^^^ LOL I felt that since last year, but I couldnt throw stones from my glass house at the time. hehehe

hmmm . . .

Dear friend,

I stumbled on this thread ~ and I totally recommend this thread as an enriching discussion ~ it is an interview of a theist, leading to a discussion with other Nairalanders.

Here are some quotes which I am very persuaded about:

Pastor AIO: Anyway, let's move on to religion.  Without talking about God directly I want to say that I believe that our concepts and our perceptions are some degrees removed from Reality and truth.  Therefore whatever we think, whatever ideologies we entertain, can never be the Truth as it really is.  This applies to everything, not only God.  We can never have an accurate concept of God.  Similarly we can never even have an accurate concept of our own being. 

Krayola:

[size=13pt]"When your intellect conceives of God, do not permit urself to imagine that there is a God that exists as depicted by you. For if you do this you will have a finite and corporeal conception of God, God forbid. Instead, your mind should dwell on the affirmation of God's existence and then recoil. To do more than this is to allow the imagination to reflect on God as God is in Himself and such reflection is bound to result in imaginative limitations and corporeality. Put reins therefore on your intellect and do not allow it too great a freedom, but assert God's existence and deny your intellect the possibility of comprehending God"  16th century kabbalist Moses cordevero[/size]

This quote is awesome.

and this one too:- an Indian "mythical" story

Pastor AIO:
When Man was first created he had so much Power and knowledge that certain gods became afraid.  The connived together to steal the powers of Man.  After the deed was done they were left with a problem.  'Where do we hide this power that we've stolen from man'? 
They held a meeting and discussed.  Some gods suggested that they hide the power in the Earth. 
'No', said another god, 'this man is so crafty and curious that if we hide the power in the earth his curiosity will one day lead him to dig into the earth and he will rediscover the power'.

Another suggested in that case that they hide it in the wind.  but again they concluded that crafty man would eventually investigate the wind and extract the power from it. 

Some suggested Fire.  But again they concluded that man would soon discover all the secrets within fire.  Water was suggested, but that was soon dismissed too.  There seemed to be no solution to the problem.

But then one young yogi (there were yogis at the meeting too) had a brilliant idea.  He said,' let us take this great power and put it inside Man himself.  I bet you my bottom dollar that when he awakes and finds his power gone he will begin his thorough search of Fire, Water, earth and Wind, but it will never ever occur to him to look within to find the power'. 

All the gods rejoiced at the brilliant plan and that is what they did.  They placed the Truth deep within the man himself and indeed till this day man seeks high and low and makes a thorough investigation into everything but it never occurs to him to quieten down and probe within.

Pastor AIO: I see what you mean.  I guess it is in direct contrast with what a lot of churches teach because those churches teach one to look for salvation in various phenomena around you rather than within you.  eg.  salvation is in the Bible, or salvation is in the pastor, or salvation is in the holy water, or the icons or whatever wherever.  It could be that God is closer to us than we think, closer to us than our jugular vein, as a certain arab camel herder once put it.  If it were not so then certainly those who are closer whether they be birds or beasts will certainly get to him before we do.

Deep Sight:
Well Pastor, we need to bring this to a close, so is it safe to conclude the following:

1. You believe in God, a supernatural creator of the universe, et al

2. You also believe in the Christ, and draw essential christianity therefrom

3. This Christ you believe to be love, harmony and order inherent in creation, and not necessarily knowledge of the Earthlife of Mr. Jesus from Nazareth and as such -

4. Any person of any religion, tribe or philosophy who can key-in with that love inherent in creation is well placed therein, and may experience the "harmony" that results therefrom, and this may in part be understood also as spiritual salvation.

5. Guidance comes through the spirit, which provides contextual ethics for man: that man may know right and wrong on a situational basis, each situation being different, as opposed to codified and rigid laws.

m_nwankwo:
We should not taken things (religious discussions) too serious or else we become fixated to forms and become imperceptible to the pulsating power of God which shapes the forms

Pastor AIO:
From my experience of Christ I believe that knowledge of him results first in a sense of being Loved.  The world suddenly becomes more cosy, nothing will harm you.  The Love is almost tangible it emanates off everything around.  It is out of this feeling of being loved, or love pouring unto you that it gets to a certain level that it overflows and you start to exhibit the love back in your actions.  It then seems like the love is pouring out of you. 

