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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Why Did The Rich Man In Luke 16 Go To Hell? (14995 Views)
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Re: Why Did The Rich Man In Luke 16 Go To Hell? by Jumbojax(m): 11:25am On May 08, 2023 |
Kobojunkie:it wasn't a normal parable. Normal parables Jesus didn't use names. But in this one he did because that actually happened. Abraham Lazarus and the rich man are real ppl |
Re: Why Did The Rich Man In Luke 16 Go To Hell? by Jumbojax(m): 11:27am On May 08, 2023 |
The rich man was a narcissist who trusted in himself because he thought his riches could save him. Lazarus trusted in God. Just like Abraham and they were found together in Abrahams Bossom. |
Re: Why Did The Rich Man In Luke 16 Go To Hell? by Ken4Christ: 11:32am On May 08, 2023 |
mtngloetiartel: If you are a student of English language, you will know that so many words have multiple meaning. So, the usage of the word within the context determines the meaning. The word soul is used in two ways in the Bible First, it refers to the total man. For instance, if 5 persons died in an accident, we can say that five souls died. Second, it is also used to describe that part of man that cannot be seen. It is the intellectual centre of man. It consists of the mind, will and emotion. This is why a verse describes man as, spirit, soul and body. And if you do your research, the original Hebrew or Greek word for the two different usage of soul are not the same. Check my thread where I posted my book on the Total Man, you will get a very clear explanation on this. It is this second description of soul that does not die. It is eternal just like the spirit of man. |
Re: Why Did The Rich Man In Luke 16 Go To Hell? by MaxInDHouse(m): 11:45am On May 08, 2023 |
Ken4Christ: So who brainwashed all these people arguing with you on the topic? Ọmọ continue deceiving yourself! |
Re: Why Did The Rich Man In Luke 16 Go To Hell? by Ken4Christ: 11:49am On May 08, 2023 |
mtngloetiartel: Our Lord Jesus did not leave us in the dark as to what he really meant by hell. This is why he used different parables and many phrases to describe it and what happens there. That someone or group of persons translate hell as grave does not stop it from what it is. The good you will do yourself is to go through passages Jesus made references to hell and determine within the context he is speaking whether he is referring to a grave or something more than a grave. And don't limit yourself to one translation. You can never be honest to yourself about a controversial subject until you have examined every single scripture where the subject is discussed. But you only use scripture that appears to support your opinions and ignore others that clearly contradicts them, it points to gross dishonesty. And it could cost you your salvation. For instance, when Jesus talked about hell, he often used the phrase, 'cast into hell'. The word cast means throw. Do you throw people into graves? In some places, he said into the fire that shall never be quenched. Is there fire burning in the grave. Those who argue that he was referring to a valley in Jerusalem known as Gehenna are making great mistakes. This is because, the fire in Gehenna is no longer burning. And Jesus said that the fire in hell is never quenched. Again, he said that there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth there. Do lifeless bodies weep and gnash their teeth? Certainly not. He also used other term to describe the final place of punishment. Hell is not the final destination for lost souls. Those in hell will be released for final judgment on judgment day. The final destination is the Lake of Fire. This is what our Lord Jesus referred to as furnace of fire. He also called it everlasting fire. The torment in the Lake of Fire is far worse than that in hell. In hell, he said that there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. But in the Lake of Fire, he said that there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. The pains or torment will be so much that you can't weep anyone. Rather, you will wail. Please, repent before it is too late. |
Re: Why Did The Rich Man In Luke 16 Go To Hell? by Ken4Christ: 11:56am On May 08, 2023 |
BreconHills: Thank you. 1 Like |
Re: Why Did The Rich Man In Luke 16 Go To Hell? by NNTR: 11:57am On May 08, 2023 |
Ken4Christ:I totally 500% concur with every single thing, you've written in, immediate up here, and before being accused of being petty, will make only one adjustment, which is everywhere I see, 'hell', will replace it with 'Lake of Fire' Now Ken4Christ, dearest beloved, pleased the honours of sharing your answers to the simple below questions, 1. According to your understanding, do you really think that tormenting souls of human beings, in a way, that permanently continues and lasts forever, is something that God is looking forward to get pleasure from. Hmm? 2. According to your understanding, do you really believe that, ABBA, a good and loving Influencer, (i.e. God) will, non-stop barbecue burn human beings (i.e. human beings with souls and have intact flesh or bodies) and souls (i.e. human beings, with soul but are no more with flesh or bodies) in the lake of fire FOREVER Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories. |
