HOW IS JESUS GOD ?


God is called The Rock in Deuteronomy

“He is the Rock, His work is perfect; For all His ways are justice, A God of truth and without injustice; Righteous and upright is He.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭32:4‬ ‭NKJV‬‬


This is the Rock of Israel

“The God of Israel said, The Rock of Israel spoke to me: ‘He who rules over men must be just, Ruling in the fear of God.”
‭‭II Samuel‬ ‭23:3‬ ‭NKJV‬‬


Also, Isaiah refers to God as the Rock


“Do not fear, nor be afraid; Have I not told you from that time, and declared it? You are My witnesses. Is there a God besides Me? Indeed there is no other Rock; I know not one.’ ””
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭44:8‬ ‭NKJV‬‬


This Is the Rock of Israel






So according to Isaiah, the Rock is an exclusive title belonging to God



No one else is referred to as the Rock in the scriptures


It’s an exclusive title given to God alone



But then Apostle Paul makes a disclosure in his letter to the church at Corinth




1. “Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea,



2. all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,



3. all ate the same spiritual food,


4. and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.”
‭‭I Corinthians‬ ‭10:1-4‬ ‭NKJV‬‬



verse 4 says that Rock in the Old Testament was Christ




How then is Jesus the Rock if God alone is the Rock of Israel according to the Scriptures?


There’s only one possible answer-



Jesus is God!



Blessings

But Christ also called Peter Rock - " on this rock..."

PoliteActivist:
But Christ also called Peter Rock - " on this rock..."

Jesus Christ did not call Peter a rock.

15 Then Jesus said to his followers, “And who do you say I am?”
16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
17 Jesus answered, “You are blessed, Simon son of Jonah. No one taught you that. My Father in heaven showed you who I am.
18 So I tell you, you are Peter. And I will build my church on this rock. The power of death will not be able to defeat my church.
19 I will give you the keys to God’s kingdom. When you speak judgment here on earth, that judgment will be God’s judgment. When you promise forgiveness here on earth, that forgiveness will be God’s forgiveness.”
20 Then Jesus warned his followers not to tell anyone he was the Messiah. - Matthew 16 vs 15 - 20

Peter had, prior to Jesus Christ's response, indicated Him, Jesus Christ as the Messiah promised by God through His prophets, even Isaiah,...

16. Because of these things, the Lord God says, “I will put a rock—a cornerstone—in the ground in Zion. This will be a very precious stone. Everything will be built on this very important rock. Anyone who trusts in that rock will not be disappointed. - Isaiah 28:16

Surely, you can understand from the above how Peter, the man, could not have been the rock God promised to put in the ground in Zion, the precious rock(Messiah) on which everything will be built?

Peter who was born a Jew would have had no problem understanding why Jesus Christ said the words, "upon this rock, I will build my Church" since he was probably trained from his youth to understand that God's Law sits as the Rock/agreement/Contract, and the foundation upon which Israel is built, this by YHWH - Deuteronomy 32 vs 1 - 37. God's Old Covenant Law which was set up by God as the National Constitution of the nation of Israel in the Land of Israel was the constitution upon which God's promise was established/built in Israel, and each Israelite was required to live in submission and obedience to that rock till the end - 2 Samuel 22 vs 1 - 47. So, Peter would have had no difficulties understanding that Jesus Christ meant He was God's New agreement/Rock upon which the Church that belonged to Jesus Christ - the Kingdom of God - is established/built, the very embodiment of what is God's Law and Gospel.

7 So, that stone brings honor for you who believe. But for those who don’t believe he is “the stone that the builders refused to accept, which became the most important stone.”
8 For them he is also “a stone that makes people stumble, a rock that makes people fall.” People stumble because they don’t obey what God says. This is what God planned to happen to those people.
9 But you are his chosen people, the King’s priests. You are a holy nation, people who belong to God. He chose you to tell about the wonderful things he has done. He brought you out of the darkness of sin into his wonderful light. - 1 Peter 2 vs 7 - 9

Peter wrote those words in his letter, not of Himself, but of Jesus Christ, the one who is the rock on which the Church of Jesus Christ is instead built upon.

