"Those who are supposed to rule over the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great men exercise authority over them," Jesus said to his disciples, "but it shall not be so among you!" Rather than being lords, he went on to say, disciples are to be servants of one another and the greatest is the one who is servant of all (Mark 10:42-43).

By these words Jesus indicates that an entirely different system of government than that employed by the world should prevail among Christians. Authority among Christians is not derived from the same source as worldly authority, nor is it to be exercised in the same manner. The world's view of authority places men over one another, as in a military command structure, a business executive hierarchy, or a governmental system. This is as it should be. Urged by the competitiveness created by the Fall, and faced with the rebelliousness and ruthlessness of sinful human nature, the world could not function without the use of command structures and executive decision.

But as Jesus carefully stated, ", it shall not be so among you." Disciples are always in a different relationship to one another than worldlings are. Christians are brothers and sisters, children of one Father, and members one of another. Jesus put it clearly in Matthew 23:8, "One is your Master, and all you are brethren."

Throughout twenty centuries the church has virtually ignored these words. Probably with the best of intentions, it has nevertheless repeatedly borrowed in toto the authority structures of the world, changed the names of executives from kings, generals, captains, presidents, governors, secretaries, heads, and chiefs to popes, patriarchs, bishops, stewards, deacons, pastors, and elders, and gone merrily on its way, lording it over the brethren and thus destroying the model of servanthood which our Lord intended. Christians have so totally forgotten Jesus' words that they frequently have set up the world's pattern of government without bothering to change the names, and have operated churches, mission organizations, youth organizations, schools, colleges, and seminaries, all in the name of Jesus Christ, but with presidents, directors, managers, heads and chiefs in no way different from corresponding secular structures.

It is probably too late to do much about altering the many structures that are commonly called "para-church" or "quasichurch" organizations, but certainly Jesus' words must not be ignored in the worship and training functions of the church itself. Somewhere, surely, the words of Jesus, ", it shall not be so among you," must find some effect. Yet in most churches today an unthinking acceptance has been given to the idea that the pastor is the final voice of authority in both doctrine and practice, and that he is the executive officer of the church with respect to administration. But surely, if a pope over the whole church is bad, a pope in every church is no better!

It is clear from the scriptures that the apostles were concerned about the danger of developing ecclesiastical bosses. In 2 Corinthians 1:24 Paul reminds the Corinthians concerning his own apostolic authority, ", not that we lord it over your faith; we work with you for your joy, " In the same letter he describes, with apparent disapproval, how the Corinthians reacted to certain leaders among themselves: [b]"For you bear it if a man makes slaves of you, or preys upon you, or takes advantage of you, or puts on airs, or strikes you in the face" (2 Corinthians 11:20). Peter, too, is careful to warn the elders (and he includes himself among them) not to govern by being ", domineering over those in your charge, but being examples to the flock." [/b]And John speaks strongly against Diotrephes "who likes to put himself first, and takes it on himself to put some out of the church." These first-century examples of church bosses indicate how easily churches then (as in the 20th century) ignored the words of Jesus, "it shall not be so among you."

But if the church is not to imitate the world in this matter, what is it to do? Leadership must certainly be exercised within the church and there must be some form of authority. What is it to be? The question is answered in Jesus' words: "One is your Master." All too long churches have behaved as if Jesus were far away in heaven and he has left it up to church leaders to make their own decisions and run their own affairs. But Jesus himself had assured them in giving the Great Commission, "Lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the age." And in Matthew 18:20 he reiterated, "Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." Clearly this indicates that he is present not only in the church as a whole but in every local church as well. It is Jesus himself, therefore, who is the ultimate authority within every body of Christians, and he is quite prepared to exercise his authority through the instrument he himself has ordained---the eldership.

The task of the elders is not to run the church themselves, but to determine how the Lord in their midst wishes to run his church. Much of this he has already made known through the scriptures, which describe the impartation and exercise of spiritual gifts, the availability of resurrection power, and the responsibility of believers to bear one another's burdens, confess sins to one another, teach, admonish, and reprove one another, and witness to and serve the needs of a hurting world.

