[size=14pt]Cuba's Fidel Castro hails 'Egyptian Revolution'[/size]
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/americas/02/14/cuba.egypt/?hpt=T2

Havana, Cuba (CNN) -- Former Cuban President Fidel Castro threw his support behind Egyptian protesters Monday, hailing the "defeat of the United States' principal ally in the bosom of Arab countries."
In a newspaper column called "The Revolutionary Rebellion in Egypt", Castro accused Washington of looking the other way while Hosni Mubarak pillaged his own people.

"We support the people of Egypt and their brave fight for political rights and social justice," he wrote.
Castro was in power for nearly five decades after his own revolution defeated Cuban dictator Fulgencio Batista in 1959. He was forced to hand power to his younger brother Raul Castro in 2006 when he fell ill.
Cuban dissidents have also allied themselves with Egypt's young protesters, saying they too should try to use social media more to organize protests against the government.

On the day of Mubarak's fall, prominent Cuban blogger Yoani Sanchez announced via Twitter, "Right now I feel like I am in Cairo. I shout and celebrate just like them," she wrote. "I call all my friends to tell them: there is one less dictator."

Kobojunkie:

In a newspaper column called "The Revolutionary Rebellion in Egypt", Castro accused Washington of looking the other way while Hosni Mubarak pillaged his own people.

Well, Castro is 100% right on that.

More interesting to me in all this is the fact that world-class tyrants and dictators and human rights abusers such as Castro and Dinner-jacket who themselves have squashed and severely punished similar movements in their own countries, all coming forward to "praise" the revolution in Egypt . . . hmmmm

Band wagon effect.

JeSoul:

Well, Castro is 100% right on that.

More interesting to me in all this is the fact that world-class tyrants and dictators and human rights abusers such as Castro and Dinner-jacket who themselves have squashed and severely punished similar movements in their own countries, all coming forward to "praise" the revolution in Egypt . . . hmmmm

Castro is definitely not a tyrant, dictator or human rights abuser - he liberated his country from a US supported tyrant and dictator known as Batista who allowed the mafia to run gambling and prostitution rackets all over Cuba.  Castro got rid of all of these parasistes who were destroying Cuba and succeeded in alleviating poverty and  exploitation of his people at the hands of Batista and the US govt.

Under the Batista regime US multinationals were allowed to take over 90% of the land and use it to grow sugar   the Cuban people were not allowed to own land and many were forced to work on the US owned sugar plantations for a pittance.

Before Castro took over black cubans faced terrible racial discrimination and many could not afford to get an education, the few who did, could not get jobs as they were condemned to a life of second class citizenship in their own country.  Castro overhauled all of that and provided free education for all Cubans irrespective of race up to university level, Castro also introduced access to free medical care to all of its citizens, a feat not even acheived by the US, a world super power!! 

Castro also was responsible for helping many african countries fight to liberate themselves from colonial and aparthied rule.  He sent 300, 000  troops to Angola to help the MPLA who were fighting to rid themselves from Portuguese colonial rule while the US govt which claims to be defenders of democracy funded and assisted the UNITA the opposition group which was backed and funded by the racist apartheid regime of south africa!!!
Needless to say Castro's Cuban troops DEFEATED and humiliated UNITA.

Castro  has been behind the struggle of every african nation to rid itself of white domination and exploitation, Cuba sent medical doctors and various other professionals to various african countries to assist in treating the sick and wounded during various liberation struggles (Congo, Angola, South Africa)

If anything Castro is an inspirational figure and a symbol of great courage, selflessness and the triumph of good over evil.

@ Cap28.

No mind these one-dimensional figures like Je Soul. They have not been exposed to a kaleidoscope of human knowledge.

A single American company used to own half of Cuba, Guatemala, Honduras etc before brave men like Fidel, Raul and Guevara launched their attack from the Sierra Maestra mountainous jungle, having spent several months in Mexico preparing to take back their land from the gringos. Guevara was a simple medical student traversing Latin America on a gap year when he bumped into Fidel in Mexico. Fidel himself was a charismatic youth leader who had already been imprisoned by Batista.

Fidel never intended to go toward communism. Raul and Che had been preaching Marxist values to him in the jungle but he had refused to toe that path. However when he was welcomed into Havana by the people of Cuba, he sought to redress some of these injustices such as the mortgaging of Cuba to very few American interests. It was the antagonism of America that pushed Fidel into Krushchev's arms, as Cuba could not stand the threats from Uncle Sam and needed a big backer to protect themselves.

As for your statement that Fidel abolished the heinous racism in Cuban society, it behoves featherheads like Je Soul to take note of the truth you have spoken. There is no El Negro alive in Cuba today who was alive before 1955 that would wish for a return to the Batista days.

Viva la Revolucion!!

^^^^^^

very well put Ibime, knowledge as they say is power.

I like the way you summarised Castro's rise to power.

I am totally in awe of Castro as he made enormous sacrifices for his people.

