word!!!

Will hold on to the quote below . . .

The UK, US and South Africa are secular nations, but have Islamic banking.
Yet the world has not come to a standstill. So why are you bent on creating a storm in a tea cup over this issue?

Reply

Alright, let me ask two questions…They have Islamic banking in the UK. Good. Number one, in the UK, do they have the council of Sharia experts that are interpreting Islamic banking in the Exchequer (Central Bank of the UK )? Let Sanusi and his people give us that answer. My number two question is how much does the Islamic banking bring into the economy of Britain? We would also want to know. What does it add to it? Look at Pakistan, look at India. They were once one country. They were divided on the same day. Pakistan operates Islamic banking, while India operates regular banking. Look at the two countries; which is doing well and which is not doing well? Do I have to tell anybody? The facts are there for all to see.

From the reports that I have, even in Saudi Arabia, which is the headquarters of all Moslems, and anything Sharia in the world, is there oil industry operated with Sharia law? The answer is no. It is operated by regular banking. If the Islamic banking is so wonderful, why is it not operated like that? It is operated with regular banks. Go and check some of these things, you would see what I mean. Go round; you will notice that the countries they are mentioning that are stable and viable countries are not so because of Islamic banking.

Look let CAN decide to start their own christian non-interest banking, i'm sure no one will stop them.
Instead of all these noise about a banking idea let them stop buying private jets with people's money and set up a bank to help their members.
Rubbish!

Good, I love this pastor!!!
Anybody knows how I can reach him Or donate to his cause?

reindeer:

Look let CAN decide to start their own christian non-interest banking, i'm sure no one will stop them.
Instead of all these noise about a banking idea let them stop buying private jets with people's money and set up a bank to help their members.
Rubbish!

Read the article again if you can, because you missed his reason why starting christain banking is not the solution: we're a secular nation

pastor Ayo

religious contractor/consultant to aso rock

Akanbi_edu:

pastor Ayo

religious contractor/consultant to aso rock

Excuse me, apart from childish name calling, I didn't see any challenge to the points man made

If I were Ayo, I'd probably do the same. E easy to dey go pray for aso rock?

naijaking1:

Read the article again if you can, because you missed his reason why starting christain banking is not the solution: we're a secular nation

secular nation indeed! why do you have xmax and easter holidays?

Akanbi_edu:

secular nation indeed! why do you have xmax and easter holidays?

Don't forget ed-el fitir, and ed-el kabir while you're at it.

Am I the one claiming secularity here?

reindeer:

Look let CAN decide to start their own christian non-interest banking, i'm sure no one will stop them.
Instead of all these noise about a banking idea let them stop buying private jets with people's money and set up a bank to help their members.
Rubbish!

obviously you didn't the interview.nobody is say there cant be 'islamic' banking.it's the way sanusi is going about it.go to vanguard's website, you'll see it as one of the headlines
are you aware sanusi has in the last few months changed some of its regulations including its name from non-interest banking to islamic banking?

reindeer:

Look let CAN decide to start their own christian non-interest banking, i'm sure no one will stop them.
Instead of all these noise about a banking idea let them stop buying private jets with people's money and set up a bank to help their members.
Rubbish!

obviously you didn't the interview.nobody is say there cant be 'islamic' banking.it's the way sanusi is going about it.go to vanguard's website, you'll see it as one of the headlines
are you aware sanusi has in the last few months changed some of its regulations including its name from non-interest banking to islamic banking?

Pastor Ayo, have you ever paid tax in your life? what exactly are these religious bodies contributing to this country? I'm really tired of these Christians and Muslims bigots disturbing our peace  

Silly Pastor,The Man should just go and seat down somewhere,

No one is forcing any Christian to do business with the bank.

When Christian are busy getting Licensed to build  Christian University, No Muslim complain about the project,because Muslim are not force to take their Children to the school,instead Muslim get their Licensed to Build Muslim University Also,so if CAN and other Christian Are not comfortable with it,Let them get licensed for their Own Christian University,Instead of just shout here and there,they are not forcing anyone to open an account there or do business with them.

Just tired of hearing Deluded People Shouting Like crying Babies

abes:

Pastor Ayo, have you ever paid tax in your life? what exactly are these religious bodies contributing to this country? I'm really tired of these Christians and Muslims bigots disturbing our peace  

Why would he pay tax? The money (tithe) in his care is God's money, he's just helping God to spend it. Why should he give money meant for God to the government? Is God not bigger than government?

