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Igbo In The 1700's - Culture (5) - Nairaland

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Re: Igbo In The 1700's by Ihuomadinihu: 11:57pm On Sep 13, 2014
ezeagu:

Vassa was kidnapped around age 11 and wrote the book in his 40s, he openly admitted to having reconstructed parts of his description of 'Eboe' from the accounts of his fellow 'Eboe' 'countrymen'. It could have been that Vassa had unknowingly adopted some false memories from the tales of his comrades which is why it's so difficult to pinpoint where he could have come from. There could have been an Essaka that no longer exists because it was either wiped out or incorporated into another population and forgotten (by the wider world). It's also possible that it could have been a smaller hamlet than in Gustavus memory, or that he mispronounced the name or got the name wrong.

My opinion is that he's from the West because he explained crossing a massive river that of which had a body of water he had never seen before, (which I believe is the Niger), and I believe his captors were travelling towards the south east and were coming down to the region between Brass and Bonny. I think it's even likely that he was held around the Abonnema/Buguma Kalabari people who were the ones that he stayed with and liked. From here he would have been taken to the coast. The people with 'harsh' scars were probably the people we now know as Ijo in the Yenagoa are.
He would have been sold in Badgary if he was captured in the West. Why do we choose to conflict issues when we already have facts and evidence.

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Re: Igbo In The 1700's by ezeagu(m): 12:16am On Sep 14, 2014
bigfrancis21:

@bold 1...i'd like you to quote the pages from his memoir he said that.

@bold 2...That large sea body was the atlantic ocean or middle passage. Olaudah never mentioned crossing any water bed or river until he got to the slave port at the atlantic ocean where he was sold. If he was from the west and sold at the bight of bonny(opobo or calabar), he would have encountered the first river, river niger, crossing from asaba to onitsha, travelling on foot for some months and then finally meeting the atlantic ocean where he was sold off. Or better still, he would have ridden in a boat along river niger down to brass/opobo where he would meet the slave ship and be finally sold off. But this seems unlikely because of two reasons:
1) Olaudah mentioned that he travelled on foot till he got to the atlantic ocean. He never encountered any water body before that time.
2) The only time Olaudah mentioned meeting a river body and the slave ship that carried him was when he arrived the atlantic ocean at either opobo or calabar. The slave ship docking at river Niger seems totally unlikely as the river Niger would have had to be dredged to permit the huge slave ship of several layers of cabinet, huge enough to fit thousands of slaves, to dock there. Till today, the river Niger still needs to be dredged to enable direct ship docking there. Moreso, slave masters did not venture directly into the Igbo heartland area scouting for slaves - Igbo slaves were captured from the heartland and transported southwards to Opobo and Calabar to be sold off to the enslavers. Because if you claim the river Olaudah met was river Niger, then you are implying that slave ships ventured deep into the Igbo heartland at Onitsha/Asaba to dock there where Olaudah was sold. No slave record has shown that slaves were bought at the River Niger.

"Vassa did not claim that his description of the interior of the Bight of Biafra was entirely based on his own experiences. He did note that his account was an ‘‘imperfect sketch my memory has furnished me with the manners and customs of a people among whom I first drew my breath,’’ and acknowledged that he had gained information from some of the ‘‘numbers of the natives of Eboe’’ he encountered in London. His discussions in London influenced what he wrote, just as his quotations from Anthony Benezet and other sources did, but the weight of evidence still indicates that Vassa had firsthand knowledge of Africa."
Olaudah Equiano or Gustavus Vassa - What’s in a Name? (2012) by Paul E. Lovejoy