The only people who hate him are the criminal cabal who run the US govt and members of the corrupt Cuban ruling class who were forced to flee Cuba when their benefactor - Batista was overthrown in 1959.   These shameless traitors all fled to Miami and under the instruction and guidance of the US govt began hatching plans to murder Castro, fortunately for Castro most of these plans were foiled by Cuban intelligence operatives.

Its on record that the Cuban intelligence uncovered a total of 638 known plots to murder Fidel Castro since 1962 all with the backing of the CIA !!!!

Just to go back to what you said earlier about the fruit company that used to own half of Cuba - i beleive the name of the company was United Fruit,   - its now known as Chiquita,  this company also owned 85% of the land in Guatemala which it used to grow bananas, the former president of Guatemala a guy by the name of Arbenz - another left wing intellectual tried to redistribute the land , and give it back to the people - unfortunately, he was toppled by the CIA and replaced with a dictator.

I agree with you about Castro's decision to toe the communist route, i beleive he did not start out with the intention of becoming a communist, he merely wanted right past wrongs and end the poverty, misery and exploitation imposed on his people by the elite and the US govt , but he was forced to run to Russia because of the imminent threat of invasion from america.

If russia had not placed missiles in  Cuba, the US would have invaded the country and Cuba would have ended up like Haiti, Grenada, Guatemala, Chile and all those other latin american countries now being run by US backed dictators.

I therefore think that the placing of missiles in cuba was a very good tactic and this is why i am in support of nations having access to nuclear weapons as they can be used as an effective tool for negotiation and non aggression treaties.

Notice how the US govt had no option than to enter into a non aggression treaty with Cuba as soon as they realised that there might be a retaliatory attack against them from the  soviet union?

The US govt is a criminal organisation with no moral compass.

Yes, the United Fruit company is the one. That company spawned a lot of revolutions including the Guatemalan revolution in which Che Guevara was caught up in whilst visiting Guatemala on a previous gap year. That was the first time Che Guevaras name was tagged by the CIA, and the moment they started following him.

Lets not forget the African titan Julius Nyerere who housed and fed Guevara in Tanzania whilst Guevara was waiting to cross the Taganyika into Zaire to do battle with Mobutu's forces.

Some peeps such as Je Soul have been fed only one source of information their whole life, thats why they always reason within the confines of the limited picture. 

Whilst we should accept valid criticisms of Fidel, one must always bear in mind that the American alternative to Fidel (Batista) is/was worse than Fidel.

JeSoul:

Well, Castro is 100% right on that.

More interesting to me in all this is the fact that world-class tyrants and dictators and human rights abusers such as Castro and Dinner-jacket who themselves have squashed and severely punished similar movements in their own countries, all coming forward to "praise" the revolution in Egypt . . . hmmmm

I have to agree with Cap28 and Ibime on this. But I can understand why some would see Castro as a tyrant and a dictator. If a man comes in and punishes me heavily for colluding with foreigners to the detriment of my brothers and enriching myself in the process, I too would see him as a tyrant. Castro has been fair to his people and dealt with Batista's sympathisers.

My only criticism of him (Castro) is that he didn't implement state capitalist policies similar to those started by Deng Xiaoping in China. The Cubans would have been better for it as the Chinese are seeing increases in their standard of living. But that is another argument entirely.

cap28:

Castro is definitely not a tyrant, dictator or human rights abuser - he liberated his country from a US supported tyrant and dictator known as Batista who allowed the mafia to run gambling and prostitution rackets all over Cuba.  Castro got rid of all of these parasistes who were destroying Cuba and succeeded in alleviating poverty and  exploitation of his people at the hands of Batista and the US govt.

Under the Batista regime US multinationals were allowed to take over 90% of the land and use it to grow sugar   the Cuban people were not allowed to own land and many were forced to work on the US owned sugar plantations for a pittance.

Before Castro took over black cubans faced terrible racial discrimination and many could not afford to get an education, the few who did, could not get jobs as they were condemned to a life of second class citizenship in their own country.  Castro overhauled all of that and provided free education for all Cubans irrespective of race up to university level, Castro also introduced access to free medical care to all of its citizens, a feat not even acheived by the US, a world super power!! 

Castro also was responsible for helping many african countries fight to liberate themselves from colonial and aparthied rule.  He sent 300, 000  troops to Angola to help the MPLA who were fighting to rid themselves from Portuguese colonial rule while the US govt which claims to be defenders of democracy funded and assisted the UNITA the opposition group which was backed and funded by the racist apartheid regime of south africa!!!
Needless to say Castro's Cuban troops DEFEATED and humiliated UNITA.

Castro  has been behind the struggle of every african nation to rid itself of white domination and exploitation, Cuba sent medical doctors and various other professionals to various african countries to assist in treating the sick and wounded during various liberation struggles (Congo, Angola, South Africa)

If anything Castro is an inspirational figure and a symbol of great courage, selflessness and the triumph of good over evil.

With all this chatter you have not said much.

Castro is an angel.

Coming from someone who argued with me for 2 pages that Abacha is hero . . .

