budaatum:


Same as the Jesus whom we read was nailed to a cross and stabbed and poisoned and died, lives in spirit I suppose, and as I will live in the spirit of what I have written on Nairaland long after I die and become worm food.

Mayn, you are going to forgive buda. I do not believe crap in any language whatsoever.

We have to be careful of the tale of iesus created by the chrestians as we see in codex sinaitcus

Queen helena is the mother of constantine, she is also a saint In Christianity having “miraculously” found the cross of Iesus chrestus.

Maynmann:

And our senses are limited. We are calculating time using our limited senses and they using the concept of time to understand the universe. This calculation is already wrong already.
The sun is up not because it’s 12pm, the sun is up because it’s supposed to be up regardless if our senses call it 12am.

Science is not the mere observation of the sun at any particular time. Science of the sun will include what is the sun, what is its influence on what we call time (like how long it takes the sun to complete a cycle), what effect does the sun have and of what use is the sun in general etc etc etc.

In early days, the study of the sun resulted in religious schools to teach what was known so further study could be embarked on.

Maynmann:
There’s no special knowledge anywhere afterall we are acting as persons.

One could argue that there is "special knowledge" everywhere actually, special being a subset of speciality and specialization. I would need special knowledge to get to the moon, for instance, or to create a computer chip or a nuclear bomb or even uninterrupted electricity, and without the special knowledge of how these things are done, which the acquisition of would take many years of study, one would be dumb as a rock as far as such things are concerned.

budaatum:

Science is not the mere observation of the sun at any particular time. Science of the sun will include what is the sun, what is its influence on what we call time (like how long it takes the sun to complete a cycle), what effect does the sun have and of what use is the sun in general etc etc etc.

In early days, the study of the sun resulted in religious schools to teach what was known so further study could be embarked on.


One could argue that there is "special knowledge" everywhere actually, special being a subset of speciality and specialization. I would need special knowledge to get to the moon, for instance, or to create a computer chip or a nuclear bomb or even uninterrupted electricity, and without the special knowledge of how these things are done, which the acquisition of would take many years of study, one would be dumb as a rock as far as such things are concerned.

You are defining the sun using your own limited senses.
Is the sun bright because of our sensitive eyes?
Is the rock hard because of our soft hands?
We are observing science in our limited perspective.
Science is Science, we will keep exploring.
We are using man made time and rulers to understand the universe lol

Knowledge is Knowledge. It is due to our own limited senses that we still attribute more to it. “Special, secret, erudite”.
Beauty is beauty, there is no more beautiful, only in our human senses is that.
A scientist should be a scientist, a cobbler should be a cobbler, each having knowledge of their crafts, but there’s nothing in their craft that’s “special” as long as they identify with the name of the craft that’s “scienctist, cobbler”.

Socrates said that all individuals should strive for the love of wisdom and engage in philosophical inquiry as a means to understand the world and themselves better.

Socrates said that wisdom was not something reserved for a select few or confined to academic institutions. Instead, he argued that every individual had the capacity and responsibility to seek knowledge, examine their beliefs, and lead a virtuous and examined life.

Maynmann:

We have to be careful of the tale of iesus created by the chrestians as we see in codex sinaitcus

We do not see in codex sinaitcus that the "tale of iesus created by the chrestians", though it's obvious in any Bible that the tales of Jesus were created by those who wrote them. But think we've established that the storys and myths were orally trasmitted for centurys and then went through numerous rewrites, redacts, additions, translations, syncretism, omissions, etc etc, etc sufficiently already, unless you'd like us to go back to what we already established.

What should be next is us "scientifically" analysing what we read in said book to gain knowledge from it if there's any.

budaatum:


We do not see in codex sinaitcus that the "tale of iesus created by the chrestians", though it's obvious in any Bible that the tales of Jesus were created by those who wrote them. But think we've established that the storys and myths were orally trasmitted for centurys and then went through numerous rewrites, redacts, additions, translations, syncretism, omissions, etc etc, etc sufficiently already, unless you'd like us to go back to what we already established.

What should be next is us "scientifically" analysing what we read in said book to gain knowledge from it if there's any.