"At last I came to the banks of a large river, which was covered with canoes, in which the people [non Igbo speakers] appeared to live with their household utensils and provisions of all kinds. I was beyond measure astonished at this, as I had never before seen any water larger than a pond or a rivulet, and my surprise was mingled with no small fear when I was put into one of these canoes and we began to paddle and move along the river."
The Life of Olaudah Equiano, Or Gustavus Vassa, the African (1837), Gustavus Vassa, pg 41
Re: Igbo In The 1700's by Ihuomadinihu: 12:28am On Sep 14, 2014
I don't think we are interested in who wrote whatever. He wrote about Igbos not Western Nigeria,period. Na wa o.
Re: Igbo In The 1700's by bigfrancis21: 1:17am On Sep 14, 2014
Ihuomadinihu:
Guy,are you igbo at all.
So all the igbo culture and words in his narrative links up with Western Nigeria?
I have a lot to write but i will start from the harsh scars. Have you read about the Nri igbos and the scarification? These scars were for noble men known as Mgburuichi.
Ichi marks were done on men who venerated the Sun called Anyanwu in Igbo.

Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs. He believes Olaudah Ikwuano, with his Igbo sounding name, who spoke Igbo and called himself Igbo was from the west. He's free to have whatever belief he wants to have.

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Re: Igbo In The 1700's by Ihuomadinihu: 6:08am On Sep 14, 2014
bigfrancis21:

Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs. He believes Olaudah Ikwuano, with his Igbo sounding name, who spoke Igbo and called himself Igbo was from the west. He's free to have whatever belief he wants to have.
Yeah,the whole thing is funny.
Re: Igbo In The 1700's by ezeagu(m): 8:47am On Sep 14, 2014
That's Western Igbo not south western Nigeria.
Re: Igbo In The 1700's by pazienza(m): 8:54am On Sep 14, 2014
Ashaka sounds like Essaka. But Isieke is totally different fron Essaka. Bigfrancis, your description is detailed,but i would still stick with my Ukwuani origin of Olaudah.

Ezeagu. Thanks for providing further details on the Ukwuani angle.
Re: Igbo In The 1700's by ChinenyeN(m): 3:59pm On Sep 14, 2014
ezeagu: That's Western Igbo not south western Nigeria.
I'm actually disappointed that you had to make this post. I'd have like to think that they would have understood you meant Western Igbo geographical region, especially considering the context of the discussion at that particular time. Anyway..

@Topic .. If people want to be serious about transcribing words from that era (1700s) into our present day, then the lack of an orthography at that time really needs to be emphasized. Without an orthography to reference, we have only to follow the logic used by English speakers to write English words.

When the letter 'e' begins a word, it almost always will sound like the 'e' in 'even', save for a few instances in which it will sound like the 'e' in 'elephant'. To that end, the 'e' in Essaka most likely transcribes as 'i' in the current Igbo orthography.

The dual 'ss' is certainly not an 'sh' sound. The 'sh' letter combination can be well attested as being in use in the 1700s for words like 'ship', 'shade', etc. If Vassa wanted to say 'sh', we would know it. To that end, the 'ss' (cite: 'essence', 'abscess', 'adulteress', etc.) most certainly transcribes as 's' in the current Igbo orthography.

Similar to the letter 'e', if the letter 'a' begins a word, it will almost always sound like sound like the 'a' in 'after', save for a few instances in which it will sound like the 'a' in 'all' (both are variations of the same 'ah' sound). Now, when found within a word, the letter 'a' generally still takes on variants of the 'ah' sound. However, there are a few instances in which it will sound like the 'a' in 'cake' (cite: 'bake', 'take'). To that end, we are looking at two possible transcriptions for Essaka, being either 'Isaka' or 'Iseke'.

From my understanding, it seems less likely that 'Iseke' would be the proper transcription. My reasoning for this is simple: To properly transcribe the 'e' sound in our current Igbo orthography into the English logic in the 1700s, we would have to write 'ay' (cite: 'away', 'day', 'stay' etc.). If Vassa wanted to write 'Iseke', then the Essaka we are discussing would most likely have been 'Essakay'.

So of the two (Isaka/Iseke), Isaka is the best approximate transcription for Essaka.

Now, considering that we are looking at a possible Western Igbo (Anioma) origin for Vassa, then there is an off chance that the 'e' in Essaka might be representative of the 'e' sound found in 'elephant'. One morphological feature of some [maybe most?] Anioma tongues is that the 'ah' sound (take 'aka' [hand] for example) can sometimes be rendered as 'ehn' ('eka'), similar to the 'e' in 'elephant'.

