Part 1: FG versus NMA
Part 2: FG versus JOHESU

Sac them all abeg!

Make no mistake abt it NMA is not JOHESU! They called doctors names just because doctors were fighting for d betterment of d enter health system and demanded an increase in Hazard allowee...

I thought johesu have d patients/masses at heart? Now who is going to be called heartless?

All demands here are for johesu and its members... which one concerns the patient? Compare with NMA demands.

Anyway, we don't really need them in d hospital, let them not just lock up govt equipment and tools as they use to...they can go with their empty heads.

But if they lock up things and go, doctors will also not work o because d masses no like us and we won't kill ourselves for anybody henceforth.

SHALOM !!!

I've said it before: if FG could assfuck doctors the way they did, I'm pretty sure JOHESU shd be a piece of cake. Or a piece of a55.

The basic problem is that there is no money for new salary increases, because there is no extra money for health care.

In 2012, GEJ and his Financial Crew wanted to remove fuel subsidy....because they knew that they needed extra cash for a lot of things. Nigerians said no...so fuel subsidy partially stayed.

The issue is, the Govt runs far too many hospitals. And most of the budget for these hospitals goes on maintenance costs/overheads. Leaving just enough to pay salaries.....and that's it.

Of course there is a solution....and it starts with fees in government hospital being raised, and funding for health being increased drastically. In the future....we need to get a universal national health insurance scheme.But the reality again is that we do not have enough oil money to fund all that....which is why Nigeria must industrialize, and aggressively attract foreign investors....so that we can have the heavy tax revenues needed to fund the health care sectors adequately.

Modified at 11.40am

1.I think that , as I have said previously , NMA and JOHESU should get together and work for the percentage health takes out of the budget to be at 20%.

2.I also think that the fuel subsidy has to go....and the money saved be spent on mass public transport, education and health care (as well as power). Tough choice...especially as we do not have enough cash from oil.

3.I think that all teaching hospitals should be public-private initiatives. That way, the govt will be free to fund primary and secondary health care better.

4.Somehow we have to increase the number of health care staff in this country, and improve their salaries so that we end the exodus abroad (And this am, David Cameron is talking about increasing the number of GP's in the UK. Guess where many of them will come from....especially as they are not training enough home grown doctors).

5.Again, I must stress that we diversify our economy into industries....so that we can get enough tax revenues to fund health care....ESPECIALLY Universal Health Insurance....which is what this country needs....and which cannot be funded well on our current limited oil budget.

Exodus2k: I blame the FG for allowing all sectors to form unionism and association of interest using it to hold the Nation at ransom tomorrow NMA will start theirs and we keep moving backward.

You don't want unions? Are you not a worker?

Unions fight for your rights as a worker. Take them away....and there would be unlimited exploitation.

15 days will soon pass

silentdon: Sac them all abeg!

And replace them with whom? Foreigners?

The real issue is the underfunded health care sector.....not JOHESU.

We need to tackle this first. It's worst than insecurity

Too many demands they shld reduce it to four or five max

hahehohaheho...I laugh in Japanese...
NMA vs JOHESU part 2...this country is in some serious mess. its the masses I pity the most...

Is my phone telling me something else, abi almost all their demands is centered on "allowance"?? This funny group, na greed go kill them. Greedy mofos, that don't care a rat-shiit, about the patients!!!!

And of course there's the issue of JOHESU being a conglomerate of unions who have a history of being at loggerheads with one another (BSc Nurses vs diploma, Lab Sci vs Lab Tech, BPharm vs Pharm Tech etc) united by something as flimsy as "hatred for doctors"
Government successfully used "divide and rule" tactics on NMA (NARD vs MDCAN). So again I say: Piece of cake, Piece of a55


Elobyobi be like "brace youself; the quotes are coming"

....And the likes too

[b]The solution to all this conflict is to sensitize nigerians to know the following
1) That nursing is a two year non degree program that contains just element of patient management and almost nothing at all on general studies or other facets of education that other nigerian graduates pass through during their education to gain a full and rounded education and be called university graduates so nursing is effectively a technical training program that evolved into a gorgon medusa in nigeria except for those with BN in nursing.so they are not excpected to act like educated people since most of them are not, hence their thuggish attitude in hospital

2) Pharmacists are a group of well educated people that are trained to work mostly in drug factories(80% work there in other countries) producing it for consumption of the populace with few working in hospital setting and not trying to exceed their limits but in nigeria,a pharmacist that did not see a patient or learn patient management in school want to now become a full fledge doctor and run hospitals.