In the day-to-day decisions which every church faces, elders are to seek and find the mind of the Lord through an uncoerced unanimity, reached after thorough and Biblically-related discussion. Thus, ultimate authority, even in practical matters, is vested in the Lord and in no one else. This is what the Book of Acts reveals in its description of the initiative actions of the Holy Spirit, who obviously planned and ordered the evangelizing strategy of the early church (Acts 8,13, etc.). The elders sought the mind of the Spirit and, when it was made clear to them, they acted with unity of thought and purpose. ("For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden, " Acts 15:28.) The authority, therefore, was not the authority of men but of God, and it was expressed not through men, acting as individuals, but through the collective, united agreement of men whom the Spirit had led to eldership (Acts (20:28).

The point is: no one man is the sole expression of the mind of the Spirit: no individual has authority from God to direct the affairs of the church. A plurality of elders is necessary as a safeguard to the all-too-human tendency to play God over other people. Even then, the authority exercised is not one of domination and arbitrary decree over anyone. The ability of a servant to influence anyone else does not lie in ordering someone around but by obtaining their voluntary consent. This is the nature of all authority among Christians, even that of the Lord himself! He does not force our obedience, but obtains it by love, expressed either in circumstantial discipline or by awakening gratitude through the meeting of our desperate needs.

The true authority of elders and other leaders in the church, then, is that of respect, excited by their own loving and godly example. This is the force of two verses which are often cited by those who claim a unique authority of pastors over church members. The first is found in 1 Thessalonians 5:12,13, "But we beseech you, brethren, to respect those who labor among you, and are over you in the Lord and admonish you, and to esteem them very highly in love because of their work." The key phrase is "and are over you in the Lord"; the Greek word in question is prohistamenous. Though this is translated "over you" in both the Revised Standard and King James versions, the word itself contains no implication of being over another. The New English Bible more properly renders it, ", and in the Lord's fellowship are your leaders and counselors." The thought in the word is that of "standing before" others, not of "ruling over" them. It is the common word for leadership. Leaders can lead only if they are able to persuade some to follow.

Another verse used to support command authority is Hebrews 13:17, which the Revised Standard Version renders, "Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as men who will have to give account." The imperative translated "obey" is from the word peitho, to persuade. In the middle voice, used here, Thayer's lexicon gives its meaning as "to suffer one's self to be persuaded." Again there is no thought of a right to command someone against his will, but the clear thrust is that leaders are persuaders whose ability to persuade arises not from a smooth tongue or a dominant personality, but from a personal walk which evokes respect.

At this point many may be tempted to say, "What difference does it make? After all, the pattern of command authority is too widely established to alter now, and besides, many churches seem to be doing all right as it is; why try to change now?"

In response, consider the following:

1. The Bible indicates that any deviation from the divine plan inevitably produces weakness, division, strife, increasing fruitlessness, and, ultimately, death. The present low state of many churches is testimony to the effects of ignoring, over a long period of time, God's way of working.

2. A command structure of authority in the church deprives the world of any model or demonstration of a different way of life than the one it already lives by. Worldlings see no difference in the church, and can see no reason why they should change and believe.

3. A command authority inevitably produces resentment, repression, exploitation and, finally, rebellion. It is the law, which scripture assures us we can never redeem or restore, but which must, by its very nature, condemn and repress.

4. The desire of the Lord Jesus to show to the world a wholly new form of authority which is consistent with grace, not law, is nullified by a command structure among Christians, and the gospel of dying-to-live is denied even before it is proclaimed. This means that God is robbed of his glory and distorted before the watching world. Nothing could be more serious than this!