To that end, it is plausible that we might be looking at either Isaka or Asaka (pronounced 'ehn-saka') as the best approximate transcriptions of Essaka. If we follow the writing rules in English, it would be unlikely to be anything else.
Re: Igbo In The 1700's by bigfrancis21: 5:28pm On Sep 14, 2014
pazienza: Ashaka sounds like Essaka. But Isieke is totally different fron Essaka. Bigfrancis, your description is detailed,but i would still stick with my Ukwuani origin of Olaudah.

Ezeagu. Thanks for providing further details on the Ukwuani angle.

I said Isseke, and not Isieke. Isseke sounds closest to Essaka given that 'i' sounding words were spelt with 'e' and that was the spelling convention in the 18th and 19th centuries, the same period Olaudah wrote his book. Just as Igbo was spelt as Eboe.

Isseke Village exists today in Ihiala LGA, Anambra state and is the closest possible origin of Olaudah based on linguistic and ethnographic evidence he left in his memoir.

Here's a link to help you out: http://www.ihiala.org/ click open and look on your left hand side under 'towns in Ihiala LGA'.

Radoillo already thrashed out the possibility whatsoever of Ashaka given riverine, snake culture, linguistic(ola/ona and olu/onu) pieces of evidence. If you feel fully convicted in your beliefs then you should back it up with evidence from Olaudah's work matching evidence in modern day Ashaka in Delta state, rather than simply basing your argument based on similarity in pronunciation/spelling of Essaka and Ashaka. After all, based on the same similarity, someone claimed earlier that Essaka was Etsako while choosing to play totally ignorant to the Igbo cultural evidence OlaudaH left behind in his memoir. You are free, however, to hold on to your belief only that your suggestion is not solid and does not hold water at all.
Re: Igbo In The 1700's by ezeagu(m): 5:43pm On Sep 14, 2014
ChinenyeN:
I'm actually disappointed that you had to make this post. I'd have like to think that they would have understood you meant Western Igbo geographical region, especially considering the context of the discussion at that particular time. Anyway..

It's quite tiring.

I believe Gustavus used the double 's' so it could be sounded as 'es-saka', if it were Isaka (in the current orthography), he would have used one 's' as in Esaka.

There's an 'Isaka' in Rivers, right below Port Harcourt which is right around the slave trading zone.
Re: Igbo In The 1700's by Ihuomadinihu: 5:50pm On Sep 14, 2014
bigfrancis21:

I said Isseke, and not Isieke. Isseke sounds closest to Essaka given that 'i' sounding words were spelt with 'e' and that was the spelling convention in the 18th and 19th centuries, the same period Olaudah wrote his book. Just as Igbo was spelt as Eboe.

Isseke Village exists today in Ihiala LGA, Anambra state and is the closest possible origin of Olaudah based on linguistic and ethnographic evidence he left in his memoir.

Here's a link to help you out: http://www.ihiala.org/ click open and look on your left hand side under 'towns in Ihiala LGA'.

Radoillo already thrashed out the possibility whatsoever of Ashaka given riverine, snake culture, linguistic(ola/ona and olu/onu) pieces of evidence. If you feel fully convicted in your beliefs then you should back it up with evidence from Olaudah's work matching evidence in modern day Ashaka in Delta state, rather than simply basing your argument based on similarity in pronunciation/spelling of Essaka and Ashaka. After all, based on the same similarity, someone claimed earlier that Essaka was Etsako while choosing to play totally ignorant to the Igbo cultural evidence OlaudaH left behind in his memoir. You are free, however, to hold on to your belief only that your suggestion is not solid and does not hold water at all.
Olaudah's narrative and origin is no longer debatable. Sometime ago,a certain researcher was able to trace the living relatives of Olaudah in Anambra state.
Some opinions should not be considered at all in the face of contrary and overwhelming linguistic and cultural evidence.
Re: Igbo In The 1700's by bigfrancis21: 6:10pm On Sep 14, 2014
ezeagu:

It's quite tiring.

