OLAADEGBU:


Really? Are you really saying that two or more persons can share the title Jehovah, even satan? Have you got any biblical reference to buttress your point? Let me ask you again. Who was Mary referring to when she said the following:

"For he that is mighty has done to me great things; and holy is his name" (Luke 1:49).



So you have changed your tune now to say Jehovah is called "a Mighty God" and "THE ALMIGHTY"? You are surely making it up as we go along. No problem. But remember that you have claimed that satan, angels and many others bear the title "Jehovah" are you not tying yourself up in knots?



I am not denying that the Father is God. You are the one denying both the Father and the Son by saying anyone can bear the title "Jehovah"

"Whosoever denies the Son, the same has not the Father: (but) he that acknowledges the Son has the Father also" (1 John 2:23).

@bolded, you are mistaken. Jehovah is the personal name of The Father alone - Psalms 83:18

Even the name Jesus or Yehoshuah is derived from it. Jesus can not share that personal name with Jehovah as much Jehovah can't share the name Jesus..

But Man, Angels, Satan, Jesus and Jehovah share the title God. That is a Fact.

OLAADEGBU:


If you say that the created Jesus is a God, how then does a creature become a God? Considering the fact that to be God you have to be uncreated, eternal and omniscient.

Can an Eternal being die at all? Please do not define God using a dictionary. The word God is a relious word only, so use the bible to define it.

OLAADEGBU:

"But unto the Son He says, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of your Kingdom" (Hebrew 1:8.)

You should also read, verse 9 " That's why God (Jehovah), YOUR GOD, has anionted you with the oil of gladness above YOUR FELLOWS"

Jesus has Fellows whom he was anionted above, plus he was anionted by some who is his personal God (Fact). Jehovah has never called Jesus "My" God, but Jesus has.

The problem with you Trinitarians is that you quickly see Jesus and the word God in a sentence and you go bam, Jesus is the Almighty God while you ignore other places where other beings are called God too.

OLAADEGBU:

Our Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God by nature (John 10:30). In contrast to the eternal Son, angels are sons of God by special creations just as humans. What God begets is God what humans beget are humans and what animals beget are animals. You do not beget what you make/create with your hands.

Then why use "Image" of the invisible God and "likeness" to discribe Jesus in Col 1:15 and Heb 1:3, same thing Man is.

OLAADEGBU:

Jesus is the God who created all things in Genesis 1:1. To be the God of all things you have to be the uncreated Creator.

Inferences, no visible evidence to back it up. Uncreated? Then why does he have a God w
hom he answers to? We can categorically say Jesus has a God can we do the same for Jehovah?

OLAADEGBU:

What do you mean when you say Christ is a compound Being?

I did not say that, nor have I any what you meant by compound being?

OLAADEGBU:

Your answer to my question above will give you the answer to these questions.

Evasive, just like always. Thanks for nothing!

OLAADEGBU:

Jesus as God is not capable of sinning. He gave us examples on how to overcome temptation to sin and satan.

Think about it, it can't be called a temptation if it is 100 % sure to go a positive way!

You said Jesus is Almighty God,
James 1:13 says God can not be tempted.
Everyone knows Jesus was tempted,
So who is lying here? You or the bible ?

OLAADEGBU:


Read up on the link I suggested in the OP for answers to your questions.

Sir, we are having a discussion on these thread. If I want to show u something from the bible or any book , I post (sometimes, copy and paste ) it here for all to see. Pls dnt direct me to a link. If you want to show, tell me anything , or u want to answer my question , post it here So that everyone will see. I'm not the one to start searching for answers to the questions I asked you, if you really want to answer the questions , you will post the answers for us to see.

You should know most of the people reading this thread are searching for the thruth, and anybody ready to try and speak the truth must be ready to take time and post the truth. Dnt direct us to any link .

I asked for simple questions , pls answer in ur own words or in words you believe in .
We have been having discussion with someone who we believe has a different understanding of trinity when compared to yours, hence we are asking questions to clarify the differences first, before we go into the main discussion .

Syncan:



Yes Jesus is Yahweh. I am sure I have said that before here. You may ask your other brothers in"God created the world through a god". They could show you my posts, since you've not been reading.

Thanks for answering my post .


question,
Is the person of jesus the same as the father.?

Ur answer no.
Mr oladeegbu, is this statement true?

Is there any verse that says jesus is jehovah , or are u attributing jesus is also called jehovah because of ur belief that jesus is God ?

RikoduoSennin:


Stop clinging to John 1:1, I have also showed you Hosea 12:3,4 and other scriptures that shows that Angels are God too.

Mystery? That's the problem, you don't understand, same with Evolutionist- they don't fully understand what they are saying/believe. I understand what I believe, I follow the evidence.

Jesus is a mighty God.
Jesus has a God above him.
The God who heads over Jesus is Jehovah.
Jehovah answers to no one, he is not sent by anyone, he does not pray to anyone, he can not die, he doesn't have Father, Mother, Sisters nor brothers but only a beloved son and other Sons (angels/humans). He also is the source.

Counter any of the above with scriptures not making you assertion of some passages in the bible.

He who has hear, let them hear.

what are you saying about clinging to John 1:1? Is it not in the Bible? Or is it that you're afraid to see the truth? Is it not the same bible you used to bring out your reference that i used to bring out mine?
And if you read my post well, yes, i quoted John 1:1, true but my reference was John 1:1-18!

If you say angels are gods and we as human are higher than the angels, and will one day judge angels(Cor. 6:3) then what are we?

The christian life was never about evidence, it was and is still about FAITH!
the bible is also not about evidence but about the revelation of Jesus Christ as the Son of God, God, the Way, the Truth and the Life!
if you can't have faith and believe, you just keep on waiting on eveidences, i'm sorry to say this but that individual can't make heaven.

You say Jesus is not God-yes! Thats what you're trying to say when you typed that Jesus has a God above Him-yet Jesus has a Name that is above every other name(Phil.2:9) and a Name every knee bows to(Phil.2:10), isn't what you're saying conflicting?

Philippians 2:10-11 New King James Version (NKJV)
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth,
11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

If you look at the scripture above you would see that Jesus is called Lord and you can't have two Lords just like you can't have two captains in a ship. Thus, that verse is saying Jesus is Lord, Jesus is God.

Also the sripture above states that '...confess that Jesus is Lord, to the Glory of God the Father.'
if you have an understanding of that verse/portion, you will see that it is referring or stating Their hierarchy in the Trinity aspect.
Look at it '...to the glory of God the Father.!' not God and it is also saying that Jesus is God the Son, it is only a son that gives/brings glory to the father

see an example, the oba of benin.
1. The oba of benin is an oba because he is the son of an oba.
So is Jesus God because He is the son of God.
2. The oba of benin is also oba the son because he is the son of the previous oba e.g oba Erediuwa I the son of oba Akenza II.
So is Jesus God the Son because He is the only begotten Son of the Father. Since Jesus' Father is a God that automatically makes Him a God too, abi na

Angels are not Gods, also read this www.gotquestions.org/angels-Bible.html and i will like you to quote your references here saying angels are gods and i don't mean plucking out a sentence from the verse oo, you type the whole verse(s) for us to see

Counter any of the above with scriptures not making you assertion of some passages in the bible.

i'm not making an assertion! I'm 'giving' you an understanding of the Word of God because you are just misinterpreting It! You are just quoting it without 'reading' hidden meaning in it, without having a concrete understanding. The Bible is not an English book which you understand by human reasoning.
The Bible is the Word of God that a person reads and understands with the help of the Holy Spirit

Continued....