13 The Lord All-Powerful is the one you should fear. He is the one you should respect. He is the one who should frighten you.
14. If you people would respect him, he would be a safe place for you. But you don’t respect him, so he is like a stone that you stumble over. He is a rock that makes both families of Israel fall. He has become a trap that all the people of Jerusalem will fall into.
15. (Many people will trip over this rock. They will fall and be broken. They will be caught in the trap.) - Isaiah 8:14 - 15

And what Peter quoted is that stated by the Prophet Isaiah of the Lord, not of Peter.

madegreatbygrace:
So according to Isaiah, the Rock is an exclusive title belonging to God
No one else is referred to as the Rock in the scriptures. It’s an exclusive title given to God alone. But then Apostle Paul makes a disclosure in his letter to the church at Corinth

1. “Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea,
2. all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,
3. all ate the same spiritual food,
4. and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.”
‭‭I Corinthians‬ ‭10:1-4‬ verse 4 says that Rock in the Old Testament was Christ

How then is Jesus the Rock if God alone is the Rock according to the Prophet Isaiah?
There’s only one possible answer-Jesus is God!

This case you made here is incoherent!

Jesus Christ is God because Paul insists that the rock from which the Israelites drank water that flowed out of a rock in the desert, water that was not spiritual by the way since the people thirsted again even after drinking from the rock?

7 A Samaritan woman came to the well to get some water, and Jesus said to her, “Please give me a drink.”
8 This happened while his followers were in town buying some food.
9 The woman answered, “I am surprised that you ask me for a drink! You are a Jew and I am a Samaritan woman!” (Jews have nothing to do with Samaritans.)
10 Jesus answered, “You don’t know what God can give you. And you don’t know who I am, the one who asked you for a drink. If you knew, you would have asked me, and I would have given you living water.”
11 The woman said, “Sir, where will you get that living water? The well is very deep, and you have nothing to get water with.
12 Are you greater than our ancestor Jacob? He is the one who gave us this well. He drank from it himself, and his sons and all his animals drank from it too.”
13 Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again.
14 But anyone who drinks the water I give will never be thirsty again. The water I give people will be like a spring flowing inside them. It will bring them eternal life.”
15 The woman said to Jesus, “Sir, give me this water. Then I will never be thirsty again and won’t have to come back here to get more water.” - John 4 vs 9 - 15

Jesus Christ, when He spoke to the Samaritan woman by the well, clearly stated that anyone who drinks from Him shall never thirst again. Yet we know quite well that those of Israel who drank the water that came from the rock thirsted after that, so Jesus Christ couldn't be that rock in the desert now, could He?
Something else Jesus Christ said of the water that He gives is that it will bring them eternal life. And of Israel, we know that many of them not only died, but perished in their grave after drinking water from the rock in the desert, so how could Jesus Christ be the rock in the desert?

Also, why is Paul the one to make this claim on behalf of Jesus Christ, and not Jesus Christ Himself asserting His Godhood at least?

madegreatbygrace:
HOW IS JESUS GOD ?

As for your title question, Yes, Jesus Christ is God, and no, this is not some endorsement of the trinity doctrine which is of men, lies, and not of God, who instead warned His followers not to submit themselves to the doctrines and traditions of men(including their churches) using His name.

---

As is written in Scripture, Jesus Christ is God, and God(the Father) is God, but God(the Father) is not Jesus Christ. This, a logical case of A is B but B is not A. And this is what is clearly explained in all of scripture to all those who will KNOW the Truth of God from the lies of men.

