Jamesclooney:


That’s not the point sir! I don’t care about public or private system. What was available to me in Nigeria vs what is available to me now? This was what led to the debate on Twitter on healthcare systems. Lord knows, where I will want to be if I need dental care for example. Or the kid I saw that sprained his ankle in school and was in A&E for hours on end. Even paracetamol they didn’t give this boy. Almighty “triage” didn’t prioritize the schoolboy even with the swollen leg for many hours. I know where I’ll rather be if I was the injured school boy.

There's also private healthcare in the UK that will allow you to see a doctor and get a procedure you need pronto. That's what you must compare with private healthcare anywhere else.

Jamesclooney:


That’s not the point sir! I don’t care about public or private system. What was available to me in Nigeria vs what is available to me now? This was what led to the debate on Twitter on healthcare systems. Lord knows, where I will want to be if I need dental care for example. Or the kid I saw that sprained his ankle in school and was in A&E for hours on end. Even paracetamol they didn’t give this boy. Almighty “triage” didn’t prioritize the schoolboy even with the swollen leg for many hours. I know where I’ll rather be if I was the injured school boy.

Unfortunately, if that was my son..... I would be an advocate for him in that A&E department, I would not just sit like a statue........

I would give you a personal experience....... My son had a moment of syncope at school(banged his head), his grammar school phoned me to come pick him up.... I demanded they called an ambulance, to take my son to an A&E department (that i would meet them at the local hospital).......

After meeting my son at the A&E department, after all triage and bloods taken, no immediate alarms got flagged....... My son was going to be discharged, I asked them what the procedure was on incidents involving head hitting the floor.... I was told all sorts of medical magical terms (I listened very patiently)........

I insisted my son had a CT scan of his head, to rule out any bleeding(objections were raised)........ Guess what ..... My son had the CT head .......

I also requested a 24 hour tape........ 🤣😂

My point is, don't just sit and wait, demand what you want.........

Goodenoch:


There's also private healthcare in the UK that will allow you to see a doctor and get a procedure you need pronto. That's what you must compare with private healthcare anywhere else.

What he is failing to comprehend is, the UK health sector also got a tier system (capitalist society)....... Why would private health care services/insurance be available, if the NHS was FANTASTIC.......😁🤣

Lexusgs430:



What he is failing to comprehend is, the UK health sector also got a tier system (capitalist society)....... Why would private health care services/insurance be available, if the NHS was FANTASTIC.......😁🤣

Not true sir. I have experienced the NHS 15yrs ago, it wasn’t like this, hence reason for the proliferation of private insurance etc. And reason the govt of the day is getting hammered. But if they read all your comments, they would be very happy with the NHS and decide to do nothing a.k.a. “the plan is working”. Call a spade a spade, not a gardening tool. Something radical needs to happen to save the people dying needlessly from waiting room delays.

Goodenoch:


If you spent 2PM to 10PM waiting for medical assistance in an A & E and you're still alive to write about it today, it proves the point that your case wasn't an emergency, and that the HCPs were right to prioritise other patients over you following their triage.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-13258925/amp/casualty-waits-NHS-dire-deaths-study.html

“It comes after a shocking study today suggested dire waits in A&E for hospital beds caused more than 250 needless deaths a week last year, with patients forced to wait in crowded rooms and corridors or on trolleys.”

I guess it wasn’t an emergency for the 250 people A WEEK that died needlessly last year. Some comments are so careless. Because nothing happened to me, the system is perfect. I hear you.

Jamesclooney:


Not true sir. I have experienced NHS 15yrs ago, it wasn’t like this, reason for the proliferation of private insurance etc. And reason the govt of the day is getting hammered. But if they read all your comments, they would be very happy with the NHS and decide to do nothing aka “the plan is working”. Call a spade a spade, not a gardening tool.

I mentioned it on this thread a few years ago, that the NHS is/was failing.......

Oga, I fully agree with you and many others on the point above.......