Under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, the apostle Peter wrote, “He Himself bore our sins in His body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by His wounds you have been healed.” In Isaiah 53, Jesus’ future life on earth was foretold in the clearest of terms, to include his eventual torture and death: “But He was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon Him, and by His wounds (stripes) we are healed” ( Isaiah 53:5; 1 Peter 2:24).
Although these two verses are central to the topic of healing, they are often misunderstood and misapplied. The word “healed” as translated from both Hebrew and Greek, can mean either spiritual or physical healing. However, the contexts of Isaiah 53and 1 Peter 2make it clear that they are referring to spiritual healing, not physical. “He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed” ( 1 Peter 2:24). The verse is referring to sin and righteousness, not sickness and disease. Therefore, being “healed” in both these verses is speaking of being forgiven and saved, not being physically healed.



Credits to gotquestions.org

RikoduoSennin:


Can an Eternal being die at all? Please do not define God using a dictionary. The word God is a relious word only, so use the bible to define it.



You should also read, verse 9 " That's why God (Jehovah), YOUR GOD, has anionted you with the oil of gladness above YOUR FELLOWS"

Jesus has Fellows whom he was anionted above, plus he was anionted by some who is his personal God (Fact). Jehovah has never called Jesus "My" God, but Jesus has.

The problem with you Trinitarians is that you quickly see Jesus and the word God in a sentence and you go bam, Jesus is the Almighty God while you ignore other places where other beings are called God too.



Then why use "Image" of the invisible God and "likeness" to discribe Jesus in Col 1:15 and Heb 1:3, same thing Man is.




Inferences, no visible evidence to back it up. Uncreated? Then why does he have a God w
hom he answers to? We can categorically say Jesus has a God can we do the same for Jehovah?




I did not say that, nor have I any what you meant by compound being?




Evasive, just like always. Thanks for nothing!




Think about it, it can't be called a temptation if it is 100 % sure to go a positive way!

You said Jesus is Almighty God,
James 1:13 says God can not be tempted.
Everyone knows Jesus was tempted,
So who is lying here? You or the bible ?

i will like you to define God according to your 'religious' terms.

Tell me who are 'THE FELLOWS'?

I will like you to state complete verses of where other beings were called God, and we'll analyse from there

do you believe in the Trinity?

Quote Col.1:15 and Heb 1:3, type it here

also quote where/when Jesus answered to God?

You're wrong there good things/deeds don't tempt/lure a person

yes the Bible states that God can't be tempted and Jesus was tempted. You see when I said you do not understand what you're quoting, I was right!

Jesus was tempted because He was in flesh, He had a human body. There is no being which is born of a human that has not been tempted and that will not be tempted.
He had to become human to become the world's Saviour, so even though He is God as far as the human flesh is on Him, He must go through the normal/regular/certain human life/procedures which include temptation.
Think of it, if He could not be tempted in human form, satan would have no doubt He is God and thereby satan would not fall for the trap of 'killing' Him and the tables won't turn!

OLAADEGBU:


Jesus Possesses the Attributes of God
Jesus possesses attributes that belong only to God.

Jesus is eternal. John 1:1 affirms: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” The word was in this verse is an imperfect tense, indicating continuous, ongoing existence. When the timespace universe came into being, Christ already existed (Hebrews 1:8–11).

Jesus is self-existent. As the Creator of all things (John 1:3; Colossians 1:16; Hebrews 1:2), Christ himself must be uncreated. Colossians 1:17 tells us that Christ is “before all things, and in Him all things consist.”

Jesus is everywhere-present. Christ promised His disciples, “Where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them” (Matthew 18:20). Since people all over the world gather in Christ’s name, the only way He could be present with them all is if He is truly omnipresent (see Matthew 28:20; Ephesians 1:23, 4:10; Colossians 3:11).

Jesus is all-knowing. Jesus knew where the fish were in the water (Luke 5:4, 6; John 21:6–11), and He knew just which fish contained the coin (Matthew 17:27). He knew the future (John 11:11, 18:4), specific details that would be encountered (Matthew 21:2–4), and knew from a distance that Lazarus had died (John 11:14). He also knows the Father as the Father knows Him (Matthew 11:27; John 7:29, 8:55, 10:15, 17:25).

Jesus is all-powerful. Christ created the entire universe (John 1:3; Colossians 1:16; Hebrews 1:2) and sustains the universe by His own power (Colossians 1:17; Hebrews 1:3). During His earthly ministry, He exercised power over nature (Luke 8:25), physical diseases (Mark 1:29–31), demonic spirits (Mark 1:32–34), and even death (John 11:1–44).

Jesus is sovereign. Christ presently sits at the right hand of God the Father, “angels and authorities and powers having been made subject to Him” (1 Peter 3:22). When Christ comes again in glory, He will be adorned with a majestic robe, and on the thigh section of the robe will be the words, “KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS” (Revelation 19:16).

Jesus is sinless. Jesus challenged Jewish leaders: “Which of you convicts Me of sin?” (John 8:46). The apostle Paul referred to Jesus as “Him who knew no sin” (2 Corinthians 5:21). Jesus is one who “loved righteousness and hated lawlessness” (Hebrews 1:9), was “without sin” (Hebrews 4:15), and was “holy, harmless, [and] undefiled” (Hebrews 7:26).

Source: https://answersingenesis.org/jesus-christ/jesus-is-god/is-jesus-god/

Jesus Possesses the Authority of God (Continued)

Jesus always spoke in His own divine authority. He never said, "Thus saith the Lord" as did the prophets; He always said, "Verily, verily, I say unto you. . . ." He never retracted anything He said, never guessed or spoke with uncertainty, never made revisions, never contradicted himself, and never apologized for what He said. He even asserted, "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away" (Mark 13:31), hence elevating His words directly to the realm of heaven.

Source: https://answersingenesis.org/jesus-christ/jesus-is-god/is-jesus-god/

TheTerrible:


what are you saying about clinging to John 1:1? Is it not in the Bible? Or is it that you're afraid to see the truth? Is it not the same bible you used to bring out your reference that i used to bring out mine?
And if you read my post well, yes, i quoted John 1:1, true but my reference was John 1:1-18!

Afraid of the truth, No. John 1:1-18 did not prove that Jesus is Amighty God but it did prove that he is A God you know.

I just want you to consider what kind of God is Jesus. If Jesus has a God- surely he can't be the an Almighty God. And he does.

Its a shame that you are quick to believe Thomas more than Jesus whom you claim to follow.( Thomas call Jesus God, Jesus called the Father his God and our God why?)

TheTerrible:

If you say angels are gods and we as human are higher than the angels, and will one day judge angels(Cor. 6:3) then what are we?

I did not say, Your bible say Angel is God. And they are greater than Humans in everyway. Only Few humans who will go to heaven will judge them not all humankind.

Jesus even said Human judges were called Gods, did he not?

TheTerrible:

The christian life was never about evidence, it was and is still about FAITH!
the bible is also not about evidence but about the revelation of Jesus Christ as the Son of God, God, the Way, the Truth and the Life!
if you can't have faith and believe, you just keep on waiting on eveidences, i'm sorry to say this but that individual can't make heaven.

Read Hebrew 11:1 again, your will see the word "Evidence" associated with the definition of Bible Faith. You can't remove Evidence from it. Bible Faith is not blind like Atheist Faith. Comments like yours is misguided.

Acts 17:2- Paul REASON with people. Making use of our faculty/reasoning is good.

TheTerrible:

You say Jesus is not God-yes! Thats what you're trying to say when you typed that Jesus has a God above Him -yet Jesus has a Name that is above every other name(Phil.2:9) and a Name every knee bows to(Phil.2:10), isn't what you're saying conflicting?

@bolded, You are not listening to me at all, I have never said Jesus is not a Mighty God, I have only said he is not God the Almighty because he has a God over him.