3) Medical lab science was not even a degree course in this country before now but just a technical certficate gotten in one location in jos after two years of studies but now some are degree holders and now want to wear the same boot as doctors.

4) The pharmacist only job in the hospital is to dispense drugs which anybody even a boko haram member can do effectively with just 3 hours of training hence there unfounded need for undue recognition is even more alarming( ok una go school well well but nobody need una for hospital sorriooo.i de pity una shaaa)

5)That most people in this profession of pharmacy wanted to be doctors but after failing there jamb successively, the opted for pharmacy and developed undue inferiority complex that translated to hate for doctors that is playing out in our health sector

6)That every doctor knows how to do the jobs that this people does but just would not stoop so low as to do so since their have a massive physical and intellectual job they do all the time (it is like the house boy and the oga of the house, if the houseboy is not around,the oga will suffer to iron his cloths and wash his car himself so he will actually work harder but that doesn't make the houseboy the boss at all.

7)[size=18pt]Finally, do any nigerian want to handover their life or that of their children to a hospital being run by nurses or pharmacist?[/size] [/b]

Good, let them ground the public health sector. When we meet in private practice, we'll know who is who.

Chinaimporter: The solution to all this conflict is to sensitize nigerians to know the following
1) That nursing is a two year non degree program that contains just element of patient management and almost nothing at all on general studies or other facets of education that other nigerian graduates pass through during their education to gain a full and rounded education and be called university graduates so nursing is effectively a technical training program that evolved into a gorgon medusa in nigeria except for those with BN in nursing.so they are not excpected to act like educated people since most of them are not, hence their thuggish attitude in hospital

Well, I daresay the idea behind nurse-consultants is to possibly improve training for nurses too....so that they become more than techies.

2) Pharmacists are a group of well educated people that are trained to work mostly in drug factories(80% work there in other countries) producing it for consumption of the populace with few working in hospital setting and not trying to exceed their limits but in nigeria,a pharmacist that did not see a patient or learn patient management in school want to now become a full fledge doctor and run hospitals.

Pharmacists are very important in patient treatment....and yes, we doctors do rely on them for advice.(I am grateful to a hospital pharmacist who pointed out an error in one of my prescriptions once)

3) Medical lab science was not even a degree course in this country before now but just a technical certficate gotten in one location in jos after two years of studies but now some are degree holders and now want to wear the same boot as doctors.

Well, some of them do undergo training too...serious training(After all, you do need a lot of knowledge of basic medical science to run a lab!And some lab techies are university graduates....the guy who headed the hospital lab where I did my housejob was a graduate.)

4) The pharmacist only job in the hospital is to dispense drugs which anybody even a boko haram member can do effectively with just 3 hours of training hence there unfounded need for undue recognition is even more alarming( ok una go school well well but nobody need una for hospital sorriooo.i de pity una shaaa)

See my previous comment.....and they do help us docs prescribe right too(The good ones at least).

5)That most people in this profession of pharmacy wanted to be doctors but after failing there jamb successively, the opted for pharmacy and developed undue inferiority complex that translated to hate for doctors that is playing out in our health sector

Now that's not true...I have friends who are pharmacist....including one who recently got a PhD in the subject...and she never wanted to be a doctor...na pharmacist from day one.(And I too wanted to be a pharmacist....but thanks to advice from a medical doc friend of my parents...).

6)[size=18pt]Finally, do any nigerian want to handover their life or that of their children to a hospital being run by nurses or pharmasist?[/size]

In America, hospitals are not run by medical doctors....they are run by hospital administrators...and hospital admin is a course on its own (Chris Ngige , the politician, is a trained medical doctor with a diploma in hospital administration). As a doc, I don't mind a nurse running a hospital...so long as s/he does not interfere with my clinical decisions(Plus, any good administrator would give leeway to his or her expert employees).

Still, the issue really is funding....and the fact that in this country we have a funny idea about titles and salaries. Both need revamping.

(I am a medical doctor....and a NMA member).

Why do I always feel this JOHESU is a christian association? It sounds to me like JESU(jesus). As for the matter, it really has weight and occupies space. The fg should do the needful to prevent this.

evanscheck: Wow!!! Seriously I am speechless, d health sector have got to be deregulated...

Okay. Now you accept that government has no business in business. Yes. The unions have turned social services and strike action into a thriving business.