You're not forcing yourself to love (or act as if you love) because that is what it says in the rule books.  It is a part of your nature, you can't help it.  Love becomes effortless.  Whereas with the carnal mind it is something that you beat yourself up over.  "I must be more loving.  I must be kind because this is what the bible says I must do.  Why didn't I show that other guy kindness, that was wrong of me, father please forgive me, I will make myself a more loving person by force by force by force."

---

Love comes from the experience of Christ. You don't earn Christ by Loving.  that is the wrong way round. Being Good/righteous comes from the divine influence in your life not the other way round whereby if you are good then you earn divine favour.

---

By experience of Christ I guess I mean a experience whereby you feel LOVE and you feel a sense of an intentional Order in the universe.  I couldn't say that these are the defining characteristics of the experience but they come associated with the experience.

This first experience of love is what I also called the first spark of salvation here: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=575273.msg7505010#msg7505010

m_nwankwo: To judge correctly wheather something is good or evil, one has to be able to sense the core (spiritual decision), the motive, the imagination, the thoughts, the words and the actions. Unfortunately, most of us are only able to make judjement based on the the shells particularly words and actions and then we go astray. That means that we rely on the human brain to judge and the human brain in itself cannot recognise the will of God, that is it is incapable of differentiationg good from evil except it is directed by the human spirit.

---

I do not rely on books to make spiritual decisons. I rely on the faculties of my spirit and these faculties are capable of looking into the book of life and draw from it events that has happened in the past.

Fitra: A Return to a Natural State
"And so, set thy face steadfastly towards the [one ever-true] faith, turning away from all that is false, in accordance with the natural disposition (fitra) which God has instilled into man: [for,] not to allow any change to corrupt what God has thus created-this is the [purpose of the one] ever-true faith; but most people know it not." (Surah Ar-Rum, The Byzantines, ayat 30)

The above quote is a reference to the concept of "fitra", a basic belief in Islam. "Fitra" is an Arabic word that means "innate human nature". Islamic theology contends that we are born into a state of "fitra" and have the innate knowledge of "tawhid" or monotheism, however, we are also susceptible to corruption. Islam teaches us how to rediscover our fitra, and thus by practicing Islam one is always working towards a goal of attaining their original pure state.

---

this is openly stated in the koran to be the goal of the religion.  The question I then ask of muslims is 'has this goal been achieved and if not why not?'.  Without fitra everything else that they do is reduced to nonsense.

---

The problem is not with Christianity and Islam solely but with any rigidly codified system of conduct.  It will miss the essence of fitra which is something very very subtle.  It cannot be spoken about neither is it expressed through words or text.

Pastor AIO: Being Christian is not an intellectual exercise, but rather it is living life with power and authority through grace.

M_nwankwo:
I understand him to say it that he who practices genuine love already have Christ for there can be no genuine love without Christ and no Christ without genuine love. Thus if Mahatma Gandi practiced true love, then he knows Christ even if he was not a "christian" in an earthly sense.

There is so much truth here that its so much that I can't even highlight everything!

Pastor AIO, Deep Sight, Krayola, M_nwankwo and others, thank you all.

Krayola:

[size=13pt]"When your intellect conceives of God, do not permit urself to imagine that there is a God that exists as depicted by you. For if you do this you will have a finite and corporeal conception of God, God forbid. Instead, your mind should dwell on the affirmation of God's existence and then recoil. To do more than this is to allow the imagination to reflect on God as God is in Himself and such reflection is bound to result in imaginative limitations and corporeality. Put reins therefore on your intellect and do not allow it too great a freedom, but assert God's existence and deny your intellect the possibility of comprehending God" 16th century kabbalist Moses cordevero[/size]

Thanks for referring me to this thread, Pastor AIO. It confirms what I thought about you since my first encounters of your contributions! I enjoyed reading through the whole thread! The above quote posted by Krayola, I love most!

KunleOshob's link also made a very interesting read, I must say!

http://www.modernghana.com/news/247818/1/the-jews-lied-against-africa-to-ascend.html

Thank God for God! Kudos to all contributors!

