Any comment is welcome cause it's not clear to me. Was it the selfless act of volunteering to die for humans that made him son of God or did God create him specially, to be his son instead of the way he created normal angels?

Jesus was the word God used in creating everything, without him nothing was done
John 1

franugo:
Any comment is welcome cause it's not clear to me. Was it the selfless act of volunteering to die for humans that made him son of God or did God create him specially, to be his son instead of the way he created normal angels?

Can you rephrase your question so we can maybe better understand where you are coming from.

Are you asking if Jesus Christ was begotten fully God's Son from even before He was born a human here on earth?

Or are you asking if Jesus Christ underwent some of transformation after He supposedly volunteered to come down as God's Covenant of peace in human form?

Kobojunkiee:
Can you rephrase your question so we can maybe better understand where you are coming from.

Are you asking if Jesus Christ was begotten fully God's Son from even before He was born a human here on earth?

Or are you asking if Jesus Christ underwent some of transformation after He supposedly volunteered to come down as God's Covenant of peace in human form?

Was Jesus originally specially created as the son of God or was he a normal angel and his act of volunteering raised him to the exalted position of "son of God "?

Donald7610:
Jesus was the word God used in creating everything, without him nothing was done
John 1

I dont get it...what do you mean by he was a word?

And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began” (John 17:5)

franugo:
Was Jesus originally specially created as the son of God or was he a normal angel and his act of volunteering raised him to the exalted position of "son of God "?

If He was an ordinary angel before He volunteered then He would not have been God's begotten Son from His beginning also meaning that He was not always the Word of God aka God's Law and Truth from His beginning, right?

Kobojunkiee:
If He was an ordinary angel before He volunteered then He would not have been God's begotten Son from His beginning also meaning that He was not always the Word of God aka God's Law and Truth from His beginning, right?

Pls just give your opinion and don't add to my confusion sir

Tallesty1:
And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began” (John 17:5)

But genesis said in the beginning was just God and the world.

franugo:
Pls just give your opinion and don't add to my confusion sir

So you are looking for someone to feed you answers ---- basically tell you what to believe ---- instead of you figuring it all out for your own self as you go?

franugo:


But genesis said in the beginning was just God and the world.

Where in Genesis?

franugo:
Any comment is welcome cause it's not clear to me. Was it the selfless act of volunteering to die for humans that made him son of God or did God create him specially, to be his son instead of the way he created normal angels?

Oga, you want to open a Pandora box of grand epistle and delusional writings abi?

Just wait let this hit front page and let the delusional Nairaland Christians come and give their take on your poser.

One thing I can assure you is this: No headway in getting your answer rather you will be pulled in different ways with concoctions masquerading as exegesis. At the end of it all, you will take your poser in your pocket and let things be!.

Cheers!

franugo:
Any comment is welcome cause it's not clear to me. Was it the selfless act of volunteering to die for humans that made him son of God or did God create him specially, to be his son instead of the way he created normal angels?

Asking if Jesus, was the Son of God before He volunteered to come to earth or after, is just like asking, are you a husband before getting married, are you a father before having your son/daughter, are you a son before your parent gave birth to you, are you an adult while growing up as a teenager

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

Lukuluku69:


Oga, you want to open a Pandora box of grand epistle and delusional writings abi?

Just wait let this hit front page and let the delusional Nairaland Christians come and give their take on your poser.

One thing I can assure you is this: No headway in getting your answer rather you will be pulled in different ways with concoctions masquerading as exegesis. At the end of it all, you will take your poser in your pocket and let things be!.

Cheers!

Hmmmm so this is one of those let sleeping dogs lie situations....?

franugo:


Hmmmm so this is one of those let sleeping dogs lie situations....?

I like your choice of words with your statement. It is Apt.

For you to know you are on a red herring chase, take 100 Christians, give them a Bible (Just one version), read out a Chapter to them, bros I can guarantee you, you won't see 3-4 agreeing on anything. They never agree on anything because the ideas for the Faith are majorly Men ideas.

Even the Nature of Jesus person was as confusing as it was even to the Disciples that he taught and walked with him. Jesus knowing this even asked his own disciples who do people think he was, he asked them who the disciples think he is!

