia system.

I watched an interview of random Muslims in America, the interviewer asked them, “would you rather democracy or sharia” and all of them said Sharia. I mean ALL OF THEM.

You never hear of any other religion forming a political system that usurps a seculars country’s mode of governance, only Islam.

“Freedom of religion”!

So what if I had a religion that allowed me to steal at will, should I also be allowed freedom to steal cause my religion says so? So why say freedom when Islam seeks to take away from the very system that guarantees such freedom.

Take Nigeria for example, a secular state, yet Sharia is already taking over Muslim dominated states, with sharia courts that run parallel to our Nations judicial system. There is even a religious police that has been setup. All these moves show a gradual and steady movement towards full blown Sharia as a political system.

So be careful when you say “Freedom of religion”, cause some people’s so called “religion” means to take away your freedom.

I don't quite agree with your facts Judaism in its natural setting was a theocracy and Christianity too was the same initially.

That had to be beaten out by societal reform.
The religions did not change the society did.

All the Monotheistic religions seek to control society. Society has to take them o not pacify them or pander to their threats as Nairaland appears to be doing.

Religion of pieces....

How can you practice democracy and have Sharia ...
Two systems in one government......

The Australian style is the best

padi94:
Religion is a way of life, let's respect all... am not condemning your writeup. But let's respect differences.

You still don’t get it. It’s almost like being stuck in the matrix, but take the red pill.

The write up says that Islam is not a religion but a political system.

How come Christians don’t form their own courts? Or have plans to usurp democracy.

You need to understand that Muslims will always, always, want Sharia law above democracy. So you can see that it goes beyond its religion boundary and crosses into politics.

Bro this is clear for all to see.

What system of governance is run in Saudi Arabia?
In Dubai?
In Iran?
Iraq?
Yemen?
Pakistan?
...

Other religions separate “Church” from State, except for Islam.

Do you think you would enjoy the same freedoms you enjoy under democracy if the Muslim population was say 70%?

No! You would now be living under a Sharia government.

omonnakoda:
I don't quite agree with your facts Judaism in its natural setting was a theocracy and Christianity too was the same initially.

That had to be beaten out by societal reform.
The religions did not change the society did.

All the Monotheistic religions seek to control society. Society has to take them o not pacify them or pander to their threats as Nairaland appears to be doing.

Yes Christians have done that in the past due to ignorance, cause even the Bible says:

“Give to Ceaser what is Ceasers and give to God what is God’s”.

Xavfra:
Religion of pieces....

How can you practice democracy and have Sharia ...
Two systems in one government......

The Australian style is the best

Exactly!

The sharia is present even under our democracy, so now imagine if they were an overwhelming majority.

Freedoms of religion, yet that same so called “religion”, takes away your political freedom.

But once upon a time the church was a political system run by the Pope.
Muslim population has been under threat from time immemorial. Maybe that is why they hv developed it into a political system.

But once again not undermining your writeup.

whatisthetruth:


You still don’t get it. It’s almost like being stuck in the matrix, but take the red pill.

The write up says that Islam is not a religion but a political system.

How come Christians don’t form their own courts? Or have plans to usurp democracy.

You need to understand that Muslims will always, always, want Sharia law above democracy. So you can see that it goes beyond its religion boundary and crosses into politics.

Bro this is clear for all to see.

What system of governance is run in Saudi Arabia?
In Dubai?
In Iran?
Iraq?
Yemen?
Pakistan?
...

Other religions separate “Church” from State, except for Islam.

Do you think you would enjoy the same freedoms you enjoy under democracy if the Muslim population was say 70%?

No! You would now be living under a Sharia government.

• A woman or girl who alleges rape without producing 4 male witnesses is guilty of adultery.

This 6th century law have no place in modern world.

padi94:
But once upon a time the church was a political system run by the Pope.
Muslim population has been under threat from time immemorial. Maybe that is why they hv developed it into a political system.

But once again not undermining your writeup.

“Give to Caesar what is Caesars and give to God what is Gods”

Separation of “Church” and State!

whatisthetruth:


Exactly!

The sharia is present even under our democracy, so now imagine if they were an overwhelming majority.

Freedoms of religion, yet that same so called “religion”, takes away your political freedom.