The only comment I have is that anti-west bias is preventing you from seeing and acknowleding the obvious. Has Castro done some good? yes. Did Hitler self even do some good? yes as well. But one is only a short click away from google . . . countless sources both Cuban and international are all crying foul at Castro. Cubans themselves from the saftey of foreign soil are also crying foul. But hey, if he's a hero to you, whom am I to convince you otherwise? to each his own.

Katsumoto, how body now?
'Tyrant' and 'dictator' are not even the primary descriptors I was using for Castro in particular, but human rights abuser, he scores more than a passing grade.

JeSoul:


Katsumoto, how body now?
'Tyrant' and 'dictator' are not even the primary descriptors I was using for Castro in particular, but human rights abuser, he scores more than a passing grade.

Body dey kampe; how yours?

Thieves, state looters and their collaborators who deny millions of citizens access to basic amenities do not deserve to have human rights protected. Many people all over the world die daily because rulers can't be bothered to provide amenities. Why should we care about their human rights?

Katsumoto:

Body dey kampe; how yours?

Thieves, state looters and their collaborators who deny millions of citizens access to basic amenities do not deserve to have human rights protected. Many people all over the world die daily because rulers can't be bothered to provide amenities. Why should we care about their human rights?

  Oga I dey jare.

You're kidding right? Non-feasance is very different from malfeasance my friend. Are you saying why should we not  be concerned about human rights if basic amenities are not available? Please correct me if I'm misquoting you.

---

@topic,
This just yesterday, Obama made comments about Cuba and the Castro(s) regime:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110223/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/cb_cuba_dissidents

Obama denounces Cuba's treatment of dissidents
HAVANA – U.S. President Barack Obama denounced the Cuban government Wednesday for harassing the mother of a political prisoner who died after a long hunger strike, and said her treatment and the detention of other dissidents stood as evidence of the island's poor human rights record.

. . .

A leading Cuban human rights leader told The Associated Press that at least 46 opposition activists had been detained across the island Wednesday, including another well-known hunger striker, Guillermo Farinas. Many of those detained were quickly released, but Farinas remained in custody late Wednesday afternoon.

Obama said Zapata's "selfless and tragic death" had "galvanized the world's attention to the ongoing mistreatment of those unjustly held by Cuban authorities."

. . .

Obama's criticism followed similar sentiments by Amnesty International denouncing Cuba for its treatment of Zapata's mother, Reina Luisa Tamayo, who was detained for about 12 hours last week in her hometown of Banes, in eastern Cuba.

But no, only on NL, Castro is an 'inspirational figure' and a 'hero'. I guess until the end of his deadly staff touches close to home, one is entitled whatever no-be-my-papa's-business view they want. Next we'll soon hear Ghaddafi too is a 'courageous' and 'legendary' and 'inspirational' figure.

JeSoul:

  Oga I dey jare.

You're kidding right? Non-feasance is very different from malfeasance my friend. Are you saying why should we not  be concerned about human rights if basic amenities are not available? Please correct me if I'm misquoting you.

Many people die on the roads in Nigeria because the government can't be bothered to fix roads. Many die due to inadequate health infrastructure. Yes I do not care about the human rights of rulers who are directly and indirectly responsible for the death of citizens. That is different from the human rights abuse of human rights and civil liberties campaigners.

JeSoul:


With all this chatter you have not said much.

Castro is an angel.

Coming from someone who argued with me for 2 pages that Abacha is hero . . .

I was going to ignore your underhanded attempt to take my words out of context in the post about Abacha but i thought it best to put you straight - first of all when quoting people always refer to the context in which those words were made - Did i start off the topic declaring Abacha a hero or did i say that Abacha was  a hero in refusing to give in to the IMF's demand that he take on crippling loans with draconian repayment conditionalities attached to them?

Please refer back to that topic and you will find that the discussion was about how Abacha refused to go along with the well known scam perpetrated by international financial institutions in which foreign countries are coerced into borrowing more money than they need in order to enrich the donor nation (the united states) whilst simultaneously leaving the recipient nation and its people with the crippling prospect of picking up the tab which continues to grow larger and larger each year because of the never ending interest repayments.  

Please can you stop misquoting me and taking my words out of context.

With regard to your comments about Castro - his achievements and assistance to all oppressed people the world over speak for themselves and there is nothing you can do to change who he is and what he represents.

It is your prerogative to educate yourself about what is really going on in the world or remain in the dark and accept the lies, distortions, ommissions and half truths fed to you courtesy of the western corporate media, i refuse to allow my mind to be hijacked by people with a hidden agenda.

America that you think is the bastion of democracy is a country that refused to allow people who look like you the right to vote, eat in the same restaurant ,use the same restroom, attend the same schools and sit down on a seat in a bus beside a white person UNTIL 1968 !!!!!!

To date all people of african descent in america suffer higher unemployment, poorer quality healthcare,education and housing than their white counterparts - so my advice to you is direct some of that hypocritical outrage towards the united states and stop demonising a man and a nation whose history you know very little about.

Katsumoto:

Many people die on the roads in Nigeria because the government can't be bothered to fix roads. Many die due to inadequate health infrastructure. Yes I do not care about the human rights of rulers who are directly and indirectly responsible for the death of citizens. That is different from the human rights abuse of human rights and civil liberties campaigners.

