Why do you all refer to yourselves as this? I think it is demeaning.

Everytime a white person labels africans they go using the word thinking it makes them sound smart. It doesnt. It shows ignorance.

I propose that on this forum, everyone use the word "Greater Africa" if they are going to divide africa at all.

It is a racist, outdated term with no historical significance.

i dont really care, but i understand why others might find it offensive.

however, the sahara does divide western and northwestern africa geographically as well as in the area of demographics.

the people above and below the sahara are different, especially in most areas.

thats just not true.

Civilizations that are in todays Chad(Kanem empire) have also existed with boundaries in Libya.

The Ghana was rumored to have been defeated by the Ahmavarid(sp?) dynasty in Morocco during the medieval ages.

Senegal had a strong relatonship with morroco.

Sudan ruled Egypt for hundreds of years, and egyptians were black.

Carthage was in Tunisia.

Songhai(Mali) was the center of learning for all of WEST and NORTH africa.

So besides what the white man says, what supports the idea of the sahara as a boundary? Fulani and Taureg are found in most African countries.

^^let's leave what the white man is saying.

north africa is majorly white while subsaharan africa [or any applicable term] is not.

that's the general picture, and neither is being black necessarily a bad thing unless some want to make it so.

north africa is majorly white

I often see North Africans and mistake them for mulattos or black people, so idk where u get that from. At any rate, I have not seen a white person amongst even the racist rebels in libya.

Did you see the movie inception? The part that took place in "Kenya" was actually filmed in Morocco, and I believe specifically Cassablanca. Dont believe me? Read the credits.

@ topic

i do see your point however.

BlackLibya:

I often see North Africans and mistake them for mulattos or black people, so idk where u get that from. At any rate, I have not seen a white person amongst even the racist rebels in libya.

Did you see the movie inception? The part that took place in "Kenya" was actually filmed in Morocco, and I believe specifically Cassablanca. Dont believe me? Read the credits.

was wondering about the flat roofs and narrow streets, which are more typical of maghreb countries.


north africans [berbers] have white skin and black features [not always in a biracial manner though].

dont know how to better explain it.


they're white because their ancestors are classified as white and they also have phoenician links in addition to the arab one.

Lol my point with that was that the people were so black that my friend from Kenya thought i was making it up!

But the reason they have West African or in some places Nilo-Saharan/Somali features is because that's what they are mixed with.

Look at the Yemenis. Alot of them have Nubian/Ethiopian features, when we look at history, we find out that Axum extended all the way to Yemen.

So they may consider themselves Arabs but they still have black blood in their veins.

Berbers can consider themselves white, but they are still mixed. And a Lebanese or Syrian would not place them on equal footing, it shows in the geopolitics of the region. Even Ghaddafi who was Bedouin, has strong black features, one of the main reasons the Arabs hated him.

I Get your point. I use it sometimes also to signify that part of africa with a greater concentration of dark skinned peoples, doesn't mean dark skinned people are not plenteous in and above the Sahara.

Just part of the baggage that came with using other people's language and their description of you.

Berbers can consider themselves white, but they are still mixed. And a Lebanese or Syrian would not place them on equal footing, it shows in the geopolitics of the region

even the white north africans dont place each other on an equal footing.

one of the major things most of them have in common is a dislike of blacks.

outside of that, they dont really care to be grouped together that much.

one of the major things most of them have in common is a dislike of blacks.

Thats kind of funnny because I remember seeing an interview with a Taureg who said they thought of themselves as white, and "other" black africans as black. Idk if it was a mistranslation, but there is no way they can still feel that way after libya. They are being hunted down just like all the rest of us.

^^i meant the non-tuareg [white skinned] north africans.

tuaregs are sort of in-between because they range from white to black.

maghreb


Origins


The inhabitants of the region are predominantly "Arab-Berbers" but this term implies a complete fusion of the two groups which is not the case. Whereas Arabs and Berbers, united through Islam are the main ethnic and cultural elements, it is important to bear in mind that over the centuries the Maghreb has been a melting-pot of many other ethnic groups and cultures. Before the Arab conquest Phoenicians, Greeks, Romans, Vandals, and Byzantines colonized the Maghreb and contributed to the development of its culture. Later, moriscos and muladies, that is, indigenous Spaniards who had earlier converted to the Muslim faith and were fleeing, together with ethnic Arab and Berber Muslims, from the Catholic Reconquista settled to the Maghreb. Among West Asians are Turks who came over with the expansion of the Ottoman Empire. A small Turkish descended population exists, particularly in Tunisia and Algeria. Other European contributions included French, Italians, and others captured by the corsairs and then turned into slaves.[7]

Nowadays, a majority of the current population in the Maghreb consider themselves generally Arab in identity, regardless of mixed ethnic or linguistic heritage. There are significant non-Arab or non-Arab identifying populations in the region and most important of the non-Arab populations found throughout the Maghreb, particularly in Morocco and Algeria, are the Berbers. They represented the majority of the pre-Islamic population. After the arrival of Islamic Arabs, Berbers assimilated in large numbers to Arab or mixed Arab-Berber ethnic identities.