Re: Why Did The Rich Man In Luke 16 Go To Hell? by Ken4Christ: 12:03pm On May 08, 2023 |
Barristter07: There is a difference between a spirit and a spirit being. Man is a spirit being. He is not a spirit. Angels too are spirit beings. Don't angels eat? Every part of man after death is complete. The only difference is that he is not in his physical body. He still looks complete in the realm of the spirit like he is in the physical. But he can't make contact with the physical world because he does not have a physical body. So, he still has hands, legs, mouth, eyes and teeth. Every part is complete. But he is in a spiritual form. |
Re: Why Did The Rich Man In Luke 16 Go To Hell? by Ken4Christ: 12:07pm On May 08, 2023 |
Barristter07: Our body looks like your spirit. A few people who narrated their near death experiences always say that they saw themselves come out of the their body and yet they still looked complete. It's like having a double. Some of them even said they saw people around their dead bodies but the people couldn't see them. They came back to life when their spirit entered back into their bodies. So, man in his spirit form as as complete as his physical form. The only difference is that he cannot make contact with the physical world unless he enters back into his body. |
Re: Why Did The Rich Man In Luke 16 Go To Hell? by Ken4Christ: 12:10pm On May 08, 2023 |
tete7000: The humiliation was permitting his dog to lick Lazarus sores. He could have chained his dogs. |
Re: Why Did The Rich Man In Luke 16 Go To Hell? by Kobojunkie: 1:21pm On May 08, 2023 |
Jumbojax:If it actually happened, then it ceases to be a parable and becomes instead a retelling of an actual event. By the way, where do you get this rule of yours that proverbs cannot contain mention of real names? Which school of thought is that idea from? |
Re: Why Did The Rich Man In Luke 16 Go To Hell? by eaglez(m): 1:27pm On May 08, 2023 |
Not really my brother, it was never a must for the rich man to help Lazarus, it was a 'should' like the rich man should have helped him. Nobody owes you anything, so we should forget this entitlement mentality. Secondly the parable is between Lazarus and the rich man, by extrapolation it means the rich man is not the only rich man in that story as there were several of them (I drew my conclusion from the heading of the story, Lazarus and the rich and not the richest man). Thirdly I see Lazarus as a very lazy man, no matter the outcome, u sat at the rich man's gate, his dogs were licking your wounds and he didn't make any efforts. Same as what we have in this modern parlance, person wey go help u no go stress you, if the rich man no help Lazarus, he should have looked elsewhere. Back to the reason he went to hell, read verse 27-30 it was clearly stated that he requested Lazarus to go back and preach to his brothers and you saw Abraham's response, meaning they preached the word of salvation to him but he failed to harken unto it. What led him to hell was he rejected the gospel of salvation. You may be rich, you may be a generous giver, you may have compassion on the poor but if you fail to receive and accept the gospel of salvation then you are hell bound. That was why it was a parable and the hidden truth has been misunderstood by people who only preach on giving but fail to consolidate the salvation part of the story. Ken4Christ: |
Re: Why Did The Rich Man In Luke 16 Go To Hell? by tete7000(m): 2:16pm On May 08, 2023 |
Ken4Christ: Even if he chained his dogs, there still wouldn't have been anything dignifying in a man eating from the scraps when he could have been invited to eat from the table. The rich man main sin is sin of indifference, one of not feeling the plight of another and do something to offer solace. |
Re: Why Did The Rich Man In Luke 16 Go To Hell? by Ken4Christ: 2:38pm On May 08, 2023 |
tete7000: Of course I said that. I don't dispute it. I only added that point to his sin. If the role the dog played wasn't important, it wouldn't have been recorded. It was added to show us how wicked the man was. Besides, the beggar only sought to eat the crumbs. The rich man did not even give him the crumbs to eat. Read the it below; Luke 16:21 And DESIRING TO BE FED with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. He desired it. The rich man did not give him the crumbs. If the narration had read, 'and he ate of the crumbs that fell from the rich man's table, it would have meant that the rich man willingly allowed him to do it. To desire a thing is not the same as having that same thing. If you have it, you won't have to desire it. 1 Like |
Re: Why Did The Rich Man In Luke 16 Go To Hell? by Ken4Christ: 2:47pm On May 08, 2023 |