I believe Gustavus used the double 's' so it could be sounded as 'es-saka', if it were Isaka (in the current orthography), he would have used one 's' as in Esaka.

There's an 'Isaka' in Rivers, right below Port Harcourt which is right around the slave trading zone.

@bold...pazienza should see this. If we are to play the game of name spelling similarity rather than analyze the cultural and geographical evidence Olaudah left in his book, then we should go on naming all 'isakas', 'ashaka's, 'etsakos' and whatnot that sound similar to Essaka and claim he was there and totally ignore the fact that he spoke Igbo or called himself Igbo.
Re: Igbo In The 1700's by ChinenyeN(m): 6:18pm On Sep 14, 2014
ezeagu: I believe Gustavus used the double 's' so it could be sounded as 'es-saka', if it were Isaka (in the current orthography), he would have used one 's' as in Esaka.

That's a possibility, and I can actually conceive of a way in which we can account for the 'es-saka' pronunciation. Contractions.

When we put two vowels side by side during compounding, the first vowel is swallowed. This has a retroactive effect on the pronunciation of the new compound word. It creates a sort of pseudo-pause in speech that can cause the preceding consonant to aesthetically sound longer than usual.

To account for this, it used to be that we would put an apostrophe immediately after the consonant.

Examples:
Akaekpe - ak'ekpe (this allows us to read the word as ak-kekpe and prevents us from reading it as a-kekpe)
Iheoma - ih'oma (this allows us to read the word as ih-homa and prevents us from reading it as i-homa)

Essentially, we recognize a difference between say, 'udara' and 'ud'ara'. Granted, the difference results from the vowel interactions. Yet, we can't honestly deny the retroactive effect on the preceding consonant.

In that way, I can see a possibility of Essaka being Vassa's attempt at transcribing a compounded Is'aka [as opposed to I-saka] or As'aka [as opposed to A-saka] (if we're still keeping the Western Igbo possibility in mind). Maybe it's a stretch, but I can still see it. Not saying that any of this actually holds. It's mostly a thought exercise for me.

There's also a small possibility that Vassa could have simply used the 'ay' sound of the letter 'a' in Essaka (thereby giving us Isseke or Is'eke), considering the complete absence of orthography. However, with the writing convention being what they were at the time, it still seems like the more unlikely scenario.
Re: Igbo In The 1700's by bigfrancis21: 6:19pm On Sep 14, 2014
Ihuomadinihu:
Olaudah's narrative and origin is no longer debatable. Sometime ago,a certain researcher was able to trace the living relatives of Olaudah in Anambra state.
Some opinions should not be considered at all in the face of contrary and overwhelming linguistic and cultural evidence.

Right. I have the article you are referring to. Late Mrs Catherine Acholonu of Orlu took it upon herself to conduct intensive research about the true origin of Olaudah.

In all of these arguments, one should be won't to ask first, is there any 'equiano'/'ekweano' family in Isseke community today to corroborate Olaudah's story? To this question, Catherine undertook research herself and discovered that there is indeed an Ekwealuo family among the Dimori kindred of Isseke community today. They went on to confirm that a boy from their family had been sold off during the slave trade era and they haven't heard from him ever since. Catherine also confirmed that most of the men in the Ekwealuo family of the Dimori kindred all bore ichi marks on their faces signifying the importance of the mgburuichi practice among their kindred and also corroborating Olaudah's narrative.

She also discovered that the 'ah ffoe way-ica' Olaudah wrote about was actually 'afo nwa ika', a term used to refer to short men or dwarfs from another community and the old men of Isseke confirmed that in the past they used to have year men from Nri who came around once every year to announce the end of the past year and beginning of another by a loud deafening sound. These men from Nri were short and were referred to as 'nwa ika' by children of the community meaning 'ugly monkey'. They also confirmed that they were a warlike community in the past, smoked tobacco pipes, and children of the community referred to the 'light-skinned' aros as 'oyibo', confirming Olaudah's mention of 'oye eboe' in his memoir. Again, notice the same spelling convention of 'i' sounding word spelt as 'e' in 'oyibo' and 'oyeeboe'.
Re: Igbo In The 1700's by bigfrancis21: 6:34pm On Sep 14, 2014
ezeagu:

It's quite tiring.