^^^^
There you go again with your childish name-calling and unsophisticated diversonary tactics from the main issues.

I believe the man as a point Sanusi shouldn't be the driving force, lets look at it this way when the Islamic banks is Operational and there is a need to
increase the interest rate, what would be the effect on non-Islamic banks? those bank that offer Islamic banking in UK and Us offer it as a product not separate branches as CBN proposes.

This pastor made very strong points. Unless one is hell bent and blinded by religious fanatiscm, there is no way you wouldn't see all his points.
And even if Orisajiofor is a "troublemaker" what about the highly respected Cardinal Okogie and other christian leaders who have spoken along the same line? Are they also "crazy"?
What other indicator do we need in this country to show that the media and religious circus run by Sanusi from the CBN should stop

Okay, I have watched or read these arguments for too long without giving any input. CAN for lack of a better word is really a f, Rtd!
If these are the leaders, no wonder some Xtians on NL are equally retarded!

Now they, CAN, say "there will be trouble" no one is batting an eyelid. It is indeed an open threat!

Why don't the Christians who for more than n50% of the banking industry go right ahead and start a CHRISTIAN/BIBLE/JESUS BANK?

Islamic banking is just a commodity offered to those who want it. It does not eliminate the so called secular banking.

These hatred of Islam borders on insane and will only combust y'all!

Who's gonna call sheikh Sanusi to order??

Oritsejafor?the religious contractor?Ah i see!
I wouldn't listen to someone who isnt a taxpayer.

blkmum700:

Silly Pastor,The Man should just go and seat down somewhere,

No one is forcing any Christian to do business with the bank.

When Christian are busy getting Licensed to build  Christian University, No Muslim complain about the project,because Muslim are not force to take their Children to the school,instead Muslim get their Licensed to Build Muslim University Also,so if CAN and other Christian Are not comfortable with it,Let them get licensed for their Own Christian University,Instead of just shout here and there,they are not forcing anyone to open an account there or do business with them.

Just tired of hearing Deluded People Shouting Like crying Babies

blkmum700:

Silly Pastor,The Man should just go and seat down somewhere,

[b]No one is forcing any Christian to do business with the bank.[/b]When Christian are busy getting Licensed to build Christian University, No Muslim complain about the project,because Muslim are not force to take their Children to the school,instead Muslim get their Licensed to Build Muslim University Also,so if CAN and other Christian Are not comfortable with it,Let them get licensed for their Own Christian University,Instead of just shout here and there,they are not forcing anyone to open an account there or do business with them.

Just tired of hearing Deluded People Shouting Like crying Babies

Then tell your shiek to stop promoting it with tax-payers money
you called someone silly,are you well at-all

Sanusi blew it up from onset by calling it Islamic banking, and which has made CAN to have a valid point. A non-interest banking should be non-interest banking. Nigeria is multi-religious country. Don't compare Nigeria with countries that have Muslims as foreigners.

Let's say the Islamic banking is not gonna stir up any fight, I still don't see any reason to brand it Islamic banking. I'll only say thanks to Sanusi for tearing the country apart more.

What CAN is saying is not different from what most of us have been hammering on this forum since the idea of Islamic banking came up.SLS is simply a bigot

the issue here in nigeria is different from those of SA, USA, UK having islamic banking, there is hidden agenda here and that is why people are skeptical about it.

Why SANUSI put this agenda on his head while he has some other important things to do?

Introduction of islamic banking suppose to be simple without bottle neck, let the CBN set the rules and investors finish the job.

CBN conditions and interest rate to all banks should be equal, then if investors say i am muslim, i dont want profit, bank with me, that is their headache on how to operate and generate necessary funds.

If the profit from the farmlands and livestocks are not enough to run the so called islamic banking the we will turn to the tax-payer and oil-money to run it just because we want to present islamic banking - or what other options?

Islamic banking:
Sanusi looking for trouble
—CAN president
By BEIFOH OSEWELE



T he latest of the controversies in Nigeria is the Islamic Banking being touted by the Central Bank of Nigeria (CBN) governor, Sanusi Lamido Sanusi. In reaction, the Christian Association of Nigeria (CAN) has put its feet on the ground that it won’t work. The body suspects and says there is more to the agenda than meets the eye, and is clearly opposed.