My point is, under Labour 14 + years ago people complained about the NHS, this complain patterns unfortunately got worse under conservatives ........

We all have to agree that when the NHS was setup in 1948, it was not meant to carry the sort of heavy loads, it's having to lift in our present day ........

Lexusgs430:


Unfortunately, if that was my son..... I would be an advocate for him in that A&E department, I would not just sit like a statue........

I would give you a personal experience....... My son had a moment of syncope at school(banged his head), his grammar school phoned me to come pick him up.... I demanded they called an ambulance, to take my son to an A&E department (that i would meet them at the local hospital).......

After meeting my son at the A&E department, after all triage and bloods taken, no immediate alarms got flagged....... My son was going to be discharged, I asked them what the procedure was on incidents involving head hitting the floor.... I was told all sorts of medical magical terms (I listened very patiently)........

I insisted my son had a CT scan of his head, to rule out any bleeding(objections were raised)........ Guess what ..... My son had the CT head .......

I also requested a 24 hour tape........ 🤣😂

My point is, don't just sit and wait, demand what you want.........

Did you get the tape?

missjekyll:


Did you get the tape?

Absolutely...... I am like an Ijebu man, to ikokore and garri.........😂

Zahra29:


The bolded is one of the reasons the Tories will lose the election - because many people remember how much better the NHS was 15/20 years ago before the Tories came in and started defunding public services.

One of Labour's key pledges is to improve/transform the NHS ,including waiting lists, so no-one is saying we settle for things remaining as they are.

Cases are usually triaged and urgent/life threatening cases (and minors) are not left waiting in A&E or on 2 year waiting lists. Anyone here been diagnosed with cancer or diabetes or hepatitis or sickle cell or heart disease etc etc and had to wait 2 years to start treatment?

The NHS isn't perfect, I completely agree, and there is an element of post code lottery that determines the quality of treatment some areas receive, which isn't fair.

However, on the whole it is very good considering the limited resources and increasing pressures it is faced with.

Sorry to burst this bubble,Zahra . Even cancer now has a waiting list. The NHS you obviously love is not there anymore.

I do believe we can get most of it back. It's the best thing about the UK.

Lexusgs430:



What he is failing to comprehend is, the UK health sector also got a tier system (capitalist society)....... Why would private health care services/insurance be available, if the NHS was FANTASTIC.......😁🤣

I think this is one of the truest points made so far on this discussion - the capitalist tier system. Simple. It exists in the UK too, surprisingly though.

Many of us who left to the UK recently (and those already in the UK for a while) belong (ed) to a privileged class in Nigeria who enjoyed health insurance so we generally got tier 1 services and used to that already.

I'm privileged to have all my working experience in the banking sector in Nigeria and enjoyed the best of Mansard with my family... Just like many others in that class.

So if one can pay top quid here in the UK, I believe one can still get prompt medical attention. The civil servants and lower class in Nigeria also experience long waiting hours in UCH and other lower private hospitals, longer queues than the NHS UK.

So this comparison is actually relative. I want to believe biggest boys here in UK would still enjoy the best of medial services as long as they can pay for it while the talawakas wait for NHS.

Mamatukwas:


I’ve experienced both. Healthcare in the US is elite and premium but the billing is also premium. Pray that whatever you do, you never fall seriously ill in the US or require intensive care without insurance. Your own is all over.

The fear about the American healthcare system is largely exaggerated. While some nations have a better system, Americans are not dropping dead in the street.

We're talking about a nation that has been at the fore of technological development financial conquest over the last 50 years. Our free Healthcare is paid for via higher taxes + NI.

Yes, many would need insurance in the US but the excess is capped and there are many groups which are exempt.Many middle income and high wage earners would see their take home double for an equivalent role in the US while paying less tax. Housing is relatively cheaper. Many jobs come with health insurance and even if one has to pay out of pocket for a family insurance policy, it manytimes would work out much cheaper than the higher tax paid here. Also, because their ervices are paid for and system flush with funds, services are prompt and manytimes push the boundaries of knowledge.
Europe/UK OTOH is a much better deal for lower income earners as there is a robust safety net.