@Seyibrown; you know the statement of the ancient kabbalist, which is quoted, see below, that you said you love so much is against jesus to ever be a God. see the part in bold that directly attack a thing that has limitation as ever a possible God, but god [god being a made up, a fake in this case].

[Quote]do not permit urself to imagine that there is a God that exists as depicted by you. For if you do this you will have a finite and corporeal conception of God, God forbid. Instead, your mind should dwell on the affirmation of God's existence and then recoil. To do more than this is to allow the imagination to reflect on God as God is in Himself and such reflection is bound to result in imaginative limitations and corporeality. Put reins therefore on your intellect and do not allow it too great a freedom, but assert God's existence and deny your intellect the possibility of comprehending God"[/Quote]the part that is not in bold explains the bold further.

Sweetnecta, I think you missed road on the quote! . You may wish to read the thread so that you understand why the quote was posted by Krayola. You will then understand better the part you emboldened, in context!

Peace be unto you, Egbon! K'olorun ji'wa 're o!

Olorun a ji wa re.

i was not interested in the story.

i am interested in the quote that interested you enough that you love it.


incidentally a kabbalist is no different from an occultist.

the man of the hour of the thread, pastoraio is nothing short of ifa worshiper.

from the two idol worshipers, you another form of idolater is learning something that you even love a truth from one of them; a kabbalist.


you know that it was under the nose of a disbeliever, pharaoh that God Almighty raise one of the mighty messenger, Moses [as] the world has ever known.

the above should tell you something about the Power of the Almighty. but you have to say He was weak, human; jesus who couldn't do anything by his own power. maybe that was the reason you and the jews believe that he was killed by a handful of jews and gentiles. this event, which is untrue, if it were to be true, in either case is a proof that jesus aint God Almighty.


read about the birth of Moses in the Quran; it is a superior story. you as a woman knows how soft the heart of mother is towards her children. see how Allah the Loving shore up the heart of Moses mother as she cast his on the water, and then returning the baby to her so that she can cool her eyes.


mo ti so wipe ki iwo ati oko e ke di muslim. you will taste the adun of real faith.

^^^ What is this thing that you have posted? Please I am the owner of this thread, I hold it in trust for humanity. So please don't come and pollute this fine thread with these kinds of posts.

Thank you.

^^^^^^^^^^^ in trust for humanity?

nigerian universities are now producing all kinds of madness; those of egos in the mind of those people one will assume is normal.

how much will you collect na

Sweetnecta:


nigerian universities are now producing all kinds of madness

Just FYI, my own madness started long before any university, Nigerian or foreign.

collect? whats that?

i'm kinda surprise that you put yourself in a position of a trustee for 'humanity'. your dream is pure delusion if you believe you extend beyond yourself. and that extension is what you have displayed in that claim.

blast from the past!

Hmmm. Interesting thread.

This thread was truly a classic really brings a sense of nostalgia of the good old NL days.

I just want to resurrect the topic.
That's all

Pastor Kun: This thread was truly a classic really brings a sense of nostalgia of the good old NL days.

Whatever happened to Pastor AIO? He rarely posts anything these days.

Now that over a decade of the waters of time have run under the bridge, PastorAIO can you share with us how and where your worldview has evolved, especially with regard to spiritual/ existential matters - viz: the meaning of life.

DeepSight:
Now that over a decade of the waters of time have run under the bridge, PastorAIO can you share with us how and where your worldview has evolved, especially with regard to spiritual/ existential matters - viz: the meaning of life.

You this man wey I dey run for before our hiatus. You don come grip me again.

You’ll probably tell from my recent posts that my attitude to Christianity and Abrahamic religions has taken quite a reversal.

From identifying with Christianity to leaving it behind as inadequate to where I am now where I actually see it as the foremost vehicle for satanism in the world.

Other than adherence and identification with Christianity my spiritual beliefs and practices have not changed one bit (I don’t think).

PastorAIO:


You this man wey I dey run for before our hiatus. You don come grip me again.

It is that fine and profound mind of yours that one is ever respectful of, and might I add, enlightened and inspired by.

You’ll probably tell from my recent posts that my attitude to Christianity and Abrahamic religions has taken quite a reversal.

