bigfrancis21:
Even my own native enugwu-ukwu people in anambra state use 'wu' instead of 'bu'. They say 'ive owuna' instead of 'ife obuna'.

I was listening to Morocco Maduka's song yesterday and I heard where he spoke 'oro' for house. I was surprised for I thought 'oro' was only spoken by the ikwerre people to mean house [ulo - olo (the igbanke people say olo) -oro]. I went back a few minutes just to be sure of what I heard and it was the same. I do know Morocco is from anambra and the dialect he used was pure anambra dialect. It then follows thatt he was singing in his particular anambra dialect and which means that an area of anambra say 'oro' instead of 'uno'. From the foregoing it means that Ikwerre is just as valid as any other Igbo dialect and it shares more similarities with Awka dialect, and a little more with Owerri dialect.

There are variances in every town in Anambra but we speak very similar dialect and we don't have any difficulty in understanding each other like you have in other states. Umuoji,Abatete and Nkpor are from the same lineage but there are words that are exclusive to each of these towns. For example,Umuoji say "kam wuo aru" ,while Nkpor says "kam saa aru" but we are form the same projenitor,Okodu. I'm very surprise you don't know Morocco Maduka was from Anambra! You must have not heard a single Igbo in your life...quite sad! Do you also doubt Ozoemena Nsugbe is from Anambra and Osadebe and Oliver de coque ? The only person an Anambrarian is gonna be mistaken for is and Enugite. Deme!

Abagworo:

Thank you very much for writing about what even older Anambra men in their 30s have little knowledge about. I once argued with an Anambrian on this forum that Awka, Nnewi, Ihiala and Oraukwu spoke different dialects but he started abusing me. I even went on to tell him that some dialects were interwoven between Imo and Anambra like Akokwa/Uga, Orsumoghu/Awo, mgbidi/Ihe mbosi/Uli and several others.

Yes,Nnewi,Awka,Ihiala and Oraukwu(Idenmili) speak differently but the dialects are intelligible amongst these sections. But when Idenmili,Ogbaru,Dunukofia,Anaocha,Njikoka,Onicha,Oyi,part of Anambra east and west speaks an outsider will never differenciate who is who among them but we know ourselves. And these are really the defined Nri decendants. Now,we have Nnewi,Ihiala,Orumba and the rest of the southern Anambra who has a little variety but they are still very much part of the core Omanbala family. Anambra groups are well defined and we know ourselves.

Odenigbo Aroli:

There are variances in every town in Anambra but we speak very similar dialect and we don't have any difficulty in understanding each other like you have in other states. Umuoji,Abatete and Nkpor are from the same lineage but there are words that are exclusive to each of these towns. For example,Umuoji say "kam wuo aru" ,while Nkpor says "kam saa aru" but we are form the same projenitor,Okodu. I'm very surprise you don't know Morocco Maduka was from Anambra! You must have not heard a single Igbo in your life...quite sad! Do you also doubt Ozoemena Nsugbe is from Anambra and Osadebe and Oliver de coque ? The only person an Anambrarian is gonna be mistaken for is and Enugite. Deme!

@bolded...geez! For shizzle?

I've always known Morocco is from Anambra! Since like forever. I've not always been a fan of his songs until recently.

The aim of my post was to express surprise that one anambra dialect use 'oro' for house instead of the day-to-day 'uno' that is widely spoken. My surprise stems from the fact that I had always thought that 'oro' was only peculiar to the Ikwerre people until I listened to that particular track of Morocco.

@bigfrancis,I'm sorry. I misunderstood you.

Wanri, you're too eager to jump and say something, never really taking your time to read and comprehend.

ChinenyeN:
Nze, the name, and the "Nze" in the Nze/Ozo titleship could simply be coincidence. So far, no evidence has been discovered to suggest that the two are mutually inclusive.

There is no evidence so far that suggests the two are mutually inclusive, which in layman's terms would mean that you cannot use one to judge the occurrence of the other. That's all I've been saying the entire time. Now, put that back in context of Yujin's post and you'll see there is nothing to get jumpy about.

As for the name, I called back home and inquired about it, like I told Odumchi I would in that other thread. From what was explained to me, the actual name is Nzenwa. Nzenwata is considered back home as some kind of ohnuhnu-nization. It sounds understandable, particularly since we don't use 'nwata' in our lect. From what was explained to me, the term 'nze' has its etymology from ize (to duck or dodge). When the name is given to a child it is typically one of two things. Either the name is professing some kind of good luck or good fortune from having had the child, or the child was born during some fortunate period of the family's history. That's what was conveyed to me.

