ikejiani:

Ok. How did Jesus expect us to spread the gospel. How did Jesus get enough money to spread his gospel during his day. Read Luke 8:2-3 ' and certain women, which has been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called magdalene, out of whom went seven devils, and Joanna the wife of chuza herod's steward, and Susanna, and many others, which ministered unto him of their substance'  so Jesus had givers that supported his ministry financially. The main givers were mentioned and also many others. How did they respond if not that Jesus must have taught them. This were members of Jesus congregation .

Did Jesus ask for money? Did Jesus collect tithe? Did Jesus preach that money is required to spread the gospel? Did Jesus preach that one must donate his money to the 'church' (as a registered entity) to be blessed? 

Learn to make true Christians out of the congregation and you will spread the gospel at little or no cost.

@poster and everyone

Well my take on these issues that have been discussed is that churches in general face a lot criticism because of the multidimensional property of God's word. You guys have to understand that God's word and dimensions are in multiple folds so some ministries preach as pertaining to some dimensions but if you look closely, you will find the bedrock of spirituality at the base. this is not to say that some churches have deviated from the truth and have made godliness a means to gain.
My idea on the prosperity thing is that it comes with the package of spirituality although some ministries have made it the focus.
So lets just pray for them because there is no point talking and posting if we are not doing anything about them on our knees,

ikejiani:

Ok. How did Jesus expect us to spread the gospel. How did Jesus get enough money to spread his gospel during his day. Read Luke 8:2-3 ' and certain women, which has been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called magdalene, out of whom went seven devils, and Joanna the wife of chuza herod's steward, and Susanna, and many others, which ministered unto him of their substance'  so Jesus had givers that supported his ministry financially. The main givers were mentioned and also many others. How did they respond if not that Jesus must have taught them. This were members of Jesus congregation . Jesus was the one who said , give and it shall be given onto you. Another question. Was Abraham the father of faith wealthy. Genesis 13:2' and abram was very rich in cattle, in silver , and in gold' Abraham was Gods friend and he was rich. So God expects us to be righteous and rich just like Abraham. You that talk about holiness. Are you holy. Are you pure and untainted. Are you already holy or are you pursuing holiness. Have you arrived at holiness or are you still pursuing it?

Your post above is a load of jumbled up nonsense.  Incoherent. (maybe suffering has dabarued your sense). It seems that anywhere you see mention of money in the bible you automatically connect it to your prosperity gospel.  I'll just address a couple of the points you made above in bold, cos it will take too long to unravel your confusion.

Jesus has explicitly said how he expects us to spread his gospel in the first great commission.  I'll repeat for you again:

7And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. 8Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. 9Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses, 10Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.

Ministering to him of their substance does not mean contributing money spreading his gospel.  It simply means taking care of him.  After fasting 40 days in the wilderness the angels  ministered unto Jesus too.  That doesn't mean that they gave him money. 

I didn't say that I was holy.  You mentioned holiness in a way that it was obvious you didn't even know what the word meant.  So I simply told you the meaning of the word.

Snowwy:

@Pastor AIO,
It seems there is no use having an objective discussion with you.

1. I said 'that is where you are wrong' because you answered the question yourself 'I can bet you none.'

2. You should refer the question to Alexleo not me since he mentioned the churches. You seem to generalise alot.

3. Don't blame anyone for your 'understanding in only one way'. I gave you three  scriptural backings which you decided to ignore.
    Good you don't fellowship with devils. I think we should check who the devil is amongst them then.

4. The break you took did not seem to help as you are back squabbling again since you refuse to look at things according to the scriptures.

5. The people gave joyfully. Someone obviously started it and others followed suit and that is why the story of Ananias and Saphira came about.
   We give joyfully, I did not need a pastor to preach to me about tithe/giving. I was convinced by the scriptures.