The CAN President, Pastor Ayo Oritsejafor, in this explosive interview, outlines the argument of the group he leads and why it would never accept Islamic banking as championed by Sanusi.

He also faults Sanusi as lying to the nation in his comment that he had made efforts to reach the Christians on the matter without success.
This is a must-read for his contentions and how Sanusi has been running the CBN as a sectional and religious body in defiance of the law and the constitution.
But in conclusion, Oritsejafor says these problems coming up from all corners now, from security to other matters, are like intentional traps and hurdles put in the way of the president by people who would not want him to succeed.

You have been very critical of the proposed Islamic banking. What is your understanding of it and what is your problem with Central Bank of Nigeria governor, Mallam Sanusi Lamido Sanusi?
First, I want to begin by saying, I like Sanusi.  In my opinion, he is one of the people you can look at in this country and say, this is a man that has what it takes to articulate what he believes; whether it’s right or wrong, good or bad.  So, for that, I admire him.
We are not against Muslims.  Muslims are our brothers and sisters.  Nigeria is a nation that has both Muslims and Christians.  It doesn’t matter what we say, Muslims will always be here.  It doesn’t matter what Muslims think, Christians will always be here.  We might as well accept each other and be happy, because that’s the reality.  So, we appreciate them and wish them well.

The problem is this; what does the original CBN Act say about non-interest banking?  The original thing does not specify Islamic banking.  I don’t know why the CBN governor is kind of twisting things in a way to confuse Nigerians. The original provision is just non-interest banking.

Islamic banking is just one kind among many other kinds of non-interest banking.  So, why would CBN, an organization, an institution that represents the Federal Government, that is an institution that represents all Nigerians zero in on only on one kind of non-interest banking. This is the problem with Sanusi and his idea.
In education, there is only one set of guideline for those who want to establish schools.

The Ministry of Education or any other institution charged with the responsibility in Nigeria will not come out with Islamic guideline, Christian guideline, or native doctor guideline.  It’s only one basic, level playing field guideline for education.  You want to start a school, you take the guideline, vis-à-vis your belief, to go and start.  We have Islamic universities in Nigeria.  We have Christian universities.  Do they have different guidelines?  They all have the same guidelines.  This is what we are saying.

Now, the guidelines for non-interest banking has been changed two or three times.

[b]Why is Sanusi changing it?  
Because he is discovering his mistake.  But he doesn’t want to own up to it. What he is doing is that he twists it a little bit here, twists it a little bit there.  Now, the latest guideline came out on June 21.  If you study it, it says, Islamic banking, number one.  Then number two-other non-interest banking.  That to us is discriminating – discriminating against non-Muslims.

Why would you put Islamic banking on one side, all other non-interest banking on one side?  
What makes Islamic banking special or more special?  
What makes it different from other non-interest banking forms?  So, these are the issues.
Also, if you keep looking closer, you discover that even the Islamic banking itself … Now before I come to that, they have a conference going on now in Abuja (the conference opened on Monday); why should he organize an Islamic banking conference?  Why not have a non-interest banking conference?  This is what we are saying.
CBN has no business promoting a special, specific, religious kind of banking.  CBN should be promoting non-interest banking.  And everyone who is interested in non-interest banking should be invited to a non-interest banking seminar or conference.
[/b]
 So, are you seeing the problem we are looking at here?
Now, a lot of money has been spent promoting Islamic banking. Why?  It’s wrong.  It’s unfair to spend all that money-government’s money-on a sectional kind of banking.  It is those who want to start Islamic bank that have the responsibility to spend that kind of money and do whatever they want to do to promote their bank.  Why should you, as Central Bank Governor of Nigeria, be promoting that sectional banking?  Is he telling us that when Christians start theirs, he’d go through all these?  I have been told by a reliable source that he has employed a lot of people specifically to run and promote Islamic banking.  How do you do that with state money? You have no right to that.

Now, let us look at Islamic banking itself…he has told us there will be no discrimination. Okay?  He has also told us that Islamic banking is governed by Shariah principles, which means if I am in piggery farming, and I go to Islamic bank and say I need a loan, would they give me?  The answer is no.  So, how can you say that they are not discriminatory?  They’re discriminating.  It’s obvious.