Both systems have their pros and cons. Reason why many Brits jump at the opportunity of heading to the US. The Australian system seems to be a hybrid between both.

ehizario2012:


I think this is one of the truest points made so far on this discussion - the capitalist tier system. Simple. It exists in the UK too, surprisingly though.

Many of us who left to the UK recently (and those already in the UK for a while) belong (ed) to a privileged class in Nigeria who enjoyed health insurance so we generally got tier 1 services and used to that already.

I'm privileged to have all my working experience in the banking sector in Nigeria and enjoyed the best of Mansard with my family... Just like many others in that class.

So if one can pay top quid here in the UK, I believe one can still get prompt medical attention. The civil servants and lower class in Nigeria also experience long waiting hours in UCH and other lower private hospitals, longer queues than the NHS UK.

So this comparison is actually relative. I want to believe biggest boys here in UK would still enjoy the best of medial services as long as they can pay for it while the talawakas wait for NHS.

I could not put it any better....... If an NHS patient requires a knee operation, that patient could be waiting weeks/months/years.......

Same patient above requires a knee operation, but luckily got private medical insurance..... The operation would be carried out within days (assuming all consultations, consents and checks) are conducted and patient is good to go......

jedisco:


The fear about the American healthcare system is largely exaggerated. While some nations have a better system, Americans are not dropping dead in the street.

We're talking about a nation that has been at the fore of technological development financial conquest over the last 50 years. Our free Healthcare is paid for via higher taxes + NI.

Yes, many would need insurance in the US but the excess is capped and there are many groups which are exempt.Many middle income and high wage earners would see their take home double for an equivalent role in the US while paying less tax. Housing is relatively cheaper. Many jobs come with health insurance and even if one has to pay out of pocket for a family insurance policy, it manytimes would work out much cheaper than the higher tax paid here. Also, because their ervices are paid for and system flush with funds, services are prompt and manytimes push the boundaries of knowledge.
Europe/UK OTOH is a much better deal for lower income earners as there is a robust safety net.

Both systems have their pros and cons. Reason why many Brits jump at the opportunity of heading to the US. The Australian system seems to be a hybrid between both.

Name one country that is running an NHS health structure......... 😁

FREE at the point of DELIVERY........

missjekyll:


Sorry to burst this bubble,Zahra . Even cancer now has a waiting list. The NHS you obviously love is not there anymore.

I do believe we can get most of it back. It's the best thing about the UK.

Cancer now has a 2 year waiting list to start treatment? Okay.

I have a very close relative who is receiving pioneering preventative cancer treatment - the drugs alone would cost over £50k out of pocket, not to mention the regular MRI, PET and CT scans. This is a retired lady who doesn't have private insurance, who has received years of cancer treatment and various types of surgeries on the NHS, from world class doctors, and never once had to pay a penny. She is thriving thank God. Similar treatments would have been unaffordable in the US and unavailable in Nigeria because their medical system mostly caters for routine/non complex conditions.

For this and many other reasons, I love the NHS. I know it's not perfect, there is definitely a lot of room for improvement but I agree with you that it represents the best of the UK and I believe it will get better.

jedisco:


The fear about the American healthcare system is largely exaggerated. While some nations have a better system, Americans are not dropping dead in the street.

We're talking about a nation that has been at the fore of technological development financial conquest over the last 50 years. Our free Healthcare is paid for via higher taxes + NI.

Yes, many would need insurance in the US but the excess is capped and there are many groups which are exempt.Many middle income and high wage earners would see their take home double for an equivalent role in the US while paying less tax. Housing is relatively cheaper. Many jobs come with health insurance and even if one has to pay out of pocket for a family insurance policy, it manytimes would work out much cheaper than the higher tax paid here. Also, because their ervices are paid for and system flush with funds, services are prompt and manytimes push the boundaries of knowledge.
Europe/UK OTOH is a much better deal for lower income earners as there is a robust safety net.

