Hi folks, how are you guys doing?

Anyways,which one do you prefer between going for an HND with your ND result and going to 100L in a University?

Editor: ND - National Diploma. HND - Higher National Diploma

Based on the thread about the discrimination between HND and BSc. in the Nigerian workplace, my opinion is that in your best interest you should go for the University Degree instead of the HND programme.

You still mix things together here,
If you love academics you need to go to university for degree not Diploma as some courses in the university leads only to certificate. But professional courses in the polytechnic may not be available in the university. e.g. Secretarial studies
Engineering Technology(Engineering in University)
Accountancy(accounting in University) etc
Thats is why NBTE Made ND now (from next year) 3 years so that you will have a choice of having 2or3 years B.tech. and HND will be optional.

All that na story. The truth of the matter is wheather you admit it or not, there is a discrimination in the NIgerian working environment against HND holders.

Go to University. You will be better off.

Pls HND HOLDER I didn't get your point. Could you pls clearify me?

Do not compare university with polytechnic, they are not the same, only equivalency.

eg. Poly offers Accountancy
university offers Accounting

So if with ND accountancy you want Bsc Accounting you must start from 100 level
is like a decree holder wanting to be a driver, he must obtain all the paper as required by law.
In faculty of law today we have graduates of university starting afresh with B.sc or BA. at 100 level in faculty of law. How about registered nurse, to obtain Bsc in Nursing you must be a NR/Sr nurse and again start afresh.
What is the big thing there for even HND holder wanting an accademic degree starting from 100level, they are two parallel lines that can never meet.

Why rolling your eyes.  Polytechnic is a senior practical technical school that awards NATIONAL DIPLOMA
for the middle levels

That was the reason that all university were stopped from Awarding Diploma.

Higher Diploma HD, Advance Diploma and Final Diplomas, as well as HTD  are just fill in the gaps NEVER for promotions.
HIGHER NATIONAL DIPLOMA(HND) This is optional (a) If you do not want to go to university
(b) If your organisation want you at the practical level useful to their product after some years with ND
(c) If that is what your capacity can take.etc.
HND is not ment to be a straight course that is why you have to obtain a new form to come for HND. But today OND graduates made themselves so cheap that they call it one year IT. Nothing like one year IT. They rush back for HND without enough practicals. When they get out of polytechnic they can not perform as HND HOLDER  and they are not equiped for the paperwork like the Bsc holders.
Let everybody know this implications before rushing to Polytechnic. It is very stressfull No respect for HND HOLDER only your money that can bring friends to you.

HND is the only one approved by NBTE. This should come at least after a year or more when the ND graduate is sound in practical. Because there is no job everybody now want HND. ND is not the same as HSC. Let all that cares know tha t HND is for people who do not wish to go to university for any reason. How can HND be equal to Bsc then? Never they are not the same.

Do not just go for any Diploma

ND National Diploma and HND are the approved one by NBTE

University of Ibadan Awarded, Intermediate and Final Diploma untill 2001

Odinary Diploma and Advance Diploma are on their own

OTD Technician Diploma and Higher Technician Diploma that of Poly consult Ibadan

FTD & FTC , C&G london run courses leading Full Technician Diploma

You better prepare your self against unemploment by finishing your skill programms in the polytechnic intead of 100 level

Only accredited Diploma known as National Diploma ND, the rest ordinary Diploma OD
go for what will make u happy in life.

It is unfortunate that many people are making negative contribution and hiding the truth from others. The truth is the nation needs more polytechnic graduate than the university that is a fact. Consider India, china and even Britain the technical manpower is more the managers.

Look in Britain if you are a university graduate you are not compared, you are highly rated same for the HND graduate. You are a graduate, not all go that far. But all must be skillful.

Sympathetic talk. I just came back from a meeting with NBTE over this issue. Forget it. We are no longer ready to go to the polytechnic.

shile - l am an OND graduate as well, so l am speaking from exprience. my advice is for u to go for the 100 level, don't let anybody deceive u with pratical or nigeria need more polythenic graduate, all that is story, at the end of the day it still boils down to self development because if u look at both curiculum they are both outdated.
If u go for the HNd and u eventually confront the monster called discrimination u will be force to either take a pgd or a DE. so l will advice u go for the unversity and save ur time and effort. This is Nigeria, everybody knows the right thing it is just that they find it difficult to implement. l don't know why a Bsc should be higher or well paid than HND.