So, since it’s like that, CBN has no business promoting it. It a private venture and should be treated so.  Those interested in it can promote it for themselves because it’s obvious that it’s a sectional thing.  So, we don’t quarrel with Muslims who want Islamic bank.  Go ahead, have Islamic bank, but not at the expense of Nigeria.  So, CBN has no business getting into it.

Now a lot of people have said that even this so-called Islamic bank can be used for terrorism, for money laundering and to bring in money for terrorists. Sanusi has told us it’s not possible.  But I was reading a newspaper on Monday where he revealed that in 1990 or 1999, there were two banks, according to him, that applied for Islamic banking licence and one of them was Al-Qaeda.  They applied for licence at that time.  And, according to him, they were turned down.  What stops Al Qaeda from applying now through other sources, like getting Nigerians who sympathise with them to make sure they meet all the guidelines?  They would start it, but it will be owned by terrorists.

Okay, even if it’s not owned by terrorists, if those who start it are sympathizers with terrorists, what happens?  So, there are lots of implications.
Again, as I said I don’t quarrel with Islamic banking because we have a lot of Muslims in Nigeria. But my point is, CBN and Sanusi Lamido Sanusi, have no business promoting it. That’s the issue. And there should be one guideline that covers all non-interest banking. And then let everybody go into the field and fight for spaces. Get customers for themselves. Get the thing running for themselves. CBN is not supposed to be in charge of promoting it. This is the problem, especially using state funds to promote Islamic banking.

Everyday I listen to Sanusi, it puzzles me how a man can go all the way with this kind of thing and hold on to it. And to imagine that some Nigerians, for whatever reason, are looking and applauding him.
In fact, is this the time to be promoting Islamic banking? Look at the tension in the nation. Well, I read in the newspapers that he is appealing to Muslims not to join issues with us. Why is he doing that? It’s because the thing is becoming a problem. Now, it’s raising the tension in the country.

But some people say if there’s anyone heating up the polity, it’s you, Pastor Ayo Oritsejafor.
How do you react to this accusation?

Again, you see, it always puzzles me that it is people like us that respond to the wrong things that people accuse of heating the polity? No person ever makes effort to get to the roots. The person who started the issue (Islamic banking) is the one who is really heating up the polity. Not the one who is responding to something. Now this is the problem. That was why I said sometime ago, at whose expense do we always talk about the unity of Nigeria. Is there a certain group in this country that must continue to pay the price for the unity? We just pay them, sit down and allow other people to do whatever they like? And after they’ve done it and we respond to it, they say we are the ones causing the problem, not the one that originates its. It puzzles me. The person heating the polity is Sanusi. They should direct their accusation and their problem to him.

What do they mean that I am the one heating up the polity?
That I should let Sanusi have his way?
Not exactly. They say since you have access to Mr. President, who is a fellow Niger Deltan, you should seek audience with him and resolve whatever issues you have…
(Cuts in) Listen to me; he is the president of the whole federation. He is not the president of Niger Delta.

And he’s a Christian…
But that doesn’t mean he’s a president of just the Christians. He’s president of both Muslims and Christians.

So as a Christian, what makes you think the president would sit down and watch the country being islamised as you have been insinuating?
Well, let me say this; do you really know how he feels? I don’t know, and you don’t know.

Why don’t you go to him and find out?
I don’t want to go to him because I don’t want it to look as if because he is a Christian, that is why we’re approaching him to get him to act. No, no, no. What we are doing is, making the public to know exactly what is happening; the agenda of this gentleman (Sanusi), and also to make the public know that something is wrong. I think it’s my responsibility as a leader of a group of people, who are probably more than half of the total population of this country to do so. I can’t sit down and watch this kind of thing happening. It’s wrong. Again, I repeat, what we are simply saying is; have one guideline for non-interest banking. He should stop this issue of having one set of guideline for Islamic banking and another set of guideline for other non-interest banking. If all is non-interest banking, then there should be a level playing field. We shouldn’t have one for this and one for that. That is discriminatory.

Do you really see this thing as Sanusi’s agenda or you think he’s being engineered from somehow?
Well, I don’t have proof of anybody remotely controlling him. At the same time, I don’t rule it out. But the person I see is Sanusi. Wherever he got this idea from, something is wrong. He should reconsider, and understand that he is governor of a Central Bank, not a Muslim Central Bank. It’s a Nigerian Central Bank, for all Nigerians.