6. It's no fabrication as I am actually in the welfare committee in my church doing good. What good are you doing where you fellowship? Criticising every good work in the body of Christ? I cannot see that 'office' in the bible.

So Pastor AIO, there is no need to squabble, I have tried to have an objective discussion with you (without name calling-which you have been doing on some of your posts) but since you have decided to have a mindset/subjective opinion, then all i can say is that you are entitled to it.
Cheers!

It seems there is no use having an objective discussion with you.

There is no use trying to bamboozle me with mendacity. Thanks to God's grace.

1. I said 'that is where you are wrong' because you answered the question yourself 'I can bet you none.'

Okay, if I am wrong then tell me the one's that celebrate the eucharistic meal. Just one.

2. You should refer the question to Alexleo not me since he mentioned the churches. You seem to generalise alot.

Since it is an Alexleo matter then why did you have to put your rebellious mouth inside?

3. Don't blame anyone for your 'understanding in only one way'. I gave you three scriptural backings which you decided to ignore.
Good you don't fellowship with devils. I think we should check who the devil is amongst them then.

I don't blame anyone for anything. All the scriptures you quoted spoke of one thing. Christians met to share a communal meal. If there is any other thing to be understood from it then you should please explain it to me.
I have already identified a few devils, but I remain vigilant so I am not decieved by any other. They come disguised as angels of light. Some of them, from their names, you would think that they were as pure as the driven Snow, but in they are as dark as coal. They names should be Coally.

4. The break you took did not seem to help as you are back squabbling again since you refuse to look at things according to the scriptures.

so far I am in the spirit. And when the spirit tells me to stop blocking your lies, then I will stop.

5. The people gave joyfully. Someone obviously started it and others followed suit and that is why the story of Ananias and Saphira came about.
We give joyfully, I did not need a pastor to preach to me about tithe/giving. I was convinced by the scriptures.

So what's your point? What scripture convinced you that it is okay to lie to people. To bend God's instructions. This is as the sin of witchcraft.

6. It's no fabrication as I am actually in the welfare committee in my church doing good. What good are you doing where you fellowship? Criticising every good work in the body of Christ? I cannot see that 'office' in the bible.

I have not criticized any good work. I criticize lying, theiving, deceptive practices.

@bayodapo ,
I guess you have given a good summary.

@Pastor AIO,
Name-calling again . I just laugh because it shows you cannot have a civil discussion. All your responses do not do justice to the comments you referred to. Sorry.

I do not have cause to resort to abusing your username to prove my point. 

few words of advise:
- Just make sure the 'spirit' that is leading you is the Holy Spirit and try not to generalise.
- If you take time off criticising and spend more time edifying, it will be far better and do more good. Critics hardly do better than those they criticise most times
- when scriptures are given to prove a point and all you say is 'it is a lie' then you need to check yourself.

I have said you are entitled to your own opinion, why are you hurt?
'Cos all I can see from your post is someone that is pained. If what I have posted, with biblical references, is not enough explanation then it is alright, depend on 'your spirit' to lead you.

alexleo:

@oluite ,
yes there is no church in heaven but before we get to heaven we attend churches here where we fellowship and prepare for heaven. If churches continue with only this prosperity preaching while neglecting holiness which is the number one qualification for heaven it means that many souls will only pass through the church and land in hell at last. There is nothing wrong in  mentioning churches where the message of holiness is being preached in its ffullness Somebody out there who is desirous of such churches will benefit from the info. The truth is that there are many people who hunger and thirst after righteousness but has not been exposed to where they can get it in full. Internet is a place where info is passed. Bless you.