Admittedly, a call for a change of this nature is radical, even revolutionary. But since when was the church called to be a conforming society? Is it not high time we took seriously our Lord's words: "it shall NOT be so among you"?


http://ldolphin.org/pastorauth.html

"The Church has been on the earth for a long time now. Yet God has never once asked anyone to manage a church, neither has He called upon a few more advanced brothers to set up a church. To the contrary, the services of the local church are all governed by the Holy Spirit." "Let me say to each of my beloved brethren in the work, that notwithstanding how strong your ministry may be, how rich may be your gift, and how useful you are, you are a Nicolaitan if you monopolize all services. You have nothing to boast of; rather, you must confess your sin. Your personal piety will destroy the church instead of building it up. The right and correct way of work is to lead all the brothers and sisters into service. More service or less service is not the issue here. The pressing issue before us is that everyone must serve. Unless all serve, there is no church. Here, then is today's way: the work must be done by the entire church; it is the church and not just a few individuals, that preaches the gospel. No matter how well you each work, you become a Nicolaitan if you are a substitute for other people in the body of Christ. You may have a ministry but do not, as a consequence, have the church in reality. However successful may be certain so-called spiritual giants or great revivalists, their works are a failure if they fail to bring in body ministry."

"What is Nicolaitanism? (Revelation.2:6, 15 ) "But this you have, that you hate the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate,  So have you also those who hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate" The meaning of the word Nicolaitane is quite revealing. It means "conquering the people." Nicolaitanism developed into the clergy- laity system that we have in most of the church today. What is wrong with this is that the Lord never intended that one group of people in the church (clergy) would rule and reign over another group.(laity). The following scripture is addressed to Shepherds and overseers in the church of God: "Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight therof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre (greed for money), but of a ready mind; Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being examples of the flock." (1Peter 5: 2, 3).


"I have been to protestant churches that were set up much like the Roman Catholic church. Instead of having a priest though you had a pastor. Just as the priest stood between God and the people, the pastor did the same. We should be submitted to authority but we do not have to go through any one man to have access to God. Nor does God speak to us exclusively through any one man. Every believer is a king and a priest unto God. There is only one mediator between God and man, and that is Jesus Christ our Lord. "


WATCHMAN NEE

Leadership is not the same as lordship. Attack on leadership in Gods house is a voice of rebels . God commands us to submit to authority.

Hebrews 13:17
17 Obey your leaders, and accept their authority. They take care of you because they are responsible for you. Obey them so that they may do this work joyfully and not complain about you. (Causing them to complain would not be to your advantage.)

1 Peter 2:13
13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;

1 Peter 5:5
5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.

What's the difference between leadership and lordship? Was Jesus a leader, lord or both?

Isnt there a difference between respect and adulation?

1 Corinthians 3:4-9 NLT
When one of you says, "I am a follower of Paul," and another says, "I follow Apollos," aren't you acting just like people of the world?
After all, who is Apollos? Who is Paul? We are only God's servants through whom you believed the Good News. Each of us did the work the Lord gave us. I planted the seed in your hearts, and Apollos watered it, but it was God who made it grow. It's not important who does the planting, or who does the watering. What's important is that God makes the seed grow. The one who plants and the one who waters work together with the same purpose. And both will be rewarded for their own hard work. For we are both God's workers. And you are God's field. You are God's building.

Today - Some were planted by Chris and some by Joe Agbaje AND they claim they water & make them grow too since they are gods (just like baal)

No wonder 2 year olds are encouraged to want to be like pastor chris

Leadership is not the same as lordship. Attack on leadership in Gods house is a voice of rebels . God commands us to submit to authority.

That's how you use threats and counter threats to control people in your church    This is nothing less than witchcraft.

You have no right to control God's flock, Jesus is their Chief pastor not you and therefore you have to serve in the capacity that God called you exactly as the bible says you should. Which is to appoint elders filled with Holy Spirit to serve the flock, kick out false doctrine, protect them from wolves in sheep clothing, meet the needs of the saints, preach the gospel, praise GOD and most importantly ensure that sin is rooted out with the mercy, love and severity of GOD.


I personally do not feel comfortable in a church where only one man knows it all, has it all and Lords it over the sheep.

Tell me, is the Holy Spirit not for ALL ? Is he not the real and true teacher ? Why then do you force the sheep to believe every doctrine that you cook up and might not have prayed over , down their throats and tell them they must believe.