I don’t know whether you’ve heard that the approval for Islamic banking was actually done by Prof. Soludo?
First of all, I don’t know why Soludo is not speaking out. He knows why. He has his reasons. He is very quiet on this. Now, the question is, did Soludo write out non-interest banking guideline just for Islamic banking? Is that what Soludo did? Or Soludo put together guideline for non-interest banking? I would be very surprised if Soludo did just guideline for Islamic banking. I suspect that that is not what Soludo did. I believe what Soludo probably did was to set out guidelines for non-interest banking, which is okay, which is exactly what we are talking about. We are talking about non-interest banking. Soludo could not have come out with only Islamic non-interest banking guideline. Not at all.

As journalists, investigate what I have said now. Go and find out very well. Or if you see Sanusi, ask him. Let him tell us the truth, or bring out the original thing that Soludo did. Let Nigerians see it. A[b]nd if Soludo drew up guidelines just for Islamic banking, we would like to question Soludo as to how he came up with that. So, it’s not for Sanusi to keep referring to him. The reason he is doing that is that he knows Soludo is a Christian. So, he has decided to use that as a very comfortable and convenient blackmail. [/b]

But even at that, does it mean a Christian cannot do something wrong?
A Christian too can be wrong. So, assuming Soludo actually did that, Soludo is wrong. Will I say because he is a Christian, say that he is right for doing that? But I am not very sure that is what Soludo did. So Sanusi should bring out the exact thing that Soludo did.

I would be shocked if Soludo would ever do that, because that man is someone with international understanding of how the economics of the world operates.  He wouldn’t have had that kind of narrow-mindedness that would make him just draw up guidelines for Islamic banking.

Sanusi also said that he invited the Christian leadership to a conference where he could have explained the intricacies of Islamic banking, but you didn’t show up
That is not true. It’s not true. Well, probably you didn’t hear him well. Or you didn’t get what he said well. The truth is (laughs) this issue of Islamic banking has been on for a long time. When did he try to contact me? He never did until last week Thursday. Last week Thursday, [b]I had a national meeting of Christian leaders in Abuja. I was already in the meeting with my key leaders when somebody called me. Sanusi didn’t talk to me.

Somebody called me and said Sanusi is asking if he could come to that meeting to explain to us what Islamic banking is?
And my reply was no. Are you getting what I am saying?
We were in a national meeting; we didn’t plan for Sanusi. We didn’t gather because of Sanusi. He got wind of the meeting and so he was trying to take advantage of it. So, we don’t know the reason he wanted to show up in that meeting. And the meeting had started already. So, for him to say he wanted to come and we rebuffed him is not correct. Let him tell the truth to the public. It’s not as if he planned the meeting. Or we agreed on a meeting and we didn’t show up.

In fact, after this meeting I am talking about, we had a press conference. There, a reporter asked me, ‘Sanusi has been telling people he consulted widely with stakeholders, did he consult with you.’  And I said, no. Sanusi never consulted with us. Sanusi was only trying to consult with us last Thursday. When this process had gone on for so long, you have changed your policy two, three times, you have done all these, now you are contacting us just last Thursday. We were already in a meeting, so we should have stopped that meeting, put aside whatever we had to discuss just so you can come. No we can’t do that. So, I sent back after consultation with my colleagues to him that it was not convenient right then. That was what I told him.[/b]

And ever since then, he hasn’t tried to reach out to or make contact with you?
Not at all.  So, I was shocked when I read what he was saying in Kano. In fact, to be honest with you, some of my colleagues said thank God we didn’t allow him come; because only God knows how he would have twisted whatever would have happened in the meeting. We were shocked when we saw in the newspapers that he tried to consult with us.

Are you disappointed?
Yes, I am highly disappointed in him that he would go to that extent. Is this a man that really wants to work with the people? I don’t think so. Now if you wanted to go to your Islamic conference to kind of get more support from them, make noise and say all kinds of things, you ought to have told them the whole story. You ought to have let them know that all this while, at least, in the last one year that you have been doing all what you have been doing, you never contacted us.

Let be honest, CBN and National Christian Centre are neighbours. We are opposite each other. This man never made any contact with us for the one year or so that he has been in this process. We are neighbours. His office is here, my office is there. Are you getting what I am saying; it was last Thursday, and because our offices are very close, he somehow knew that we had a meeting. We were already in the meeting when my phone rang. Do you understand what I am saying?