I did not just type it I quoted Jesus saying just that- John 20:17, but you skillfully avioded that because it doesn't suit your beliefs. How sad.

Do you know how he got that name? His God and My God gave him his name the same way your own Fatther/Mother gave you your name. His your name greater than your Father's name? So also Jehovah is greater that Jesus' new name.

TheTerrible:

Philippians 2:10-11 New King James Version (NKJV)
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth,
11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

If you look at the scripture above you would see that Jesus is called Lord and you can't have two Lords just like you can't have two captains in a ship. Thus, that verse is saying Jesus is Lord, Jesus is God.

@bolded, So you have never read- "My Lord said to My Lord" from the bible, how many "Lord" is there? If you can't understand simple maths- what am I doing. Even Sarah called Abraham her Lord, what does that make Abramham- God.

If it applys that Jesus is Lord means he is God, get ready for everyone called Lord in the bible is also God unless you want to change the rules again.

TheTerrible:

Also the sripture above states that '...confess that Jesus is Lord, to the Glory of God the Father.'
if you have an understanding of that verse/portion, you will see that it is referring or stating Their hierarchy in the Trinity aspect.
Look at it '...to the glory of God the Father.!' not God and it is also saying that Jesus is God the Son, it is only a son that gives/brings glory to the father

You see all your bais reasonings above, all knee bow dow to whose Glory ( ?) Not Jesus but to the Father. Proving that they are different being and Glory giving to Jesus is from the Father not the other way around, man glorifying Jesus does not end with Jesus but goes through him to the Father.

TheTerrible:

see an example, the oba of benin.
1. The oba of benin is an oba because he is the son of an oba.
So is Jesus God because He is the son of God.
2. The oba of benin is also oba the son because he is the son of the previous oba e.g oba Erediuwa I the son of oba Akenza II.
So is Jesus God the Son because He is the only begotten Son of the Father. Since Jesus' Father is a God that automatically makes Him a God too, abi na

Are both Oba the Same? Are they equal? Is the recent Oba the source of that title? Can the recent Oba exist without his predesessor?

TheTerrible:

Angels are not Gods, also read this www.gotquestions.org/angels-Bible.html and i will like you to quote your references here saying angels are gods and i don't mean plucking out a sentence from the verse oo, you type the whole verse(s) for us to see

What is that site for? Why should I replace the bible for that site. 1 cor 4:6 " Do not go beyond what is written in the scriptures"

Who wrestle with Jacob, who spoke with Moses in the bushing bush, who spoke with Abraham etc I have already quoted those scriptures but you skillfully avioded them. Read my previous post.

TheTerrible:

i'm not making an assertion! I'm 'giving' you an understanding of the Word of God because you are just misinterpreting It! You are just quoting it without 'reading' hidden meaning in it, without having a concrete understanding. The Bible is not an English book which you understand by human reasoning.
The Bible is the Word of God that a person reads and understands with the help of the Holy Spirit

Your accusations are basedless. The bible was written with clear languages so that all can easily understand it except the Prophecy and Revelation part.

TheTerrible:



i will like you to define God according to your 'religious' terms.

I Tim 1:17 " Eternal King, IMMORTAL, INVISIBLE" Rev 4:11 " Creator of Everything and Everyone"

TheTerrible:

Tell me who are 'THE FELLOWS'?

Throwing my question back at me, the scripture said it, who are they talking about. Or isn't the previous verse talking about Jesus?

TheTerrible:

I will like you to state complete verses of where other beings were called God, and we'll analyse from there

2 Cor 4:4 "Satan called God"
Hosea 12: 3,4- "Angel called God" etc

do you believe in the Trinity?

No, because I find it difficult for 3 persons to be co-equal, co-eternal yet they are "one" (In what way? )
Not to mention one sent the other two on errands.

How can Jesus have a God and he still being Almighty?

TheTerrible:

Quote Col.1:15 and Heb 1:3, type it here


Col 1:15 " who is the IMAGE of the INVISIBLE God, the Firstborn of EVERY CREATURE"

Heb 1:3 " who is the REFLECTION of his Glory, and the express IMAGE of his person.....

[quote author=TheTerrible post=28589819]
also quote where/when Jesus answered to God?

John 7:16 "Jesus answered them and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me"

John 4:34 " Jesus said unto them, my meat is to do the will of him that sent me and to finish (?) His work".

Who sent Jesus? Jesus is Jehovah's puppet!

TheTerrible:

yes the Bible states that God can't be tempted and Jesus was tempted.

So what does that tell you! Don't make excuses for Jesus.

TheTerrible:

You see when I said you do not understand what you're quoting, I was right!

Really? Does James 1:13 have another meaning I am missing. That there is an exception for God to be tempted name "being in human form".

If Jesus is not Capable of sinning even in human form because he is a God, he should not be tempted too, don't you think.

TheTerrible:

Jesus was tempted because He was in flesh, He had a human body. There is no being which is born of a human that has not been tempted and that will not be tempted.
He had to become human to become the world's Saviour, so even though He is God as far as the human flesh is on Him, He must go through the normal/regular/certain human life/procedures which include temptation.

So does Jesus being a Human make him a less of a God? I thought in him there exist the FULLNESS of the Godhead. So why was God tempted again?

Did Jesus reliquish is Godship while on earth as a human!

TheTerrible:

Think of it, if He could not be tempted in human form, satan would have no doubt He is God and thereby satan would not fall for the trap of 'killing' Him and the tables won't turn!

I don't understand, but never mind. Let's talk about something else.

Please tell me, Did the bible speak of Jesus having a God? Yes or No. Please give scriptural evidence not blind faith.

OLAADEGBU:


Jesus Possesses the Authority of God (Continued)

Jesus always spoke in His own divine authority. He never said, "Thus saith the Lord" as did the prophets; He always said, "Verily, verily, I say unto you. . . ." He never retracted anything He said, never guessed or spoke with uncertainty, never made revisions, never contradicted himself, and never apologized for what He said. He even asserted, "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away" (Mark 13:31), hence elevating His words directly to the realm of heaven.

Source: https://answersingenesis.org/jesus-christ/jesus-is-god/is-jesus-god/

Sir, I'm going to discuss some of the assertions you made on jesus and his attributes, but can u first of All answer the questions I asked you ? Pls do answer them , so that we can have a better understanding of trinity .
Moreover , some , if not all of the attributes you claim jesus had have been debunked in previous replies to you. You have refused to comment on the scriptures used to debunk your claim and have become evasive.
I will repeat some of those sriptures and add more, but first of all , answer the 4 questions I asked please

[quote author=OLAADEGBU post=28603871]



This are the questions again

I asked :
1)what is a God. (what do u
understand by the term God)
2) what do you understand by the term Christ)
3) can you qoute and explain to us proverbs 8: 20 to 31

4) is the person jesus the same as the person father?

TheTerrible:


1. You know in christianity, we say the person has slept not died that aside lets just say that when Jesus died, the Father was in heaven watching an infinite-dimensional real time thriller of Jesus in hell disgracing satan, breaking protocols and setting the captives free with the Power of the Holy Spirit.
Also have in mind that God/Trinity is omnipresent, so you can say at that moment the Trio were on the Throne and at the same time in Hell

2. Lets just say Jesus was freed from the confinement of His physical body so He can enter hell

notice d underlined ..... You are caught offside ! You cant answer dat question bcoz the whole doctrine is FALSE

OLAADEGBU:


Who is, who was and who is to come? Are we expecting the second coming of the Father or the Son?

Calm down, the second coming of the Son is by the will of whom ??

" I cannot do a single thing of my own initiative , just as i hear, I judge, and my judgement is righteous Beacause I seek not my own will, but the will of HIM WHO SENT me" - Joh 5:30

" I do nothing of my own initiative; but Just as the Father taught me" - Joh 7:29

RikoduoSennin:


Afraid of the truth, No. John 1:1-18 did not prove that Jesus is Amighty God but it did prove that he is A God you know.