Historically the Maghreb was also home to significant Jewish communities, including the Maghrebim Jews, who predated the 7th century introduction and conversion of the majority of Berbers to Islam. Under the Almohad dynasty rule in the 12th century, the Jews were forced to convert en masse to Islam.[8] Later largely augmented by Spanish Sephardi Jews, fleeing the Spanish Catholic Reconquista, established a presence in North Africa, chiefly in the urban trading centers. They have contributed to the wider population through conversion and assimilation. Many Sephardic Jews emigrated to North America in the early 20th century or to France and Israel later in the 20th century.

On the Saharan southern edge of the Maghreb are large communities of black populations




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maghreb_people

black libya i think you are 100% spot on - this sub saharan tag is used by the white supremacist as code for "black africa" - everything they do is based on dividing people up into groups based on race, religion, language etc but race is one of their favourites, they use these divisions for their divide and rule games which are designed to suit their own insidious purposes.

I've read/heard that none of the North African countries has an accurate census because it would reveal that black skinned people are actually the majority of the population. I cannot vouch for this claim though. What is certain is that black people make up at least 1/3rd and possibly half of the populations of these countries but their Arab-dominated governments deliberately conceal this. This is why we only see the blacks in their national teams during soccer competitions.

Unfortunately, most of the blacks in these societies have been brain-washed and indoctrinated by Islam to accept their subordinate status and follow the orders of the Arabs unquestioningly.

Also, slavery existed in most of North Africa until the 1950s and '60s. It still exists in Mauritania.

I really doubt blacks are the majority in north african countries.

tpia@:

I really doubt blacks are the majority in north african countries.

Go deep into the countryside in the Magreb versus the major cities to get an accurate look at the phenotype of North Africa.

There is a greater porportion of the 800 million inhabitants of the continent that is evidently what is refed to as "black", however there are also dominant elements of other ethnic groups that have inhabited the continent enough time to be considered indigenous.

THe "SUB' part in sub sahara is probably the main issue as it denotes some sort of under class, which is why some people prefer to define it as "GREATER" or Tropical AAfrica to highlight the differences between both so called regions.Mind you Not all of sia is inhabited by one class of people therefore they too have different versions of what is defined as "Asian"
It really is inperception so call it what you want it really doesn't make that much of a dfiffernce as long as we all know what is being referd to here

all i know is that both "whites" and Arabs are full of poo, especially Arabs. they can kiss my black arse anytime they want. i don't blame them for anything they do against blacks becos it is Blacks who are not united and dignified enough to let them know who's boss.

The term "sub-saharan Africa" is probably just a slick way to avoid saying "black Africa." If a white person in a Western country, while discussing Africa with other Westerners, wants to criticize black Africa's (lack of?) progress without sounding as if they're "racializing" the discussion or making it a racial issue, then they would probably want to opt for a seemingly more neutral, and apparently geographical term. It's obvious that black Africa is what is being referred to of course. My point is that this label is possibly just a product of political correctness.


I actually kind of like the sound of "black Africa" though and definitely prefer it to sub-saharan Africa.

Black africa sounds too much like darkest africa and not everyone would like to be called black anyway.

The horners for example might not want to be grouped with bantus who make up the bulk of what's known as subsaharan africa.

And they are identified based on their location also, which is the horn of africa.

So, the whole thing isnt as easy as it looks.

And they are identified based on their location also, which is the horn of africa.

It depends on what we are talking about, which is more reason to NOT like the term sub-saharan. If we are talking about Ethiopia defeating the Italians, or Christianity, or how they have one of the oldest writing systems in the world, we will hear of Ethiopia as the "Horn of Africa". But as soon as we mention poverty, AIDS, war, famine, or anything else, Ethiopia joins "sub-saharan Africa".

In the same token, countries like Botswana, South Africa, and often Rwanda now, are not usually mentioned along with the term "sub saharan africa". Any country that is successful or peaceful falls out of the category, while all things negative go in.

That's why I'd rather call it "greater africa" if we are going to disrespect it by giving all the mediterranean countries separate names but always referring to everything else as a clump.