So, just let sleeping dog lie ooo. Unless you want to sample varied opinions about him.

Cheers!

Jesus was a creation of the Roman empire..

There is just God....single..
No mother, son or daughter....

The only person or people that was figuratively referred to as "son of God" is Israel.....

God is the universal consciousnesses personified, not a Jewish man up in the sky or a man who was nailed to a cross....

God is the universal creator.....

Isaiah 45:5

NNTR:
Asking if Jesus, was the Son of God before He volunteered to come to earth or after, is just like asking, are you a husband before getting married, are you a father before having your son/daughter, are you a son before your parent gave birth to you, are you an adult while growing up as a teenager

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

Why this kind of complicated response na?

Kobojunkiee:
So you are looking for someone to feed you answers ---- basically tell you what to believe ---- instead of you figuring it all out for your own self as you go?

I am looking for an answer to my question. How exactly would i figure it out on my own when i have stated earlier that i have not been able to wrap my head around it?

franugo:
Hmmmm so this is one of those let sleeping dogs lie situations....?

This is the resignation for someone who has given up of the quest for knowledge. Someone not ready to stretch the limits of their brain cells power. Someone who is not open minded, someone already with a defeatist attitude

Lukuluku69:
I like your choice of words with your statement. It is Apt.

For you to know you are on a red herring chase, take 100 Christians, give them a Bible (Just one version), read out a Chapter to them, bros I can guarantee you, you won't see 3-4 agreeing on anything. They never agree on anything because the ideas for the Faith are majorly Men ideas.

I am not holding brief for christians, so will leave christians, if they want, to come defend themselves

Lukuluku69:
Even the Nature of Jesus person was as confusing as it was even to the Disciples that he taught and walked with him. Jesus knowing this even asked his own disciples who do people think he was, he asked them who the disciples think he is!

Genesis 3:8-13
8Then the man and his wife heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the breeze of the day,
and they hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden.
9But the LORD God called out to the man, “Where are you?”
10“I heard Your voice in the garden,” he replied, “and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid myself.”
11“Who told you that you were naked?” asked the LORD God. “Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you not to eat?”
12And the man answered, “The woman whom You gave me, she gave me fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”
13Then the LORD God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?”
“The serpent deceived me,” she replied, “and I ate.”

Matthew 16:13-15
13When Jesus and his disciples were near the town of Caesarea Philippi, he asked them,
“What do people say about the Son of Man?”
14 The disciples answered,
“Some people say you are John the Baptist or maybe Elijah or Jeremiah or some other prophet.”
15Then Jesus asked, “But who do you say I am?”

Its part of God's modus operandi to pose questions at human beings to elicit from them self examination and self discovery answers

Other than the Matthew 16:15, that you made reference to (i.e. ... He asked them who the disciples think He is!), Genesis 3:8-13, that you equally see above, is another, case in point of the probing questioning style of God.

Posing effective probing questions provide the person you're asking with an opportunity to explore their thoughts and feelings on the particular subject. Since human beings, like to conceal themselves from themselves, then probing questioning is a good way of uncovering information in this regards

Millions saw the apple fall, but its Newton who asked, why. Ask the right questions, and the answers will reveal themselves.

Lukuluku69:
So, just let sleeping dog lie ooo. Unless you want to sample varied opinions about him.

Cheers!

Look at your hands, are the fingers all the same in sizes. Are they each and all equal in length.?
Of course, no. No, they arent.
Its by divine design. We all have different capacities, have different assimilation levels. Are at different altitude, and is the reason why the process of taking in and fully understanding information or ideas are varied, different or not the same.

franugo:
Why this kind of complicated response na?

Seemingly complicated question begets complicated response

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

NNTR:
This is the resignation for someone who has given up of the quest for knowledge. Someone not ready to stretch the limits of their brain cells power. Someone who is not open minded, someone already with a defeatist attitude

I am not holding brief for christians, so will leave christians, if they want, to come defend themselves

Genesis 3:8-13
8Then the man and his wife heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the breeze of the day,
and they hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden.
9But the LORD God called out to the man, “Where are you?”
10“I heard Your voice in the garden,” he replied, “and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid myself.”
11“Who told you that you were naked?” asked the LORD God. “Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you not to eat?”
12And the man answered, “The woman whom You gave me, she gave me fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”
13Then the LORD God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?”
“The serpent deceived me,” she replied, “and I ate.”

