mankand:


Forget it, how can someone who never existed see us in the first place. It's all myth, it's an allegory

Can you prove he never existed?

MizMyColi:


No Dear, I'm not.
Just a confused wanderer.

Confused? What about? You have too many agnostic comments,yet you say you are a confused wanderer?
About the thread, what do you mean by 'saving us'? what are you referring to in this context? Thanks.

MizMyColi:


No Dear, I'm not.
Just a confused wanderer.

I see.
Well, I can help u with your confused wandering.

AgapeCharis:
which stories?

stories of the talking snake

AgapeCharis:
I see.
Well, I can help u with your confused wandering.

and how exactly do you intend to help her?

Scyllapatron:


and how exactly do you intend to help her?

Nt jx her. If u are as well or anyone else on this platform. Wateva d confusion is abt God/Christianity, I believe when light is shed on the subject, the confusion will stop

Scyllapatron:

stories of the talking snake

Look behind u. D snake wants to bite you

MizMyColi:

[size=14pt]Why isn’t Jesus saving us? [/size]


If Jesus is the savior, where is he? Why is he not saving us or our world? Where is he

Something is seriously wrong somewhere.

Our mission shouldn’t be to escape the threat of hell in the after life when we are already in it! Consider the possibility that we’ve missed something.

Maybe start questioning what you’ve always been told, especially if it doesn’t line up with the reality of the situation.

Jesus is never going to save us or our world in the way we have been told.

Acknowledging this is the first step.

What Jesus taught, demonstrated, and lived has the power to save this world, but NOT in the way we have been told through religion.



As usual

Let's Discuss

Am pained because am mobile n got lot to do. If I may ask, what is your assertion based on? What have you been told about jesus saving? What does the world need saving from?

I really don't know how I will answer without using the bible which you don't believe in(i may be wrong) and without bringing up more bottled-up issues to really support why you keep spewing up more related topics.

Let me state unequivocally here: if for the gains of this world you believe in jesus, you(anybody) are the most pitiable person.

Read John 16:33
Read John 17 1-26

Christianity or whatever you so believe does not make you immune to tribulations or life changing events. No,it doesn't! Am a logical person and I treat issues practically before digressing to the spirituality. Of truth, the world is in ruins since time immemorial (days of Noah) and even now. With increase in knowledge, man/woman see him/er with God. Read Daniel 11:32 downward.

MizmyCoil, I presumed to know where you are getting at,but you need to spend more time reading your bible with open mind. There are some things we may never get answers to but to make us more confused. Not that,we don't have the right to ask.

Let me ask you: who is responsible primarily for deaths as a result of war, health issues/failures, suicides or the mere thought of evil in our minds. Why do we have variations in our make up or thought faculty?
Is God responsible for all these truly?

smartigo:

Am pained because am mobile n got lot to do. If I may ask, what is your assertion based on? What have you been told about jesus saving? What does the world need saving from?

I really don't know how I will answer without using the bible which you don't believe in(i may be wrong) and without bringing up more bottled-up issues to really support why you keep spewing up more related topics.

Let me state unequivocally here: if for the gains of this world you believe in jesus, you(anybody) are the most pitiable person.

Read John 16:33
Read John 17 1-26

Christianity or whatever you so believe does not make you immune to tribulations or life changing events. No,it doesn't! Am a logical person and I treat issues practically before digressing to the spirituality. Of truth, the world is in ruins since time immemorial (days of Noah) and even now. With increase in knowledge, man/woman see him/er with God. Read Daniel 11:32 downward.

MizmyCoil, I presumed to know where you are getting at,but you need to spend more time reading your bible with open mind. There are some things we may never get answers to but to make us more confused. Not that,we don't have the right to ask.

Let me ask you: who is responsible primarily for deaths as a result of war, health issues/failures, suicides or the mere thought of evil in our minds. Why do we have variations in our make up or thought faculty?
Is God responsible for all these truly?

Nice point u'v got here.

MizMyColi:

[size=14pt]Why isn’t Jesus saving us? [/size]


If Jesus is the savior, where is he? Why is he not saving us or our world? Where is he

Something is seriously wrong somewhere.

Our mission shouldn’t be to escape the threat of hell in the after life when we are already in it! Consider the possibility that we’ve missed something.

Maybe start questioning what you’ve always been told, especially if it doesn’t line up with the reality of the situation.

Jesus is never going to save us or our world in the way we have been told.

Acknowledging this is the first step.

What Jesus taught, demonstrated, and lived has the power to save this world, but NOT in the way we have been told through religion.



