TAO11:


"History of Dahomey" by the European slave trader Archibald Dalzel who lived in Dahomey in the 1700s recounts Oyo's ascendancy over Dahomey and others.

Attached below are some interesting screenshots from the work.

Cheers!
cc: Trinitykey

TAO11:


I have to be very frank with you fam, two things become very obvious from your comments:

A deep-rooted ignorance spiced with an over-arching self-consuming hatred.

But in case you wish to be enlightened, then consider the following simple and straightforward information:

(1) The Ijebu defensive wall system (The Sungbo Eredo) dates to centuries earlier than the Benin defensive wall system (The Iya).

So, if you choose to insist on the weird idea that one group influenced the other, then you should at least be consistent enough to say that the Ijebus influenced the Binis (at least in this specific sphere of architecture).

(2) Moreover, defensive wall systems are found all over Yorubaland in pre-colonial times, and some of these are observed and documented by Captain Clapperton and Richard Lander during their travels through Yorubaland in the 1800s.

Mary Ann Barber's "Oshielle, Or, Village Life in the Yoruba Country (1857)", also contains some descriptions of "The polished walls ... [which] shine ... "like the rain clouds, beautifully black,"".

BTW: The general Yoruba words for "town-wall" are "Odi" or "Ìyàrà".
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Read my friend! Read!

Cheers!
cc: Trinitykey

Yujin:

How does this prove Oyo was an empire? I'm aware of this history where the Oyo kingdom at its height forced Abomey to pay tributes. This lasted for about 40years until a new Fon King emerged and called off the bluff of Oyo. That was the genesis of the famous dahomean amazons. Oyo no doubt was great but it never grew to become an empire. The distinctive features of an empire is having a number of diverse nations under the control and use of their conquerors. Oyo was not so. If there's any description of Oyo's political domination of numerous nations incorporating them into the organisation of her political stratagem, state it here and I'll apologise and keep shut.
There are reasons why some strong kingdoms who's army defeated numerous of their neighbours and collect tribute from these defeated nations are not classified as empires. Find out about what I said then you'll understand why Oyo was never an empire despite it's successful stint among few small tribes around her.

Yujin:

How does this prove Oyo was an empire? I'm aware of this history where the Oyo kingdom at its height forced Abomey to pay tributes. This lasted for about 40years until a new Fon King emerged and called off the bluff of Oyo. That was the genesis of the famous dahomean amazons. Oyo no doubt was great but it never grew to become an empire. The distinctive features of an empire is having a number of diverse nations under the control and use of their conquerors. Oyo was not so. If there's any description of Oyo's political domination of numerous nations incorporating them into the organisation of her political stratagem, state it here and I'll apologise and keep shut.
There are reasons why some strong kingdoms who's army defeated numerous of their neighbours and collect tribute from these defeated nations are not classified as empires. Find out about what I said then you'll understand why Oyo was never an empire despite it's successful stint among few small tribes around her.

Yujin:

Lol. I'm not in ignorant man on the history of West Africa and certainly not not foolish to have a hatred of a history that doesn't concern or affect me.
With regards to the Sungbo Eredo moats, even the name gives a hint. Moats are quite different from walls. Kingdoms can afford to build walls as can be seen in other Yoruba and Hausa kingdoms.
The question any intelligent man will ask is for what purpose was the moat built in Ijebuland? Who was the greatest threat that the Ijebus faced to have built the moat? No Kingdom builds a moat of such magnitude just for normal security. It is an empire styled construction that requires thousands of dedicated workers (slaves from vassals) to build. Even Ife can't boast of such. Only Benin or another empire that preceded it could have built such. The 'bilikisu' story is just funny and a clear case of a concocted fairytale. What does 'eredo' mean in Ijebu dialect?

Yujin:

See how Yoruba people lie up and down. I've challenged your people to bring proofs of the so called Oyo empire as written by European explorers but non of them showed face. All that's written about the non-existed empire was concocted by Yoruba scholars just to promote your people. Firstly, you never conquered nupe nor the Fons. At present I don't know about the Borgus but I'll research about them soon.
How can Yorubas claim that Oyo was an empire when a huge chunk of other Yoruba clans were under the Benin empire. Were the Ondos and Ekitis not under the political influence of Benin? Was Oyo ever politically known in Ondo or even Ijebu? Does the moat in Ijebuland not tell you that they once were affiliated with the Binis? Only the Binis in the whole of Nigeria were known for constructing moats for defensive purpose. That one is found in Ijebuland shows the Binis once had some activity over there. This makes it easier yo understand how the Binis got to Lagos. Yorubas never had kings with the title of Oba but after they heard about the title of the Benin King, they had to copy the title and are even trying to claim it at present.
If you don't want me to release more missiles on your empty head, desist from calling Igbos in your discussion on this thread. If you persist, I'll return with bigger guns.