People should be reminded that Nze isn't a completely new word for the title, Nze the title means 'guardian', while Ozo means saviour.

Aghamelum LGA in Anambra state is another town with a strange language so differently from other towns.
What could be the cause of this variation frm this wonderful people?

achi4u: Aghamelum LGA in Anambra state is another town with a strange language so differently from other towns.
What could be the cause of this variation frm this wonderful people?

What does their dialect sound like?

odumchi:

What does their dialect sound like?

Too had to understand and even a Rev fr. from the same state can't preach without interpreter,this one happend in my presence not a hearsay.Maybe they are related to Kogi people SMH.

ezeagu:

No, standard Igbo only uses bu. I may have been wrong about Ngwa, but I can guarantee 100% that some parts of Umuahia at least use wu. Central Igbo was based on the Ohuhu dialect of Umuahia with some other influences and changes such as the wu to bu.

The only way to be sure is to ask an Umuahia person.

Ohuhu in umuahia uses 'wu'.

achi4u: Too had to understand and even a Rev fr. from the same state can't preach without interpreter,this one happend in my presence not a hearsay.Maybe they are related to Kogi people SMH.

Ayamelum dialects are a bit hard,but still igbo in all sense of it.

Yujin: In my dialect, we use 'ghu' for 'bu', 'gu' for 'gi'; arunshi for alusi etc.
While going through my genealogy, I came across a name 'Nwanri'. This got me thinking wide... possible Nri connection. However, some of my people say its an arochukwu warrior that founded my town but if so, why is it called Umunze when it is clear that the Aros did/do not practise the nze titleship?
Again, the large Ikoro (about the size of 2000ltrs GP tank) found in each of the villages that constitute my town was said to have been carved by some men from Umudioka(whether that of Awkuzu or Dunukofia, I know not).
Generally, communities that are close tend to have that sense of kinship because interactions over the years help shape their separate dialects to be more similar hence the Idemili/Oshimili similarity, Orumba/ Isuochi-Okigwe similarity, Uratta-Mbaise/Etche similarity etc.
Finally, their are many dialects in Anambra but we are comfortable with Onitsha dialect or Igbo Izugbe yet when we converge in our local assemblies, the common dialect rules.
4gbo nine bu ofu.

I don't believe that the similarity observed in the dialect of some igbo tribes are just because of proximity. That's just my thought.

On Nze izo ezema,the founder of umunzeh being from arochukwu,i doubt that . But i believe he must have come from the eastern borders of igboland now occupied by the edda,bende groups(umuhu ezechi,igbere,etc) ,aro,ohafia and abriba.

These groups that now occupy those eastern parts of igbolands,were once domiciled in the present cross river and akwa ibom(itu caves) areas, i believe that it was the upward push of the ibibios and efiks that sent these present eastern igbos into a mass migration(a migration that i believe is a big factor in the present small size igboland,unlike the anioma groups,these groups failed to maintain the eastern flank of igboland,they lost out to the ibibios and efiks) into those area their occupy now.

These group of retreating igbos didn't meet those eastern parts of igboland they presently occupy empty. Infact, edda people has it in their oral history that they met and drove away clans of people called Leru, Lokpa,Nkerehi and amasiri from the land they presently occupy.

Leru and Lokpa are parts of Umuchieze town in umunneochi lga today. And the funny thing is that lokpa people have an oral tradition that say that they came from arochukwu. I think what they meant to say was that they once occupied the eastern parts of igboland.

Isuochi and Nneato people in the same Umunneochi,believes they once occupied the eastern parts of igbo land,some of them point at Ohafia in particular.

I don't think it's a coincidence that all these groups speak similar dialect and occupy a contagious area today.

I believe that umunze,just like isuochi,Nneato,Nkerehi and umuchieze( leru,lokpa) were the original occupants of the lands we call, ohafia,abam abiriba,etc. I believe they got displaced by these igbo groups that unceremoniously failed to keep the ancient eastern flank of the igbo nation,as they lost out to the ibibios and efiks.