The weakness of d govt makes it so vulnerable to all these demands from uncountable unions. So d discontent now is for their members to b accorded every right and priviledge of a medical doctor because they all work within the same institutional framework?now u bring cleaners,pharmacists,attendants,nurses,morticians,lab scientist etc and u demand a platform of equality for all?even amongst d johesu members there exists so much divide that u easily will understand a few are using the advantage of their numbers to advance their selfish positions.if u want to get d respect,emolument,position,career progression of a doctor why not just save us all these and go and buy jamb form and b a medical doctor

hybridtm:
Dis people are not medical doctors, just some clown looking for attention

Like Seriously, the Pharmacist, Lab-scientists, Nurses and Administrators are clown to you right. Its going to be a total shutdown to the health system, instead of proffering solution you are busy calling names.

Johnathan shouldntreat them like medical doctors. Sack them.

[quote author=kachy]Let us gear up for another FG vs health care providers fight.. Just sit down dey watch....


The secretary to the government of the federation,
Three arms zone, central area, abuja
Sir,
FIFTEEN (15) DAYS ULTIMATUM.
You could recall that JOHESU embarked on three days warning
strike from 20th to 22nd january 22014 to press home various
demands which have been lingering since 2009
In view of the inability of the honourable minister of health,
professor onyebuchi chukwu to meet our demands, the federal
government intervened through the office of the secretary to the
government of the federation. However, from january to september
2014, very little have been achieved as most agreements earlier
reached between federal government and JOHESU are not
implemented.medicalworldnigeria.com
We therefore, demand for immediate resolution of all matters
pending between JOHESU and federal government within the next
fifteen days i.e not later than 8th october 2014 or face an indefinite
strike action.
The contending issues among others are as follows:
1) Non promotion of our members from salary CONHESS 14 - 15 as
directors having stayed for 4 to 15 years on the same salary level
without promotion in most fedral tertiary hospitals.
2) Immediate release of circular on adjustment of salary as done for
NMA members since january 2014 and immediate payment of at
least two months arrears while the remaining are paid with 2015
budget.
3) Immediate release of the circular on extension of retirement age
to be back dated to february 2014 when the issue was presented to
National council on establishment.
4) Immediate and full payment of arrears of salaries of CONHESS
10 skipping outstanding since the year 2010.
5) Immediate amendment of the ciruclar on consultancy status as
pronounced by National court on 22nd july, 2013, and agreed to at
a meeting of 12th august 2014 with the federal
government.medicalworldnigeria.com
6) Payment of arrears of specialist allowance to qualified hospital
based professioanls with effect from 1st january 2010 in line with
national industrial court of nigeria ruling.
7) Immediate release of the harmonized scheme of service and
circular on internship for nurses and midwives.
Modification of medical laboratory scientist intern's circular to
include post NYSC placement and beyond.
9)Minimizing the lopsidedness in the membership of boards of
management of tertiary hospitals.
10) Implementation of the court judgement in favour of medical
laboratory scientist on separate department in the hospitals.
11) Need to define the functions and power of honourary consultants
in teaching hospitals and the need to appoint more hospital based
consultatnts instead of honourary
consultants.medicalworldnigeria.com
12) Need for residency program for other health professionals.
13) Issuance of guidelines on appointment of chariman, medical
advisory committee and the committee's composition.
14) Need for complete autonomy for the teaching hospitals by
removing university lecturers as head in some clinical departments.
15) Need to urgently set up a collective bargaining agreement
committee to look at the following allowances for JOHESU members
a. Headship allowance
b. Administrative allowance
c. professional allowance.
d. Excess work load allowance
e. Health and safety site allowance
f. responsibility allowance
g. reduction of the present excess taxation on health workers
salaries
h. restoration of working days as annual leave
medicalworldnigeria.com
It is our hope that governement would quickly accede to these
demands bearing in mind that JOHESU members have exercised
sufficient patience and maturity (for more than one year) over thier
demands.
Please accept our highest regards and assurances of our best
wishes
YUSUF BADMUS W.G
Secretray JOHESU


Revealed - 'Johesu al Islamatul el Magani' is the medical arm of Boko haram and Isis operating in Nigeria. We will fight them with prayers, holy water, tanks and fighter planes wherever they may be. Enough is enough. Good morning Nigeria.

@bushdoc9919

Well, I daresay the idea behind nurse-consultants is to possibly improve training for nurses too....so that they become more than techies.