I believe Gustavus used the double 's' so it could be sounded as 'es-saka', if it were Isaka (in the current orthography), he would have used one 's' as in Esaka.

There's an 'Isaka' in Rivers, right below Port Harcourt which is right around the slave trading zone.

So far you can only speculate, however, Catherine Acholonu from her research has confirmed Olaudah's origins in Isseke.

The original article can be found here: http://equianosworld.tubmaninstitute.ca/sites/equianosworld.tubmaninstitute.ca/files/Acholonu_Home.pdf

Re: Igbo In The 1700's by bigfrancis21: 6:41pm On Sep 14, 2014
Continues:

Re: Igbo In The 1700's by bigfrancis21: 6:43pm On Sep 14, 2014
Continues here:

Re: Igbo In The 1700's by Nobody: 7:23pm On Sep 14, 2014
great. Olaudah Equiano now becomes Olude Ekwealuo

did/do we have Onude/Olude as names in Igboland...
and, could anyone tell me the meaning of the name Igwilo and whether any dialects have it as Igwino? please this is just me on a different personal exercise..
Re: Igbo In The 1700's by chibecanglobal(m): 11:02pm On Sep 14, 2014
pazienza: Ashaka sounds like Essaka. But Isieke is totally different fron Essaka. Bigfrancis, your description is detailed,but i would still stick with my Ukwuani origin of Olaudah.

Ezeagu. Thanks for providing further details on the Ukwuani angle.
But before you conclude first check out the spelling logic employed by the author whenever he writes the names things are called in his own language for instance ibo or igbo is wriitten Eboe the first vowel conveying the E sound;eada (current autographic igbo spelling is ede)i:e igbo for cocoyam,in the same vein Issaka should be written Isseke in today's autography with the a letter being employed to represent E sound in igbo language
Re: Igbo In The 1700's by chibecanglobal(m): 11:19pm On Sep 14, 2014
bigfrancis21:

I said Isseke, and not Isieke. Isseke sounds closest to Essaka given that 'i' sounding words were spelt with 'e' and that was the spelling convention in the 18th and 19th centuries, the same period Olaudah wrote his book. Just as Igbo was spelt as Eboe.

Isseke Village exists today in Ihiala LGA, Anambra state and is the closest possible origin of Olaudah based on linguistic and ethnographic evidence he left in his memoir.

Here's a link to help you out: http://www.ihiala.org/ click open and look on your left hand side under 'towns in Ihiala LGA'.

Radoillo already thrashed out the possibility whatsoever of Ashaka given riverine, snake culture, linguistic(ola/ona and olu/onu) pieces of evidence. If you feel fully convicted in your beliefs then you should back it up with evidence from Olaudah's work matching evidence in modern day Ashaka in Delta state, rather than simply basing your argument based on similarity in pronunciation/spelling of Essaka and Ashaka. After all, based on the same similarity, someone claimed earlier that Essaka was Etsako while choosing to play totally ignorant to the Igbo cultural evidence OlaudaH left behind in his memoir. You are free, however, to hold on to your belief only that your suggestion is not solid and does not hold water at all.
in page 16 he wrote"our vegetables are mostly plantains,eadas,yams,beans..." because i have figured out the spelling logic and the fact that i know igbo language i didn't find it difficult that the ""eadas"in the passage is ede (igbo word cocoyam). So it is absolutely correct to conclude in his orthography for native words he used the letter a coming behind a vowel to denote the e sound as in "take".So Essaka is certainly Issseke.

1 Like

Re: Igbo In The 1700's by ezeagu(m): 11:32pm On Sep 14, 2014
Acholonu says Ah-ffoe = Aho? Okay. I wouldn't deny possibly being related to a 18th century self-made celebrity author from London either.