As usual

Let's Discuss

Will reply this later in d day

What if Jesus was trying to prove that his way of life was the best way to live. He probably saw living as a series of actions, and sin as an action not the abstract construct or reitifed entity Christians have made out of it. Because I have listened to what Christian theologians and pastors say about Jesus' death and it does not make an iota of sense. Most of them talk about Jesus finding a key to death or defeating Satan in a battle in the underworld. Easter itself has turned to a joke and a bizarre celebration of death.

Christians should try as much as possible to use non Christians as yardsticks for their spiritual progress because everyday, there is no difference between the 'saved' and the 'unsaved'.

ihedinobi2:
I can only answer you as a Christian. And our answer is that He has. If "to save" means[b] "to secure from danger of one sort or another"[/b] then we have been saved already.

Given that, I am curious what it is you were told through religion that is NOT the way this world will be saved.

hello Ihedinobi, it's been a while ...

please what exactly is the danger(s) that you have been secured from?

MizMyColi:


Tell me Dear, what exactly have you been told.

Pardon my asking, there're different versions actually.

dre11:



I would like to know the different version



.

May I present two different 'versions' that are often conflated?

1) Jesus came to save us from our Sinful Nature

2) Jesus came to save us from the consequences of our Sinful acts

The idea is that we are not Sinners because we have Sinned, but rather we Sin because we are sinners.

If it is our Sinful nature that we to be saved from and we become a new kind of creature then Jesus' salvation project has failed in the case of the greater majority of Christians. They all still have their extremely sinful nature and the subsequent sinful acts abound.

If it is the consequences of our Sins that he has come to save us from, and those consequences culminate in our final destination in the afterlife, then we cannot judge until such a time whether he has failed or not. If there are consequences of sin before the final day of reckoning and we have been saved from those then Christians should be living better lives than non christians and a christian thief that gets caught will not suffer any consequences, neither will the christian womanizer that catches venereal disease will be cured of his disease.
If the particular consequence that we are saved from is not physical but spiritual christians will continue to suffer the physical consequences of their sins but whether the 'other' intangible consequences are escaped we can not know because we do not experience them .

There are other consequences of these beliefs. If one believes that his sins are forgiven despite his continuing to sin this will only encourage most people to sin further. This teaching encourages moral corruption. This, i believe, is why Nigerians are so morally corrupt, what was already a bad situation was made exponentially worse by these false 'christian' teachings. Note: Jesus did not teach any of these himself.

Kay17:
What if Jesus was trying to prove that his way of life was the best way to live. He probably saw living as a series of actions, and sin as an action not the abstract construct or reitifed entity Christians have made out of it. Because I have listened to what Christian theologians and pastors say about Jesus' death and it does not make an iota of sense. Most of them talk about Jesus finding a key to death or defeating Satan in a battle in the underworld. Easter itself has turned to a joke and a bizarre celebration of death.

Christians should try as much as possible to use non Christians as yardsticks for their spiritual progress because everyday, there is no difference between the 'saved' and the 'unsaved'.

Pls, why will a christian do that for a SPIRITUAL PROGRESS? Or could you shed light on spiritual progress to get you better?

The fact someone chooses not to follow the tenets of Christianity, does it make the tenet void n null itself? That is why Joshua said, choose this day whom to follow. The greatest gift giving to mankind is the power to choose n subsequently live by its result. Read Gen 8:22; 2peter 2:21.

So,the fact a believer chooses to live like the non-believers doesn't make it a yardstick for Christians to follow.

smartigo:

Pls, why will a christian do that for a SPIRITUAL PROGRESS? Or could you shed light on spiritual progress to get you better?

The fact someone chooses not to follow the tenets of Christianity, does it make the tenet void n null itself? That is why Joshua said, choose this day whom to follow. The greatest gift giving to mankind is the power to choose n subsequently live by its result. Read Gen 8:22; 2peter 2:21.

So,the fact a believer chooses to live like the non-believers doesn't make it a yardstick for Christians to follow.

No I was not saying a Christian should live like a nonChristian, rather his spiritual progress should be measured by that of nonchristians. for example in a car race, the success of the 1st is dependent on the failure of the other racers.

Jesus is dead, that's why he's not saving you.

I'd cry to the Flying Spaghetti Monster if I were you, He is alive and still saving those who believe in him.

MizMyColi:

[size=14pt]Why isn’t Jesus saving us? [/size]


If Jesus is the savior, where is he? Why is he not saving us or our world? Where is he

Something is seriously wrong somewhere.

Our mission shouldn’t be to escape the threat of hell in the after life when we are already in it! Consider the possibility that we’ve missed something.

Maybe start questioning what you’ve always been told, especially if it doesn’t line up with the reality of the situation.

Jesus is never going to save us or our world in the way we have been told.

Acknowledging this is the first step.

What Jesus taught, demonstrated, and lived has the power to save this world, but NOT in the way we have been told through religion.