I think with the discrimination in nigeria on HND holders i will advice holders of ND to rush into 100 or 200 levels in the university and get a Degree at the end of the day; because that is what even the government (Fed, state and local)recognizes. I hold ND and HND too, but i was employed by one of the nigerian companies and given the same level as those with ND and NCE; not as a graduate o!. While those with university degrees get rewarded for their incompetencies with higher salaries those with HND get rewarded with extra work because they work like jaki. Please o! any body, if u have a way of getting a university degree go get it and save ur self the stress and wahala i,m passing thru. HND should only be patronised when govt realises the importance of graduates of polytechnics and begin to pay them even better than uni graduates, else go into any university whether fed, state, local or private and get a university degree. After all that is what the country and govt of nigeria wants. They only tell people stories of how relevant HND holders are, but have never done anything to better or improve the lives of poly graduates. Go to govt parastatals like NNPC you will know that the govt are decieving us. They dont employ HND holders, they dont give scholarship to polytechnic undergraduates and all that. Its a pity!!

They only tell people stories of how relevant HND holders are, but have never done anything to better or improve the lives of poly graduates. Go to govt parastatals like NNPC you will know that the govt are decieving us. They don't employ HND holders, they don't give scholarship to polytechnic undergraduates and all that. Its a pity!!



@Isheal
Thank u for that explicit analysis and at the same time try and upgrade urself go for either pgd or a bsc.

You need to read this [i]A Perspective On The Discrimination Against Nigerian HND Holders[i][/i]By[/i]Christian Dimkpa