That's why I still support MNK.........
And that's why we need to divide......

whatisthetruth:
These are some of the LAWS OF SHARIA

Theft is punishable by amputation of the hands (Quran 5:38).

• Criticizing or denying any part of the Quran is punishable by death.

• Criticizing Muhammad or denying that he is a prophet is punishable by death.

• Criticizing or denying Allah is punishable by death

• A Muslim who becomes a non-Muslim is punishable by death

• A non-Muslim who leads a Muslim away from Islam is punishable by death.

• A non-Muslim man who marries a Muslim woman is punishable by death.

• A woman or girl who has been raped cannot testify in court against her rapist(s).

• Testimonies of 4 male witnesses are required to prove rape of a female (Quran 24:13).

• A woman or girl who alleges rape without producing 4 male witnesses is guilty of adultery.

• A woman or girl found guilty of adultery is punishable by death

• A male convicted of rape can have his conviction dismissed by marrying his victim.

• Muslim men have sexual rights to any woman/girl not wearing the Hijab

• A woman can have 1 husband, who can have up to 4 wives; Muhammad can have more.

• A man can marry an infant girl and consummate the marriage when she is 9 years old.

• Girls' clitoris should be cut (Muhammad's words, Book 41, Kitab Al-Adab, Hadith 5251).

• A man can beat his wife for insubordination (see Quran 4:34 and Religion of Peace).

• A man can unilaterally divorce his wife; a wife needs her husband's consent to divorce.
• A divorced wife loses custody of all children over 6 years of age or when they exceed it.

• A woman's testimony in court, allowed in property cases, carries ½ the weight of a man's.

• A female heir inherits half of what a male heir inherits (see Mathematics in Quran).

• A woman cannot speak alone to a man who is not her husband or relative.

• Meat to eat must come from animals that have been sacrificed to Allah - i.e., be "Halal."

• Muslims should engage in Taqiyya and lie to non-Muslims to advance Islam.

I wonder whether you have the capacity or education to do justice to this issue.

Many of these violent and even genocidal commands are in the bible too however SOCIETY moved beyond that without changing the bible e.g.

This quote is not from the Quran but the bible

Numbers 31

Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.


As far as we in Africa are concerned both religions are plagues.

However we have seen from European society that they can reform and I believe that is because many of those things you complain about are Middle Eastern CULTURES even before Islam.

They did not fit in with European culture and were easier for them to discard e.g polygamy ,foo taboos etc

Islam necessarily entails Arabization and some cultures are more susceptible to that than others.

OMG is this true? How can my generation exist with this kind of mind set. Just hope this not true. We say Nigeria is one, what make us one? Evil orientation

Xavfra:



That's why I still support MNK.........
And that's why we need to divide......

Also the declassification of Islam as a religion.

whatisthetruth:


Yes Christians have done that in the past due to ignorance, cause even the Bible says:

“Give to Ceaser what is Ceasers and give to God what is God’s”.

What has give to Caesar got to do with doing something out of ignorance? You are mixing metaphors

If Christians do a thing out of ignorance why can't the same argument apply to Muslims

I am sorry but your reasoning is very shallow.

My point is it is SOCIETY that changed. SOCIETY decided it had enough of the excesses of Christianity and should do the same with Islam when it evolves.

All societies don't evolve at the same pace. There is a huge variation across the Muslim world. How many countries cut off hands for stealing today?
In Tunisia and Turkey Polygamy is banned so we can conclude that SOCIETY can change when it is ready

omonnakoda:
I don't quite agree with your facts Judaism in its natural setting was a theocracy and Christianity too was the same initially.

That had to be beaten out by societal reform.
The religions did not change the society did.

All the Monotheistic religions seek to control society. Society has to take them o not pacify them or pander to their threats as Nairaland appears to be doing.

Stop dragging Christianity along with the religion of Peace.

Christianity was never like Islam. Christianity preaches love from the onset and there will is no beheading/ convert or die things in it.

whatisthetruth:


Also the declassification of Islam as a religion.

We need to divide this country or else this country will consumes us.

omonnakoda:

I wonder whether you have the capacity or education to do justice to this issue.

Many of these violent and even genocidal commands are in the bible too however SOCIETY moved beyond that without changing the bible e.g.