As usual

Let's Discuss

Is it that you are swimming in the ocean of confusion concerning the bible or what?

PastorAIO:




May I present two different 'versions' that are often conflated?

1) Jesus came to save us from our Sinful Nature

2) Jesus came to save us from the consequences of our Sinful acts

The idea is that we are not Sinners because we have Sinned, but rather we Sin because we are sinners.

If it is our Sinful nature that we to be saved from and we become a new kind of creature then Jesus' salvation project has failed in the case of the greater majority of Christians. They all still have their extremely sinful nature and the subsequent sinful acts abound.

If it is the consequences of our Sins that he has come to save us from, and those consequences culminate in our final destination in the afterlife, then we cannot judge until such a time whether he has failed or not. If there are consequences of sin before the final day of reckoning and we have been saved from those then Christians should be living better lives than non christians and a christian thief that gets caught will not suffer any consequences, neither will the christian womanizer that catches venereal disease will be cured of his disease.
If the particular consequence that we are saved from is not physical but spiritual christians will continue to suffer the physical consequences of their sins but whether the 'other' intangible consequences are escaped we can not know because we do not experience them .

There are other consequences of these beliefs. If one believes that his sins are forgiven despite his continuing to sin this will only encourage most people to sin further. This teaching encourages moral corruption. This, i believe, is why Nigerians are so morally corrupt, what was already a bad situation was made exponentially worse by these false 'christian' teachings. Note: Jesus did not teach any of these himself.

I agree with the emboldened part.. ...
That's why we seems to lack in every aspect of our life's
We glorify vain things and allow our spirituality to die and go into extinction
And man is made up of his physical and spiritual being.......


That's why we keep confusing Jesus Christ teaching to man thoughts and teachings.
He did say that at the last day.. ... Their would be a lot of false prophet and teachers of the word.. ... But it's ur level of understanding of the word and ur spirituality that would make u to descern the good from the corrupted word of these false sugarcoated teachers of our generation

Kay17:


Christians should try as much as possible to use non Christians as yardsticks for their spiritual progress because everyday, there is no difference between the 'saved' and the 'unsaved'.

You simply said the truth here. Especially the bold. Its quite a pity.

^^^^well, you made quite some good points here. This makes the picture clearer for this discussion.

@ MizMycoli
Now you have modified your question making it more objective as against your initial questions that followed the thread which came off as putting the blame on Him.
I will be back, am reading some of your religious threads.

Your words are deep! Too many why nots, what ifs....although I agree with some.

***********************************
Let me answer the question of the thread before going into your hypothesis.
I don't believe that Jesus needs to save the world than what he had done, rather save His people by raising men/women of virtue to formulate policies that will create peace. More so, he knew it will get to this.

Jesus never brought religion but Love,Tolerance, Peace....Hope etc. The Jews never accepted Him because they had a warped concept of his ruler ship.

I don't want to go biblical but you also need to know this: This world is damn; too many evil people with few good people. Too much politics is involved in every happenings in world.

On the issue of religion. The evil of men have bastardized religion to further create division. Even before Jesus came, has the world been set right with the practising religion of the olden days? What is religion? Isn't it a way of life;a guideline or precept on what to do or not to which invariably means LAW. The question now is: why do we need law?

I have n I still find myself in a situation where I question if God truly exist to allow all these evil. But I found the answer in God's words. I am not of this world, I can also take charge with the choices I make, with prayers(if I believe), and more importantly,there are always two kinds of people,things etc.

Lastly, if you believe, you just preached with your last statement which is a clarion call for everybody irrespective of what they believe in or not, to promote justice, fairness and peace with their fellow being

AgapeCharis: Nt jx her. If u are as well or anyone else on this platform. Wateva d confusion is abt God/Christianity, I believe when light is shed on the subject, the confusion will stop

you intend to shed light while you are inside the dark cage of mental slavery? the lost generation of Africa.
snakes are beautiful, we use them as pets. we are not under the bondage of jewish mythologies.

smartigo:
@ MizMycoli
Now you have modified your question making it more objective as against your initial questions that followed the thread which came off as putting the blame on Him.
I will be back, am reading some of your religious threads.

Your words are deep! Too many why nots, what ifs....although I agree with some.

***********************************
Let me answer the question of the thread before going into your hypothesis.
I don't believe that Jesus needs to save the world than what he had done, rather save His people by raising men/women of virtue to formulate policies that will create peace. More so, he knew it will get to this.

Jesus never brought religion but Love,Tolerance, Peace....Hope etc. The Jews never accepted Him because they had a warped concept of his ruler ship.

I don't want to go biblical but you also need to know this: This world is damn; too many evil people with few good people. Too much politics is involved in every happenings in world.