Germany

Dimkpa@uni-jena.de



At present, the average Nigerian graduate, be they of the university or the polytechnic hue, is largely poorly trained and therefore ill equipped to face life’s dynamic realities. On a visit to Nigeria last summer, one of my former lecturers at the Michael Okpara College of Agriculture (MOCA), Owerri Imo State, during a discussion, concluded that the last set of motivated and serious students of his college graduated in 1998. I agreed with him not because I was of that set, but because my HND research project attests to that. However, I remembered that this same lecturer, like several of his peers, rather than engage the students in rigorous academic work, sold plagiarised hand-outs to us like no man’s business. This brings me to the recent directive from President Obasanjo, aimed at ending the discrimination between HND and BSc graduates. Whether employers of labour are heeding this directive or not, is another story. But, tell me, what is there to discriminate against when both qualifications (as obtained from Nigeria in recent times) reek of mediocrity? The truth is, like his BSc counterpart, the present Nigerian HND graduate is a lazy, dependent fellow who would not take his destiny in his hands. Many students attend polytechnics for several reasons. For me, but also, am sure, for many ND students, being from just an average-resource base family, undertaking an ND program was a form of security, since the later is of shorter duration, and there is no guaranteed funding for the longer BSc program. It was reasoned that in the event of loss of sponsorship (from death or loss of job by the sponsor); one can pause after the ND, work for a while and then continue with higher studies. For the much longer BSc program, loss of sponsorship midway could see the individual involved back to school certificate level. Would you blame anyone for reasoning this way? I wouldn’t; with poverty so palpable in Nigeria.
Although I was fully aware of the discrimination phenomenon, I did not let it be a road-block to my ambition. If you will permit, a brief delve into my career might help to buttress this point. I use to hold (of course, I still hold) a National Diploma (ND) and a HND in Crop Production, both from relatively non-renown higher institutions in Nigeria. However, it is instructive that today, I am pursuing a PhD program at one of the prestigious Max Planck institutes in Germany (best research institute in Europe and eight best globally), and this is in an innovative field of study that perhaps, may never be conducted in any Nigerian university many years from now. This is after obtaining an International MSc degree in Belgium from a university that is listed among the first 300 globally. Note that no Nigerian university is in the first 500, and in the newspaper recently, one Nigerian stakeholder lamented that even if the ranking is extended to the first 5000 best universities, Nigerian universities would still not make the list.
After my HND studies in 1998, I worked with the International Institute of Tropical Agriculture (IITA) Ibadan, as a Research Assistant. During the interview for that position, several BSc graduate applicants from ‘well-known’ universities such as UI, UniLag, OAU-Ile Ife, among others, were interviewed as well, but the big university names associated with those individuals did not save them from relegation, as they say in football parlance. What I am emphasising here is that it is the intellectual quality of the individual, not the institution attended, that often matters. If you know IITA, then you will agree with me that when it comes to staff recruitment, personal merit is the watchword, not merely possessing a HND or BSc degree.
Afterwards, I applied for graduate studies at the Federal University of Agriculture in Abeokuta (UNAAB). Surprisingly or not, I was not considered suitable for admission either because of my HND (upper credit), or because I do not come from that part of Nigeria (remember that tribalism is another serious scourge in Nigeria). But that is by the way. Nevertheless, I did not relent in my desire to attain the highest academic level possible, so that in spite of possessing a HND and the unexplained rejection by UNAAB, and thanks to hundreds of internet hours, I soon obtained a full scholarship from the Belgian inter-university council (www.vlir.be) in 2003, to study Molecular Biology (Plant Biotechnology) in that country. When I arrived in Belgium for the MSc program, I found out that of 241 Nigerians who applied for scholarship for the course, I was the only one admitted. Remember, I held a HND, not the ‘almighty’ BSc. The curious mind that I am, I inquired more about the unsuccessful Nigerian applicants and behold, they were mostly university graduates (again from UI, UniLag, OAU, UNN, UniPort, etc). Of course, two other students of The Polytechnic Ibadan were also admitted but for a different MSc course. That polytechnic offers only HND and not BSc programs. Such is the power of the individual merit. I have since acquitted myself very well in the Belgian MSc program; hence I was admitted, again on full fellowship, to one of the International Max Planck Research School (IMPRS) of the Max Planck society in Germany (http://www.mpg.de/english and also (http://www.ice.mpg.de) , to study beneficial plant-microbe interaction using modern biotechniques, including proteomics and metabolomics. The other Nigerian scholars, formerly holding HNDs, have since undertaken different higher pursuits here in Europe. This narrative does not by any means attempt to denigrate Nigerian BSc graduates or the universities from which they graduated, but rather to de-emphasise the entrenched segregation. There is even a dichotomy between federal and state university graduates. Wonders shall never end, in Nigeria! From my experience, it can be seen that the senseless HND-BSc dichotomy should have no place in the mind of any serious-minded Nigerian graduate. After all, the HND is fully recognised in the UK and have several equivalents in other European countries. What then is all the fuss about it in Nigeria? My little advice to the Nigerian HND holder who have suffered this discrimination, and who feel qualified enough for certain positions denied them is this: do not let man-made barriers block your ambition, except you have none. Take a cue from others; take time off to do meaningful internet browsing, not using the internet for 419 and other such negative activities. In no time, you too can obtain scholarships to foreign and much better rated institutions of higher learning. By so doing you would have catapulted yourself well beyond any possible academic discrimination if you choose to return to Nigeria to work.

Christian Dimkpa, a PhD fellow of the International Max Planck Research School, writes from Jena, Germany (cdimkpa@ice.mpg.de)

HND-holder, i ve read that article b4, and i was very impressed. Most pple with HND certificates easily give up when they jam or come in contact with discrimination. I love dat guy. He has been able to prove to the whole world that nigerian HND certificate is superb. But the issue on ground is that would u advice anyone to go in and do HND in nigeria, considering the discrimination on HND certificate holders? To me oo! until things change for better for HND holders i will not advice any one to go to any polytechnic in nigeria. The truth is that the govt don't even like the existence of such institutions. That is why they dont pump in money or invest money there. They dont even patronize HND graduates at all. Goto govt parastatals and see what is happening there; even if they take HND holders they place them on level 07. Compare what the govt gives to even the smallest university in nigeria annually; 2wice what they give to schools like yabatech and kadpoly joined together. We dont need to be told again that they don't like the idea of having HND alongside Bsc in nigeria. Lets not make others to suffer or pass thru what we are passing thru. If things improve or become better for HND holders, then no wahala we can advice pple to start patronizing polytechnics else let pple go to universities. Imagine pple with BA and Bsc from some mushroom universities in nigeria even have more recognition than pple who hold HND certificates from the best polytechnics in africa based here in nigeria. I ve been a victim of discrimination in nigeria as a result of holding HND certificate, i,m talking from experience.