Yes “we” do see, the codex sinaitcus was created by the Chrestians and for the chrestians.

Has no correlation with what we saying.

Bible means collection of books, and the New Testament created by the chrestians was meant for propaganda.
One should know the origin of the book, who it was written for, why it was written, thats science which is knowledge itself.

Maynmann:
Socrates said that all individuals should strive for the love of wisdom and engage in philosophical inquiry as a means to understand the world and themselves better.

Socrates said that wisdom was not something reserved for a select few or confined to academic institutions. Instead, he argued that every individual had the capacity and responsibility to seek knowledge, examine their beliefs, and lead a virtuous and examined life.

Socrates, like Jesus, was teaching the use of the senses, which is science, so one does not just believe

Special knowledge does not mean "reserved for a select few or confined to academic institutions". Special knowledge is reserved however for those who ask and knock with all their hearts and minds and soul and being and other senses. Those who seek not shall never find.

Wisdom is not the same thing as knowledge. Knowledge is, the "sun at 12pm", while wisdom is why, how, what, etc, and 'lets build a rocket or telescope to go see for ourselves what we've claimed so we may actually know what we claim we believe".

Maynmann:

Yes “we” do see, the codex sinaitcus was created by the Chrestians and for the chrestians.

Has no correlation with what we saying.

Bible means collection of books, and the New Testament created by the chrestians was meant for propaganda.
One should know the origin of the book, who it was written for, why it was written, thats science which is knowledge itself.

I am not going over this with you again since we've established it in a thread of its own. Please go read it and get up to scratch so we may move on please.

https://www.nairaland.com/7246156/israelite-god-yahweh-shasu-tribe#115075808

budaatum:


Socrates, like Jesus, was teaching the use of the senses, which is science, so one does not just believe

Special knowledge does not mean "reserved for a select few or confined to academic institutions". Special knowledge is reserved however for those who ask and knock with all their hearts and minds and soul and being and other senses. Those who seek not shall never find.

Wisdom is not the same thing as knowledge. Knowledge is, the "sun at 12pm", while wisdom is why, how, what, etc, and 'lets build a rocket or telescope to go see for ourselves what we've claimed so we may actually know what we claim we believe".

No jesus nor socrates didn’t teach the senses, only thr flesh has appetites, only the flesh suffer and feel pain. They taught more than that.

Knowledge is already instilled in everyone, if they know it or not. There is no extra knowledge anywhere, the “soul” does not do any knocking, like i said earlier we all acting as persons.
Seeing is believing, looks do deceive.
We can’t use our limited senses to understand nature, Ziren.

Wisdom is a form of a knowledge.
Everyone needs wisdom to live their lives, we need wisdom to be just.
When the knowledge of treating people was created it was called medicine.
When the knowledge of those things was created it that called those name, carpentry, engineering, rocket science, tailorong, they are not called “wise”, they are called knowledgeable.

budaatum:


I am not going over this with you again since we've established it in a thread of its own. Please go read it and get up to scratch so we may move on please.

https://www.nairaland.com/7246156/israelite-god-yahweh-shasu-tribe#115075808

This has zero correlation with the discussion.

Maynmann:

You are defining the sun using your own limited senses.

I have not defined the sun at all, Mayn.

Maynmann:
We are observing science in our limited perspective.

Kindly stop with the "we". I am not observing science. I am using the skills learnt from learning science to observe so I may know.

Maynmann:
Knowledge is Knowledge.

I wouldn't say so myself, since knowledge is rather subjective. Knowledge, as in, what is known, used to be that the earth was flat and was created by some god and travelled around the sun, but the doing of science, as in, humans using their senses, have shown that knowledge to be wrong.

Maynmann:
A scientist should be a scientist, a cobbler should be a cobbler, each having knowledge of their crafts, but there’s nothing in their craft that’s “special” as long as they identify with the name of the craft that’s “scienctist, cobbler”.

You might just find that the knowledge of doing science or being a cobbler is "special", and is only acquired by those who seek it, but I guess we might need to understand what we mean by special.

I have no 'special knowledge' pertaining to the heart, so I doubt you'd let me perform heart surgery on you and you'd would rather go to a person with special knowledge of the heart I hope, and neither would you pay me to cobble your shoes since I have no special knowledge of cobbling.