---

In Scripture, beginning in the Old Testament, we learn the following of God :
▪︎ God is God of Wrath
▪︎ God is God of Laws
▪︎ God is Good/Righteous
▪︎ God is Faithful
▪︎ God is Love
▪︎ God is True (Word)
▪︎ God is Life
.....
And of Jesus Christ, we are informed by Him, particularly in John 14 vs 6, that He is
▪︎ God's Truth (Word)
▪︎ God's Life
▪︎ God's Law (one of many) aka The Way

So as indicated, Jesus Christ is born from some of the very same essences that is God(Father) - they are both in synch as far as that which they share. And this explains much of what Jesus Christ said of His relationship to the Father
■ He, Jesus Christ, is in the Father, and the Father is in Him(Jesus Christ),
■ All that Jesus Christ gives to you, His follower, is that which the Father gives Him,
■ He, Jesus Christ does only that which His Father bids Him do,
■ He, Jesus Christ cannot do anything apart from the Father,
■ He, Jesus Christ said," “My Father never stops working, and so I work too.”
■ He, Jesus Christ also said, “I assure you that the Son can do nothing alone. He does only what he sees his Father doing. The Son does the same things that the Father does. The Father loves the Son and shows him everything he does."
....etc.

So, Jesus Christ is God. However, since Jesus Christ doesn't possess all of the essences of God inside of Him, God isn't Jesus Christ.

Kobojunkie:
Jesus Christ did not call Peter a rock.
Peter had, prior to Jesus Christ's response, indicated Him, Jesus Christ as the Messiah promised by God through His prophets, even Isaiah,...
Surely, you can understand from the above how Peter, the man, could not have been the rock God promised to put in the ground in Zion, the precious rock(Messiah) on which everything will be built?

Peter who was born a Jew would have had no problem understanding why Jesus Christ said the words, "upon this rock, I will build my Church" since he was probably trained from his youth to understand that God's Law sits as the Rock/agreement/Contract, and the foundation upon which Israel is built, this by YHWH - Deuteronomy 32 vs 1 - 37. God's Old Covenant Law which was set up by God as the National Constitution of the nation of Israel in the Land of Israel was the constitution upon which God's promise was established/built in Israel, and each Israelite was required to live in submission and obedience to that rock till the end - 2 Samuel 22 vs 1 - 47. So, Peter would have had no difficulties understanding that Jesus Christ meant He was God's New agreement/Rock upon which the Church that belonged to Jesus Christ - the Kingdom of God - is established/built, the very embodiment of what is God's Law and Gospel.
Peter wrote those words in his letter, not of Himself, but of Jesus Christ, the one who is the rock on which the Church of Jesus Christ is instead built upon.
And what Peter quoted is that stated by the Prophet Isaiah of the Lord, not of Peter.

See below.
And why, through out your response, you referred to God as separate from Jesus Chrust?

PoliteActivist:
1. See below.
2. And why, through out your response, you referred to God as separate from Jesus Chrust?

The debate only rages on in the minds of those who don't understand what is clearly indicated in scripture by Jesus Christ that He, the Messiah, the rock, a message echoed by Peter himself in his epistle.

2. There are two things to note here.

First of all, the Almighty God is a God of Laws, and His Law is God over those who live under them. So, YHWH is the Rock that was given to the people of Israel by the Almighty. He is Almighty God's Old Covenant Law for a National Constitution for the Nation of Israel in the Land/Kingdom of Canaan.

Whereas Jesus Christ is Almighty God's New Covenant Law and Truth, the Rock given to those who will follow Him in the Kingdom of Canaan. jesus Christ is not the God of Israel, YHWH, and so should not be confused in anyway with YHWH.

In addition, Jesus Christ is not the Almighty God Father, even though Jesus Christ is God.

No sane person will ever understand Christianity!

How can God be a Rock?

How can Jesus be God and God not be Jesus?

Jesus is Archangel Michael and his God is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob so his father is the same as our father, his God is our God! John 20:17

AntiChristian:
No sane person will ever understand Christianity!
How can God be a Rock?
How can Jesus be God and God not be Jesus?