eaglez: Nobody owes you anything is a worldly jargon used to evade your responsibility to others in need. It's not so on the kingdom of God. The parable of the sheep and goat made it clear. So many will go to hell for neglecting to help those in need within their power. You certainly can't help everyone but you should be able to do so to people who are close to you and even come for help. Enjoy your wealth alone. Don't help anyone. You will be in the line of goats on that day. The word of God is very clear on it. Despise it at your own peril. |
Re: Why Did The Rich Man In Luke 16 Go To Hell? by Jumbojax(m): 3:01pm On May 08, 2023 |
Kobojunkie:Comparison. Other parables are nameless. Once names are involved it's a story |
Re: Why Did The Rich Man In Luke 16 Go To Hell? by eaglez(m): 3:08pm On May 08, 2023 |
I love your assertion in your fourth paragraph, "you should" and not "you must". Please don't miss understood my position, it is good to help, it is good to give, it is good to have or show mercy and compassion to people around you but my point is having done or having the above character WITHOUT receiving the word of salvation,everything good you think you have done amounts to nothing. It was wrong for the preachers to only pick the fact that he did not help Lazarus made him go to hell, his going to hell was majorly because he did not listen to the prophets while he was alive and that he indirectly affirmed in verse 27-30. Parables are hidden words meant not to be easily understood in plain words but with much wisdom and deep thinking, you get the true picture. For the sheep and goat you mentioned, it is crystal clear that it is based on the characteristics of the subjects (in this case goat and sheep) every disobedient fellow is referred to a goat and the obedient one is a sheep. Lastly, if you are for Christ as your moniker says, take time to explain things well without being filled with rage leading to passing judgements or making conclusions that are often not necessary since it is not in your place to determine who ends up as sheep or goat. The thief crucified with Christ was a goat but at the last minute CHRIST HIMSELF made him sheep, it simply means mercy and grace found him at the last minute. Shalom! Ken4Christ: |
Re: Why Did The Rich Man In Luke 16 Go To Hell? by Whoknow: 3:42pm On May 08, 2023 |
NNTR:What is your stand in this? I mean your own opinion. |
Re: Why Did The Rich Man In Luke 16 Go To Hell? by Whoknow: 3:45pm On May 08, 2023 |
mtngloetiartel: I don't get you right. |
Re: Why Did The Rich Man In Luke 16 Go To Hell? by NNTR: 3:47pm On May 08, 2023 |
Re: Why Did The Rich Man In Luke 16 Go To Hell? by layzie: 3:49pm On May 08, 2023 |
[quote author=FRANCISTOWN post=123002749] I didn't say Isaac was not rich. I didn't say Abraham was not rich I didn't say David was not rich Genesis 25:5 And Abraham gave all that he had unto Isaac. Yet Isaac was broke, that he had to start from the bottom. The reason was because, all Abraham had left was blessings and gifts. He gave the blessings to Isaac and the gifts to other children. It was until after the death it Abraham that Isaac began to prosper Genesis 25:11 And it came to pass after the death of Abraham, that God blessed his son Isaac; and Isaac dwelt by the well Lahairoi. And here was how Genesis 26:12 Then Isaac sowed in that land, and received in the same year an hundredfold: and the LORD blessed him. Show me anywhere it is written in the Bible that Abraham gave material gifts to Isaac? Abraham was already broke. And as for David and Solomon 1 Chronicles 29:2 Now I have prepared with all my might for the house of my God the gold for things to be made of gold, and the silver for things of silver, and the brass for things of brass, the iron for things of iron, and wood for things of wood; onyx stones, and stones to be set, glistering stones, and of divers colours, and all manner of precious stones, and marble stones in abundance. What's does it mean to give with all your might? It simply means David gave his all. All that he had. If David left great inheritance for Solomon, why would god be impressed that Solomon didn't ask for riches but wisdom? Solomon became rich through gifts, gifts and Women.[/quote Can u pls summaries, cos I seem to be missing exactly what your point is |
Re: Why Did The Rich Man In Luke 16 Go To Hell? by Whoknow: 3:53pm On May 08, 2023 |
Kobojunkie:I don't understand what you are saying. |
Re: Why Did The Rich Man In Luke 16 Go To Hell? by layzie: 4:01pm On May 08, 2023 |
FRANCISTOWN: I seem to be missing exactly what your point is.. Pls summarise or just state the point |
Re: Why Did The Rich Man In Luke 16 Go To Hell? by Kobojunkie: 5:07pm On May 08, 2023 |
Jumbojax:But where did you get the rule in bold from? Did Jesus Christ give you that rule himself or the English language or what? |
Re: Why Did The Rich Man In Luke 16 Go To Hell? by mtngloetiartel: 5:46pm On May 08, 2023 |