I still maintain that Gustavus Vassa's origin remains unknown.

1 Like

Re: Igbo In The 1700's by bigfrancis21: 12:19am On Sep 15, 2014
chibecanglobal: in page 16 he wrote"our vegetables are mostly plantains,eadas,yams,beans..." because i have figured out the spelling logic and the fact that i know igbo language i didn't find it difficult that the ""eadas"in the passage is ede (igbo word cocoyam). So it is absolutely correct to conclude in his orthography for native words he used the letter a coming behind a vowel to denote the e sound as in "take".So Essaka is certainly Issseke.

That's right. Notice that for the pronunciation of 'e' as in 'egg', he used the 'ea' spelling instead and for 'e' sounding words coming last, he simply used 'a', as is pronounced in 'aim' thus confirming that 'essaka' is 'Isseke' and 'eadas' 'ede'.

By all evidence given above and the corroborating evidence in form of Mrs. Catherine's research, I think Olauda has justified himself enough and his authenticity.
Re: Igbo In The 1700's by bigfrancis21: 12:31am On Sep 15, 2014
ezeagu: Acholonu says Ah-ffoe = Aho? Okay. I wouldn't deny possibly being related to a 18th century self-made celebrity author from London either.

I still maintain that Gustavus Vassa's origin remains unknown.

I guess you did not get her right. Afo, aro and aho are variations of the same word for 'year'. She used 'aro' used in western igbo, onitsha and awka axis to cancel out the possibilities of Olaudah being from those areas since he would have used 'aro' instead for year in his memoir [pazienza take note of this fact. I'd like to know what 'year' is called in Ashaka Igbo]. She went on to say that 'afo' is used more commonly within Orsu-Orlu-Ihiala-Owerri areas to pin Olaudah's origin to this axis but particularly, 'aho' is used in Isseke. She then tried to explain the reason for this disparity in 'afo' of yore and 'aho' of contemporary times in the Isseke community. Given the dilution of Igbo language dialects recently and the shift in Igbo dialects across Igboland as can be seen in Nnewi dialects, Ika Igbo(Ikas are dropping more and more of ancient Edo words in their dialects and adopting the Igbo equivalents instead), etc Isseke may have adopted 'aho' recently in this process of dialectical shift. Note that Isseke community is within miles from Imo state and their dialect is simlar to Orlu/Northern Imo dialects than it is to Onitsha or Awka, and given that the community was once under Orlu senatorial district of Imo state, these factors may have accounted for why 'aho' was adopted in Isseke in contemporary times compared to the 18th century of Olauda's time. The same shift from general anambra forms to imo-like(southern igbo) forms in Isseke community, such as from 'afo' to 'aho' may also explain why contemporary Ekweanuo family is no longer Ekweanuo of Olauda's time but 'Ekwealuo', following more centralized Igbo adoptions.

2 Likes

Re: Igbo In The 1700's by ChinenyeN(m): 2:43am On Sep 15, 2014
ezeagu: Acholonu says Ah-ffoe = Aho? Okay. I wouldn't deny possibly being related to a 18th century self-made celebrity author from London either.

I still maintain that Gustavus Vassa's origin remains unknown.

Yep, that part struck me too as being particularly odd.
Re: Igbo In The 1700's by bigfrancis21: 4:35am On Sep 15, 2014
What's more sad to learn from Catherine's research is that poor little Olauda may not have been kidnapped ordinarily out of the blues but was rather sold off into slavery by his own father because his father thought of him to be effeminate and less manly like his elder brothers, and always followed his mother around even along with her into seclusion during her monthly cycle, which was considered a taboo. Olauda, who was 11 years old at that time, was soon to be initiated into the mgburichi group like his elder brothers in a few years time and the initiation event was costly. His father did not feel willing to waste money on a son who was more of a woman than a man, so his kidnap into slavery was orchestrated and Olaudah was sold. Such a betrayal coming from his own father.

What a sad twist to this powerful story.