Maynmann:

This has zero correlation with the discussion.

It does when you repeat what we've already agreed on as if we haven't.

budaatum:

I have not defined the sun at all, Mayn.


Kindly stop with the "we". I am not observing science. I am using the skills learnt from learning science to observe so I may know.


I wouldn't say so myself, since knowledge is rather subjective. Knowledge, as in, what is known, used to be that the earth was flat and was created by some god and travelled around the sun, but the doing of science, as in, humans using their senses, have shown that knowledge to be wrong.


You might just find that the knowledge of doing science or being a cobbler is "special", and is only acquired by those who seek it, but I guess we might need to understand what we mean by special.

I have no 'special knowledge' pertaining to the heart, so I doubt you'd let me perform heart surgery on you and you'd would rather go to a person with special knowledge of the heart I hope, and neither would you pay me to cobble your shoes since I have no special knowledge of cobbling.

You already said “effects of sun”, as a thing that can causes effects according to our human senses.
It is you that’s using the “we”, I only copied you.
Science itself is observation using our limited senses.

Knowledge is knowledge, our understanding of knowledge is what is subjective, either you understand the earth as flat or square it doesn’t affect the shape of the earth!

A cobbler should be a cobbler do his job.
An engineer should be an engineer and do his job.
Doing your own job is the definition of justice.

You are not a doctor so why would I allowed you to do a heart surgery?
Just the same way I won’t allow a heart surgeon to fly me in a plane, each his doing their own job, no special knowledge.

budaatum:


It does when you repeat what we've already agreed on as if we haven't.

I didn’t, what you said has zero correlation to the discussion.

Maynmann:
No jesus nor socrates didn’t teach the senses,

I guess I'm going to have to conclude that you did not notice that Jesus and Socrates taught the use of the senses.

Maynmann:
Knowledge is already instilled in everyone, if they know it or not.

This is so untrue! Even knowledge of breathing is not instilled in new born humans who have to learn it in reaction to the new environment they find themselves. Those who don't learn quick, die.

What you, Mayn, know was not "already instilled" in you, but acquired through extensive research, but let me know if I am wrong please.

Maynmann:
We can’t use our limited senses to understand nature, Ziren.

Nature has been understood by humans to a great degree and only because humans have studied nature with their senses. If they hadn't, they be dumb as fuq like stupid Adam!

Maynmann:
Wisdom is a form of a knowledge.

Wisdom is the use of knowledge.

Maynmann:
Everyone needs wisdom to live their lives, we need wisdom to be just.

And I'm certain you'd agree that many humans do not have this special knowledge of how to be just.

Maynmann:
When the knowledge of treating people was created it was called medicine.

The knowledge of treating people was not created. It was scientifically learned through extensive research and has forever continued to evolve into what it is today.

Maynmann:

When the knowledge of those things was created it that called those name, carpentry, engineering, rocket science, tailorong, they are not called “wise”, they are called knowledgeable.

A definition of wisdom is the quality of having experience, knowledge, and good judgement; the quality of being wise.

I'd say carpentry, engineering, rocket science, tailoring are far more that knowledge and include knowing how to do those things, which is the utilisation of knowledge.

budaatum:

I guess I'm going to have to conclude that you did not notice that Jesus and Socrates taught the use of the senses.


This is so untrue! Even knowledge of breathing is not instilled in new born humans who have to learn it in reaction to the new environment they find themselves. Those who don't learn quick, die.

What you, Mayn, know was not "already instilled" in you, but acquired through extensive research, but let me know if I am wrong please.


Nature has been understood by humans to a great degree and only because humans have studied nature with their senses. If they hadn't, they be dumb as fuq like stupid Adam!


Wisdom is the use of knowledge.


And I'm certain you'd agree that many humans do not have this special knowledge of how to be just.


The knowledge of treating people was not created. It was scientifically learned through extensive research and has forever continued to evolve into what it is today.


A definition of wisdom is the quality of having experience, knowledge, and good judgement; the quality of being wise.

I'd say carpentry, engineering, rocket science, tailoring are far more that knowledge and include knowing how to do those things, which is the utilisation of knowledge.