My brother is better they close down all polytechnics in Nigeria and create more private  universities

@hnd holder n ishmael, u both spoke well. While i wouldnt advice anyone to go to d polys cos of d discrimination, i wud stil say go, while pursuing ur uni. admission cos of d way ume exams r dese days. One cant afford to sit at home waiting for a favourable ume result.

@topic, i'd say start ur 100 or better still, take a direct entry to d uni. n start at 200 level.

my brother, thatz it o! U,ve said it. UME these days can even make u get hypertension at a very young age. While in the polytechnic still think of going for a direct entry in the university; thatz my own advice to people who go into polytechnics now. I did not realise that in time sha. My classmates who went into 200 levels in the universities, though i got my HND b4 they graduated, they are better employed than myself now. One of them works in the same company with me, i joined the company b4 him but he's a big boy there now by virtue of his BSc; while me i,m still far far far behind him in the company.

I graduated in 1987 HND and reporting to 1995 university graduate. you see. They should just remove poly from Nigeria. It should not be alternative to UME

Have u seen the recent vacancy advert for graduate trainees and other professionals into NNPC? This time around it's HND/Bsc. Thank God oo. OBJ's pronouncement is begining to manifest. I pray it continues like that. Come to look at it, keep sentiments away; most HND holders are very skillful and sharp. I could remember university undergraduates coming to meet me to teach them maths, statistics, QT, programming and data processing when i was a polytechnic undergraduate. Why the discrimination if they would want to learn or tap from HND holders? Polytechnic education should have been the best system of education for a growing nation like nigeria, but the country's policy on education have made it a crime to obtain HND. Thatz why we are still where we are 2day, the 1960,s of Europe.

Is Polytechnic Education Going into Extinction?

By

Ayara Dennis Omeiza

Stden2003@yahoo.com



On the 19th of August 2005, Professor Bello Salim, the Joint Admission and Matriculation Board (JAMB) henchman lamented the poor registration of people into the Monotechnic, College of Education and Polytechnic JAMB examination that was to be held on the 20th of August 2005. The man looked worried and confused at the low turn out, his worries were that only an incredible number of 150,000 candidate registered for the examination, while a good number of the aforementioned number registered late. This to me is expected because it underscores the lack of interest and apat hy that prevails among youths seeking for admission. The youths cannot be blamed for not seeking polytechnic education since the society now under plays its value.



The societal dislike is influenced by governmental decision that places more emphasis on university degree (Bachelor) rather than university education, they place higher premium on university holder thereby relegating holders of Higher National Diploma (HND) to an infidel in the academic world. This dichotomy between a university degree (Bachelor) and a Polytechnic Diploma (HND) goes beyond the ordinary, while holders of Higher National Diploma who spent more years in the pursuant of this certificate is demoralize with comments from employers of labor who often time does not even include HND certificate as a prerequisite for the vacancies placed. The government on the other side who is supposed to be an un-bias umpire now pursues an agenda of alienation and exclusion of HND holders in her employment drive. This unwritten understanding was confirmed by the recent advertisement by Federal Character Commission, which advertised 1000 jobs. The commission made it clear that only Bachelor holders with first class and 2.1 in some courses are only eligible, this however leaves the HND holders bemoan thier fate.



The recent pronunciation by our Humorous President Chief Olusegun Obasanjo that students of Mass Communication and Sociology may be allocated permanent residence in the already saturated labour market because they are uneducated and lack basic skills shows that those saddled with leadership responsibilities lacked the psychology of human feelings. The President may have forgotten the role played by media in the Abacha`s regime when he was jailed for a phantom coup. The relevance of both fields cannot be over-emphasied in our today’s world; ironically, the President has passed his verdict on these noble professions.