Both systems have their pros and cons. Reason why many Brits jump at the opportunity of heading to the US. The Australian system seems to be a hybrid between both.

Funny that, there are numerous Reddit threads of Americans who have moved to Europe to access the cheaper healthcare. I don't know m(any) Brits who have moved to the US solely to use their healthcare.

Jamesclooney:


Not true sir. I have experienced NHS 15yrs ago, it wasn’t like this, reason for the proliferation of private insurance etc. And reason the govt of the day is getting hammered. But if they read all your comments, they would be very happy with the NHS and decide to do nothing aka “the plan is working”. Call a spade a spade, not a gardening tool.

I see your point.
Fact is that any free service left long enough would be abused. Couple that with the rising entitlement and dwindling fortunes of the UK and you get the reason the NHS is where it is.

The NHS as currently structured can deal with most health concerns. What it'd struggle to deal with is the expectation.

Take 111/GP and ED attendances for instance, if a £10 token was billed on each episode of care, I can assure you the need coming through would fall by a chunk. The issue becomes how to protect vulnerable groups who without causing a situation similar to the 'sick note culture'.

I am a proponent of free healthcare at the point of service and appreciate the NHS but there are drawbacks to such a system which can be difficult deal with.

Zahra29:


Funny that, there are numerous Reddit threads of Americans who have moved to Europe to access the cheaper health care, including medication.

It goes both ways and largely depend on the side of the divide they are on.

Reddit is also littered with Tech heads in the UK looking to jump ship and 3x their take home or American companies paying their UK employees less than half of what the pay for similar roles in the US. Also many UK medical students writing American licensing exams and jumping ship or actively planning towards CAN/AUS. Even when comparing attainment of immigrants, the US leads for a reason.

Many Americans in the UK get flustered by the relatively poor pay, high tax and long wait times for healthcare we have become accustomed to.
The social safetynet in the EU/UK is brilliant but for many hardly trumps the capitalist bull the US has become.

jedisco:


It goes both ways and largely depend on the side of the divide they are on.

Reddit is also littered with Tech heads in the UK looking to jump ship and 3x their take home or American companies paying their UK employees less than half of what the pay for similar roles in the US. Also many UK medical students writing American licensing exams and jumping ship or actively planning towards CAN/AUS. Even when comparing attainment of immigrants, the US leads for a reason.

Many Americans in the UK get flustered by the relatively poor pay, high tax and long wait times for healthcare we have become accustomed to.
The social safetynet in the EU/UK is brilliant but for many hardly trumps the capitalist bull the US has become.

Fair enough....I guess the many thousands of American households that have been bankrupted due to healthcare bills or have lost their top paying jobs and accompanying health cover, were not bullish enough

To each their own. I remain grateful for the safetynet in Europe where I don't have to check my bank balance before going to the hospital, but I also have the option to pay for private medical insurance if I want expedited or special treatment.

Lexusgs430:


Unfortunately, if that was my son..... I would be an advocate for him in that A&E department, I would not just sit like a statue........

I would give you a personal experience....... My son had a moment of syncope at school(banged his head), his grammar school phoned me to come pick him up.... I demanded they called an ambulance, to take my son to an A&E department (that i would meet them at the local hospital).......

After meeting my son at the A&E department, after all triage and bloods taken, no immediate alarms got flagged....... My son was going to be discharged, I asked them what the procedure was on incidents involving head hitting the floor.... I was told all sorts of medical magical terms (I listened very patiently)........

I insisted my son had a CT scan of his head, to rule out any bleeding(objections were raised)........ Guess what ..... My son had the CT head .......

I also requested a 24 hour tape........ 🤣😂

My point is, don't just sit and wait, demand what you want.........