No they didn’t, looks do deceive, you should read them up again.

Breathing happens naturally, “on its own”.

Doing your own job is just. The knowledge of treating people was created and it was called medicine, medicine is a craft. Wisdom is also a craft, and it’s the function of the soul.
When those crafts was created it was given those names.

No that’s not the definition of sophia, wisdom.

Maynmann:

You already said “effects of sun”, as a thing that can causes effects according to our human senses.
It is you that’s using the “we”, I only copied you.
Science itself is observation using our limited senses.

Are you disputing the sun has an effect?

Many might agree with you that "science itself is observation", but I can bet you my last penny that observing alone would not land you on Mars or help you create a computer chip or perform heart surgery, and that much more than observation would be required.

You would not let me perform heart surgery on you just because you've witnessed me observing a surgeon performing heart surgery.

Maynmann:
Knowledge is knowledge, our understanding of knowledge is what is subjective, either you understand the earth as flat or square it doesn’t affect the shape of the earth!

Are you suggesting that a thing is knowledge even if not known?

Knowledge is defined as facts, information, and skills acquired through experience or education; the theoretical or practical understanding of a subject, so it is rather subjective, I'd think.

Maynmann:
You are not a doctor so why would I allowed you to do a heart surgery?
Just the same way I won’t allow a heart surgeon to fly me in a plane, each his doing their own job, no special knowledge.

Thank you Mayn. I have no 'special knowledge' of heart surgery, so you wisely would not allow me to perform heart surgery on you nor let a surgeon fly you in a plane.

Tell me. What if I go and observe heart surgery being performed, would you let me perform heart surgery on you then?

budaatum:

I guess I'm going to have to conclude that you did not notice that Jesus and Socrates taught the use of the senses.


This is so untrue! Even knowledge of breathing is not instilled in new born humans who have to learn it in reaction to the new environment they find themselves. Those who don't learn quick, die.

What you, Mayn, know was not "already instilled" in you, but acquired through extensive research, but let me know if I am wrong please.

Yes it is, we are only relearning it..

Maynmann:

Breathing happens naturally, “on its own”.

It doesn't, Mayn.

budaatum:

Sorry, but I do not do "natural abilities people are born with".

People used to call on my ma at all hours, some caught short and not being able to get to hospital. At nights it was mostly labour, a woman on the verge of birth giving. My job was to ensure water was boiled and towels were at hand to receive the arriving baby.

It always amazed me that the babys were not born with the most normally expected natural ability to breath, and only learnt by reacting to their new environment.

If we did not teach humans how and where to shìt they'd be shítting on themselves due to the lack of the "natural ability" to know better.

Maynmann:

Yes it is, we are only relearning it..

Mayn, Plato was wrong, and humans have learnt a lot since Plato. And stop quoting Plato like it's some Bible to be believed please! It's writings to be understood and learnt from.

You were not born with any knowledge of anything whatsoever. But maybe I am wrong. Please tell me what knowledge you were born with.

budaatum:

Are you disputing the sun has an effect?

Many might agree with you that "science itself is observation", but I can bet you my last penny that observing alone would not land you on Mars or help you create a computer chip or perform heart surgery, and that much more than observation would be required.

You would not let me perform heart surgery on you just because you've witnessed me observing a surgeon performing heart surgery.


Are you suggesting that a thing is knowledge even if not known?

Knowledge is defined as facts, information, and skills acquired through experience or education; the theoretical or practical understanding of a subject, so it is rather subjective, I'd think.



Thank you Mayn. I have no 'special knowledge' of heart surgery, so you wisely would not allow me to perform heart surgery on you nor let a surgeon fly you in a plane.

Tell me. What if I go and observe heart surgery being performed, would you let me perform heart surgery on you then?

According to my human senses it has.
Is the sun bright because of my sensitive eye?
Is the rock hard because of my soft hands?

Observation is what led to the knowledge of taking people to mars.
A heart surgeon is someone that treats hearts not someone that observes a surgeon experiment.
And the “observation” i am talking about is not this cheap example lol.