Indeed I noted this, but hesitated to presume too much, given that you were always able to criticize Christianity and the Abrahamic religions even back then.

From identifying with Christianity to leaving it behind as inadequate to where I am now where I actually see it as the foremost vehicle for satanism in the world.

Now this is quite a revelation. Vehicle for satanism. Do you mean in the sense that people employ it for satanic ends or in the sense that it is itself an authentically and original satanic movement in the world.

DeepSight:




Now this is quite a revelation. Vehicle for satanism. Do you mean in the sense that people employ it for satanic ends or in the sense that it is itself an authentically and original satanic movement in the world.

Both. Abrahamics are intrinsically satanic and are used for satanic purposes.

PastorAIO:

Both. Abrahamics are intrinsically satanic and are used for satanic purposes.

Kai! Serious stuff there.
Is this related to your perception of the identity of Yahweh as you hinted in another thread/ the matter of human sacrifice.

Interesting thread.

DeepSight:


Kai! Serious stuff there.
Is this related to your perception of the identity of Yahweh as you hinted in another thread/ the matter of human sacrifice.

He who has ears to hear let him hear:

In the Levantine there is a category of creature known as djinn. They are formed from ‘smokeless fire’. Iblis , according to Islam, was such a djinn. He disobeyed allah and was cast out of heaven and became the king of the Satans.

Now if you go to the root of this whole calamity that has befallen us in this world what do we find.

We find it started with a discovery by Moses. Moses was in the wilderness when he saw a bush burning but was not getting consumed. In other words the bush was not being turned to smoke by the fire. The phenomenon he saw was SMOKELESS FIRE. He saw a djinn and he spoke to the djinn and the djinn spoke to him. That is where these religions started.

This has go to be the greatest deception in the whole of history.

PastorAIO:


He who has ears to hear let him hear:

In the Levantine there is a category of creature known as djinn. They are formed from ‘smokeless fire’. Iblis , according to Islam, was such a djinn. He disobeyed yhwh and was cast out of heaven and became the king of the Satans.

Now if you go to the root of this whole calamity that has befallen us in this world what do we find.

We find it started with a discovery by Moses. Moses was in the wilderness when he saw a bush burning but was not getting consumed. In other words the bush was being turned to smoke by the fire. The phenomenon he saw was SMOKELESS FIRE. He saw a djinn and he spoke to the djinn and the djinn spoke to him. That is where these religions started.

This has go to be the greatest deception in the whole of history.

Baba ke!

A001:
Interesting thread.

Ol boy how now.
Here is a handshake of peace.

DeepSight:


Ol boy how now.
Here is a handshake of peace.

Nice

PastorAIO:


He who has ears to hear let him hear:

In the Levantine there is a category of creature known as djinn. They are formed from ‘smokeless fire’. Iblis , according to Islam, was such a djinn. He disobeyed allah and was cast out of heaven and became the king of the Satans.

Now if you go to the root of this whole calamity that has befallen us in this world what do we find.

We find it started with a discovery by Moses. Moses was in the wilderness when he saw a bush burning but was not getting consumed. In other words the bush was being turned to smoke by the fire. The phenomenon he saw was SMOKELESS FIRE. He saw a djinn and he spoke to the djinn and the djinn spoke to him. That is where these religions started.

This has go to be the greatest deception in the whole of history.

To your assertions above, I present the following portion of the Scriptures. Look at the italicized words.


Ezekiel 28: 11 The word of YHVH came to me: 12 “Son of man, take up a lament concerning the king of Tyre and say to him: ‘This is what the Sovereign YHVH says:
“‘You were the seal of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. 13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone adorned you: carnelian, chrysolite and emerald, topaz, onyx and jasper, lapis lazuli, turquoise and beryl. Your settings and mountings were made of gold; on the day you were created they were prepared. 14 You were anointed as a guardian cherub, for so I ordained you. You were on the holy mount of God; you walked among the fiery stones. 15 You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created till wickedness was found in you.16 Through your widespread trade you were filled with violence, and you sinned. So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God, and I expelled you, guardian cherub, from among the fiery stones.

What if all the messengers (angels) - including the fallen ones - were made of/from the same source?