[size=14pt]so if you call them consultants,that makes them better trained or same old nurses with a bigger name.....nobody is against a specialist nurse but nurse consultants is a misnomer[/size]



Pharmacists are very important in patient treatment....and yes, we doctors do rely on them for advice.(I am grateful to a hospital pharmacist who pointed out an error in one of my prescriptions once)

[size=14pt]Who said they are not important at all, i also relied on a hospital cleaner to tell me that i was not well covered ( torn gloves)while handling an ebola patient....does that make such a person want to head a hospital
[/size]

Well, some of them do undergo training too...serious training(After all, you do need a lot of knowledge of basic medical science to run a lab!And some lab techies are university graduates....the guy who headed the hospital lab where I did my housejob was a graduate.)

[size=14pt]I said some are now graduates and off course bar tenders undergo serious training
[/size]

See my previous comment.....and they do help us docs prescribe right too(The good ones at least).

[size=14pt]Infact most are good at their jobs but what do they do.....everybody is good at handing out something
[/size]
Now that's not true...I have friends who are pharmacist....including one who recently got a PhD in the subject...and she never wanted to be a doctor...na pharmacist from day one.(And I too wanted to be a pharmacist....but thanks to advice from a medical doc friend of my parents...).

[size=14pt]I said most of them not all and most nigerian know this
[/size]
In America, hospitals are not run by medical doctors....they are run by hospital administrators...and hospital admin is a course on its own (Chris Ngige , the politician, is a trained medical doctor with a diploma in hospital administration). As a doc, I don't mind a nurse running a hospital...so long as s/he does not interfere with my clinical decisions(Plus, any good administrator would give leeway to his or her expert employees).

[size=14pt]The question is would they not interfare and if they do and they are heading it, what will you do? Cmon nigeria is not america....hsopital admistration is an MBA course geared towards profit making not effective management of a government hospital
[/size]
Still, the issue really is funding....and the fact that in this country we have a funny idea about titles and salaries. Both need revamping.

[size=14pt]Funding is always an issue everywhere....even in usa[/size]
(I am a medical doctor....and a NMA member).

[size=14pt]I am a physiotherapist, a molecular biologist .....and a full johesu member and i dont think you are a doctor because your logic stinks unless you are a bush quack as your username implies[/size][/quote]

Amazondepth: The weakness of d govt makes it so vulnerable to all these demands from uncountable unions. So d discontent now is for their members to b accorded every right and priviledge of a medical doctor because they all work within the same institutional framework?now u bring cleaners,pharmacists,attendants,nurses,morticians,lab scientist etc and u demand a platform of equality for all?even amongst d johesu members there exists so much divide that u easily will understand a few are using the advantage of their numbers to advance their selfish positions.if u want to get d respect,emolument,position,career progression of a doctor why not just save us all these and go and buy jamb form and b a medical doctor

I see. So it is the government that is now weak. If they refuse to play along and the strike continues you begin to sing another tune as to their insensitivity. Can you stand for one thing and face the problem squarely starting with who is the custodian of the medical profession in Nigeria, the government or the unions.

Now Nigerians will know d selfish and heartless grp btw JOHESU and NMA. Almost all their demands is centered on one allowance or the other. Nothing to show for patients who r d major reason why they work in d hospital. I think "health bill" should be passed as soon as possible and everything should be resolved at once. Serial strike actions won't do us any good because people r really suffering.

Chinaimporter: [b]The solution to all this conflict is to sensitize nigerians to know the following
1) That nursing is a two year non degree program that contains just element of patient management and almost nothing at all on general studies or other facets of education that other nigerian graduates pass through during their education to gain a full and rounded education and be called university graduates so nursing is effectively a technical training program that evolved into a gorgon medusa in nigeria except for those with BN in nursing.so they are not excpected to act like educated people since most of them are not, hence their thuggish attitude in hospital

2) Pharmacists are a group of well educated people that are trained to work mostly in drug factories(80% work there in other countries) producing it for consumption of the populace with few working in hospital setting and not trying to exceed their limits but in nigeria,a pharmacist that did not see a patient or learn patient management in school want to now become a full fledge doctor and run hospitals.

3) Medical lab science was not even a degree course in this country before now but just a technical certficate gotten in one location in jos after two years of studies but now some are degree holders and now want to wear the same boot as doctors.