I just want you to consider what kind of God is Jesus. If Jesus has a God- surely he can't be the an Almighty God. And he does.

Its a shame that you are quick to believe Thomas more than Jesus whom you claim to follow.( Thomas call Jesus God, Jesus called the Father his God and our God why?)




I did not say, Your bible say Angel is God. And they are greater than Humans in everyway. Only Few humans who will go to heaven will judge them not all humankind.

Jesus even said Human judges were called Gods, did he not?




Read Hebrew 11:1 again, your will see the word "Evidence" associated with the definition of Bible Faith. You can't remove Evidence from it. Bible Faith is not blind like Atheist Faith. Comments like yours is misguided.

Acts 17:2- Paul REASON with people. Making use of our faculty/reasoning is good.



@bolded, You are not listening to me at all, I have never said Jesus is not a Mighty God, I have only said he is not God the Almighty because he has a God over him.

I did not just type it I quoted Jesus saying just that- John 20:17, but you skillfully avioded that because it doesn't suit your beliefs. How sad.

Do you know how he got that name? His God and My God gave him his name the same way your own Fatther/Mother gave you your name. His your name greater than your Father's name? So also Jehovah is greater that Jesus' new name.



@bolded, So you have never read- "My Lord said to My Lord" from the bible, how many "Lord" is there? If you can't understand simple maths- what am I doing. Even Sarah called Abraham her Lord, what does that make Abramham- God.

If it applys that Jesus is Lord means he is God, get ready for everyone called Lord in the bible is also God unless you want to change the rules again.



You see all your bais reasonings above, all knee bow dow to whose Glory ( ?) Not Jesus but to the Father. Proving that they are different being and Glory giving to Jesus is from the Father not the other way around, man glorifying Jesus does not end with Jesus but goes through him to the Father.



Are both Oba the Same? Are they equal? Is the recent Oba the source of that title? Can the recent Oba exist without his predesessor?




What is that site for? Why should I replace the bible for that site. 1 cor 4:6 " Do not go beyond what is written in the scriptures"

Who wrestle with Jacob, who spoke with Moses in the bushing bush, who spoke with Abraham etc I have already quoted those scriptures but you skillfully avioded them. Read my previous post.





Your accusations are basedless. The bible was written with clear languages so that all can easily understand it except the Prophecy and Revelation part.

i could not even read your 'counters'. it looks so jam-packed.

Why don't you, in each reply attack a point? And also type the scriptures out here!

So could you please reply me again with your 'concrete counters'

queensley55:
Jesus is or was an angel from heaven to earth..As the world was going astral God sent him on earth to preach the gospel,he was not God's son or God himself.

you made good points till u said he isn't God's son. He's God's son John 3:16

OLAADEGBU:


Jesus Possesses the Authority of God (Continued)

Jesus always spoke in His own divine authority. He never said, "Thus saith the Lord" as did the prophets; He always said, "Verily, verily, I say unto you. . . ." He never retracted anything He said, never guessed or spoke with uncertainty, never made revisions, never contradicted himself, and never apologized for what He said. He even asserted, "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away" (Mark 13:31), hence elevating His words directly to the realm of heaven.

Source: https://answersingenesis.org/jesus-christ/jesus-is-god/is-jesus-god/

Jesus Performs the Works of God

Jesus' deity is also proved by His miracles. His miracles are often called "signs" in the New Testament. Signs always signify something—in this case, that Jesus is the divine Messiah.

Some of Jesus' more notable miracles include turning water into wine (John 2:7–8; ) walking on the sea (Matthew 14:25; Mark 6:48; John 6:19); calming a stormy sea (Matthew 8:26; Mark 4:39; Luke 8:24); feeding 5,000 men and their families (Matthew 14:19; Mark 6:41; Luke 9:16; John 6:11); raising Lazarus from the dead (John 11:43–44); and causing the disciples to catch a great number of fish (Luke 5:5–6).

Jesus Is Worshiped as God

Jesus was worshiped on many occasions in the New Testament. He accepted worship from Thomas (John 20:28), the angels (Hebrews 1:6), some wise men (Matthew 2:11), a leper (Matthew 8:2), a ruler (Matthew 9:18,) a blind man (John 9:38), an anonymous woman (Matthew 15:25), Mary Magdalene (Matthew 28:9), and the disciples (Matthew 28:17).

Scripture is emphatic that only God can be worshiped (Exodus 34:14; Deuteronomy 6:13; Matthew 4:10). In view of this, the fact that both humans and angels worshiped Jesus on numerous occasions shows He is God.

Source: https://answersingenesis.org/jesus-christ/jesus-is-god/is-jesus-god/

CANTICLES:


notice d underlined ..... You are caught offside ! You cant answer dat question bcoz the whole doctrine is FALSE

can't see the underlined.....guess you need to 'bold' it

OLAADEGBU:


Jesus Truly Is God

There are numerous evidences for the absolute deity of Jesus Christ in the Bible. The following is a summary of the more important evidences.

Jesus Has the Names of God

Jesus Christ possesses divine names—names that can only be used of God. For example:

Jesus is Yahweh. Yahweh is a very common Hebrew name for God in the Old Testament, occurring over 5,300 times. It is translated Lord (all capitals) in many English translations of the Bible.

We first learn of this name in Exodus 3, where Moses asked God by what name He should be called. God replied to him, “I AM WHO I AM. . . .Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you’ ” (verse 14). Yahweh is basically a shortened form of “I AM WHO I AM” (verse 15). The name conveys the idea of eternal self-existence. Yahweh never came into being at a point in time for He has always existed.

Jesus implicitly ascribed this divine name to himself during a confrontation He had with a group of hostile Jews. He said, “I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM” (John 8:58). Jesus deliberately contrasted the created origin of Abraham—whom the Jews venerated—with His own eternal, uncreated nature as God./

I have waited for answers to my questions, no answers up till now, I will go and post replies as promised while still hoping ull answer my questions(unlike some others)

jesus is not jehovah/yaweh.
Jesus did not ascribe the name jehovah/yaweh to himself.
The name jehovah has been ascribed to God long before exodus .

He causes to become/i am who I am / I am what I am/he causes to be/ I shall prove to be what I shall prove to be /I Will Become whatsoever I please.” coveys to us the meaning of that name and who the person behind that name is .(this will be explained further in subsequent posts.)

Jehovah/yaweh Definition:
The personal name of the only true God. His own self- designation. Jehovah is the Creator and, rightfully, the Sovereign Ruler of the universe.

“Jehovah”/ "yaweh is translated from the Hebrew Tetragrammaton, יהוה, which means “He Causes to Become.” /I AM who I I AM, These four Hebrew letters are represented in many languages by the letters JHVH or YHWH.

Where is God’s name found in Bible translations that are commonly used today?

The New English Bible: The name Jehovah appears at Exodus 3:15; 6:3. See also Genesis 22:14; Exodus 17:15; Judges 6:24; Ezekiel 48:35. This and other translations use “Jehovah” in several places.

why are they not consistent in using it at every place where the Tetragrammaton appears in the Hebrew text(old testament)?
This is the reason why.

Revised Standard Version: A footnote on Exodus 3:15 says: “The word LORD when spelled with capital letters, stands for the divine name, YHWH.”

Today’s English Version: A footnote on Exodus 6:3 states: “THE LORD: . . . Where the Hebrew text has Yahweh, traditionally transliterated as Jehovah, this translation employs LORD with capital letters, following a usage which is widespread in English
versions.”