Okay, understood. How does this exculpate Castro from his crimes? unless you're saying he has committed none other than non-feasance. In which case I will simply say 'Godbless'.

---

cap28:

I was going to ignore your underhanded attempt to take my words out of context in the post about Abacha but i thought it best to put you straight - first of all when quoting people always refer to the context in which those words were made - Did i start off the topic declaring Abacha a hero or did i say that Abacha was  a hero in refusing to give in to the IMF's demand that he take on crippling loans with draconian repayment conditionalities attached to them?

Please refer back to that topic and you will find that the discussion was about how Abacha refused to go along with the well known scam perpetrated by international financial institutions in which foreign countries are coerced into borrowing more money than they need in order to enrich the donor nation (the united states) whilst simultaneously leaving the recipient nation and its people with the crippling prospect of picking up the tab which continues to grow larger and larger each year because of the never ending interest repayments. 

Please can you stop misquoting me and taking my words out of context.

  Cap, you're right. I apologize if my comment came off as trying to misrepresent you as that was certainly not my intent. No vex ehn. Here's a piece of chocolate cake to appease you . . .

With regard to your comments about Castro - his achievements and assistance to all oppressed people the world over speak for themselves and there is nothing you can do to change who he is and what he represents.

It is your prerogative to educate yourself about what is really going on in the world or remain in the dark and accept the lies, distortions, ommissions and half truths fed to you courtesy of the western corporate media, i refuse to allow my mind to be hijacked by people with a hidden agenda.

America that you think is the bastion of democracy is a country that refused to allow people who look like you the right to vote, eat in the same restaurant ,use the same restroom, attend the same schools and sit down on a seat in a bus beside a white person UNTIL 1968 !!!!!!

To date all people of african descent in america suffer higher unemployment, poorer quality healthcare,education and housing than their white counterparts - so my advice to you is direct some of that hypocritical outrage towards the united states and stop demonising a man and a nation whose history you know very little about.

You make me smile Cap. You already know I like you and have high regard for your knowledge . . . but your anti-west bias is really your greatest handicapp.

America is the greatest country on earth. Lemme say that again. America is the greatest country on earth.

For all her faults and shortcomings, for all her sins and atrocities, for her terrible history and dark beginings . . . please name one country on the face of the planet where I as a black woman can be afforded the opportunities and rights that I presently have and to the high degree that I have them. Please name just one country. Biko. Thank you in advance.

Should I go to africa? where there is no 'racism' but tribalism that is just as fierce and deadly reigns supreme? where I can become chief's 3rd wife in order to survive? or one of the kokolettes hustling their bodies and self-esteem just to be able to survive? or hope if my husband dies in-laws will not accuse me of killing him and therefore take all my property and banish me and my children out of our own house? or have to sleep with my professor in order to pass the course? or with my boss in order to stay employed? tell me Cap? where if I am robbed or rayped the best I can hope is karma or celestial justice in another life? or where if I am sick, the likeliest course of action is to solicit prayers at a cost from the local crooked pastor? or if I am shot and almost killed by theives (just like my friend was) no one will be held accountable?   

Like I said, America is not perfect - never has been, and never will be. But by God and all His angels . . . America is by far better than any other 'alternative' out there. And I love Nigeria die, but fact is fact. And if all this makes me brainwashed, then may brainwashing always be my portion.

and like I said, if Castro is a hero to you, then Godbless you. I can think of a significant number of countries and peoples that drastically disagree with that estimation. One need look only as far as google to see just how many . . .

Je soul, nothing spoil. I know you don't mean any harm.

When i criticise america i direct my crticisms towards the US govt but lets agree to disagree about america.

Thanx for the cake though it was delicious

Obama is a punk.

He couldn't speak against the hard targets of Mubaraks regime, yet he's ranting and raving about Fidel who is a soft target.

If Obama no dey careful, Fidel's sponsor Hugo Chavez fit turn off the pipeline to teach him to guard his utterances.

Obama should first tell us about human rights violations in US-supported Pinochet's Chile, Mobutu's Zaire, Mubarak's Egypt etc, not to forget the continued violation of the Kurdish in US ally Turkey. Then we would take all his rantings about Fidel seriously!!!

I do agree that most left wing revolutionaries are too paranoid about counter-revolution and always attack their opponents with the most repressive arms of the military state. Animal Farm and Stalin's famous purges come to mind, not forgetting the murder of Trotsky in Mexico. Likewise Che Guevara's trial and execution of many counter-revolutionaries.

JeSoul is a mainstreamer championing conservative American ideals. My name is MyJoe and I approve this message. 

Howdy, JeSoul?

JeSoul:

America is the greatest country on earth. Lemme say that again. America is the greatest country on earth.

For all her faults and shortcomings, for all her sins and atrocities, for her terrible history and dark beginings . . . please name one country on the face of the planet where I as a black woman can be afforded the opportunities and rights that I presently have and to the high degree that I have them. Please name just one country. Biko. Thank you in advance.