Where u are not getting it right is when you go beyond Bible teachings. U can't used imperfect man-made theology to give credence to what the Bible is saying. The word of God is superior to man's understanding. Know this first and always keep it at the back of ur mind. Ur explanation of soul doesn't fit in with what the Bible teaches. For instance, where does the bible state or teaches that there are 2 types of souls? Try support ur assertions with the scriptures. I never even give u all the examples where the bible refer to soul. Do you know that Animals too are refer to as souls in the Bible? Gen. 1:20, 21, 24, 25: “God went on to say: ‘Let the waters swarm forth a swarm of living souls* . . . ’ And God proceeded to create the great sea monsters and every living soul that moves about, which the waters swarmed forth according to their kinds, and every winged flying creature according to its kind. . . . And God went on to say: ‘Let the earth put forth living souls according to their kinds . . . ’ And God proceeded to make the wild beast of the earth according to its kind and the domestic animal according to its kind and every moving animal of the ground according to its kind.” (*In Hebrew the word here is neʹphesh. Ro reads “soul.” Some translations use the rendering “creature[s].”)Lev. 24:17, 18: “In case a man strikes any soul [Hebrew, neʹphesh] of mankind fatally, he should be put to death without fail. And the fatal striker of the soul [Hebrew, neʹphesh] of a domestic animal should make compensation for it, soul for soul.” (Notice that the same Hebrew word for soul is applied to both mankind and animals.)Rev. 16:3: “It became blood as of a dead man, and every living soul* died, yes, the things in the sea.” (Thus the Christian Greek Scriptures also show animals to be souls.) (*In Greek the word here is psy·kheʹ. KJ, AS, and Dy render it “soul.” Some translators use the term “creature” or “thing.”) “There is no dichotomy [division] of body and soul in the O[ld] T[estament]. The Israelite saw things concretely, in their totality, and thus he considered men as persons and not as composites. The term nepeš [neʹphesh], though translated by our word soul, never means soul as distinct from the body or the individual person. . . . The term [psy·kheʹ] is the N[ew] T[estament] word corresponding with nepeš. It can mean the principle of life, life itself, or the living being.”—New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967), Vol. XIII, pp. 449, 450.“The Hebrew term for ‘soul’ (nefesh, that which breathes) was used by Moses . . . , signifying an ‘animated being’ and applicable equally to nonhuman beings. . . . New Testament usage of psychē (‘soul’) was comparable to nefesh.”—The New Encyclopædia Britannica (1976), Macropædia, Vol. 15, p. 152.“The belief that the soul continues its existence after the dissolution of the body is a matter of philosophical or theological speculation rather than of simple faith, and is accordingly nowhere expressly taught in Holy Scripture.”—The Jewish Encyclopedia (1910), Vol. VI, p. 564. Ken4Christ: |
Re: Why Did The Rich Man In Luke 16 Go To Hell? by Kobojunkie: 5:53pm On May 08, 2023 |
Whoknow:Be specific! What part confuses you. |
Re: Why Did The Rich Man In Luke 16 Go To Hell? by NNTR: 8:21pm On May 08, 2023 |
Kobojunkie:Dont mind him Jumbojax Jokes, at times, contain names of real people, just as proverbs, at times as well, can for effect, make mention of real names Jumbojax:All parables are stories, however, not all stories are parables Parables, mentioning people's names doesnt disqualify or negate them, from being called parables Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories. |
Re: Why Did The Rich Man In Luke 16 Go To Hell? by mtngloetiartel: 8:34pm On May 08, 2023 |
It is very clear. Adam died the day he ate the forbidden fruit. The proof is in the bible. God cannot lie (Titus 1:2) 2Peter 3:8 remind us that a day before God is 1000 years. Adam didn't lived up to a day (1000 years). The Bible record that Adam lived 930 years (Gen. 5:5) So, the explanation of Gen.2:17 that Adam died a spiritual death after eating the forbidden fruit is false Whoknow: |
Re: Why Did The Rich Man In Luke 16 Go To Hell? by Jumbojax(m): 8:37pm On May 08, 2023 |
NNTR:True true but this case it has to be a real life narrative. Other scriptures proves that old testament saints were in a place that wasn't heaven. But a paradise e.g Luke 23:42-43 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. The thief is asking for heaven but Jesus is promising him a paradise with Him. And we know Jesus went to hell for 3 days after he died. Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. Abrahams Bossom is not heaven but a paradise beside hell for old testament believers like Lazarus cause the way to heaven wasn't opened until Jesus died |
Re: Why Did The Rich Man In Luke 16 Go To Hell? by Jumbojax(m): 8:38pm On May 08, 2023 |
Kobojunkie:It's not a rule just an understanding of the context |
Re: Why Did The Rich Man In Luke 16 Go To Hell? by Kobojunkie: 8:40pm On May 08, 2023 |
Jumbojax:1. So you came up with this rule all by yourself and assert it on the story just cause? For reals? |
Re: Why Did The Rich Man In Luke 16 Go To Hell? by Jumbojax(m): 8:44pm On May 08, 2023 |
Kobojunkie:like I said, not a rule |
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