And it wasn’t Sanusi that called you?
No, it wasn’t even him that phoned. It was one of our Christian leaders who was supposed to be in that meeting but was late that called me to say Sanusi got in touch with him and he is saying whether we can admit him into our meeting. So, I brought the matter to my fellow leaders because not too long after, this very gentleman came and joined us in the meeting. So, I threw it to them.
Look, I don’t want to start talking too much, but I am disappointed in Sanusi.

But whether you’re disappointed in him or not, Sanusi has said there is no going back on Islamic banking. He said the only thing that can stop him is the court.

Are you prepared to go the whole hog?
Well, let us wait and see. I have no comment. Let us just wait and see. That is all I would want to say for now.

But the man is going ahead with it… I wish him the best. Let us wait and see. That is all I will tell you. I know that CAN as an organisation would not want to comment on that right now. But as I have said, let’s wait and see.
   
But it is only proper you spell out your course of action so that your followers can know the sentiment of CAN in this matter
Just wait and see.

You are already being accused of incitement and heating the polity…Why don’t you tell your followers once and for all what you intend to do?
Again, I have told you, go and meet Sanusi. He is the one inciting one section of the country against the other. If he didn’t go into the issue of Islamic banking, we wouldn’t be where we are now. If Sanusi was talking about non-interest banking, period, we would not be where we are now. So, I am not going to talk further. I know that he has said that we should go to court.  Let us wait and see. Can’t you wait a bit? Wait a bit. Give me a few more days and then ask me again.

One person that was visibly missing at the Islamic banking conference in Abuja was Mr. President.
Did that surprise you?  
(Sighs) Am I the president? Go and ask him.

Would you have felt let down if he had been in attendance?
I have no comment. I am not the president. Go and ask him why he wasn’t there. So, I have no comment. I am not the president. Go and ask him why he wasn’t there.

Okay, some people have said, if you feel so strongly about Islamic banking, why don’t you push for Christian banking?
We won’t do that because when you start a wrong thing, you cannot in anyway correct a wrong thing by just throwing in something in the middle. If you want to correct a wrong thing, go to the root of that wrong thing and correct it from there.

At least, they say having Christian banking would balance the ticket?
No. That is not a balance. That is a dangerous precedent. We don’t want to see that in Nigeria. Nigeria is a secular nation. Somebody said it’s a multi-religious nation. It’s a secular nation.

The UK, US and South Africa are secular nations, but have Islamic banking.
Yet the world has not come to a standstill. So why are you bent on creating a storm in a tea cup over this issue?
Alright, let me ask two questions…They have Islamic banking in the UK. Good. Number one, in the UK, do they have the council of Sharia experts that are interpreting Islamic banking in the Exchequer (Central Bank of the UK )? Let Sanusi and his people give us that answer. My number two question is how much does the Islamic banking bring into the economy of Britain? We would also want to know. What does it add to it? Look at Pakistan, look at India. They were once one country. They were divided on the same day. Pakistan operates Islamic banking, while India operates regular banking. Look at the two countries; which is doing well and which is not doing well? Do I have to tell anybody? The facts are there for all to see.

From the reports that I have, even in Saudi Arabia, which is the headquarters of all Moslems, and anything Sharia in the world, is there oil industry operated with Sharia law? The answer is no. It is operated by regular banking. If the Islamic banking is so wonderful, why is it not operated like that? It is operated with regular banks. Go and check some of these things, you would see what I mean. Go round; you will notice that the countries they are mentioning that are stable and viable countries are not so because of Islamic banking.

Now, when they took us into OIC, they told us that OIC will make Nigeria to become great and that the economy will boom. Is that what has happened now? Please, let them tell me the benefits we are getting from our membership of OIC? I will be very interested. Name them for us and let us see. There is no benefit from OIC for the growth of the nation. So, you see, there are certain things that seem nice on the surface; that you can decorate, make look nice and present to be very nice to the public. But does that make it anything? So, these are just empty things that are well decorated like the one Sanusi champions today. Let us be very honest with ourselves; is it Islamic banking that would change the economy of Nigeria? We would be deceiving ourselves. Let us look at other nations; how many nations in this world can tell you that where they are now economically because of Islamic banking? There is not one. Not one. No single nation can tell you that.