1 Like

Re: Igbo In The 1700's by mandarin: 6:00pm On Sep 15, 2014
Thanks all for your beautiful arguments.

I said that the nativity of this man was between Northern Edo and Northern Delta and some of his cultural descriptions can be seen in 3-cultures in Southern Nigeria of todRadoillo and Bigfrancis2 thanks for your wealth of knowlege and matured argument and that means we can move further.

I had said earlier that the boy Olaudah came from a metropolitan Kingdom and at eleven years with highly traumatic experience, you wont be wrong to catch some errors. I however believe his personal account about himself would be largely accurate and those that little African children should know at that age. If you grew up in the village you will understand what I mean in an African world of myths and hiding lots from children.

He was from Essaka that would be right in every sense but may not even be certain about the name of the province and how the kingdom was being governed but I believe he was right about being under Benin empire or may be it was his reconstruction afterall he must trace his root for the whites to know he had a root.
To be factual, his description was a combination of Igboid, Edoid and Yoruboid culture, names and locations.more later
Re: Igbo In The 1700's by Nobody: 7:09pm On Sep 15, 2014
mandarin: Thanks all for your beautiful arguments.

To be factual, his description was a combination of Igboid, Edoid and Yoruboid culture, names and locations.more later

It will be good if we can actually point out these Yoruboid and Edoid elements in his description instead of making rather blanket statements. That claim has been made before on this forum without any light whatsoever being shed on the 'Edoidism/Yoruboidism' of his description.

I kind of agree with Ezeagu that the place of his birth cannot be identified with all certainty [it may very well be South Carolina as Caretta believes] , but if we are to go by what he wrote, north-central (Southeast) Igbo seems the most likely region he came from.

BigFrancis, the article from Acholonu that you posted is interesting. She pointed out the same cultural traits which make me suspect a North-Central Igbo origin. I'm very doubtful that the Ekwealuos she met were Olaudah's family though. It's difficult to believe that they've maintained the same family name for over two hundred years. Family names did not become fixed until the colonial era. It's stange how Acholonu could have missed that.

We may also want to take into consideration the fact that Olaudah, in 1788, a year before his autobiography came out, wrote in a letter that his 'estate' in Africa (which I take to mean his village/community) was called 'Elese'. At least one scholar (Dr Dorothy Ukaegbu) has suggested that 'Elese' is Olaudah's rendition of 'Ala-isse' which (according to the scholar) was an alternative fond name for Isseke. I don't know if Isseke has/had such an alternative name. I do know however that they sometimes use the phrase 'Ise-na-Isseke' to describe themselves,and they have a tradition that the 'ise' in that phrase derives from the Five major Eke deities in Isseke from which the town derives it's name. If Dr Ukaegbu is correct, this might be an additional supporting 'evidence' for the Isseke hypothesis.

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Re: Igbo In The 1700's by bigfrancis21: 8:38pm On Sep 15, 2014
Radoillo:

It will be good if we can actually point out these Yoruboid and Edoid elements in his description instead of making rather blanket statements. That claim has been made before on this forum without any light whatsoever being shed on the 'Edoidism/Yoruboidism' of his description.

I kind of agree with Ezeagu that the place of his birth cannot be identified with all certainty [it may very well be South Carolina as Caretta believes] , but if we are to go by what he wrote, north-central (Southeast) Igbo seems the most likely region he came from.

BigFrancis, the article from Acholonu that you posted is interesting. She pointed out the same cultural traits which make me suspect a North-Central Igbo origin. I'm very doubtful that the Ekwealuos she met were Olaudah's family though. It's difficult to believe that they've maintained the same family name for over two hundred years. Family names did not become fixed until the colonial era. It's stange how Acholonu could have missed that.