In 1820 a white British commander in lagos visited the oba he was an ethnographer he visited the then disposed oba, oba ovaramen who told the white British man that the obaship was established by a whiteman probably a whitegod

OmoOlofin:
Quoting from the foremost authority on precolonial Benin history, Professor D.M. Bondarenko. He writes and I quote here:

"In terms of this, it is remarkable that Oba, Benin Second dynasty rulers' title, is also the generic notion for designating supreme rulers' titles all over Yorubaland (for example, "Ooni is Oba of Ife" or "the Oba of Oyo is Alaafin" ).

In the meantime, none of the Edo-speaking peoples' rulers is called so except that of Bini*. ... Only the Benin rulers could correspond to the Yoruba "standard" in the Edo-speaking world, where other rulers governed societies whose complexity did not exceed the chiefdom level.

However, it looks unreasonable to reject the notion that the very title of Oba could appear in Benin due only to Yoruba origin of its holders.

At the same time, it is known that the Yoruba did not influence the political systems of other Edo-speaking peoples, that is, peoples whose rulers are not called Oba.

... Historically, ethnographic sources and European writings of the early and mid-sixteenth century (based on relations from Benin of the late fifteenth century) and of the early seventeenth century, also testify to the Second Benin Dynasty's links with Ife."

Reference: Dmitri M. Bondarenko, "Advent of the Second (Oba) Dynasty: Another Assessment of a Benin History Key Point", History in Africa, Vol. 30 (2003), p.71.
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In addition to the foregoing quotation, I would add that, the etymological origin of the Yoruba word "Oba" is from the Yoruba root-word "Ba" which clearly means: "[to] reign-supreme". And in that case, the word "Oba" becomes "the one who reigns-supreme". This is neat and straightforward.


An Edo bigot, on the other hand, would pretend that the word "Oba" is indigenously thiers. This argument, however, encounters an etymological breakdown as the only Edo root-word they may adduce have absolutely nothing to do with "kingship", "rulership", or "monarchy". The Edo root-word "Bà" means "red", "shine" .

cc: Trinitykey, Yujin

In 1820 a white British commander in lagos visited the oba he was an ethnographer he visited the then disposed oba, oba ovaramen who told the white British man that the obaship was established by a whiteman probably a whitegod who had criped into the palace unnoticed and slept with ogiso daughters, who got pregnant and birthed the obaship dynasty, oba eweka 11 after his ascension in 1914 made some unfounded statements for diplomatic reasons linking the benin dynasty to ife, purposely making the statem...

OmoOlofin:
According to Roupell's Officials in the year 1897:

The Benin Kingdom was said --- by Benin chiefs and priests whom Roupell interviewed --- to have been established by an Ife-Yoruba man.

Reference: Captain Ernest Roupell (1897), cited in H. Ling Roth (1903), p.7.

cc: Trinitykey, Yujin

OmoOlofin:
Quoting from the foremost authority on precolonial Benin history, Professor D.M. Bondarenko. He writes and I quote here:

"In terms of this, it is remarkable that Oba, Benin Second dynasty rulers' title, is also the generic notion for designating supreme rulers' titles all over Yorubaland (for example, "Ooni is Oba of Ife" or "the Oba of Oyo is Alaafin" ).

In the meantime, none of the Edo-speaking peoples' rulers is called so except that of Bini*. ... Only the Benin rulers could correspond to the Yoruba "standard" in the Edo-speaking world, where other rulers governed societies whose complexity did not exceed the chiefdom level.

However, it looks unreasonable to reject the notion that the very title of Oba could appear in Benin due only to Yoruba origin of its holders.

At the same time, it is known that the Yoruba did not influence the political systems of other Edo-speaking peoples, that is, peoples whose rulers are not called Oba.

... Historically, ethnographic sources and European writings of the early and mid-sixteenth century (based on relations from Benin of the late fifteenth century) and of the early seventeenth century, also testify to the Second Benin Dynasty's links with Ife."

Reference: Dmitri M. Bondarenko, "Advent of the Second (Oba) Dynasty: Another Assessment of a Benin History Key Point", History in Africa, Vol. 30 (2003), p.71.
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In addition to the foregoing quotation, I would add that, the etymological origin of the Yoruba word "Oba" is from the Yoruba root-word "Ba" which clearly means: "[to] reign-supreme". And in that case, the word "Oba" becomes "the one who reigns-supreme". This is neat and straightforward.