So, we have to be very careful what we are doing and where we are going. The way we are going, we would run into serious problem, if care is not taken. We don’t want a situation where Nigeria becomes a country where Muslims would do this, Christians would do that. Is this a country based on religion? Is this not a secular country? Ours is a secular nation. That is what our constitution stands for. So, what exactly are we doing to ourselves? That is why we are saying Sanusi is the one dragging us into a religious conflict because he is now bringing religion into the economy and into banking. It is a very strange development for the governor of a Central Bank of a country.
In a way, some of us are not too surprised because most of the papers he has written and most of his degrees are in Sharia. You know, this man is a cleric. He is a mallam. I don’t know; let me not make comment that would be very vexing.

Are you saying he is too partisan to be a CBN governor?
He is too sectional, in my opinion. He is too sectional. I don’t know if partisan is the word. He is just too sectional. As I said, I don’t know why anybody would want to blame us who make comments rather than the person who starts the problem. We know that a few years ago when Soludo was there, Nigerians went into a strong debate and finally, the Arabic lettering in the naira was removed. Hausa, Igbo and Yoruba were brought in. Have you looked at your naira now? Do you still have Hausa, Igbo and Yoruba? They are not there again.

The Islamic letterings are back there again.
For God’s sake, what is wrong with this man?  
Look at the naira; there’s no Igbo, Yoruba or Hausa. But if I talk, you people would say I am the one stirring up the trouble. You know the man who is doing this thing; accuse him. He is creating problem. What is happening is that some of us take notice of these things and we are crying out. We’re saying, look, watch this man. This is the man dragging Nigeria into trouble.

Boko Haram problem is there. There is situation of insecurity. The country is tensed up. And this man is adding to it at this time. He should be cautioned. Enough is enough. He should calm down and let Nigeria have peace. Sanusi should stop troubling this nation.

Religion is something that carries fire, if you allow it. And it carries cold water as well. Why bring religion into economy? With what is going on now, we are playing with fire. Real fire. This is dangerous. And we are not the one stirring this up. It is the man who is adamant; saying, ‘I would do it. Only the court can stop me.’

The Central Bank governor talking like this?
It is a wonder
America and Britain have Central Bank governors; but do you even know their names?  If you know their names, how many times do you even hear them speak?  You hardly hear their voices. But our own Central Bank governor, oh God. In fact, I don’t think politicians are as loud as him. He is one of the 37 governors in Nigeria; and he is louder than all the ones elected. The one appointed is so loud. The ones elected are not as loud as himself. He is the one causing problem for the country.

What would you want to see as a way out of the problem?
Sanusi has already suggested going to court.

So are you taking his bait?
As I said, I don’t want to comment on that yet. Give me a few days. But also, on the other hand, all Sanusi has to do is to be reasonable. To see the handwriting on the wall; that in every segment and sections of the Nigerian government, there are guidelines: guideline governing education, guideline governing telecommunication, guidelines governing different things in Nigeria. In all these sectors, we don’t have duplicated guidelines. It is usually one uniform guideline. Why highlight religion? Why don’t you just have one guideline that covers all non-interest banking? If you do that, it doesn’t stop Moslems from getting a license.

They can get their license just like any other non-interest banking. And you don’t have to invest money into it. Let them get their license. Let them use their own money to promote Islamic banking; to get Nigerians interested in Islamic banking. Why must it be the Central Bank governor? I think there are enough problems in the country right now that the Central Bank governor should be interested about. But instead, he is concerned with Islamic banking.  That is what his trouble is; making it look like Islamic banking is going to solve all our problems.

Look at all the banks he told us were dying; and he pumped in billions of naira. What is the situation with those banks? Sometimes, we hear they are about to be sold. At other times, we hear they will be liquidated. There are kinds of things we are hearing. What is going on? Are those banks healthy? Are we in a stable banking situation right now in the country? If he has not sold those ones, why create other problems? I just cannot understand.


In view of the unfolding events in the country, the latest of which is the Boko Haram, do you have any fear for this country, particularly given the FBI report released a few years ago that said Nigeria may break up in 2015?
Well, first of all, many years ago, IBB reportedly said he didn’t know how Nigeria was still existing. Nigeria has existed as one up till this moment not so much because of our resolve to live together, work together and do things right. But I think God has been merciful. Somehow, there has been a divine touch to helping Nigeria remain one. But as we look at the trends, the events, the things happening, it is really frightening. I was looking at the newspapers and I saw Boko Haram was trying to blow up north-south bridge and all of that. You see, the thing is developing very fast. It is strange when you sit down and analyse all these things.