King James Version: The name Jehovah is found at Exodus 6:3; Psalm 83:18; Isaiah 12:2; 26:4. See also Genesis 22:14; Exodus 17:15; Judges 6:24.

American Standard Version: The name Jehovah is used consistently in the Hebrew Scriptures in this translation, beginning with Genesis 2:4.

Douay Version: A footnote on Exodus 6:3 says: “My name Adonai. The name, which is in the Hebrew text, is that most proper name of God, which signifieth his eternal, self- existing being, (Exod. 3, 14, Ex 3:14) which the Jews out of reverence never pronounce; but, instead of it, whenever it occurs in the Bible, they read Adonai, which signifies the Lord; and, therefore, they put the points or vowels, which belong to the name Adonai, to the four letters of that other ineffable name, Jod, He, Vau, He. Hence some moderns have framed the name of Jehovah, unknown to all the ancients, whether Jews or Christians; for the true pronunciation of the name, which is in the Hebrew text, by long disuse is now quite lost.”

(It is interesting that The Catholic Encyclopedia [1913, Vol. VIII, p. 329] states: “Jehovah, the proper name of God in the Old Testament; hence the Jews called it the name by excellence, the great name, the only name.”)

The Holy Bible translated by Ronald A. Knox: The name Yahweh is found in footnotes at Exodus 3:14 and Ex 6:3.

The Jerusalem Bible: The Tetragrammaton is translated Yahweh, starting with its first occurrence, at Genesis 2:4.

New World Translation: The name Jehovah is used in both the Hebrew and the Christian Greek Scriptures in this translation, appearing 7,210 times.

An American Translation: At Exodus 3:15 and Ex 6:3 the name Yahweh is used, followed by “the LORD” in brackets.

The Bible in Living English, S. T. Byington: The name Jehovah is used throughout the Hebrew Scriptures.

The Emphatic Diaglott, Benjamin Wilson:
The name Jehovah is found at Matthew 21:9 and in 17 other places in this translation of
the Christian Greek Scriptures.


Why do many Bible translations not use the personal name of God or use it only a few times?
The preface of the Revised Standard Version explains: “For two reasons the Committee has returned to the more familiar usage of the King James Version: (1) the word ‘Jehovah’ does not accurately represent any form of the Name ever used in Hebrew; and (2) the use of any proper name for the one and only God, as though there were other gods from whom he had to be distinguished, was discontinued in Judaism before the Christian era and is
entirely inappropriate for the universal faith of the Christian Church.” (Thus their own view of what is appropriate has been relied on as the basis for removing from the Holy Bible the personal name of its Divine Author, whose name appears in the original Hebrew more often than any other name or any title.
They admittedly follow the example of the adherents of Judaism, of whom Jesus said:
You have made the word of God invalid because of your tradition.”— Matt. 15:6.)

True Christians have a commission from Jesus Christ to make disciples of people of
all nations. When teaching these people, how would it be possible to identify the true
God as different from the false gods of the nations? Only by using His personal name,
as the Bible itself does.— Matt.
28:19, 20; 1 Cor. 8:5, 6.

Ex. 3:15: “God said . . . to Moses: ‘This is what you are to say to the sons of Israel, “Jehovah the God of your forefathers . . . has sent me to you.” This is my name to time indefinite, and this is the memorial of me to generation after generation.’”(Gods name will never change)
Isa. 12:4: “Give thanks to Jehovah, you people! Call upon his name. Make known among the peoples his dealings. Make mention that his name is put on high.”
Ezek. 38:17, 23: “This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said, ‘ . . . And I shall certainly magnify myself and sanctify myself and make myself known before the eyes of many nations; and they will have to know that I am Jehovah.’”
Mal. 3:16: “Those in fear of Jehovah spoke with one another, each one with his companion, and Jehovah kept paying attention and listening. And a book of remembrance began to be written up before him for those in fear of Jehovah and for those thinking upon his name.”

John 17:26: “[Jesus prayed to his Father:]
I have made your name known to them [his followers] and will make it known, in order that the love with which you loved me may be in them and I in union with them.”
(note: this shows jesus is a seperate person from jehovah, moreover the union jesus had with humans call for a serious explanation from those who believe in trinity)

Acts 15:14: “Symeon has related thoroughly how God for the first time turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name.”


Is Jehovah jesus?

Matt. 4:10: “Jesus said to him: ‘Go away, Satan! For it is written, “It is Jehovah [“the Lord,” king James version and others] your God you must
worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.”’” (Jesus was obviously not saying that he himself was to be worshiped.)

John 8:54: “Jesus answered [the Jews]: ‘If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father that glorifies me, he who you say is your God.’” (The Hebrew Scriptures clearly identify Jehovah as the God that the Jews professed to worship. Jesus said, not hat he himself was Jehovah, but that Jehovah was his Father. Jesus here made it very clear that he and his Father were distinct individuals.)

Ps. 110:1: “The utterance of Jehovah to my [David’s] Lord is: ‘Sit at my right hand until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.’” (At Matthew 22:41-45, Jesus explained that he himself was David’s “Lord,” referred to in this psalm. So Jesus is not Jehovah but is the one to whom Jehovah’s words were here directed.)

Phil. 2:9-11: “For this very reason also God exalted him [Jesus Christ] to a superior
position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name,(note: jesus did not have the name ascribed to here, but was giving,) so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground, and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.(note: to the glory of who? The father. Jesus is not the father. Notice that Jesus Christ is here shown to be different from God the Father and subject to Him.)

Jesus used God’s name.

In prayer, Jesus told Jehovah: “I have made your name known to them [Jesus’ disciples] and will make it known.” Why did Jesus make the divine name known to his disciples? He continued: “In order that the love with which
you [God] loved me may be in them and I in union with them.”—John 17:26.

Jesus is not jehovah, jesus is not the father, jesus is not the one true God. The father is the one true God and god of jesus.

[/b]

OLAADEGBU:




[b]Jesus is Kurios. The New Testament Greek equivalent of the Old Testament Hebrew name Yahweh is Kurios. Used of God, Kurios carries the idea of a sovereign being who exercises absolute authority. The word is translated Lord in English translations of the Bible.

THE AFFIRMATION THAT “JESUS IS LORD” (KURIOS) IN THE NEW TESTAMENT CONSTITUTES A CLEAR AFFIRMATION THAT JESUS IS YAHWEH. To an early Christian accustomed to reading the Old Testament, the word Lord, when used of Jesus, would point to His identification with the God of the Old Testament (Yahweh). Hence, the affirmation that “Jesus is Lord” (Kurios) in the New Testament constitutes a clear affirmation that Jesus is Yahweh, as is the case in passages like Romans 10:9, 1 Corinthians 12:3, and Philippians 2:5–11./

Kurios does[b]not[/b] carry the idea of a sovereign being who exercises absolute authority.

The New Testament Greek equivalent of the Old Testament Hebrew name Yahweh is not Kurios..

Kurios (κύριος) is a Greek word translating to "lord, master". It is notably the LXX translation of Adonai, the Biblical Hebrew title "my lord" given to YHWH and is also the original name of God translated as "lord" in the New Testament. ( the reason why lord is used in bible translation has been explained in previous posts. Kurios is Greek word for lord while adonai is Hebrew word for lord).

In Ancient Greece, a woman could not enter into a contract herself and arrangements were made by her guardian or Kurios.
For an unmarried woman the Kurios would be her father, and if dead, brothers an uncle or relative would be the Kurios.
In some cases, when reading the Hebrew Bible the Jews would substitute Adonai (my Lord) for the Tetragrammaton (the written representation of the Name of God), and they may have also substituted Kurios when reading to a Greek audience (as in the Septuagint translation).
Origen refers to both practices in his commentary on Psalms (2.2).[2] The practice was due to the desire not to overuse the name of God.