An Edo bigot, on the other hand, would pretend that the word "Oba" is indigenously thiers. This argument, however, encounters an etymological breakdown as the only Edo root-word they may adduce have absolutely nothing to do with "kingship", "rulership", or "monarchy". The Edo root-word "Bà" means "red", "shine".

cc: Trinitykey, Yujin

OmoOlofin:
According to Roupell's Officials in the year 1897:

The Benin Kingdom was said --- by Benin chiefs and priests whom Roupell interviewed --- to have been established by an Ife-Yoruba man.

Reference: Captain Ernest Roupell (1897), cited in H. Ling Roth (1903), p.7.

cc: Trinitykey, Yujin

OmoOlofin:


See attached for my reply. Spambot triggers did it again.

Cheers!
cc: Trinitykey

**William H. Clarke is American.

gregyboy:
[s]Make a screenshot for us please my yoruba attache brother[/s]

gregyboy:
[s]Benin Attache so the coward tribe yoruba repulsed you to or do you just want to make the oba of benin yoruba to hide the shame we colonised you all[/s]

Yujin:
I'll respond to all the replies you made after I've checked those links.

Yujin:
Will respond to this accordingly too.

Yujin:

Lol. So it was the Portuguese that brought the binis to Lagos? What century was that and where was the so called Oyo empire when the Binis ruled over the aworis?

gregyboy:
[s]Dont mind him he is fooling himself only if he reads, or visited our previous thread were a benin guy Etinosa1234 disgraced TAO11 to stupor on lagos history he will not mention that Portuguese brought benins to lagos by thier ship, that boy is just a "Yoruba must defendi", a must defender for the yoruba but TAO11 has been the best i have seen so far, she can tell him d disgrace she had recieved on her various petty lies in an act to defend her coward tribe called yoruba She had read all benin history just to spite us and even to get points to argue oba of benin came from ife, but she found none, her desperation is not of this world she simply hate the benins soley because benins everytime laid claim to lagos her hometown, from there she developed hatred to spite we edos, but it has consumed her so much that she had read all our history back to back and found nothing[/s]

OmoOlofin:
According to the weak Edo slave above:

However, Oba Ovoranmwen wasn't born until the year 1857, and he didn't become Oba until the year 1888.

But miraculously, he had been chatting with a certain bRiTiSh CoMmAnDeR since the year 1820. Is God not wonderful??

[I have a screenshot already in case you're thinking of editing your comment]

cc: Trinitykey, Yujin

MetaPhysical:


Call the police...this guy is high!

TAO11:

cc: Yujin

Gayboy, your so-called "our previous thread" is this same thread.

Notice how your coward slave, Etinosa was rubbished and caused to run for dear life:

https://www.nairaland.com/5846195/benins-owners-ogboni-confraternity-olokun/22#90642651

gregyboy:
[s]You not even ashamed you will rather sun your dirty linen in the open to avoid a bigger mess, He flawed you am not saying just to spite you but he did you had to result to a Yoruba article and held on to it like your bf dick[/s]

TAO11:

https://www.nairaland.com/5846195/benins-owners-ogboni-confraternity-olokun/22#90642651

gregyboy:
[s]TAO11 TAO12 give up you have lost it, i can read through you, you better stop feeding the hate, bro we conquered your ancestors and the oba was not of a Yoruba offshoot, i see how you have to carry all yorubas as brothers in your comment to gain support bro give up, and tell d truth if i was you i quietly find a new hobby. If you find a new hobby, we can both agree on that new interests but for this you have lost it.Maybe nextlife yorubas will conquer benins and sell them as slaves but not in this life bro.[/s]

gregyboy:
[s]So what changed, since u corrected the error, If it was oba ovaramen cant u use your head and accord it to the correct one, ..... You want to force our oba to be of yoruba ancestory to make up for your coward ancestor... Lol in so doing you have lost yourself, while i particpate in various thread politics, romance, culture, you only participate in culture and restricted your self to that pertaining to benin.... You have consumed yourself with self benin hate i decide to write ovaramen in that statement because it was all a bait to fish you out, to talk instead of giving strokes.After am done with you on nairaland you will have nothing to leave for than to only commit suicide cowardly like your ancestors awolowo and Afonja[/s]

gregyboy:


Mugu show mw how our oba is of benin ancestory i made that statement that way to fish yoyr runaway sister



Show me if there was benin-ife connection like me pour all my evidence here to disgrace you and your people


If you dare me, i will create a series thread every week with evidence to disgrace you and the entire yoruba for lying our king is yoruba

Eweka made those controversial statements for diplomatic purposes it has no historical bases


Please don't push me

“the Benin people ... are treated as slaves by the king, the title of king's slave being considered an honour." ... the mass of the people were practically slaves to the king, and those who were not to the king were so to their chiefs."

MetaPhysical:


This explains why EDO even in adulthood, male and female, must first get the pleasure and permission of palace before they can wear clothe and cover body. They do not own themselves. They are not freeborn.