That's just my hypothesis, anyway. *grins*

Pazienza, I hope you're aware that the Cross River Region was just recently settled by the peoples who are now recognized as Igbo. Ohafia and Aro oral traditions tell us that there was a general migration of peoples from both sides of the River Cross River into northern Abia and southern Ebonyi around the 16th or 17th centuries.

These peoples intruded into territory that was then occupied by various Ibibio peoples, and through years of vicious warfare, pushed them southwards. There was no "eastern Igbo flank", for at that time the concept of Igbo as an ethnic nation was nonexistent; people simply existed and related with each other on the basis of clans and lineages. Prior to the advent of the Cross River Igbo into northern Abia, much of northern Abia was basically Ibibio territory.

Northern Abia and southern Ebonyi were just made Igbo frontiers not too long ago, is what I'm trying to say. Moreover, it served as the launching point of the last great wave of Igbo migration. This wave of migration was prompted by the Aro and Ohafia peoples who travelled to various corners of [what is now] Igboland (and even beyond), establishing settlements and trading outposts, and marrying into the local peoples. Much of Abia (the area north of Ngwa and Ohuhu) is heavily mixed in terms of origin (Aro, Ohafia, Isu, etc).

odumchi: Pazienza, I hope you're aware that the Cross River Region was just recently settled by the peoples who are now recognized as Igbo. Ohafia and Aro oral traditions tell us that there was a general migration of peoples from both sides of the River Cross River into northern Abia and southern Ebonyi around the 16th or 17th centuries.

These peoples intruded into territory that was then occupied by various Ibibio peoples, and through years of vicious warfare, pushed them southwards. There was no "eastern Igbo flank", for at that time the concept of Igbo as an ethnic nation was nonexistent; people simply existed and related with each other on the basis of clans and lineages. Prior to the advent of the Cross River Igbo into northern Abia, much of northern Abia was basically Ibibio territory.

Northern Abia and southern Ebonyi were just made Igbo frontiers not too long ago, is what I'm trying to say. Moreover, it served as the launching point of the last great wave of Igbo migration. This wave of migration was prompted by the Aro and Ohafia peoples who travelled to various corners of [what is now] Igboland (and even beyond), establishing settlements and trading outposts, and marrying into the local peoples. Much of Abia (the area north of Ngwa and Ohuhu) is heavily mixed in terms of origin (Aro, Ohafia, Isu, etc).

Oral history of Edda and Abam has it that they,together with aro,and bende groups,once occupied the area around itu caves in akwaibom area.
I believe the fight for the land now called arochukwu,was these people attempt at claiming back what use to be their territory.

The lands we call eastern/cross river igbo,has always been occupied by the igbo. The oral history of umunze,nkerehi,isuochi,nneato, umuchieze people supports this.

The aros,ohafia,abiriba people that recently occupied these areas,came from a more eastern direction in the present akwaibom and cross river.

Of course,there was no igbo nation then. I was just using that to point out how the failure of these groups to maintain the lands they were originally settled in,helped to make igboland of today,small in landmass with a big population density.

This is a part of igbo history no one have ever looked into,all these while,all we had been fed was how brave these present eastern igbos were. Looking at the bigger picture now,i don't think they were that brave,if they were,itu and it enviroment would have still be occupied by them.

Nri was pushed southwards by the igala,into an already igbo occupied area, the ezza and izzi were equally pushed into a more southern direction by the benue groups, nsukka wasnt able to do much better against their non igbo neighbours, the southern igbo groups never knew the importance of sea access, the eastern flank got whopped by the ibibios and efiks,and they fled into territories already occupied by igbo tribes whom they shamelessly take glory in stating that they won in a battle and displaced them into the central igbo areas today, but pride wouldn't let them tell us how they were displaced from their original itu abode. *grins*

These ancient igbo niggas were cowards in my book,their strenght starts and ends against fellow igbo tribes, they were 'Agu uno' in every sense of that word.

I don't think they would have survived the usman dan fodio invasion that awaited them,if the whites didn't alter the natural order of things.

Only the Anioma are worthy of praise,thanks to their organisation and bravery, we still maintained our western borders.

pazienza: Nri was pushed southwards by the igala,into an already igbo occupied area, the ezza and izzi were equally pushed into a more southern direction by the benue groups, nsukka wasnt able to do much better against their non igbo neighbours, the southern igbo groups never knew the importance of sea access, the eastern flank got whopped by the ibibios and efiks,and they fled into territories already occupied by igbo tribes whom they shamelessly take glory in stating that they won in a battle and displaced them into the central igbo areas today, but pride wouldn't let them tell us how they were displaced from their original itu abode. *grins*

These ancient igbo niggas were cowards in my book,their strenght starts and ends against fellow igbo tribes, they were 'Agu uno' in every sense of that word.