“Kyrios.” This Greek word is an adjective, signifying the possessing of power (ky′ros) or authority, and it is also used as a noun. It appears in each book of the Christian Greek Scriptures except Titus and the letters of John. The term corresponds to the Hebrew ʼA·dhohn′. As God’s created Son and Servant, Jesus Christ properly addresses his Father and God ( Joh 20:17) as “Lord” (ʼAdho·nai′ or Ky ′ri·os), the One having superior power and authority, his Head. ( Mt 11:25; 1Co 11:3) As the one exalted to his Father’s right hand, Jesus is “Lord of lords” as respects all except his Father, God the Almighty.— Re 17:14; 19:15, 16; compare 1Co 15:27, 28.
Its use in place of the divine name. During the second or third century of the Common Era, the scribes substituted the words Ky′ri·os (Lord) and The·os′ (God) for the divine name, Jehovah, in copies of the Greek Septuagint translation of the Hebrew Scriptures. Other translations, such as the Latin Vulgate, the Douay Version (based on the Vulgate), and the King James Version, as well as numerous modern translations (NE, AT, RS, NIV, TEV, NAB), followed a similar practice. The divine name was replaced by the terms “God” and “Lord,” generally in all-capital letters in English to indicate the substitution for the Tetragrammaton, or divine name.
In departing from this practice, the translation committee of the American Standard Version of 1901 stated: “The American Revisers, after a careful consideration, were brought to the unanimous conviction that a Jewish superstition, which regarded the Divine Name as too sacred to be uttered, ought no longer to dominate in the English or any other version of the Old Testament, as it fortunately does not in the numerous versions made by modern missionaries. . . .
This personal name [Jehovah], with its wealth of sacred associations, is now restored to the place in the sacred text to which it has an unquestionable claim.”—AS
preface, p. iv.
A number of translations since then (An, JB [English and French], NC, BC [both in Spanish], and others) have consistently rendered the Tetragrammaton as “Yahweh” or have used a similar form


If trinitarians believe that jesus is kurios, then he is God because God is refered to as kurios , then everybody referred to as kurios is God , right? .

OLAADEGBU:


.

Jesus is Elohim. Elohim is a Hebrew name that is used of God 2,570 times in the Old Testament. The name literally means “strong one,” and its plural ending (im in Hebrew) indicates fullness of power. Elohim is portrayed in the Old Testament as the powerful and sovereign governor of the universe, ruling over the affairs of humankind.

Jesus is recognized as both Yahweh and Elohim in the prophecy in Isaiah 40:3: “Prepare the way of the Lord [Yahweh]; make straight in the desert a highway for our God [Elohim].” This verse was written in reference to John the Baptist preparing for the coming of Christ (as confirmed in John 1:23) and represents one of the strongest affirmations of Christ’s deity in the Old Testament. In Isaiah 9:6, we likewise read a prophecy of Christ with a singular variant (El) of Elohim: “And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God [El], Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.”
d/

...
Jesus is Elohim. Elohim is not a Hebrew name, its a term.
Elohim is not portrayed in the Old Testament as the powerful and sovereign governor of the
universe, ruling over the affairs of humankind, jehovah , who also bears the term elohim is.




Among the Hebrew words that are translated “God” is ʼEl, probably meaning “Mighty One; Strong One.” ( Ge 14:18) It is used with reference to Jehovah, to other gods, and to men. It is also used extensively in the makeup of proper names, such as Elisha (meaning “God Is Salvation”) and Michael (“Who Is Like God?”). In some places ʼEl appears with the definite article (ha·ʼEl′, literally, “the God”) with reference to Jehovah, thereby distinguishing him from other gods.— Ge 46:3; 2Sa 22:31;

At Isaiah 9:6 Jesus Christ is prophetically called ʼEl Gib·bohr′, “Mighty God” (not ʼEl Shad·dai′ [God Almighty], which is applied to Jehovah at Genesis 17:1).

The plural form, ʼe·lim′, is used when referring to other gods, such as at Exodus 15:11(“gods”). It is also used as the plural of majesty and excellence, as in Psalm 89:6:
“Who can resemble Jehovah among the sons of God[bi·veneh′ ʼE·lim′]?” That the plural form is used to denote a single individual here and in a number of other places is supported by the translation of ʼE·lim′ by the singular form The·os′ in the Greek Septuagint; likewise by Deus in the Latin Vulgate.


The Hebrew word ʼelo·him′ (gods) appears to be from a root meaning “be strong.” ʼElo·him′ is the plural of ʼeloh′ah (god). Sometimes this plural refers to a number of gods ( Ge 31:30, 32; 35:2), but more often it is used as a plural of majesty, dignity, or excellence. ʼElo·him′ is used in the Scriptures with reference to Jehovah himself, to angels, to idol gods (singular and plural), and to men.

(note: you can see that its not only to Jehovah and jesus that the term elohim is used for . According to trinity, if kesus is elohim, jehovah is elohim, angel is elohim, men is Elohim, then all are God , right?)



When applying to Jehovah, ʼElo·him′ is used as a plural of majesty, dignity, or excellence. ( Ge 1:1) Regarding this, Aaron Ember wrote: “That the language of the O[ld] T[estament] has entirely given up the idea of plurality in . . . [ʼElo·him′] (as applied to the God of Israel) is especially shown by the fact that it is almost invariably construed with a singular verbal predicate, and takes a singular adjectival attribute. . . . [ʼElo·him′] must rather be explained as an intensive plural, denoting greatness and majesty, being equal to The Great God.”—The American Journal of Semitic Languages and Literatures, Vol. XXI, 1905, p. 208.


At Psalm 8:5, the angels are also referred to as ʼelo·him′, as is confirmed by Paul’s quotation of the passage at Hebrews 2:6-8.
They are called beneh ha·ʼElo·him′, “sons of God” (KJ); “sons of the true God” (NW), at Genesis 6:2, 4; Job 1:6; 2:1. Lexicon in
Veteris Testamenti Libros, by Koehler and Baumgartner (1958), page 134, says:
“(individual) divine beings, gods.” And page 51 says: “the (single) gods,” and it cites Genesis 6:2; Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7. Hence, at Psalm 8:5 ʼelo·him′ is rendered “angels” (LXX); “godlike ones” (NW).


The word ʼelo·him′ is also used when referring to idol gods. Sometimes this plural form means simply “gods.” ( Ex 12:12; 20:23)
At other times it is the plural of excellence and only one god (or goddess) is referred to.
However, these gods were clearly not trinities.— 1Sa 5:7b (Dagon); 1Ki 11:5
(“goddess” Ashtoreth); Da 1:2b (Marduk).
At Psalm 82:1, 6, ʼelo·him′ is used of men, human judges in Israel. Jesus quoted from this Psalm at John 10:34, 35. They were gods in their capacity as representatives of and spokesmen for Jehovah. Similarly Moses was told that he was to serve as “God” to Aaron and to Pharaoh.— Ex 4:16, ftn; 7:1.


In many places in the Scriptures ʼElo·him′ is also found preceded by the definite article ha. ( Ge 5:22) Concerning the use of ha·ʼElo·him′, F. Zorell says: “In the Holy Scriptures especially the one true God, Jahve, is designated by this word; . . . ‘Jahve is the [one true] God’ De 4:35; 4:39; Jos 22:34; 2Sa 7:28; 1Ki 8:60
etc.”—Lexicon Hebraicum Veteris Testamenti, Rome, 1984, p. 54; brackets his.

OLAADEGBU:



Jesus is Theos. The New Testament Greek word for God, Theos, is the corresponding parallel to the Old Testament Hebrew term Elohim. A well-known example of Christ being addressed as God (Theos) is found in the story of “doubting Thomas” in John 20. In this passage, Thomas witnesses the resurrected Christ and worshipfully responds: “My Lord and my God [Theos]” (John 20:28).