4) The pharmacist only job in the hospital is to dispense drugs which anybody even a boko haram member can do effectively with just 3 hours of training hence there unfounded need for undue recognition is even more alarming( ok una go school well well but nobody need una for hospital sorriooo.i de pity una shaaa)

5)That most people in this profession of pharmacy wanted to be doctors but after failing there jamb successively, the opted for pharmacy and developed undue inferiority complex that translated to hate for doctors that is playing out in our health sector

6)That every doctor knows how to do the jobs that this people does but just would not stoop so low as to do so since their have a massive physical and intellectual job they do all the time (it is like the house boy and the oga of the house, if the houseboy is not around,the oga will suffer to iron his cloths and wash his car himself so he will actually work harder but that doesn't make the houseboy the boss at all.

7)[size=18pt]Finally, do any nigerian want to handover their life or that of their children to a hospital being run by nurses or pharmacist?[/size] [/b]

inasmuch as I understand your grievances , I think we should all learn to make our points noted without belittling other professions. Nobody will take the points of anyone who does that seriously as it appears to be made out of anger not facts.Most of what you stated are not totally accurate. B.Sc nursing as a 4/5 year course is done in some Nigerian universities including UI.Theres a whole lot more to pharmacy than just drug dispensation whether u choose to admit it or not.

prindu: Make no mistake abt it NMA is not JOHESU! They called doctors names just because doctors were fighting for d betterment of d enter health system and demanded an increase in Hazard allowee...

I thought johesu have d patients/masses at heart? Now who is going to be called heartless?

All demands here are for johesu and its members... which one concerns the patient? Compare with NMA demands.

Anyway, we don't really need them in d hospital, let them not just lock up govt equipment and tools as they use to...they can go with their empty heads.

But if they lock up things and go, doctors will also not work o because d masses no like us and we won't kill ourselves for anybody henceforth.

SHALOM !!!

I'm just sorry for you lot. You guys can't get any lower yet you strive to get to the earth's core. Happy digging.

Amazondepth: The weakness of d govt makes it so vulnerable to all these demands from uncountable unions. So d discontent now is for their members to b accorded every right and priviledge of a medical doctor because they all work within the same institutional framework?now u bring cleaners,pharmacists,attendants,nurses,morticians,lab scientist etc and u demand a platform of equality for all?even amongst d johesu members there exists so much divide that u easily will understand a few are using the advantage of their numbers to advance their selfish positions.if u want to get d respect,emolument,position,career progression of a doctor why not just save us all these and go and buy jamb form and b a medical doctor

Is this all you were taught in the Medical school, imagine you comparing a cleaner with a Pharmacist, JOHESU has never claim to want to be equal with the doctors, if I may remind you JOHESU demands were tabled before the Doctors even start their own demands. Please let's respect every person, every profession, healthcare should be a collaborative effort to deliver the best to the patient. If everybody should be doctors then who will make our Cars, the plane you flew in, the house we lived in, the roads we walk on, the food we eat, you see my dear every person deserves to be respected.

bushdoc9919: The basic problem is that there is no money for new salary increases, because there is no extra money for health care.

In 2012, GEJ and his Financial Crew wanted to remove fuel subsidy....because they knew that they needed extra cash for a lot of things. Nigerians said no...so fuel subsidy partially stayed.

The issue is, the Govt runs far too many hospitals. And most of the budget for these hospitals goes on maintenance costs/overheads. Leaving just enough to pay salaries.....and that's it.

Of course there is a solution....and it starts with fees in government hospital being raised, and funding for health being increased drastically. In the future....we need to get a universal national health insurance scheme.But the reality again is that we do not have enough oil money to fund all that....which is why Nigeria must industrialize, and aggressively attract foreign investors....so that we can have the heavy tax revenues needed to fund the health care sectors adequately.

Well said. At least someone is offering a lifeline to those crabs in a barrel.

otswag: inasmuch as I understand your grievances as I'm a medical doctor too, I think we should all learn to make our points noted without belittling other professions. Nobody will take the points of anyone who does that seriously as it appears to be made out of anger not facts.Most of what you stated are not totally accurate. B.Sc nursing as a 4/5 year course is done in some Nigerian universities including UI.Theres a whole lot more to pharmacy than just drug dispensation whether u choose to admit it or not.

If you read my post well, is except those with BN that is b.sc in nursing and please tell me what else pharmacist do in the hospital setting apart from dispensing drugs and telling patients how to take them? Please educate me

Interesting war brewing! Let's wait and see