We may also want to take into consideration the fact that Olaudah, in 1788, a year before his autobiography came out, wrote in a letter that his 'estate' in Africa (which I take to mean his village/community) was called 'Elese'. At least one scholar (Dr Dorothy Ukaegbu) has suggested that 'Elese' is Olaudah's rendition of 'Ala-isse' which (according to the scholar) was an alternative fond name for Isseke. I don't know if Isseke has/had such an alternative name. I do know however that they sometimes use the phrase 'Ise-na-Isseke' to describe themselves,and they have a tradition that the 'ise' in that phrase derives from the Five major Eke deities in Isseke from which the town derives it's name. If Dr Ukaegbu is correct, this might be an additional supporting 'evidence' for the Isseke hypothesis.

I think some people would rather remain illusioned and feed their illusion than choose to be analytical and objective to the actual facts. Olaudah was an intelligent and great young man who, irrespective of the prevailing situations and odds against him at that time, wrote a memoir laced with laudable literary echoes of that time. Now some people deem it fit to claim him as their own despite contradictory evidence.

Well, anybody who wants to claim him should do something more than mere superficial renditions of void statements, and offering no supporting proofs and facts to their statements which come off more as personal illusions than they are facts. Do your research; go to your villages; consult with the elders on your village traditions of yore, if you are not familiar with them already, and confirm if they match, at least, 90% with Olaudah's statements; search for an 'Ekweanuo'/'Ekwealuo' family or 'Olaudah' name amongst the families of the village to see if you'll find one, etc. And not forgetting the language list words of afo(year), oyibo(light skinned person), eddae(coconut), nwaika, mgbirichi etc.

As for family last names, certain last names do survive from generations to generations though, and some were changed as recently as 1950, 1960 etc. especially those who felt their last names were unchristian or felt it was affecting the destinies of the family members. Many families who had no problems with their last names held on to them. My current family last name was changed during the time of my great-grandfather(late 1800s).
Re: Igbo In The 1700's by Nobody: 9:30pm On Sep 15, 2014
Errr...I don't think you understood me. I'm not talking about people changing their names because they felt it was unchristian or affecting their destinities. I'm talking about the absence of a fixed last-name system before 1900, or earlier (depending on when your family became Westernized; it occrred earlier for some areas and families).

Let me try and give an example.

If a certain Okafor Onyia born in 1759 had a son with his wife named Mgbafor, and named the boy Onyeka, the boy's full name would most likely be Onyeka Okafor (after his father) or Onyeka Mgbafor (after his mother). It could even be Onyeka Somebody-Else, depending on who raised him or Onyeka His-Profession. There was simply no rigid system.

When Onyeka Mgbafor (let's take that as the last name he came to be known by) has his own son, Edozie, with his wife Ugoye, the same thing would apply: Edozie Onyeka, or Edozie Ugoye, or Edozie Somebody-Else, or Edozie His-Profession, or Edozie Whatever-He-was-Best-Known-For. And so forth. After two hundred years, Onyia won't be held as a family name in that family, unless the bearer's parent or guardian was by some luck also called Onyia.

In some areas of the Cross River Zone, the naming pattern was a bit different. A man had three names: the first was his personal name, the second his father's name, the third his granfather's name. Thus, for a man called Onwuka Kalu Onwuka, his father's name would be Kalu, and his grandfather's name Onwuka. The middle and last names would also change every generation as the next generation adopts the names of its direct ancestors as middle and last names.

This is why I'm doubtful that the Ekwealuos in Isseke derive their last name from a man who lived earlier than the late 19th century. It's almost impossible that the name goes back over 200 years to the 18th century.

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Re: Igbo In The 1700's by Nobody: 9:31pm On Sep 15, 2014
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Re: Igbo In The 1700's by bigfrancis21: 9:48pm On Sep 15, 2014
I get your point. But can you say with full certainty that it applied to every single Igbo family in the past? Don't you think you might be a bit over-generalizing?
Re: Igbo In The 1700's by ChinenyeN(m): 10:26pm On Sep 15, 2014
For the purpose of the discussion, I believe it is indeed safe to move forward with the assumption of a non-fixed last name system. To the best of all of OUR collective knowledge, there is yet to be an identifiable example of a fixed last-name system among pre-colonial Igbo. It would be a stretch to attempt to ignore actual knowledge for an assumption which has never been empirically observed.

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