You can go on coursera.org to take a course in Logical reasoning which will help you logically process what you read even in Scripture. Consider the expression

A IS C and B is C but A IS NOT B

This can help you logically resolve how it is possible for Jesus Christ to be God, but God(the Father) not be Jesus Christ. Someone said the other day that Jesus Christ is pretty logical in His teachings, something I quite agree with this since my knowledge of Him comes pretty much from logically processing all that He taught - what you call Christianity.

---

As for God being the Rock, read Deuteronomy 32 vs 1 - 47 where God explains it to the people of Israel..

AntiChristian:
No sane person will ever understand Christianity!

It's impossible for hypocrites to understand {Daniel 12:10} because their hearts are twisted:
“O faithless and twisted generation" Matthew 17:17
So no matter how hard anyone try as long as your heart is not pure you can never understand Christ and that's exactly what happened to Muhammad {Matthew 22:1-13} and all his followers as well {Matthew 15:14} not just false religionists claiming Christians so even though they're calling just "Lord! Lord!" he will deny them since they never understood him! Matthew 7:21-23

Kobojunkie:
The debate only rages on in the minds of those who don't understand what is clearly indicated in scripture by Jesus Christ that He, the Messiah, the rock, a message echoed by Peter himself in his epistle.

2. There are two things to note here.

First of all, the Almighty God is a God of Laws, and His Law is God over those who live under them. So, YHWH is the Rock that was given to the people of Israel by the Almighty. He is Almighty God's Old Covenant Law for a National Constitution for the Nation of Israel in the Land/Kingdom of Canaan.

Whereas Jesus Christ is Almighty God's New Covenant Law and Truth, the Rock given to those who will follow Him in the Kingdom of Canaan. jesus Christ is not the God of Israel, YHWH, and so should not be confused in anyway with YHWH.

In addition, Jesus Christ is not the Almighty God Father, even though Jesus Christ is God.

Actually YHWH is more than just the law. He gave the law. And he referred to himself as the great I AM - the same exact way Christ referred to himself. At no point in the Bible did he give any indication of being subordinate to any overarching Almighty God.

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus is Archangel Michael and his God is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob so his father is the same as our father, his God is our God! John 20:17

Blasphemy! Where in the Bible do you see this indicated?? Even the Devil, when he tempted Christ, made it clear he knew Lord Jesus was above the angels

AntiChristian:
No sane person will ever understand Christianity!

How can God be a Rock?

How can Jesus be God and God not be Jesus?
Kobojunkie MaxInDHouse

You actually have a point - somewhat. It is something you understand instinctively, not logically. U can legitimately ask, how can the one true God be on earth and at same time in heaven. Or how can the one and only true God be praying to God. Or how can he sacrifice himself to himself.., etc. The closest to our highly limited human understanding is that there is only one true God and Jesus Christ is part of that one true God - in a way the angels, prophets, etc are not.

Kobojunkie:
You can go on coursera.org to take a course in Logical reasoning which will help you logically process what you read even in Scripture. Consider the expression

A IS C and B is C but A IS NOT B

This can help you logically resolve how it is possible for Jesus Christ to be God, but God(the Father) not be Jesus Christ. Someone said the other day that Jesus Christ is pretty logical in His teachings, something I quite agree with this since my knowledge of Him comes pretty much from logically processing all that He taught - what you call Christianity.

---

As for God being the Rock, read Deuteronomy 32 vs 1 - 47 where God explains it to the people of Israel..

You equation is actually not analogous to Christian belief - what are the A,B,C?? Rather our Christian belief is that A is G, and B is G, and C is G, BUT A, B, and C are all different and unequal

madegreatbygrace:
HOW IS JESUS GOD ?