Hehe.. true that sometimes pushing sensibly and complaints can get folks on their feet. However, your post also highlights a main reason why we have long waits. People making unlimited demands off a 'free' service with a limited purse.

Offering investigations because a patient wants it is hardly the hallmark of a good health system. Same issue the US grapples with only that in their case, more scans = more money.

Inappropriate investigations also has it's downsides. Yes, we hear of sad stories or those who pushed and 'proved the doctors wrong' but there is a longer list of harms done by not justifying investigations within the norms of current practice.

Things like head injury have clear guidance on who to scan. There could be grey areas but subjecting every child who bangs the head to a head scan is poor care.

jedisco:


Hehe.. true that sometimes pushing sensibly and complaints can get folks on their feet. However, your post also highlights a main reason why we have long waits. People making unlimited demands off a 'free' service with a limited purse.

Offering investigations because a patient wants it is hardly the hallmark of a good health system. Same issue the US grapples with only that in their case, more scans = more money.

Inappropriate investigations also has it's downsides. Yes, we hear of sad stories or those who pushed and 'proved the doctors wrong' but there is a longer list of harms done by not justifying investigations within the norms of current practice.

Things like head injury have clear guidance on who to scan. There could be grey areas but subjecting every child who bangs the head to a head scan is poor care.

So how would I know if my son sustained internal head injuries, from banging his head (that caused massive injuries to his lips and face) ...... By looking through his eyes or rubbing holy oil on his forehead...... 👀😂


Would I forgive myself if my son suffered from internal bleeding, if I refused to insist on the CT head, due to your position above...... I am asking a honest question.......

Zahra29:


Fair enough....I guess the many thousands of American households that have been bankrupted due to healthcare bills or have lost their top paying jobs and accompanying health cover, were not bullish enough

To each their own. I remain grateful for the safetynet in Europe where I don't have to check my bank balance before going to the hospital, but I also have the option to pay for private medical insurance if I want expedited or special treatment.

Like I said, the fears are almost always well exaggerated for the most part just like the way many Nigerians back home dread the concept of 'tax' or bills (as they call it) without understanding the system abroad. It's part of British culture to whinge and exaggerate certain issues.
Even some EU nations e.g France pay for care. I had seen a French lady in the past who was elated at having free service and told me at this point back home she'd be pulling out her card. Same also, a co-workers pregnant relative had to be taken into ED while travelling in France and was very happy at how quickly it all went.

The NHS is pushing on today cos its absorbing many doctors and nurses from abroad (at a point even exceeding local grads). There are local and international effects of that. Your free healthcare has far reaching consequences.

As a man living in a small town where there is no hospital and where the doctors and nurses would be the ones to book appointments for me without waiting. I’d say the NHS is near perfect. As NHS staff, I’d say it is not perfect. Different experience. The biggest problem in this UK in my personal opinion is all their laws have many loopholes, the citizens fully understand that loopholes. People abuse too many things in this country. When I first came to this country, I wondered how cigarettes kill people, and my grandpa died at 102 and smoked till that age. Then I had a 60+ year-old colleague who stopped smoking recently because he's been diagnosed with one lung disease and was offered every alternative but still went back to smoking cigarettes. My grandpa never smoked 5 a day, but my colleague was smoking 2 bloody packs and recently a pack after he was diagnosed with lung disease. You hardly see people in the UK who smoke less than one pack a day. All of these people are heading to the NHS. Back home, if you get drunk, you are probably taking a week off drinking. These people are in pubs every day, and when shit happens, it is NHS. I may be wrong, but personally, I feel there are more alcohol- and drug-related road accidents in the UK than in Nigeria. All these people are running to the NHS; who are these drunkards? You will find out that it is mostly people with one form of free money from the government. Just more to say and no time. Another thing is, I was eating out for two weeks (it's burgers and shit) and added massive weight. That was when I knew it’s easier to add weight than to lose it. My point is, this country is full of people who should be living healthy but refuse to, and they know their health care is free. Before, I used to say that if I were the prime minister, I’d actually make those who choose an unhealthy lifestyle pay for their own care. Until I see people sue each other for inhaling third-party smoking that leads to asthma, I laugh at myself. Working in healthcare is just a significant mistake from losing everything. People living unhealthy are making it difficult for people who needs genuine care. Why would a patient on oxygen nipped out for a faaaag? It is just crazy here