My personal philosophy in life is that “what you have count less but what you do with what you have is what gives a man a pat in the back” I equally have a firm believe in the dictum that says “ what people call you is less significant but what you call your self is all that matters”. Thus, the low rating of HND holders would not have been a stumbling block to the holders, but, the near absence of their inclusion in the advertised vacancies is the real problem that plagued them. The absence of competition from students in these institutions is a killer sword that tilt the battle of securing a job in favour of a university graduate.



The dearth of a level playing field in the labour market has really helped to re-classify graduates from polytechnic as a pseudo graduate. Certificate rather than what one can do has suddenly became the deciding factor, thus, less attention is given to function while more attention goes to status. A good number cannot really practice their trade, though the fault is not theirs but on the system that engaged in crash study to make up for time spent on one form of strike or the other.



It is not a misnomer therefore, if a loving father does not want his child to go for a polytechnic education because the society only recognize a university certificate, which has led to the diabolic act of examination mal-practice to strive, the parents engages the services of any body to ensure the admission of his or her child in to any university. He proudly does that because he is part of the society and would want his cherished child to be a policyholder.



Incidentally, universities and other higher institutions are grossly under-funded by the government and the numbers of existing universities are scarcely inadequate to cater for millions of youths who wish to be admitted, this leave the society and the candidate in a dicey state. There willt be a system crash if everybody sought and get university admission, funny enough, the admission often than not goes to the highest bidders as there exist an insignificant number of universities in the country couple with poor funding.



The polariasation will destroy the system and increase examination mal-practice, it will certainly create a large army of unemployment and uneducated youths which will serve some selfish politicians at the detriment of the people. Armed robbery will be on the increase because the existing university cannot admit them. Ironically, our higher institution has become a place for “social” re-alignment and a training ground for cultist as evidenced in some institution across the country.



With the President’s Fatwa on Mass Communication and Sociology students, the existing

Institution must be prepared for an unprecedented rush into the engineering department, suffice it to say that such a rush will not be to the advantage of the country and the department, because a man cannot have an outstanding result in any thing he has little understanding on. Unfortunately, those who will engage in this rush are not doing it for the interest or love they have for it but to assuage the public.



Lest am miss-understood, university education is a must in our competitive world but our Polytechnic must not die in the hands of those in authorities. They (polytechnics) are supposed to play a complimentary role in our(society) bid to transform the country. If tertiary education is be properly funded, a graduate can create value on any field.



The Nigeria society will only lost its value if certificate is all that matters. It is ironical to note that Ted Turner and Bill Gate would have lost an opportunity if they had been a Nigerian.

Ayara Dennis Omeiza

Stden2003@yahoo.com

''The Nigeria society will only lost its value if certificate is all that matters. It is ironical to note that Ted Turner and Bill Gate would have lost an opportunity if they had been a Nigerian''.

True even white paper to back up the removal of discrimination may not see the light of the day.

Bros, we shall get there soon, if only people with HND will stop going in for BA/BSc programs after their HND; and continue advancing to do PGD& MSc. To me it makes the whole thing look as if the polytechnic system of education is insignificant or obsolete. If it is insignificant and obsolete, then Nigerians should be told so that people don’t waste their precious time and years going in there at the beginning.

Do away with the polytechnics. British old thing.

Please help us advice Nigerian government to scrap polytechnics or convert them to what they want (universities).

To all Nigerian we the victim of Poly which to appeal to all that Polytechnic education that came with the OYINBOs is out dated. Regards

Thisday paper quoted`` Mere pronouncement can not change such a policy,'' Nwoha stressed, adding that the HND education policy was made to meet a particular manpower need of the country and should not be dropped if the need had not been met.

Honestly mere pronouncement can never change things. The only way out of this is to enact a law. And secondly govt should show preference for Technical education by employing more polytechnic graduates than university graduates in its ministries; else wahala go dey oo!

No o we can not be like niger delta o

Laffsssssssss Bros u no like niger-delta style? Any way we don’t need to take govt officials hostage.