I am a firm believer in holiness but how many churches have you attended before you came up with this list of the churches where holiness are preached in fullness, For any child of God the bible must be your guide.I have a problem with your topic Here are a few churches in Nigeria  that still preach the real message of God one begins to wonder if you have gone round Nigeria and sampled churches and why you feel you can judge what the real message of God is.There is no perfect church,the word of God is perfect and that should be our guide and we as God's children should realise that there is no church in heaven,we will judged according to our works.We should work our salvation with fear and trembling but if this is your intent as you have just explained to me,maybe your topic is misleading then,

These conversations only clarify how deeply Satan has penetrated into the supposed "Church"! And why not? "Church" in the days Christ & His Apostles walked earth was a gathering of like-minded people (who wished to serve God) WHEREVER they met. Today, the term has become synonymous with special acoustically enhanced architectural wonders with air-conditioning, shopping malls, special effects etc. These play host to "audiences" seeking entertainment as often as excuse can be found for such "entertainment sessions" and are called churches. "Blessed" owners of such entertainment centers are those who can convince the most people to visit and give the most. Such are today known as "Men of God" when in the Bible, those known by that appellation were "the scorned of the earth, men whom the world was unworthy of, crucified, of many sorrows, beaten, burnt, sawed in half, tortured etc". Such included Jesus Himself, Peter, Paul, Stephen, Elijah, Jeremiah, Micah, Abraham too, Daniel, David etc. But the Religion and trust these had in God is not enough for today's man and we need to ask - why are you different? Who are you following? Why is your life uncommonly like that of the Pharisees who were the Religious men of those days and were the "big men" too. They had the crowds, the adulation, the respect. They even had power with the politicians of those days just as many of our "mogs" today have the ear of presidents etc whom they eat and drink with (and collect Ghana must go bags from too). Why are you like these men? Whom are you following?

The motive also has changed. While Jesus scorned this life and went as far as saying this world is not His own, His "supposed" followers today (who claim Him rather than the Pharisees their lives testify of) say His Sacrifice has made them owners of this world. Strange, isn't it, when a follower says he is greater than his master. Jesus owns Heaven but his followers who He instructed not to conform to this world, say they own both earth and heaven. Financial profit has become todays motive for a brand of Christianity the Apostles Peter & Paul never knew.

Pastor AIO's comparison of what Jesus wanted and what a "follower" wants today shows all there is to show about these supposed followers of Christ and the difference between them and Jesus Christ. I don't know which Jesus they follow but it is NOT the one who said to make NO provision for gold or silver and that He was not of this world.

@nuclear ,
my dear thanks a lot for hitting the point once again like a few others here.
I pity members of such churches who are being denied of the real word of God that will nuture and prepare their soul for eternity by those prosperity preachers.
Rather than messages such as - where will u spend eternity? . Self denial , living for Jesus , holiness , God's judgment , rapture , consecration , trials and temptation of a christians etc which was preached in those days , they have replaced it with- my enemies must die , swimming in the ocean of riches , living wealthy , breaking financial grounds , speak your dream car into reality , speak your dream house into reality etc. On and on goes the list (somebody can help supply more of these sermon topics ). Now how can the soul be prepared for heaven with this kind of prosperity preaching constituting 95% of what they hear in church? Yet souls are dying in such churches on daily basis just like any other church. One begins to wonder how prepared they were for eternity before death came. Worst still , at the judgement throne none of the pastors that deceived you will come and defend you. Its a journey of you and your alone standing before the almighty God. May God save the world. Amen.

you forgoted to included my church brotherhood of christ also known as OLUMBA OLUMBA

nuclearboy:



These conversations only clarify how deeply Satan has penetrated into the supposed "Church"! And why not? "Church" in the days Christ & His Apostles walked earth was a gathering of like-minded people (who wished to serve God) WHEREVER they met. Today, the term has become synonymous with special acoustically enhanced architectural wonders with air-conditioning, shopping malls, special effects etc. These play host to "audiences" seeking entertainment as often as excuse can be found for such "entertainment sessions" and are called churches. "Blessed" owners of such entertainment centers are those who can convince the most people to visit and give the most. Such are today known as "Men of God" when in the Bible, those known by that appellation were "the scorned of the earth, men whom the world was unworthy of, crucified, of many sorrows, beaten, burnt, sawed in half, tortured etc". Such included Jesus Himself, Peter, Paul, Stephen, Elijah, Jeremiah, Micah, Abraham too, Daniel, David etc. But the Religion and trust these had in God is not enough for today's man and we need to ask - why are you different? Who are you following? Why is your life uncommonly like that of the Pharisees who were the Religious men of those days and were the "big men" too. They had the crowds, the adulation, the respect. They even had power with the politicians of those days just as many of our "mogs" today have the ear of presidents etc whom they eat and drink with (and collect Ghana must go bags from too). Why are you like these men? Whom are you following?

The motive also has changed. While Jesus scorned this life and went as far as saying this world is not His own, His "supposed" followers today (who claim Him rather than the Pharisees their lives testify of) say His Sacrifice has made them owners of this world. Strange, isn't it, when a follower says he is greater than his master. Jesus owns Heaven but his followers who He instructed not to conform to this world, say they own both earth and heaven. Financial profit has become todays motive for a brand of Christianity the Apostles Peter & Paul never knew.

Pastor AIO's comparison of what Jesus wanted and what a "follower" wants today shows all there is to show about these supposed followers of Christ and the difference between them and Jesus Christ. I don't know which Jesus they follow but it is NOT the one who said to make NO provision for gold or silver and that He was not of this world.

Spot on, Nuke! I personally believe these folks keep giving themselves away all the time.  .  . and its easy for them to continue this way undetected by most people as they've already done their homework well with criminally crafted white lies such as the popular "touch not mine anointed".  .  . "judge discern not"

The church should refocus the mind of people on the need to seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness. Right now what they are seeking first is those things that should be added. Let the first thing be first. The bible should not be interpreted according to the whims and caprices of a so called man of God. Sometimes i begin to doubt the purity of their prosperity. Some of them soil their hands to make money and come to the church to testify that  God gave them breakthrough. At the end of the day , hell awaits them if they dont repent and return the ill gotten wealth. God cannot be mocked.

Zikkyy:

I want to believe he is a pastor.



And where is the evidence?



Good question, why really do you think people pay tithe? Do you think it’s because they want to spread the gospel? Or do you think it’s because they want to be the next Bill Gates or Warren Buffet?



It was never Christ’s intention that the gospel be expensive, you made it so. Apostle Paul spent very little to spread the gospel. His letters are read by billions of people today in different part of the world. How do you think he achieved it? Do you think Apostle Paul was collecting cash (fraudulently or legitimately) to spread the gospel you read today? Read the bible to discover his approach, adopt it and you might be able to take it further at very little cost.



So you must hoodwink the congregation into supporting/funding your so called gospel. You don’t preach the gospel, instead you teach people to be greedy, selfish, to lust for material wealth e.t.c. If you preach the true gospel, you won’t need tithe to spread it. You know why? People would give (contribute) in excess of what you collect from tithe to meet any need.



And those that don’t pay tithe are also mightily blessed of God. So what exactly are you saying?

Paul's ministry was still financed by some people. Read Phillipians 4:15-19
....when I departed from Macedonia,no church communicated with me as concerning giving and receiving but ye only.
v 16
for even in Thessalonaica ye sent once and again unto my necessity.
v 17
not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit that may abound to your account
v 18
but I have all, and abound: I am full, having received of Epaphroditus the things which were sent from you, an odour of a sweet smell, a sacrifice acceptable, well pleasing to God
v 19
but my God shall supply all your needs according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.

What I'm saying is simple. Whether we like it or not, money is required for the gospel to grow. Dwelling on the money and not actually preaching the undiluted word of God is bad and should be abhorred. The Bible clearly states that if we fail to bring our tithes to the house of God, then we are robbing Him (Malachi 3 v 8&9). If we obey his commandment, we will be blessed immensely(Malachi 3 v 10).