On the issue of religion. The evil of men have bastardized religion to further create division. Even before Jesus came, has the world been set right with the practising religion of the olden days? What is religion? Isn't it a way of life;a guideline or precept on what to do or not to which invariably means LAW. The question now is: why do we need law?

I have n I still find myself in a situation where I question if God truly exist to allow all these evil. But I found the answer in God's words. I am not of this world, I can also take charge with the choices I make, with prayers(if I believe), and more importantly,there are always two kinds of people,things etc.

Lastly, if you believe, you just preached with your last statement which is a clarion call for everybody irrespective of what they believe in or not, to promote justice, fairness and peace with their fellow being

@the bolded, prior to Jesus' adventure on earth, love, peace and hope must have existed; so what is this man bringing?!

Are hope and peace within the package of love?

smartigo:

Can you prove he never existed?

The story of jesus was actually an Egyptian myth of hours dated 5000 Bc, if you read about Hours you will eventually see that his story was stolen, a complete copy and paste. Also read about the council of nicea 325 ad were jesus was created by Pope Constantine.

They are yet to find a tomb of one figure ever mentioned in the Bible, but I can show you the tombs of figures which these biblical figures stole their stories from.

You can find the ark of noah till date but I can show you the ark of Khufu known as the nu ankh

Kay17:


@the bolded, prior to Jesus' adventure on earth, love, peace and hope must have existed; so what is this man bringing?!

Are hope and peace within the package of love?

Prior to His coming, there was never love,peace and hope in the true essence of it for mankind. Jesus brought love through FORGIVENESS, peace through Liberation by His word rather than with the sword and hope for a life after this world.

Jesus made it possible for the interaction between many races on the account of 'The day of Pentecost'. The word Christian was coined from Christ by the action of His followers.

mankand:


The story of jesus was actually an Egyptian myth of hours dated 5000 Bc, if you read about Hours you will eventually see that his story was stolen, a complete copy and paste. Also read about the council of nicea 325 ad were jesus was created by Pope Constantine.

They are yet to find a tomb of one figure ever mentioned in the Bible, but I can show you the tombs of figures which these biblical figures stole their stories from.

You can find the ark of noah till date but I can show you the ark of Khufu known as the nu ankh

Thank you for your reply but this doesn't prove he never existed. There is another Holy book that speaks of him as a prophet. So, why the conflicting story? I will like to have a copy of the Hours if possible.

smartigo:

Prior to His coming, there was never love,peace and hope in the true essence of it for mankind. Jesus brought love through FORGIVENESS, peace through Liberation by His word rather than with the sword and hope for a life after this world.

Jesus made it possible for the interaction between many races on the account of 'The day of Pentecost'. The word Christian was coined from Christ by the action of His followers.

This is an idealized distortion of human history in order to make sense out of Christianity. Love, hope and forgiveness can be fulfilled by just a single act, just one act. It is an exaggeration to claim that prior to Jesus, no human being with filled with raging emotions or weakness ever did an act of love.

I think the best form of morality is that which promotes self perfection. I hope you agree with me, I doubt if loving your neighbour(trying to seek her approval) makes one better. Besides, love has an element of sacrifice involved, therefore sacrificing one's self for a neighbour is a hatred for one's self.

smartigo:


Thank you for your reply but this doesn't prove he never existed. There is another Holy book that speaks of him as a prophet. So, why the conflicting story? I will like to have a copy of the Hours if possible.

No history book ever made mention of jesus, no greek history book ever made mention of him as prophet

mankand:


No history book ever made mention of jesus, no greek history book ever made mention of him as prophet

Do you have a copy of the Quran? It does. I only used the word prophet because that is what he was called in the book while we Christians call him savior.

smartigo:

Do you have a copy of the Quran? It does. I only used the word prophet because that is what he was called in the book while we Christians call him savior.

Don't discuss with empty heads. They always have paralysed view over religious issues. There are atheists who discuss religion with a broad mind. Restrict your discussion with atheists to such persons. Kay17, Xcapists, Generalshepherd etc. are some reasonable atheists here. Stop wasting your time with paralysed mindsets. That's my humble advice.

honourhim:


Don't discuss with empty heads. They always have paralysed view over religious issues. There are atheists who discuss religion with a broad mind. Restrict your discussion with atheists to such persons. Kay17, Xcapists, Generalshepherd etc. are some reasonable atheists here. Stop wasting your time with paralysed mindsets. That's my humble advice.

Thank you. I never knew o. This is my first time around this section. The phone section is my domain.
Well noted n Happy Sunday.

smartigo:


Thank you. I never knew o. This is my first time around this section. The phone section is my domain.
Well noted n Happy Sunday.

Thanks bro. Happy sunday.