Jesus is called Theos throughout the rest of the New Testament. For example, when a jailer asked Paul and Silas how to be saved, they responded: “Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household” (Acts 16:31). After the jailer believed and became saved, he “rejoiced, having believed in God [Theos] with all his household” (verse 34). Believing in Christ and believing in God are seen as identical acts.

https://answersingenesis.org/jesus-christ/jesus-is-god/is-jesus-god/

Jesus is Theos.

The usual Greek equivalent of ʼEl and ʼElo·him′ in the Septuagint translation and the word for “God” or “god” in the Christian Greek Scriptures is the·os′.( note : the word theos refer to both God and god )
Same explanation on elohim applies to theos.
Believing in Christ and believing in God are not identical acts.

Jesus is a god , but he is not almighty God. Almighty God is jesus God, the one who annointed jesus.

RikoduoSennin:


Afraid of the truth, No. John 1:1-18 did not prove that Jesus is Amighty God but it did prove that he is A God you know.

I just want you to consider what kind of God is Jesus. If Jesus has a God- surely he can't be the an Almighty God. And he does.

Its a shame that you are quick to believe Thomas more than Jesus whom you claim to follow.( Thomas call Jesus God, Jesus called the Father his God and our God why?)

Here is the evidence that Jesus is God with a capital "G" who created all things.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

The simple logic of this verse can be summed up as thus:

THE WORD = GOD

In John 1:14 it states:

"The Word became flesh, and dwelt among us."

From these verses we can deduce the following:

JESUS = THE WORD

If A = B and

B = C  then

A = C.

Then,

JESUS = THE WORD and

THE WORD = GOD,

therefore:

JESUS = GOD

If you contend that John 1:1 should be translated as "The Word was a god," and not "The Word was God." And if you are arguing that since theos (the Greek word for God) is preceded by the definite article (the) when it first appears in the verse, and the second time it appears it is not preceded by the definite article, then will be justified for translating the last part of John 1:1 "the Word was a god," because God appears without the definite article.  And you claim that John 1:1 does not say anything about Jesus' identity (i.e,  that He is God), but refers to a quality about Him.  There are, however, no reputable authorities or translations that support your JW translation of this verse.  In fact, your NWT has caused considerable outrage among Greek scholars because it is a major distortion of the text.

We are not surprised that the JW's don't even play by their own rules, it is inconsistently applied throughout your NWT.  Theos appears 6 times without the definite article in the first 18 verses of John's gospel (1,6,12,13 and twice in 18).  Yet, in the NWT, it is rendered God (referring to Jehovah), not a god, in each instance except for the last clause of 1:1, when it refers to Jesus! Do you see your inconsistencies?

To remain consistent, the JW's must hold that verse 6 should read:

"There arose a man that was sent forth as a representative of a god,"

that verse 12 should read:

"to become a god's children," and so on.

If you observe carefully you will note that the absence of the definite article does not refer to someone other than the true God.  The scholarly Arndt and Gingrich Greek Lexicon, p. 357, states that theos is used "quite predominantly of the true God, sometimes with, sometimes without, the article."

RikoduoSennin:


Jehovah is not Omnipresent.

Matthew 6:9 "You must pray this way, Our Father who art in (?) HEAVEN".

John 20:17 " I have not yet ASCENDED to My Father...."

Jehovah has never left Heaven because Heaven is his throne and earth his footstool.

Gen 11:6 "And the Lord said.....go to, LET US GO DOWN and there confound their language...."

Why would he come down if he was Everwhere?

Why would Jesus need to descend or ascend if he was everywhere?

So JW doesn't believe that Jehovah God is Omnipresent? Now I understand why your organisation is called a cult.

RikoduoSennin:


@bolded, you are mistaken. Jehovah is the personal name of The Father alone - Psalms 83:18

Even the name Jesus or Yehoshuah is derived from it. Jesus can not share that personal name with Jehovah as much Jehovah can't share the name Jesus..

But Man, Angels, Satan, Jesus and Jehovah share the title God. That is a Fact.

It is beginning to become clear why you are not Christians. Christians call Jehovah God with a capital "G". He is the infinite, uncreated Creator which neither man, angels nor satan can attain. That is the truth.

dolphinheart:


Sir , pls dnt be angry , I ask questions so that I can have a better understanding of ur belief.

I refer to someone else post because what he said about trinity is different from what you are saying about trinity.
So if I or anyone is to belief in trinity, we have to know which of the statements on trinity is true, is it your or his?. Hence, the effort in trying to bring him into the topic to state his own side.

Now to the issue on the question I asked .

I asked :
1)what is a God. (what do u
understand by the term God)

See the attributes of God that I posted earlier. If you or angels have those attributes then you can see yourself as God.

dolphinheart:


2) what do you understand by the term Christ)

The anointed One.

dolphinheart:


3) can you qoute and explain to us proverbs 8: 20 to 31

Quotes and explanation from the New Defender's Study Bible Notes:

Proverbs 8:20
I lead in the way of righteousness, in the midst of the paths of judgment:
21
That I may cause those that love me to inherit substance; and I will fill their treasures.
22
The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
23
I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
24
When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
25
Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
26
While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
27
When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
28
When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
29
When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
30
Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
31
Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

Proverbs 8:22
8:22 possessed. “Possessed” is the same word as “acquired.” The Lord Jesus Christ was not merely the only Son of God, but the only begotten Son of God. He was “in the beginning” with God, and He was God (John 1:1-2). At the same time, He is the “only begotten” (John 1:18; 3:16; etc.), eternally proceeding from the Father (Micah 5:2). The doctrine of the “eternal generation” of the Son from the Father is beyond human comprehension, but can be apprehended by faith as the only way to explain all we know about the Father and the Son.


Proverbs 8:22
8:22 of old. God’s “ways” were before His “works.”


Proverbs 8:23
8:23 set up. “Set up” is the same word as “anointed.”


Proverbs 8:24
8:24 no depths. “Depths” is the same word as “deep;” this is a reference to the primeval “fountains of the great deep,” which provided the antediluvian water supply before they were “broken up” at the Flood (Genesis 7:11).


Proverbs 8:24
8:24 brought forth. Another reference to the “eternal generation” of the Son. He was before the earth, or anything.


Proverbs 8:26

Proverbs 8:27
8:27 compass. “Compass” (Hebrew khug) is the same word as “circle” in Isaiah 40:22, as well as “compassed” in Job 26:10. All three clearly refer to the roundness of the earth, especially to the spherical nature of sea level, defining, as it were, the global shape of the earth. The Bible never teaches a flat earth, though the charge is frequently made.


Proverbs 8:27
8:27 depth. “Depth” is the same word as “deep.”


Proverbs 8:28
8:28 the clouds. The word for “clouds” is also the word for “sky,” and means “thin vapor.” This seems to be a reference to the “waters above the firmament” in the original creation (Genesis 1:7), most likely an extensive canopy of water vapor.


Proverbs 8:28
8:28 fountains of the deep. A reference to the “fountains of the deep,” originally “strengthened” to provide firm conduits from the sub-terrestrial “deep” which provided water for the lands in the primeval hydrologic cycle.


Proverbs 8:29
8:29 not pass his commandment. These events evidently refer to the work of the third day of creation week, when the solid land materials emerged from the ubiquitous waters.


Proverbs 8:29
8:29 foundations of the earth. The “foundations of the earth” were not appointed until the third day. Compare Job 38:4-7, which speaks of the angels—who were created on the first day—as shouting for joy when the foundations of the earth were laid.