Matthew 16:13-15
13When Jesus and his disciples were near the town of Caesarea Philippi, he asked them,
“What do people say about the Son of Man?”
14 The disciples answered,
“Some people say you are John the Baptist or maybe Elijah or Jeremiah or some other prophet.”
15Then Jesus asked, “But who do you say I am?”

Its part of God's modus operandi to pose questions at human beings to elicit from them self examination and self discovery answers

Other than the Matthew 16:15, that you made reference to (i.e. ... He asked them who the disciples think He is!), Genesis 3:8-13, that you equally see above, is another, case in point of the probing questioning style of God.

Posing effective probing questions provide the person you're asking with an opportunity to explore their thoughts and feelings on the particular subject. Since human beings, like to conceal themselves from themselves, then probing questioning is a good way of uncovering information in this regards

Millions saw the apple fall, but its Newton who asked, why. Ask the right questions, and the answers will reveal themselves.

Look at your hands, are the fingers all the same in sizes. Are they each and all equal in length.?
Of course, no. No, they arent.
Its by divine design. We all have different capacities, have different assimilation levels. Are at different altitude, and is the reason why the process of taking in and fully understanding information or ideas are varied, different or not the same.

Seemingly complicated question begets complicated response

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

The Apple have been falling for only Heavens know how long. Of cos Millions must have seen it fall not asking why it fell and many must have asked the same question Isaac Newton asked but they never seemed it fit to write it down why it does fall down and not into space.

Isaac Newton never invented Gravity he only explained it. And his explanation did not change the fact that it has not been falling earth bound.

What am I trying to say? That Jesus had to ask his disciples what people took him for and afterwards what the disciples themselves think he was. In the two instances, what you get is varied answers. So, my initial submission that a lot of people were confused about Jesus nature and mission still holds then and now.

And if you think you can take on the Op question, please do but try as much as possible to appeal to Jesus words in explaining him to us.

franugo:
Hmmmm so this is one of those let sleeping dogs lie situations....?

There is no such thing as far as God is concerned. Question it all for that is the only way to arrive at His Truth. However, Jesus Christ said it is when you use the understanding you have that more understanding will be given you, meaning if you are simply looking for someone to give you the answer, you will gain nothing in the end.

Kobojunkiee:
Can you rephrase your question so we can maybe better understand where you are coming from.

Are you asking if Jesus Christ was begotten fully God's Son from even before He was born a human here on earth?

Or are you asking if Jesus Christ underwent some of transformation after He supposedly volunteered to come down as God's Covenant of peace in human form?

Merry Christmas Junkie

franugo:
I am looking for an answer to my question. How exactly would i figure it out on my own when i have stated earlier that i have not been able to wrap my head around it?

Keep trying to wrap your mind around it even with the new pointers and feelers suggested so you ensure you don't fall for lies at the end of this exercise.... use the understanding you have --- reason it all out--- and only the will more understand be given to you - Matthew 13 vs 12 & Mark 4 vs 22 - 24

advocatejare:

Merry Christmas Junkie

Merry Christmas!

Lukuluku69:
The Apple have been falling for only Heavens know how long. Of cos Millions must have seen it fall not asking why it fell and many must have asked the same question Isaac Newton asked but they never seemed it fit to write it down why it does fall down and not into space.

Well my beloved Muslim brother friend, the same question Isaac Newton asked, deemed fit to write down why it does fall down and not into space, and so in a rewarded manner, gets the credit for formulating the theory of universal gravity (i.e. universal law of gravitation)

Lukuluku69:
Isaac Newton never invented Gravity he only explained it. And his explanation did not change the fact that it has not been falling earth bound.

The subject raised by op, isnt about invention, but rather is about exploration (i.e. probing, seeking, searching out, finding out things et cetera), which is what Isaac Newton did

Lukuluku69:
What am I trying to say? That Jesus had to ask his disciples what people took him for and afterwards what the disciples themselves think he was. In the two instances, what you get is varied answers. So, my initial submission that a lot of people were confused about Jesus nature and mission still holds then and now.