Should I go to africa? where there is no 'racism' but tribalism that is just as fierce and deadly reigns supreme? where I can become chief's 3rd wife in order to survive? or one of the kokolettes hustling their bodies and self-esteem just to be able to survive? or hope if my husband dies in-laws will not accuse me of killing him and therefore take all my property and banish me and my children out of our own house? or have to sleep with my professor in order to pass the course? or with my boss in order to stay employed? tell me Cap? where if I am robbed or rayped the best I can hope is karma or celestial justice in another life? or where if I am sick, the likeliest course of action is to solicit prayers at a cost from the local crooked pastor? or if I am shot and almost killed by theives (just like my friend was) no one will be held accountable?   

Like I said, America is not perfect - never has been, and never will be. But by God and all His angels . . . America is by far better than any other 'alternative' out there. And I love Nigeria die, but fact is fact. And if all this makes me brainwashed, then may brainwashing always be my portion.

and like I said, if Castro is a hero to you, then Godbless you. I can think of a significant number of countries and peoples that drastically disagree with that estimation. One need look only as far as google to see just how many . . .

I always feel a bit at a loss when Americans make this sort of claim in bold. I mean, an American friend of mine once kept going on and on about freedom and I was forced to launch into facts and figures proving there is actually far more “freedom” in France than the US.

All things considered, the US is the greatest nation on earth. But, of course, there is no position you or any black occupies in the US that they can’t in the UK or France. The US has had a black woman as foreign minister, the UK, with much smaller percentage of blacks has had an international development minister. But these ideas are actively promoted in the US and people tend to believe and repeat them without, it seems, matching them with present day or even historical realities. Personally I tend to bracket them with knee-jerk anti-Americanism, another fad I have little patience for.

I don't agree with your typification of Africa versus America, but maybe some other time I will say something about that.

cap28:

Je soul, nothing spoil. I know you don't mean any harm.

When i criticise america i direct my crticisms towards the US govt but lets agree to disagree about america.

Thanx for the cake though it was delicious

  You're more than welcome my brother I'm glad you enjoyed it.

I have questions for you . . . political, but I moreso on the philosophical slant of things. I'll be on one of your other 'conspiracy' threads

Ibime:

Obama is a punk.

Dude, don't insult my president jare   

He couldn't speak against the hard targets of Mubaraks regime, yet he's ranting and raving about Fidel who is a soft target.

If Obama no dey careful, Fidel's sponsor Hugo Chavez fit turn off the pipeline to teach him to guard his utterances.

Obama should first tell us about human rights violations in US-supported Pinochet's Chile, Mobutu's Zaire, Mubarak's Egypt etc, not to forget the continued violation of the Kurdish in US ally Turkey. Then we would take all his rantings about Fidel seriously!!!

I do agree that most left wing revolutionaries are too paranoid about counter-revolution and always attack their opponents with the most repressive arms of the military state. Animal Farm and Stalin's famous purges come to mind, not forgetting the murder of Trotsky in Mexico. Likewise Che Guevara's trial and execution of many counter-revolutionaries.

100% agree with you there, and is the 'problem' as a whole with international politics . . .

   what is in a country's national interest or security takes precedence or priority over ideology or moral concerns or 'the right thing to do'. We support dictators if its in our best interest and oppose them when it isn't. Usually, the relationship is symbiotic anyways . . . both sides get something out of the relationship. That is an unfortunate reality and I daresay most of us would do the exact same thing if we were in Obama's shoes. Obama's problem is that he sold himself as a 'champion' of change and a departure from the norm (which politician doesn't self?) and now that it's time to walk the walk he's finding out the world doesn't really 'work' that way.

MyJoe:

JeSoul is a mainstreamer championing conservative American ideals. My name is MyJoe and I approve this message. 

Howdy, JeSoul?

MyJoe! my it has been a long time . I am well sir. How are you doing? Hows the family? I hope all has been sunshine and seabreeze .

Lol@ 'mainstreamer'. Is that what I sound like?  

I always feel a bit at a loss when Americans make this sort of claim in bold. I mean, an American friend of mine once kept going on and on about freedom and I was forced to launch into facts and figures proving there is actually far more “freedom” in France than the US.

All things considered, the US is the greatest nation on earth. But, of course, there is no position you or any black occupies in the US that they can’t in the UK or France. The US has had a black woman as foreign minister, the UK, with much smaller percentage of blacks has had an international development minister. But these ideas are actively promoted in the US and people tend to believe and repeat them without, it seems, matching them with present day or even historical realities. Personally I tend to bracket them with knee-jerk anti-Americanism, another fad I have little patience for.

This is true. I was opportuned to do some vast travelling recently and France was the only country I could see myself living in joyfully besides America . . . the UK didn't really appeal to me . . . no 'soul' imo, if you know what I mean. And for supposed 'owners' of the English language, you cannot hear a dam thing they say when they speak 

Okay being serious . . .

You're right the overall tone of my post could be accused of being 'knee-jerk'. I only hope that in my brashness, the real point I was trying to make was not lost. That America, almost always (and certainly for me) is the best place for a black woman to be.