God is called The Rock in Deuteronomy

“He is the Rock, His work is perfect; For all His ways are justice, A God of truth and without injustice; Righteous and upright is He.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭32:4‬ ‭NKJV‬‬


This is the Rock of Israel

“The God of Israel said, The Rock of Israel spoke to me: ‘He who rules over men must be just, Ruling in the fear of God.”
‭‭II Samuel‬ ‭23:3‬ ‭NKJV‬‬


Also, Isaiah refers to God as the Rock


“Do not fear, nor be afraid; Have I not told you from that time, and declared it? You are My witnesses. Is there a God besides Me? Indeed there is no other Rock; I know not one.’ ””
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭44:8‬ ‭NKJV‬‬


This Is the Rock of Israel






So according to Isaiah, the Rock is an exclusive title belonging to God



No one else is referred to as the Rock in the scriptures


It’s an exclusive title given to God alone



But then Apostle Paul makes a disclosure in his letter to the church at Corinth




1. “Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea,



2. all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,



3. all ate the same spiritual food,


4. and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.”
‭‭I Corinthians‬ ‭10:1-4‬ ‭NKJV‬‬



verse 4 says that Rock in the Old Testament was Christ




How then is Jesus the Rock if God alone is the Rock of Israel according to the Scriptures?


There’s only one possible answer-



Jesus is God!



Blessings

Jesus is God according to the Christian concoction because Paul said so.

How Christians believe whatever this Paul says amazes me.

Was never a disciple. Never met Jesus.Yet, Christians disregard anything and everything the disciples who were with Jesus for at least three years said but would believe Paul, a self confess Liar

As people say now, no be juju be that?

Lukuluku69:


Jesus is God according to the Christian concoction because Paul said so.

How Christians believe whatever this Paul says amazes me.

Was never a disciple. Never met Jesus.Yet, Christians disregard anything and everything the disciples who were with Jesus for at least three years said but would believe Paul, a self confess Liar

As people say now, no be juju be that?

But it was not only St. Paul. John said "the Word was God". Jesus Christ Himself severally referred to himself as "I am" - God's name, and that He was one with God - same exact substance

PoliteActivist:


But it was not only St. Paul. John said "the Word was God". Jesus Christ Himself severally referred to himself as "I am" - God's name, and that He was one with God - same exact substance

The Word being with God now translate to the Word being God abi?

So, God's name has morphed into "I am" and not Yahweh or Jehovah again?

Everyday, new stuff

Please carry on.

PoliteActivist:

Blasphemy! Where in the Bible do you see this indicated?? Even the Devil, when he tempted Christ, made it clear he knew Lord Jesus was above the angels

Well Michael is the ARCHANGEL the angel that is above all other angels!

PoliteActivist:


You actually have a point - somewhat. It is something you understand instinctively, not logically. U can legitimately ask, how can the one true God be on earth and at same time in heaven. Or how can the one and only true God be praying to God. Or how can he sacrifice himself to himself.., etc. The closest to our highly limited human understanding is that there is only one true God and Jesus Christ is part of that one true God - in a way the angels, prophets, etc are not.

These are what many Christians believe that the Old testament people don't believe! You just have be illogical and insane to believe it.

MaxInDHouse:


It's impossible for hypocrites to understand {Daniel 12:10} because their hearts are twisted:
“O faithless and twisted generation" Matthew 17:17
So no matter how hard anyone try as long as your heart is not pure you can never understand Christ and that's exactly what happened to Muhammad {Matthew 22:1-13} and all his followers as well {Matthew 15:14} not just false religionists claiming Christians so even though they're calling just "Lord! Lord!" he will deny them since they never understood him! Matthew 7:21-23

So the Context of {Daniel 12:10} and Matthew 17:17 were about Christianity?

No be today you don dey lie as a JW elder!

Kobojunkie:
You can go on coursera.org to take a course in Logical reasoning which will help you logically process what you read even in Scripture. Consider the expression

A IS C and B is C but A IS NOT B

I don't think anyone Jesus preached to needed to log on to that website to study anything before understanding Jesus's message. You just had to show yourself for you to type that.

Provide an living example that fits into your ABC logical theory.

As for God being the Rock, read Deuteronomy 32 vs 1 - 47 where God explains it to the people of Israel..

Okay your God is Rock!