Lessons to learn from Matthew 16:13-15 are:
#1. Dont follow the crowd, lead it. Dont ever let the crowd think for you. Be your own individual and think for yourself.
#2. Be careful when you blindly follow the masses, because often times, the masses are misled and even the 'm' in masses, is silent
#3. Do not imitate or copy what is trending for acceptance. Practice what is authentic
#4. Where there's shouting of general opinion, there's no true knowledge
#5. When you're asked who are you or asked something, and if you don't know or in your own words, cant tell, then the world will, not necessarily, to your advantage, will tell you.
#6. Do not let the opinion of others, define things for you. Define things yourself
#7. Do not let anyone put labels on you. Make your own labels yourself
#8. Jesus is not the opinion of someone who doesnt know Him, who, even, doesnt know Jesus as being God Incarnate.
#9 . Do not let someone dim your light, simply because its shinning in their eyes
#10. No one made a difference, by being like everyone else

Lukuluku69:
And if you think you can take on the Op question, please do but try as much as possible to appeal to Jesus words in explaining him to us.

As you saw from franugo op's response (i.e. why this kind of complicated response na?), huge amount of groundwork's required for a complete overhaul of the current impasse besetting op

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

NNTR:
Well my beloved Muslim brother friend, the same question Isaac Newton asked, deemed fit to write down why it does fall down and not into space, and so in a rewarded manner, gets the credit for formulating the theory of universal gravity (i.e. universal law of gravitation)

The subject raised by op, isnt about invention, but rather is about exploration (i.e. probing, seeking, searching out, finding out things et cetera), which is what Isaac Newton did

Lessons to learn from Matthew 16:13-15 are:
#1. Dont follow the crowd, lead it. Dont ever let the crowd think for you. Be your own individual and think for yourself.
#2. Be careful when you blindly follow the masses, because often times, the masses are misled and even the 'm' in masses, is silent
#3. Do not imitate or copy what is trending for acceptance. Practice what is authentic
#4. Where there's shouting of general opinion, there's no true knowledge
#5. When you're asked who are you or asked something, and if you don't know or in your own words, cant tell, then the world will, not necessarily, to your advantage, will tell you.
#6. Do not let the opinion of others, define things for you. Define things yourself
#7. Do not let anyone put labels on you. Make your own labels yourself
#8. Jesus is not the opinion of someone who doesnt know Him, who, even, doesnt know Jesus as being God Incarnate.
#9 . Do not let someone dim your light, simply because its shinning in their eyes
#10. No one made a difference, by being like everyone else

As you saw from franugo op's response (i.e. why this kind of complicated response na?), huge amount of groundwork foes required for a complete overhaul of the current impasse besetting op

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

Wonderfully spelt out.

The thing is, most of the "Label" affixed on the person of the Nazarene are Men ideas, they are Men concoctions.

As they were confused then, so are they now still.

Lukuluku69:
Wonderfully spelt out.

The thing is, most of the "Label" affixed on the person of the Nazarene are Men ideas, they are Men concoctions.

As they were confused then, so are they now still.

Apostle Peter wasnt confused, when he correctly said who he thought Jesus is, and Jesus, without hesitation, praised him and disclosed that it wasnt human reasoning that revealed to Apostle Peter who He, Jesus is (i.e. the Identity of Jesus).
He actually meant that Apostle Peter, didnt learn that fact, truth and reality from human beings, but the information was given to him directly by His Father in heaven (i.e. by the person who sent Him to earth)

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

NNTR:
Apostle Peter wasnt confused, when he correctly said who he thought Jesus is, and Jesus, without hesitation, praised him and disclosed that it wasnt human reasoning that revealed to Apostle Peter who He, Jesus is (i.e. the Identity of Jesus).
He actually meant that Apostle Peter, didnt learn that fact, truth and reality from human beings, but the information was given to him directly by His Father in heaven (i.e. by the person who sent Him to earth)

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

Apostle Peter was confused too!

When he gave that answer, Jesus called him The Devil!

You see, the story of Christ has so many versions.

The version you believe says Jesus praised him, the one I believed says Jesus called him the Devil for his words in describing Jesus.