I don't agree with your typification of Africa versus America, but maybe some other time I will say something about that.

lol. Perhaps. Show me an African woman, and 9.9 out of 10 have faced at least one of the scenarios I mentioned. As much as I love Africa, God, our shortcomings in so many departments of life are so severe. Perhaps my 'typification-ing' was harsh . . . but honestly, I think it is well earned and deserved. And as always, I'm open to being educated on anything I might be wrong on.

Cheers my sir

JeSoul:


Lol@ 'mainstreamer'. Is that what I sound like?  
This is true. I was opportuned to do some vast travelling recently and France was the only country I could see myself living in joyfully besides America . . . the UK didn't really appeal to me . . . no 'soul' imo, if you know what I mean. And for supposed 'owners' of the English language, you cannot hear a dam thing they say when they speak 

Did you visit Italy and Spain as well? Since you mentioned France, I assume we should ignore discrimination that a coloured person may face in those countries.

Katsumoto:

Did you visit Italy and Spain as well? Since you mentioned France, I assume we should ignore discrimination that a coloured person may face in those countries.

Not sure what you mean Katsumoto. I'm joining MyJoe in praising both the UK and France as the only other places that can rival the freedoms and opportunities black people have and enjoy in America.

And yes, Italy was one of my stops (didn't make spain though, next time). And yes, I heard from the mouth of both white and black about how terrible racism is there. Those folks are very honest even when it casts a negative light on them, something I very much liked.

JeSoul:

  Not sure what you mean Katsumoto. I'm joining MyJoe in praising both the UK and France as the only other places that can rival the freedoms and opportunities black people have and enjoy in America.

And yes, Italy was one of my stops (didn't make Spain though, next time). And yes, I heard from the mouth of both white and black about how terrible racism is there. Those folks are very honest even when it casts a negative light on them, something I very much liked.

I get your point now. When you used the word soul, I assumed you meant environment, aesthetics, language, Food, etc. When compared with other European countries, the UK is a shining example in terms of opportunities for the coloured person but it can't rival the US. France is not too different from the others (Italy, Germany, Spain). But you have to understand the culture in those places to really understand whats going on. France and Italy are probably one of the most openly racist countries in Europe.

I like France for the scenery, language, quality of life, small villages, etc. The same for Italy and Spain. All three are better than the UK in terms of quality of life. If I had a ton of cash and thick skin, ill live in the South of France or Barcelona. If I want job opportunities, then ill live in the UK.

JeSoul:

MyJoe! my it has been a long time . I am well sir. How are you doing? Hows the family? I hope all has been sunshine and seabreeze .

Everyone's doing great. Thanks aplenty!

JeSoul:
Lol@ 'mainstreamer'. Is that what I sound like?  
This is true. I was opportuned to do some vast travelling recently and France was the only country I could see myself living in joyfully besides America . . . the UK didn't really appeal to me . . . no 'soul' imo, if you know what I mean. And for supposed 'owners' of the English language, you cannot hear a dam thing they say when they speak 

Lol. Seems you jammed 'em Cockney speaking types. The English, perhaps once you leave a small part of Southern England, have no common language. Higgins said something similar in the movie My Fair Lady 50 years ago and it’s still true today. Once an Englishman opens his mouth you can tell his background. Queens English is actually refreshing to the ear and I’d pick it over any other variety of spoken English any day, but it seems only when spoken by those of them from the “public school” tradition. Most cockney leave you close to tears the way Australian English does.

JeSoul:
Okay being serious . . .

You're right the overall tone of my post could be accused of being 'knee-jerk'. I only hope that in my brashness, the real point I was trying to make was not lost. That America, almost always (and certainly for me) is the best place for a black woman to be.
lol. Perhaps. Show me an African woman, and 9.9 out of 10 have faced at least one of the scenarios I mentioned. As much as I love Africa, God, our shortcomings in so many departments of life are so severe. Perhaps my 'typification-ing' was harsh . . . but honestly, I think it is well earned and deserved. And as always, I'm open to being educated on anything I might be wrong on.

Cheers my sir

I don’t think what you said was knee-jerk. I meant that for the anti-American conspiracy theorists.

I disagree with bolded. Let's look at the scenarios.

JeSoul:

Should I go to africa? where there is no 'racism' but tribalism that is just as fierce and deadly reigns supreme?

True. Tribalism is indeed as bad as racism.

JeSoul:
where I can become chief's 3rd wife in order to survive?

Since only a small minority of women are in pologamous marriages these days, this is a big exaggeration. No, you don’t have to be a third wife to survive. None of my many female relatives had to. There are kept women in the US, too. The levels of poverty in Nigeria are much higher than those of the US, that means fewer opportunities, and that, perhaps, means the percentages are higher - not that I am even sure of that. But things are changing. There departments of universities you go to nowadays and you wonder if there’s some maiden dance going on – women are getting educated and liberated.

JeSoul:
or one of the kokolettes hustling their bodies and self-esteem just to be able to survive?