32 Listen, you heavens, and I will speak;
hear, you earth, the words of my mouth.
2 Let my teaching fall like rain
and my words descend like dew,
like showers on new grass,
like abundant rain on tender plants.
3 I will proclaim the name of the Lord.
Oh, praise the greatness of our God!
4 He is the Rock, his works are perfect,
and all his ways are just.
A faithful God who does no wrong,
upright and just is he.

Abeg who was calling your God Rock?

AntiChristian:

So the Context of {Daniel 12:10} and Matthew 17:17 were about Christianity?
No be today you don dey lie as a JW elder!

Of course it is!
That's why God's word said when Michael (Jesus) the one standing for the salvation of mankind begin his earthly ministry majority will NOT UNDERSTAND his mission.
You can read from verse one of Daniel capter 12.
So without those assigned to TEACH you neither Muhammad nor any of your sheiks can understand a single thing about Jesus Christ the man who brought CHRISTIANITY!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mr8glaM4ruM

Lukuluku69:


The Word being with God now translate to the Word being God abi?

So, God's name has morphed into "I am" and not Yahweh or Jehovah again?

Everyday, new stuff

Please carry on.

Ignorance. See below

PoliteActivist:
Actually YHWH is more than just the law. He gave the law. And he referred to himself as the great I AM - the same exact way Christ referred to himself. At no point in the Bible did he give any indication of being subordinate to any overarching Almighty God.

YHWH is God of Israel also, sort of Like Jesus Christ is God in the Kingdom of God, but He is not God(The Father) much like Jesus Christ is also not God(the Father)

Jesus Christ also referred to Himself as the I AM - after all He is an eternal Law much like YHWH is - but Jesus Christ is not God(the Father) aka The Almighty Himself. Instead He is a greater Law than YHWH is.

AntiChristian:


These are what many Christians believe that the Old testament people don't believe! You just have be illogical and insane to believe it.

So taking the Bible as a whole, do you get the impression that Lord Jesus is just another prophet or archangel??

God is not a man or a human being.
God is the creator of heaven and earth

God is not part of his creation.

God does not look like anything he created.

Any reference to physical thing is merely a metaphor .

Lastly God has no physical form

Worshipping a man as God is tantamount to idolatry..

It is forbidden.

Christianity is rebranded paganism..

Flee from it...

Kobojunkie:
YHWH is God of Israel also, sort of Like Jesus Christ is God in the Kingdom of God, but He is not God(The Father) much like Jesus Christ is also not God(the Father)

Jesus Christ also referred to Himself as the I AM - after all He is an eternal Law much like YHWH is - but Jesus Christ is not God(the Father) aka The Almighty Himself. Instead He is a greater Law than YHWH is.

I think you're beginning to confuse yourself
YHWH means "l am"

PoliteActivist:
1. You actually have a point - somewhat. It is something you understand instinctively, not logically.

2. U can legitimately ask, how can the one true God be on earth and at same time in heaven. Or how can the one and only true God be praying to God. Or how can he sacrifice himself to himself.., etc. The closest to our highly limited human understanding is that there is only one true God and Jesus Christ is part of that one true God - in a way the angels, prophets, etc are not.

The statement in bold is actually wrong.

Jesus Christ Himself was logical about who He is to those who follow Him. The prophets also explained Him logically to those who were to know Him, so how can He be instinctively explained when He was logically presented to us all?

2. And that is another wrong doctrine spewed at you from your pulpits to you, in place of that taught by Jesus Christ Himself in His Gospel.

AntiChristian:


These are what many Christians believe that the Old testament people don't believe! You just have be illogical and insane to believe it.

It is something you just know - not by our limited human understanding. You just know it is ok to worship Lord Jesus, and also know it is not ok to worship any of the prophets. You just know

Kobojunkie:
The statement in bold is actually wrong.

Jesus Christ Himself was logical about who He is to those who follow Him. The prophets also explained Him logically to those who were to know Him, so how can He be instinctively explained when He was logically presented to us all?

2. And that is another wrong doctrine spewed at you from your pulpits to you, in place of that taught by Jesus Christ Himself in His Gospel.

So answer the questions I asked