I said that our limited knowledge does not stop science (knowledge), scientists don’t have the cure for some illnesses but that does not mean there is no cure to it in science, scientists just have to keep observing.

No bud, you are not a heart surgeon thats why I won’t allow you.

Does observing a heart surgery make you a heart surgeon.
If everyone is doing their job that’s what justice is. 😂

budaatum:


Mayn, Plato was wrong, and humans have learnt a lot since Plato. And stop quoting Plato like it's some Bible to be believed please! It's writings to be understood and learnt from.

You were not born with any knowledge of anything whatsoever. But maybe I am wrong. Please tell me what knowledge you were born with.

No bud, plato was not wrong.
The books in the bible are random quotations of people.

I’m the knowledge, bud.
I wonder who teaches a queen bee what to do?

budaatum:


It doesn't, Mayn.

It does, bud.
Just as your hair grows naturally.
All your organs work on their own.

No forcing.

Maynmann:

I wonder who teaches a queen bee what to do?

It learns from its environment, Mayn. First, a bee has to be selected to be the queen, then it is placed in the environment where it learns what to do.

But anyway, please answer my question.

budaatum:
Please tell me what knowledge you were born with.

budaatum:

It learns from its environment, Mayn. First, a bee has to be selected to be the queen, then it is placed in the environment where it learns what to do.

But anyway, please answer my question.

All this processes happen randomly lol, no it happens “naturally”.
The environment you talk about is the Nature.

In a honey bee colony, the selection of the queen bee is a natural process carried out by the bees themselves. The colony's worker bees determine which larva will develop into a queen bee. They do so by modifying the diet of selected female larvae, providing them with a substance called royal jelly. Royal jelly triggers the development of reproductive organs in the larvae, allowing them to become queens.

I’m the knowledge, bud, you are too, so as the queen bee.

Maynmann:

I’m the knowledge, bud, you are too, so as the queen bee.

I am not "the knowledge", Mayn. The limited knowledge that I have has been acquired by me studying and learning and none of it was I born with.

budaatum:


I am not "the knowledge", Mayn. The limited knowledge that I have has been acquired by me studying and learning and none of it was I born with.

You are the knowledge you are only pretending you are not, acting like educated “persons”
That’s why you have to be reminisce.

Maynmann:

You are the knowledge you are only pretending you are not, acting like educated “persons” ; D
That’s why you have to be reminisce.

I think you've gone into that realm you go to whereby further discussion becomes pointless. We went past this stage in a recent conversation, which proved very constructive despite us not agreeing, but this is nowhere close.

You can simple prove your point of course by answering the question you've been asked. But until you do, I'm afraid buda will rest.

Please tell me what knowledge you were born with.

budaatum:


I think you've gone into that realm you go to whereby further discussion becomes pointless. We went past this stage in a recent conversation, which proved very constructive despite us not agreeing, but this is nowhere close.

You can simple prove your point of course by answering the question you've been asked. But until you do, I'm afraid buda will rest.

Please tell me what knowledge you were born with.

I haven’t gone to any realm bud, you are the one that brings totally unrelated things to arguments.

I’m the knowledge.
I eat when I’m hungry.
I sleep when I feel sleepy.
I drink when I’m thirsty.
Everything happens naturally.

Maynmann:

Everything happens naturally.

For you, perhaps, but definitely not for me for whom almost nothing happens naturally but by me getting off my ass and making things happen.

Today, for instance, I have not naturally eaten anything but what I have gotten off my ass to cook and put in my mouth.

Please tell me what knowledge you were born with.

budaatum:


For you, perhaps, but definitely not for me for whom almost nothing happens naturally but by me getting off my ass and making things happen.

Today, for instance, I have not naturally eaten anything but what I have gotten off my ass to cook and put in my mouth.

Please tell me what knowledge you were born with.

Everything is happening naturally, one should not force anything.
Ups and downs are part of nature.

I’m the knowledge.
I eat when I’m hungry.
I sleep when I feel sleepy.
I drink when I’m thirsty.
Everything happens naturally.

Maynmann:

Everything is happening naturally, one should not force anything.
Ups and downs are part of nature.

Yet, here we are unnaturally trying to force our own opinions on each other.

Please tell me what knowledge you were born with.