There are also many women everywhere who have to take to “artistoism” or “kokoletism” to survive. There was an American woman who auctioned her virginity on e-Bay a couple of years or so ago, just so she could raise money to see herself through college. There are probably just more women involved in Nigeria.

JeSoul:
or hope if my husband dies in-laws will not accuse me of killing him and therefore take all my property and banish me and my children out of our own house?

I would not bother too much about this. Nigerians, especially those of means, write wills nowadays. Even if you remove wills, such traditions apply, in practical terms, to a small minority of Nigerians.

JeSoul:
or have to sleep with my professor in order to pass the course?

I will agree with you this is fairly rampant - but still, two quick points (i) It has been reported in the US (ii) Most girls don't have do this to pass, only a small minority of them do. Besides several universities have now come up with reliable means of checking the problem.

JeSoul:
or with my boss in order to stay employed?

Maybe I should just skip this one since it's impossible to guess its extent. But just a few points (i) I know women working in Nigeria who don't have to do this. (ii) It's often not clear cut if it's the lady looking for bosses to sleep with because of a belief (false as often as it's true) that it will help her advance or the boss hounding ladies to sleep with him to keep their jobs. I think it comes down to the mentality of cutting corners to get ahead.

JeSoul:
tell me Cap? where if I am robbed or rayped the best I can hope is karma or celestial justice in another life?

True. While there is crime everywhere, and we may have less of it in Nigeria than the US, the official response to it in places like Nigeria is indefensible.

JeSoul:
or where if I am sick, the likeliest course of action is to solicit prayers at a cost from the local crooked pastor?

True if the statement is modified to reflect the fact that only certain cases cannot be treated in Nigeria. There are hospitals sufficiently equipped to treat 99% of ailments suffered by Nigerians living in Nigeria. Afterall, there are people who have never travelled abroad who live above 100 in Nigeria. It's the small minority that make the headlines. Although I must quickly add there is no excuse for that small minority. Most people who die of treatable ailments in Nigeria, whether from going to white garment prophet or "tradomedical" doctor, doctor strikes, inability to travel abroad or whatever reason, do so out of ignorance, superstition or poverty. Which just applies to the US or any other country where the poor may die because they have no health insurance.

JeSoul:
Like I said, America is not perfect - never has been, and never will be. But by God and all His angels . . . America is by far better than any other 'alternative' out there. And I love Nigeria die, but fact is fact. And if all this makes me brainwashed, then may brainwashing always be my portion.

I disagree with the bolded. The way I see it, when you leave one clime for another, you exchange one set of problems for another. It is for that reason that there are many people for whom America is not as good as some alternatives out there. To illustrate, Katsumoto said something about being (i) a job seeker (ii) a rich playboy just looking to have fun. These two categories of people have different needs and will the same places from different prisms. One can write a whole book on the advantages of living in Europe over the US, or, yes, Nigeria over the US and vice versa.

_{But if I were a scientist looking to reach my full potentials, I'd probably kill to be in the US!} 

Katsumoto:

I get your point now. When you used the word soul, I assumed you meant environment, aesthetics, language, Food, etc. When compared with other European countries, the UK is a shining example in terms of opportunities for the coloured person but it can't rival the US. France is not too different from the others (Italy, Germany, Spain). But you have to understand the culture in those places to really understand whats going on. France and Italy are probably one of the most openly racist countries in Europe.

Hmm . . . really? France is pretty well known to be a good place for blacks as MyJoe said. And in my experience I was extremely comfortable - racially speaking - while I was there as opposed to other places. There's racism everywhere, but some places are much much better than others.

I like France for the scenery, language, quality of life, small villages, etc. The same for Italy and Spain. All three are better than the UK in terms of quality of life. If I had a ton of cash and thick skin, ill live in the South of France or Barcelona. If I want job opportunities, then ill live in the UK.

lol. If I had a ton of cash, I would 'live' in at least 10 different places

MyJoe:

Everyone's doing great. Thanks aplenty!

  Good to hear that sir.
 

Lol. Seems you jammed 'em Cockney speaking types. The English, perhaps once you leave a small part of Southern England, have no common language. Higgins said something similar in the movie My Fair Lady 50 years ago and it’s still true today. Once an Englishman opens his mouth you can tell his background. Queens English is actually refreshing to the ear and I’d pick it over any other variety of spoken English any day, but it seems only when spoken by those of them from the “public school” tradition. Most cockney leave you close to tears the way Australian English does.

LOL It'd been a long time since I'd been in an english speaking country and was excited to be in the UK so I again participate in communication and conversations . . . but mehn, the variant of 'english' I heard was just  could not understand a single thing. The thing vex me small lol.

I don’t think what you said was knee-jerk. I meant that for the anti-American conspiracy theorists.