The gospel is simple and easy not complex like some of you have made it into.

17 Obey your leaders, and accept their authority. They take care of you because they are responsible for you. Obey them so that they may do this work joyfully and not complain about you. (Causing them to complain would not be to your advantage.

Yes and these are leaders NOT ONE PASTOR. Each church in a region had a group of elders who managed the affairs.

Do you know that Peter was supposed to lead the Sheep at it's early onset , but Paul told him off once for separating himself from the gentiles ?

A 'todays' Pastor would have sent him out of the church for rebellion.

The elders however have the leadership authority to send out so called believers who live in sin , not to reject them entirely , but for two purposes :

1. Protect the flock from corrupting influences.
2. Drive the sinner to repentance and restoration.


In fact its funny to know that in the early church the apostles were mainly concerned with :

1. False doctrine ( like the many you guys propagate here )

2. Sin

Money was not in their sermons ( ) except when it concerned giving to the poor and needy.

1 Peter 2:13
13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;

Another misquotation.

This is in reference to secular authority.

1 Peter 5:5
5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.[/color]

Can the highlighted text in bold be true for many churches today ? Do the MOG submit to the younger brethren ? I think not.

They are full of pride and their egos go before them, loving to be called by titles such as bishop, pastor etc.

@froebel

frosbel:

That's how you use threats and counter threats to control people in your church    This is nothing less than witchcraft.

What is the threat?

You have no right to control God's flock, Jesus is their Chief pastor not you and therefore you have to serve in the capacity that God called you exactly as the bible says you should. Which is to appoint elders filled with Holy Spirit to serve the flock,

But they ought to follow their physical pastor .

Philippians 3:17
Brethren, be followers together of me. . .

Get the balance brother.

I personally do not feel comfortable in a church where only one man knows it all, has it all and Lords it over the sheep.

God always deal with people through one head . Every body has their place. The pastor feeds with the word ,but he is nit the choir leader or the evangelist or deacon. Someone has to lead . You can have many teachers etc.You can't have many fathers

1 Corinthians 4:15
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

Tell me, is the Holy Spirit not for ALL ? Is he not the real and true teacher ? Why then do you force the sheep to believe every doctrine that you cook up and might not have prayed over , down their throats and tell them they must believe.

So who cooked doctrine? And who force it on people? Everybody have their bibles to study. If a doctrine is not convincing, you ask question. We are not in bondage.We should be like the berean church.

Acts 17:11
11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Yes and these are leaders NOT ONE PASTOR. Each church in a region had a group of elders who managed the affairs.

Jude was a church pastor, Timothy was a pastor, Titus was a pastor and others. Like aquila and and priscilla were padtors While paul was like overhead.

Do you know that Peter was supposed to lead the Sheep at it's early onset , but Paul told him off once for separating himself from the gentiles ?
A 'todays' Pastor would have sent him out of the church for rebellion.

Paul was a commissioned apostle . Peter came to his church. He had right to correct Peter,because it was his congregation.   But paul didn't  rebuke them in their own congregation. When he went for the Jerusalem council meeting. He obviously wasn't in agreement with everything they said . Especially James judgement. But he kept mute. He respected the authority there.

1 Peter 2:13
13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;
Another misquotation.
This is in reference to secular authority.

No sir, any authority. Either in the home , in society or in the house of God. God is against rebellion to any form of authority .Take for example when Paul insulted the high priest mistakenly  out of anger. He had to apologise and rebuked himself by the word of God.

Acts 23:2-5
2 Instantly Ananias the High Priest commanded those close to Paul to slap him on the mouth.
3 Paul said to him, "God shall slap you, you whitewashed pigpen. What kind of judge are you to break the law yourself by ordering me struck like that?"
4 Those standing near Paul said to him, "Is that the way to talk to God's High Priest?"
5 "I didn't realize he was the High Priest, brothers," Paul replied, "for the Scriptures say, `Never speak evil of any of your rulers.'"[/Color]