Lexusgs430:


So how would I know if my son sustained internal head injuries, from banging his head (that caused massive injuries to his lips and face) ...... By looking through his eyes or rubbing holy oil on his forehead...... 👀😂


Would I forgive myself if my son suffered from internal bleeding, if I refused to insist on the CT head, due to your position above...... I am asking a honest question.......

I'm in support of you advocating for the scan for your child because you can never be too careful with children, I don't see this as a waste of NHS resources.

What I'm not in support of is people demanding full MOT blood tests from their GP just because they paid the IHS or showing up at A&E with a sprained ankle and expecting to be seen immediately :|

Apt!!!

jedisco:


I see your point.
Fact is that any free service left long enough would be abused. Couple that with the rising entitlement and dwindling fortunes of the UK and you get the reason the NHS is where it is.

The NHS as currently structured can deal with most health concerns. What it'd struggle to deal with is the expectation.

Take 111/GP and ED attendances for instance, if a £10 token was billed on each episode of care, I can assure you the need coming through would fall by a chunk. The issue becomes how to protect vulnerable groups who without causing a situation similar to the 'sick note culture'.

I am a proponent of free healthcare at the point of service and appreciate the NHS but there are drawbacks to such a system which can be difficult deal with.

Zahra29:


I'm in support of you advocating for the scan for your child because you can never be too careful with children, I don't see this as a waste of NHS resources.

What I'm not in support of is people demanding full MOT blood tests from their GP just because they paid the IHS or showing up at A&E with a sprained ankle and expecting to be seen immediately :|

Let's put our professional hat to one side, then put our ethical hat to the other side and our family ties hat on the other .......

I know the hat I would be lifting, others can choose another type of hat ........

Lexusgs430:


So how would I know if my son sustained internal head injuries, from banging his head (that caused massive injuries to his lips and face) ...... By looking through his eyes or rubbing holy oil on his forehead...... 👀😂


Would I forgive myself if my son suffered from internal bleeding, if I refused to insist on the CT head, due to your position above...... I am asking a honest question.......

Except if it was in the grey area and the clinicians were already considering one, I would be questioning the rationale behind them offering a CT head after having initially declined. If their reason for not offering one in the first place was because you didn't ask, then that'd be worrying.


Just like with many things e.g antibiotics for children, not every child with a fever needs one.

If your question is indeed honest, then the link below forms the framework on which most clinicians in ED would decide if to scan or not (same also radiologists in accepting a scan for the most part). It's a guideline not law but the protocol here tends to be very clear in most EDs to protect both patients and clinicians. Have a look and knowing the full facts, you can decide if it fits or not.

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/ng232/resources/imaging-algorithm-pdf-13061125549&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwjPoKnK2YuGAxUcSvEDHb_yAlgQFnoECAUQAg&usg=AOvVaw1lS_Ztm_7qM5guF81C4vmk

jedisco:


Like I said, the fears are almost always well exaggerated for the most part just like the way many Nigerians back home dread the concept of 'tax' or bills (as they call it) without understanding the system abroad. It's part of British culture to whinge and exaggerate certain issues.
Even some EU nations e.g France pay for care. I had seen a French lady in the past who was elated at having free service and told me at this point back home she'd be pulling out her card. Same also, a co-workers pregnant relative had to be taken into ED while travelling in France and was very happy at how quickly it all went.

The NHS is pushing on today cos its absorbing many doctors and nurses from abroad (at a point even exceeding local grads). There are local and international effects of that. Your free healthcare has far reaching consequences.