I don't think they would have survived the usman dan fodio invasion that awaited them,if the whites didn't alter the natural order of things.

Only the Anioma are worthy of praise,thanks to their organisation and bravery, we still maintained our western borders.

Arochukwu is built on Ibibio lands though, and until the early 20th century the Nri were crowning Idah (Igala) kings. I'm not saying an Igbo group counted no losses, but it's an exaggeration to say all of them were pushed out of an original homeland.

Actually, I don't know an Igbo group that was pushed out of their homeland, except if by another Igbo group to a new land.

pazienza:

Oral history of Edda and Abam has it that they,together with aro,and bende groups,once occupied the area around itu caves in akwaibom area.
I believe the fight for the land now called arochukwu,was these people attempt at claiming back what use to be their territory.

The lands we call eastern/cross river igbo,has always been occupied by the igbo. The oral history of umunze,nkerehi,isuochi,nneato, umuchieze people supports this.

The aros,ohafia,abiriba people that recently occupied these areas,came from a more eastern direction in the present akwaibom and cross river.

I'm not familiar with the segment of Edda/Aro history that says this. What I do know is that the Cross River Igbo are relative newcomers to the land they now inhabit. Edda and Ohafia have non-Igbo elements that originated east of the Cross River; the Aro people, on the other hand were formed by various waves of migration by different peoples coming from different directions. In short, I don't believe that northern Abia was ever originally Igbo territory. Analyzing the movement of peoples into that area as an attempt to "regain lost land" seems like an oversimplification, if you ask me.

Wow!

Pazienza & co. you guys are awesome in Igbo migrational histroy.Looking at SEastern map one may think that Igboland territroy is to too small compare to what is on ground.
So,our people could not hold their ground when their neghbours come calling?lol

Igbo territroy is not all that small when it come to land mass,rather what we need is a collective developmnt.

I'd say that Pazienza is reaching for a conclusion. Much of the migration and displacement that occurred, in respect to many of the now "Igbo" groups, is of rather recent history (between early 16th and late 18th centuries, if we are to take Igbo historians seriously). Oral traditions that have so far been collected report little about inter-migrations or displacement, prior to this time-period. The oral traditions of the now "eastern Igbo" clearly emphasizes the relative newness of their communities. So, using the Edda and Itu caves as a case-in-point to emphasize the claiming of lost territory seems like a stretch. A more reasonable conclusion to make (a conclusion with less assumption), would be that the Edda community has definite elements which trace themselves from a more easterly direction. In short, an attempt to claim eastern/Cross River area as always having been occupied by "Igbo" is simply speculation without a serious foundation.

I also don't understand how the oral traditions of Umunze, Nkerehi, Isuochi, etc. can be cited as evidence. These groups belong to the Isu stretch of communities, and do not constitute any part of the "Cross River" subcultural zone.

I love this thread with passion. Very informative and educative. In short everybody here deserves one cow(ofu efi, ofu efi, onye ewekwana ibuo oo) odenigbo,ezeagu,achi,odumchi,yujin,pazienza et al....thumbs up!

ChinenyeN: I'd say that Pazienza is reaching for a conclusion. Much of the migration and displacement that occurred, in respect to many of the now "Igbo" groups, is of rather recent history (between early 16th and late 18th centuries, if we are to take Igbo historians seriously). Oral traditions that have so far been collected report little about inter-migrations or displacement, prior to this time-period. The oral traditions of the now "eastern Igbo" clearly emphasizes the relative newness of their communities. So, using the Edda and Itu caves as a case-in-point to emphasize the claiming of lost territory seems like a stretch. A more reasonable conclusion to make (a conclusion with less assumption), would be that the Edda community has definite elements which trace themselves from a more easterly direction. In short, an attempt to claim eastern/Cross River area as always having been occupied by "Igbo" is simply speculation without a serious foundation.

I also don't understand how the oral traditions of Umunze, Nkerehi, Isuochi, etc. can be cited as evidence. These groups belong to the Isu stretch of communities, and do not constitute any part of the "Cross River" subcultural zone.