This quote is not from the Quran but the bible

Numbers 31

Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.


As far as we in Africa are concerned both religions are plagues.

However we have seen from European society that they can reform and I believe that is because many of those things you complain about are Middle Eastern CULTURES even before Islam.

They did not fit in with European culture and were easier for them to discard e.g polygamy ,foo taboos etc

Islam necessarily entails Arabization and some cultures are more susceptible to that than others.

Bro I’m not here to preach, but to analyze this so called religion.

Regardless though, anybody that has read the Bible understands the context under which your verses lay. Showing the wrath of God, the punishment for sin. Every Christian by definition follows Jesus because he bore the punishment for all sin.

In so doing, you don’t see Christians rampaging for their God, forming a political system and what not, save for the ignorance of some Christians of old.

However, the Sharia was from Mohammed himself, was it not?

whatisthetruth:


Bro I’m not here to preach, but to analyze this so called religion.

Regardless though, anybody that has read the Bible understands the context under which your verses lay. Showing the wrath of God, the punishment for sin. Every Christian by definition follows Jesus because he bore the punishment for all sin.

In so doing, you don’t see Christians rampaging for their God, forming a political system and what not, save for the ignorance of some Christians of old.

However, the Sharia was from Mohammed himself, was it not?

You call this analysis?

ABCthings:
Stop dragging Christianity along with the religion of Peace.

Christianity was never like Islam. Christianity preaches love from the onset and there will is no beheading/ convert or die things in it.

I don't think anything worse has happened to black people than Christianity and Islam


and that includes Ebola and the trans Atlantic slave trade

omonnakoda:

What has give to Caesar got to do with doing something out of ignorance? You are mixing metaphors

If Christians do a thing out of ignorance why can't the same argument apply to Muslims

I am sorry but your reasoning is very shallow.

My point is it is SOCIETY that changed. SOCIETY decided it had enough of the excesses of Christianity and should do the same with Islam when it evolves.

All societies don't evolve at the same pace. There is a huge variation across the Muslim world. How many countries cut off hands for stealing today?
In Tunisia and Turkey Polygamy is banned so we can conclude that SOCIETY can change when it is ready

I am not mixing metaphors!

Case 1
Say you have a biology textbook that says “humans are multi-celled organism”, yet a student reads the book and says “humans are single celled orgasms”.

Case 2
Now you have another book that says “humans are single-celled organisms” and the student reads the book and says “humans are single cell organsms.

In case one, you can blame the reader, for not doing his due diligence.

In case two, you must blame the book and apportion a little blame to the reader for not knowing better.

Such is the case of Christians (case 1) that claimed to follow Jesus yet, couldn’t see the need for separation of Church and State.

“Give to Caesar what is Caesars and to God what is God’s”

Such is also the case for Muslims (case 2) that must abide by Sharia according to the tenants of Islam.

omonnakoda:

You call this analysis?

You see the truth, but you shut your eyes, believing that Islam can ever reform away from Sharia law.

omonnakoda:

I don't think anything worse has happened to black people than Christianity and Islam


and that includes Ebola and the trans Atlantic slave trade

Are you a doctorate degree holder??

jamesversion:


Are you a doctorate degree holder??

I am anonymous

whatisthetruth:


You see the truth, but you shut your eyes, believing that Islam can ever reform away from Sharia law.

Islam will not reform just like Christianity did not reform

Society reformed.
Your language is too emotional to be analytic. I believe your purpose here is just mischief

omonnakoda:

I am anonymous

You dey try.. you're very articulate and your summations are usually very logical and sound. just that like almost every Nigerian, you're also tribalistic... .

jamesversion:


You dey try.. you're very articulate and your summations are usually very logical and sound. just that like almost every Nigerian, you're also tribalistic... .

Lol.
This is a forum for masquerades
I am the opposite of tribalistic. Not one cell in my body is tribalistic
Masquerades cannot be tribalistic

omonnakoda:

Lol.
This is a forum for masquerades
I am the opposite of tribalistic. Not one cell in my body is tribalistic
Masquerades cannot be tribalistic

in all, kudos to you for such a high level of self development. human capacity has always been the best form of development known to man.