Any desirable country will attract doctors and nurses from abroad who are seeking a better life, more money and a superior professional experience and opportunities. The NHS is not unique in this.

You seem to be pushing for the privatisation of the NHS which goes against its ethos and founding principles ,so no thanks. Private healthcare is available for those who choose/are able to pay. The NHS should remain "free" , (and I say this as someone who has gold private healthcare from work that also covers my family) but needs to find ways to become more efficient e.g. slimming down their management force, more conservative contracts etc

jedisco:


Except if it was in the grey area and the clinicians were already considering one, I would be questioning the rationale behind them offering a CT head after having initially declined. If their reason for not offering one in the first place was because you didn't ask, then that'd be worrying.


Just like with many things e.g antibiotics for children, not every child with a fever needs one.

If your question is indeed honest, then the link below forms the framework on which most clinicians in ED would decide if to scan or not. (Same also radiologists in accepting a scan for the most part). It's a guideline not law but the protocol here tends to be very clear in most EDs to protect both patients and clinicians. Have a look and knowing the full facts, you can decide if it fits or not.

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/ng232/resources/imaging-algorithm-pdf-13061125549&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwjPoKnK2YuGAxUcSvEDHb_yAlgQFnoECAUQAg&usg=AOvVaw1lS_Ztm_7qM5guF81C4vmk

This exactly is the reason why some people die needlessly...... This tick box system of clinicians weighing cost vs benefits........

When my family is involved, the tick box system gets burnt....... 🔥🔥🔥🔥😁🤣

Jamesclooney:


I have personally spent time in A&E from 2pm to 10pm. Then you’ll either go private or book a flight abroad. Let’s not even talk about dental care. SMH

A&E is not a first come first serve place. Sometimes your cases are better handled by 111 or walk-in center. Fortunately, the HCP after accessing you knows what level of emergency your case is.

I'm not trying to downplay your case, but ask yourself this; when you arrived by 2pm, were you left unattended till 10pm or it was after the initial assessment that you started waiting?

Also stop comparing NHS with other countries' private health sector, compare with their public sector too.

Zahra29:


Any desirable country will attract doctors and nurses from abroad who are seeking a better life, more money and a superior professional experience and opportunities. The NHS is not unique in this.

You seem to be pushing for the privatisation of the NHS which goes against its ethos and founding principles ,so no thanks. Private healthcare is available for those who choose/are able to pay. The NHS should remain "free" , but needs to find ways to become more efficient e.g. slimming down their management force, more conservative contracts etc

The common principle of Labour drifting to an environment, where labour is properly rewarded comes to play.........

Any politician/political party that advocates 100% privatisation of the NHS sector........ Would NEVER smell power again, for the foreseeable future .......😂😁

Lexusgs430:


This exactly is the reason why some people die needlessly...... This tick box system of clinicians weighing cost vs benefits........

When my family is involved, the tick box system gets burnt....... 🔥🔥🔥🔥😁🤣

Hehe.. its not tickbox but good care. There has to be an accepted and regulated practice. It's the hallmark of any functional healthcare system or else any person/clinician would do as they see fit and justify their actions. It also serves as a standard to both protect and hold people accountable.
Remember I added the statement 'guidelines not law (or tramlines like some put it)'? There are many grey areas where clinical work could deviate but the bulk should be within a recognised framework.

I've worked in a system without a recognised framework where every clinician does whatever they see fit and I can tell you it's far worse with more significantly more needless deaths.

Lexusgs430:


The common principle of Labour drifting to an environment, where labour is properly rewarded comes to play.........

Any politician/political party that advocates 100% privatisation of the NHS sector........ Would NEVER smell power again, for the foreseeable future .......😂😁

💯, because over 95% of Brits are like "no Bueno" to the US healthcare system (along with their hormone injected beef lol).
Tories tried to privatise by the back door but have never been bold/foolish enough to be transparent with their objectives.