Proverbs 8:30
8:30 his delight. Presumably this is a reference to the joyful fellowship within the Godhead, dating from eternity past and expressed outwardly in the great work of Creation.

dolphinheart:


You answered:
Questions, questions and more questions.
When will you come to the knowledge of the truth? God is the uncreated infinite Creator
of all things.
Let me start you off on Isaiah 43:10 "You are my witnesses, says the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that you may know and believe me, and understand that I am He: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour " (Isaiah
43:10-11).
How does a creature become a God?
Please educate us


My comment :

Sir, on question (1) above, I asked what a God is , as both secular and biblical sources have made mention of many Gods, so that y I asked the question "what is a god" ? Y are they called Gods.
By ur answer u can see you have not answered question (1).

You have not answered question (2 )

You have not answered question (3) also.

Sorry pls, there is a 4th question

(4) is jesus the father? What I mean is that the person called the father, is he also the person called the son?

When you answer this questions , I will have a better understanding of ur view of trinity. Then I can be able to comment on your posts

Your questions are answered above. Now be prepared to answer my question on Isaiah 43:10. How does a creature like you and me become God?

TheTerrible:


how does the Queen say it?

I am flaterred!

You are certainly on the right track.

RikoduoSennin:


Can an Eternal being die at all? Please do not define God using a dictionary. The word God is a relious word only, so use the bible to define it.

You should also read, verse 9 " That's why God (Jehovah), YOUR GOD, has anionted you with the oil of gladness above YOUR FELLOWS"

Jesus has Fellows whom he was anionted above, plus he was anionted by some who is his personal God (Fact). Jehovah has never called Jesus "My" God, but Jesus has.

The problem with you Trinitarians is that you quickly see Jesus and the word God in a sentence and you go bam, Jesus is the Almighty God while you ignore other places where other beings are called God too.

Then why use "Image" of the invisible God and "likeness" to discribe Jesus in Col 1:15 and Heb 1:3, same thing Man is.

Inferences, no visible evidence to back it up. Uncreated? Then why does he have a God w
hom he answers to? We can categorically say Jesus has a God can we do the same for Jehovah?




I did not say that, nor have I any what you meant by compound being?

Evasive, just like always. Thanks for nothing!

Think about it, it can't be called a temptation if it is 100 % sure to go a positive way!

You said Jesus is Almighty God,
James 1:13 says God can not be tempted.
Everyone knows Jesus was tempted,
So who is lying here? You or the bible ?

All your ramblings did not solve any question. Let me take you up on Colossian 1:15 that is bolded above, even though your colleagues have failed to answer this same question.

"Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones or dominions or principalities or powers:  all things were created by him, and for him. And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.."  (Colossians 1:12-17).

Now let's focus on Colossians 1:15:

Does Colossians 1:15 highligted above teach that Jesus was created?

You will see here that Jesus is called the "first-born" of all creation.   The term "first-born" here does not imply "first-created" those two words mean two different things.   

You can see from the following points that Paul was not teaching that Jesus was created and he was definitely not saying that He was the firstborn of all creation: 

Birth and creation are not equivalent terms.  For example, the Bible teaches that Jesus was born of a virgin, but this does not mean that Jesus was created the day He was born of Virgin Mary and since birth and creation happen at different times, they cannot mean the same thing.

There are two different Greek words for "first-born" and "first-created" and Paul used the word which means "first-born" not "first-created"

Paul was not teaching that Jesus Christ is a created being because he further taught that Jesus Christ was really the Creator of all things.  If all things were created by Christ, He  cannot be created, otherwise there is something that Christ did not create and this verse would be in error when it states that Christ created all things.

Hebrews 1:10 and John 1:3 confirms that:

The Lord Jesus Christ is the Creator of everything that has been created and thus He must not be created, but God.

What does the title "first-born" mean?

Read what reputable Bible scholars say:

"This title refers to Christ's preeminent position and sovereignty over creation, not that He Himself is a part of creation.  In the Old Testament, the first-born had certain rights and a certain status, such as preeminence, a double share of the inheritance, the right of the priesthood, and supremacy.  And it can be distinctly seen from Genesis 49:3 that the meaning "priority of birth" or in "in time" has been overshadowed and even sometimes lost to the implication of the term meaning "supremacy" or "preeminence."  In other words, one does not have to have been "born first" to be called "first-born" because the term's primary meaning came to be "preeminence" and "supremacy," sometimes with nothing to do about birth."

When Paul calls Jesus the first-born, He is saying that Jesus has all the rights of the first-born and that He has the first-born status of supremacy and preeminence.  When Paul adds that He is the first-born of all creation, He is merely specifying what Christ's preeminence (i.e., His first-born status) applies to -- namely, all creation.

Furthermore, this passage clearly teaches Christ's deity.  Since the Uncreated Creator alone created all things (Isaiah 44:24; Hebrews 3:4), and Colossians tells us that Christ is the Creator, we can then conclude that Jesus is the Uncreated Creator.

Other Bible scholars have demonstrated that the word "born" does not mean to be "created" when we look at it from Jesus' title "Son of God."  Don't misconstrue this to mean that Jesus Christ must have come into existence at some point and that He is less than God, thinking that He is the Son of God, and not God, in just the same way that a human son comes into existence after their human father.  This might sound plausible at first, but upon proper observation it becomes clear that this cannot be the case. The Bible is very clear in defining the title Son of God" to mean that Jesus is of the same nature as God, just like a child is of the same nature as their parent.  And if Jesus Christ has God's nature, then He is, by definition, God, and therefore without a beginning.

Here some pertinent questions for you JW's to ponder on as to the nature of our Lord Jesus Christ:

"You are my witnesses, says the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that you may know and believe  me, and understand that I am He: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after Me.  I, even I, am the LORD; and beside Me there is no saviour," (Isaiah 43:10,11).

Is God the Saviour of the world?

If you study this verse I quoted above objectively, you will discover the following:
 
There always has been and always will be only one true God.

There is no Saviour of the world except for this one true God.

Therefore, the Saviour of the world must be the one true God.

This leads to another question:

Is Jesus the Saviour of the world?

I do not think that anyone who has read the New Testament would dispute this.  Even your favourite version of the Bible refers to Jesus as the Saviour: "and of the Saviour of us, Christ Jesus" --Titus 2:13.

Therefore, since:

The one true God is the only Saviour of the world (Isaiah 43:10,11), and

Jesus is the Saviour of the world (Titus 2:13; 2 Peter 1:1),

Jesus must therefore be the one true God.

To deny that Jesus is the one true God, one would either have to deny that Jesus is the Saviour, or say that God is lying to us in Isaiah 43:11.  Neither alternative fits with Scripture.

Does Titus 2:13 teach that Jesus is God our Saviour?

In Titus 2:13 it states the following:

"Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify to Himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works."

Paul is here through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit stating clearly that it is Jesus who is our great God and Saviour unless you are disputing this fact.

Titus 2:13

" while we wait for the happy hope and glorious manifestation of the great God AND of our saviour, Jesus Christ" ! 2 distinct persons !!



Paul Already explains: " peace from God the Father AND Christ Jesus our saviour" Titus 1:4

The great God is d person Jesus refer to as " MY GOD" !!! " MY GOD" ! " MY GOD" and " YOUR GOD" - JOHN 20:17

CANTICLES:


Titus 2:13

" while we wait for the happy hope and glorious manifestation of the great God AND of our saviour, Jesus Christ" ! 2 distinct persons !!



Paul Already explains: " peace from God the Father AND Christ Jesus our saviour" Titus 1:4

The great God is d person Jesus refer to as " MY GOD" !!! " MY GOD" ! " MY GOD" and " YOUR GOD" - JOHN 20:17

The moment you understand the meaning of the holy Trinity would be the time to contribute sensibly on this topic.