It would appear you didn't go through my posts well.

I see (just reread through your post). I can understand where you're coming from now. I'm surprised I missed that completely. That's the kind of mistake I at least try not to make. Anyway, a curious thought occurred to me, after having read through your post again (and also having opened up one of the books I have on Igbo oral traditions).

That curious thought was this: What has thus far been established and verified is that the Ibibio were settled in the area prior to Aro, Ohafia, Abiriba, etc. having displaced them. Now, with nothing else to go on, except the claim of having come from the east, how possible could it be that the ancestors of what is now Umunze, Isuochi, etc. once constituted the now displaced Ibibio population? That would be interesting. It's either that or some "Igbo" elements were living contiguous with Ibibio at that time, but one would have to find a way to explain that.

ChinenyeN: Wanri, you're too eager to jump and say something, never really taking your time to read and comprehend.



There is no evidence so far that suggests the two are mutually inclusive, which in layman's terms would mean that you cannot use one to judge the occurrence of the other. That's all I've been saying the entire time. Now, put that back in context of Yujin's post and you'll see there is nothing to get jumpy about.

As for the name, I called back home and inquired about it, like I told Odumchi I would in that other thread. From what was explained to me, the actual name is Nzenwa. Nzenwata is considered back home as some kind of ohnuhnu-nization. It sounds understandable, particularly since we don't use 'nwata' in our lect. From what was explained to me, the term 'nze' has its etymology from ize (to duck or dodge). When the name is given to a child it is typically one of two things. Either the name is professing some kind of good luck or good fortune from having had the child, or the child was born during some fortunate period of the family's history. That's what was conveyed to me.

And there is no evidence that suggests that the two aren't mutually inclusive. The problem with you sometimes is that you too stubborn to accept a glanring truth. In Anambra we say Izelu Ozo,onye Nze,Nze na Ozo,Nzenwata. Now,depending on how you use the word,"nze",the meaning might change. The explanation you gave about "Nzenwa" is not different from how I can be described in Anambra,sometimes. For example anybody by the name nwa-Nze,Nze-nwata,Ozo-nnia are known to be rich kids because those names are given to boys that was given the noble title at a very young age and that defines how rich the father is. There is a very popular phrases in my town that says "onye na ejiro aku adi echi Ozo","Nga aghalu ebe ana echi Ozo jebe ebe ana alu agwu". My point is to let you know that Nze na Ozo is a prestigious title for wealthy people. So,your people who name their children with "Nze" in their name are not fools. They know the fame that comes with Nze na Ozo and the names attached to it. Chinenye that name originated from Nri!

Sigh. Nnaa, there is evidence. The fact that there exists 'Nze' place names in communities without even a hint of the Nze institution is enough to suggest a lack of mutual inclusivity.

ChinenyeN: Sigh. Nnaa, there is evidence. The fact that there exists 'Nze' place names in communities without the Nze institution is enough to suggest a lack of mutual inclusivity.

One needs serious interaction with different parts of Igbo to understand some of the issues. Odenigbo needs to come a bit South and interact with villagers. I personally did that at Igbanke because of one argument we had once. Someone like him cannot interact with an Owerri man. I bet he can't even translate this normal Owerri phrase "imela kpole daa". "Nze" is same as "ize" and means "to avoid". Nzerem means "let me avoid evil" -"Nzerem hw'ojoo" or "ka mu zelu ife ojoo" in the Igbo Odenigbo understands and is quite a common name around Owerri area. Some of them shorten it to "Nze" but "Nze" is also a known culture around Owerri even though the name has nothing to do with it.

Doesn't ze also mean being allergic or disgusted or even angered by something, or is that a different word/words?

I've been listening to Morocco Maduka's songs lately and I noticed that he makes use of the phrase 'Olu na Igbo' instead of only 'Igbo' to refer to the Igbo people. He also said this several times: "ndi ilo m jelu Olu jee Igbo". The olu has the same pronunciation with 'olu' for 'neck' or 'voice'. Now I want to know the people exactly he refers to when he says 'Olu'? Or what does 'Olu' mean in his usage/context?

In what song did you hear that?

odumchi: In what song did you hear that?

I got the track from a friend and it just says 'Morocco Maduka'. I don't know its actual title. The song is about how his enemies tried to kill him but how their plan foiled.
Please can you explain what 'olu' might mean?