Now while we are still grappling with all that, Sanusi is coming with Islamic banking again. I am afraid. I want to continue to pray and ask those who love Nigeria to continue to pray. But as we pray, let us on our own say to ourselves, we want Nigeria to remain one; because if we don’t decide like that, we are trying to fulfil prophesy by ourselves. It is like we want to help the (FBI) report to happen faster than even what the people predicted. So that is my fear. What I am saying is that there are people working towards it. And it’s very frightening.

You are the co-chair of Nigeria Inter-Religious Council (NIREC) with the Sultan.
Have you taken some of these complaints to the body and what has been the attitude?
The problem is that we have not had a NIREC meeting for a while. We may not have it till September. That is quite sometime. There are some things I would have said, but I don’t want to get into it. Then again, I would be accused of heating up the polity.

Pastor, I got it from good authority that your counterparts in NIREC are not too comfortable with your style. They find it too volatile, to revolutionary. How do you react to such charges? Have you any apologies
Not at all. But I am hoping that that is not what they think. I am hoping that is not what they think or what they said. But if that’s what they think or said, I wish them the best, because I believe when you go to an organisation, you are representing something, someone or a group of people. So, I have a responsibility to represent my constituency. I am not there just to represent myself. I am there representing a group of people. So I must do what they sent me there to do. And as much as possible, that is what I am doing.

My concern is not with those people throwing the allegations. My concern is with the people who sent me. If the people who sent me there say ‘we are uncomfortable with the way you are doing, don’t do it like that, do it like this,’ then I am obligated to follow the instructions of those who sent me there. I am a servant of those who sent me there. I am doing what I believe they want me to do.

They believe as a Christian leader, you should be temperate. Not unduly radical, because now, they see you more as a fire-spitting activist than a religious leader.

What’s your reaction?
Well, again, the issue is this…I have always said that when I need to speak, I must speak, because I am representing people. When you look at events that have been happening in the north, who are the majority of people who are killed? Whose houses are burnt? Whose businesses are destroyed? Whose places of worships are destroyed? The majority of people killed, whose businesses and places of worship are destroyed, are Christians.  These are the people I am representing.

If it were the other way round, my counterpart will not be quiet. He will speak up. But, now he really has no issue to be speaking about. They have no issue here. Yes, agreed, that sometimes, Muslims are killed. If you hear that one mosque is burnt, at least, 20 churches have already been burnt. So, you have to understand that the issues on ground for me are heavy.

Your cross is heavier than that of your counterpart?
Very, very heavy. In fact, probably 100 times heavier. He doesn’t even have a cross. A Crescent is what he has. Look, I am from the South, please tell me, since you were born, how many mosques in the South had been burnt? Please, count them for me. How many Muslims have been targeted and killed in the South, since you were born? How many? Personally, I don’t think I can even remember. I am sure the reason I can’t remember is because probably it has never happened or one in a million.

If such things were happening in the South, do you think my friends on the other side would be quiet?
In fact, by now, Nigeria would be on fire.
But look at it, everyday, or every other day there are attacks. When you check, Christians are always at the receiving end. So, it would be very wrong of me as a leader to be quiet and just look.
When you read the Bible, Jesus was very mild and temperate. But He caned people out of the church. There were situations where Jesus reacted to issues. He called a king a fox. A king at that time was like the president of a country. So, Jesus called the president of a country, a fox. It is something that brings something. So, it is not that one is just an activist.

Who is an activist, anyway?
They say you are too hot for their liking
That is for their liking. What about my own people who are being killed? You must not only consider yourself. Consider me and consider my people that are being killed. So, as long as I am quiet, I am a nice man? Why should I be quiet? What do they want me to do; just to go and sleep in Warri? I can’t fall asleep now. I am alive. I have to look at issues as they come. Why is it that you are not working on your people to stop doing this? Am I the only one that would work for the unity of Nigeria? Shouldn’t we work together? It has to be a joint effort and a joint project. Haba!

The issue is, they want you to bring the matter for discussion in the room rather than taking them to the market place. Let me tell you this, for example, when the elections were concluded and the killings started, I was the one who called the Sultan, I called him, Your Eminence, my friend, look at what is happening. I was the one who told

Siddon there!!!

Cry Babies!!! I see bank CEOs sponsoring the killing of this, not gonna work!