I was actually critisizing myself. My response to Cap was while true in principle, may not be in 100% practice. Which is why I will plead the fifth to your comebacks below:

I disagree with bolded. Let's look at the scenarios.
True. Tribalism is indeed as bad as racism.
Since only a small minority of women are in pologamous marriages these days, this is a big exaggeration. No, you don’t have to be a third wife to survive. None of my many female relatives had to. There are kept women in the US, too. The levels of poverty in Nigeria are much higher than those of the US, that means fewer opportunities, and that, perhaps, means the percentages are higher - not that I am even sure of that. But things are changing. There departments of universities you go to nowadays and you wonder if there’s some maiden dance going on – women are getting educated and liberated.
There are also many women everywhere who have to take to “artistoism” or “kokoletism” to survive. There was an American woman who auctioned her virginity on e-Bay a couple of years or so ago, just so she could raise money to see herself through college. There are probably just more women involved in Nigeria.
I would not bother too much about this. Nigerians, especially those of means, write wills nowadays. Even if you remove wills, such traditions apply, in practical terms, to a small minority of Nigerians.
I will agree with you this is fairly rampant - but still, two quick points (i) It has been reported in the US (ii) Most girls don't have do this to pass, only a small minority of them do. Besides several universities have now come up with reliable means of checking the problem.
Maybe I should just skip this one since it's impossible to guess its extent. But just a few points (i) I know women working in Nigeria who don't have to do this. (ii) It's often not clear cut if it's the lady looking for bosses to sleep with because of a belief (false as often as it's true) that it will help her advance or the boss hounding ladies to sleep with him to keep their jobs. I think it comes down to the mentality of cutting corners to get ahead.
True. While there is crime everywhere, and we may have less of it in Nigeria than the US, the official response to it in places like Nigeria is indefensible.
True if the statement is modified to reflect the fact that only certain cases cannot be treated in Nigeria. There are hospitals sufficiently equipped to treat 99% of ailments suffered by Nigerians living in Nigeria. Afterall, there are people who have never travelled abroad who live above 100 in Nigeria. It's the small minority that make the headlines. Although I must quickly add there is no excuse for that small minority. Most people who die of treatable ailments in Nigeria, whether from going to white garment prophet or "tradomedical" doctor, doctor strikes, inability to travel abroad or whatever reason, do so out of ignorance, superstition or poverty. Which just applies to the US or any other country where the poor may die because they have no health insurance.
I disagree with the bolded. The way I see it, when you leave one clime for another, you exchange one set of problems for another. It is for that reason that there are many people for whom America is not as good as some alternatives out there. To illustrate, Katsumoto said something about being (i) a job seeker (ii) a rich playboy just looking to have fun. These two categories of people have different needs and will the same places from different prisms. One can write a whole book on the advantages of living in Europe over the US, or, yes, Nigeria over the US and vice versa.

  ^Thank you for this . I don't necessarily disagree with much of what you've said. I'm not in a good position to speak to what the current climate is so I appreciate the break-down, thanks, really. On the bolded bit . . . I see what you're saying. But you'll have to agree that the adv/disadv weigh heavily in one direction over the other. See one of my friends who just got back from Naija . . . why won't stories like these continue to scare and annoy the heck outta me?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-170354.2400.html#msg7664163

But if I were a scientist looking to reach my full potentials, I'd probably kill to be in the US!

Haha! I actually hope to be making a graceful exit from corporate science soon. While I remain enchanted with the dream that is science & knowledge & discovery, the reality for the most part presents a sorry disconnect. Which I've noticed over time results in zombi-ism that is driven only by the promise of a weekly paycheck. And I would like to be driven by more than promise of a weekly paycheck .

But ehn . . . if you hear of any labs venturing into Fringe science . . . mehn, I will work for free!

JeSoul:

  ^Thank you for this . I don't necessarily disagree with much of what you've said. I'm not in a good position to speak to what the current climate is so I appreciate the break-down, thanks, really. On the bolded bit . . . I see what you're saying. But you'll have to agree that the adv/disadv weigh heavily in one direction over the other. See one of my friends who just got back from Naija . . . why won't stories like these continue to scare and annoy the heck outta me?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-170354.2400.html#msg7664163

That's one traumatic story! But I guess we have all heard worse. And to comment on bolded, being far away sometimes makes things appear worse than they are. You know there are many folks in Nigeria who think America is all about 15 y/o kids running around with loaded pistols? Now, there are 15 y/o kids who run around with loaded pistols in America, but that's not what America is all about. People wake up and go to school or work in the morning without thinking "I hope I make it back to this this house in one piece without having had my head blown to pieces by 15 year olds." You get my point. Actually violent crime is not what worries me the most about Nigeria. The state of official response is far more worrisome. What is painful about your friend's story is the fact the boys operated for such a long time without the police having been summoned through phone calls. A lot has been done about crime in Lagos, but they're still quite far from there.

JeSoul:
Haha! I actually hope to be making a graceful exit from corporate science soon. While I remain enchanted with the dream that is science & knowledge & discovery, the reality for the most part presents a sorry disconnect. Which I've noticed over time results in zombi-ism that is driven only by the promise of a weekly paycheck. And I would like to be driven by more than promise of a weekly paycheck .

But ehn . . . if you hear of any labs venturing into Fringe science . . . mehn, I will work for free!

The best ones I know are in Nigeria!