So, going back to my earlier submission, what we have of the Nazarene are just borrowed garb men adorned him with.

Lukuluku69:
Apostle Peter was confused too!

The only person confused here, my beloved Muslim brother friend is you

Lukuluku69:
When he gave that answer, Jesus called him The Devil!

The personality, the spirit trying to influence Apostle Peter, is who Jesus was scolding by mentioning its name

Lukuluku69:
You see, the story of Christ has so many versions.

Doesnt stop the plan and work of God

Lukuluku69:
The version you believe says Jesus praised him, the one I believed says Jesus called him the Devil for his words in describing Jesus.

I would love you reproduce him verbatim both versions then for reviewing. Thanks

Lukuluku69:
So, going back to my earlier submission, what we have of the Nazarene are just borrowed garb men adorned him with.

Like the way the Koran pka Quran too borrowed from the Scriptures. Yes?

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

NNTR:
The only person confused here, my beloved Muslim brother friend is you

The personality, the spirit trying to influence Apostle Paul, is who Jesus was scolding by mentioning its name

Doesnt stop the plan and work of God

I would love you reproduce him verbatim both versions then for reviewing. Thanks

Like the way the Koran pka Quran too borrowed from the Scriptures. Yes?

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

My Christian friend, I hope you are not mistaking Peter for Paul?

Peter was the one Jesus called the Devil (...get thee behind me.....)

As for Paul, don't let me go there at all. He himself said he LIED to abound God's glory.

You and I know Jesus story has so many versions. This was spelt out by the writers of Gospel according to Luke in his opening "....for many have write.....and he too is writing to set the records straight.....

The Quran made use of the Jewish stories the same was the Jews made use of the Babylonians Tablets.

You must have heard of it surely?

You asked the Oo to do a thourogh research before coming to a conclusion, I will advise you do same.

Start with the many Gospel about Jesus life. What you are doing is just limiting yourself to the only four approved by those who lived hundreds of years from the stories.

Lukuluku69:
My Christian friend, I hope you are not mistaking Peter for Paul?

You're a Muslim, I dont know how you've taken me to be your Christian friend.
My hand didnt follow the instruction from my brain, which is the reason why it typed Paul, instead of Peter, but hey you got the gist anyway, so thats good

Lukuluku69:
Peter was the one Jesus called the Devil (...get thee behind me.....)

The spirit trying to influence Apostle Peter is the devil, and is who Jesus was reprimanding, just as I earlier advanced

Lukuluku69:
As for Paul, don't let me go there at all. He himself said he LIED to abound God's glory.

Shows that God is a forgiving God, and would forgive a contrite heart

Lukuluku69:
You and I know Jesus story has so many versions.

I reiterate, it doesnt stop the plan and work of God

Lukuluku69:
This was spelt out by the writers of Gospel according to Luke in his opening "....for many have write.....and he too is writing to set the records straight.....

Not a crime to do, is it?

Lukuluku69:
The Quran made use of the Jewish stories the same was the Jews made use of the Babylonians Tablets.

So you admit the Quran helped itself to the Bible's pass me down

Lukuluku69:
You must have heard of it surely?

Lukuluku69:
You asked the Oo to do a thourogh research before coming to a conclusion, I will advise you do same.

Before coming to what conclusion exactly?

Lukuluku69:
Start with the many Gospel about Jesus life.

What exactly is the contention here please?

Lukuluku69:
What you are doing is just limiting yourself to the only four approved by those who lived hundreds of years from the stories.

I guess you're mystic Meg, you have a crystal ball. Right?

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

franugo:
Any comment is welcome cause it's not clear to me. Was it the selfless act of volunteering to die for humans that made him son of God or did God create him specially, to be his son instead of the way he created normal angels?

John 17:1-5, Jesus said yes! God is his Father & Jesus is his Father's son in heaven before Jesus earthly ministry.
Galatians 4:4 & Romans 8:3, Paul also says yes!

Colossians 1:15, first born of every creature.
Yes.
Is first born of every son still a son?
Yes !
Genesis 49:3 & Colossians 1:15 is the word "firstborn" meaning the same thing?

Yes!.