PastorKun:


When Jesus was ascending, did he promise us a completed book(bible) or the holy spirit for guidance?

OLAADEGBU:

I remember giving you the answer to your question sometime ago, which you either read or pretended ignorant. Go back to the answer I gave you.

OLAADEGBU:


Below is a link for your perusal as to the inaccuracies of the book of Enoch and why it cannot be considered to be God breathed. When you are done reading this I will then give you the measuring stick by which the inspired Word of God is ascertained.

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Wolves/book_of_enoch.htm

OLAADEGBU:


Yes. Oya, answer my kweshun.

OLAADEGBU:


The Holy Spirit guides according to the revealed Word of God not contrary.

OLAADEGBU:


Do you believe that humans were as tall as 450 feet as the book of Enoch claims?

PastorAIO:


I've read a little, I'll still read the rest when I have more time. It rebuts Olaadegbu's hero with ease, it seems. Actually I was aware of the sheer ignorance in Ola's link but my approach is rather to deal with what Ola himself says rather than deal with the link. So I won't comment until Ola himself answers my opening questions to him.
Thanks for the link though.

PastorKun:


This doesn't answer my question! Are you limiting the holy spirit to a book Even the bible tells us in John 21:25 that the whole world cannot contain the books to be written about Jesus exploits on earth if they are all to be written.

OLAADEGBU:


The ones that were written contain one single continuous thread from Genesis to Revelation and confirms that the ultimate author is God who used holy men to pen down His mind to mankind.

OLAADEGBU:


The ones that were written contain one single continuous thread from Genesis to Revelation and confirms that the ultimate author is God who used holy men to pen down His mind to mankind.

PastorAIO:



I don't recall you ever answering anything and anyway it is totally besides the point because you have made a promise that when I'm done reading your inane link you would tell me something. What you claim you told me before I read the inane link has no bearing.

If you cannot answer just say so and I'll know that you talk out of your backside without any proof of what you are saying..... oh, hang on. I knew that already.


EDIT: And I asked about 3 different questions. Which one is it that you claim you've answered already? Can you answer the other 2?

The councils followed something similar to the following principles to determine whether a New Testament book was truly inspired by the Holy Spirit: 1) Was the author an apostle or have a close connection with an apostle? 2) Is the book being accepted by the body of Christ at large? 3) Did the book contain consistency of doctrine and orthodox teaching? 4) Did the book bear evidence of high moral and spiritual values that would reflect a work of the Holy Spirit? Again, it is crucial to remember that the church did not determine the canon. No early church council decided on the canon. It was God, and God alone, who determined which books belonged in the Bible. It was simply a matter of God’s imparting to His followers what He had already decided. The human process of collecting the books of the Bible was flawed, but God, in His sovereignty, and despite our ignorance and stubbornness, brought the early church to the recognition of the books He had inspired.

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/canon-Bible.html#ixzz3JH70lQtW

PastorAIO:


No I don't think a donkey talked, neither do I think a snake talked, and I do not think that 450feet giants walked the earth either. I take these stories allegorically not literally.

Now what is your basis for refusing to believe that giants existed? Is it because of lack of archaeological evidence? Is it because of any reason that you have failed to equally apply to your belief in talking snakes?

... just a few more questions for you to flee from answering. Don't pee on yourself trying to answer, it's okay, I'm not actually expecting a response.

dolphinheart:


Pls I'm not trying to detail the thread , but part of what the op said caught my attention

So can these question be added to the growing list of questions:
How do we know elijah and enoch went to heaven . And which heaven are you referring to . ?

TheIndustrialist:


A nice question indeed.


I can decide to believe that but I have no empirical proof for my belief rather than belief being belief. I can also decide to ask you if you believe that the Enoch in question actually existed or even prophesied ( of which from implication and deduction, you believe he prophesied but that doesn't authenticate the entire book of Enoch) ?

TheIndustrialist:


If belief of the books of the bible is belief and not knowledge,how then do you authenticate the entire scriptures ? What if Genesis was not a part of the present bible you have chosen to authenticate ?
The thing is that, what is becomes valid as it is being believed in. If you were born into a Muslim family,you would have being a Muslim dude advocating for the authenticity of the Qu'ran by now.

Back to your question, I strongly suggest that you give plain answers to the questions that you have been asked .

Your choice of exalting one scripture over another does not make it true. If the book of Acts was the book of Enoch, you would not have also believed in it because you were not programmed to accept such a book by what you believe and not what you know. If you can give us a validity of your claims then we should be able and willing to go with your line of belief. No time for subjectivity ... objectivity is the best approach to a thread like this.


I brought up that link so that we could all see points from two sides and not just one.


NOTE : I believe in the existence of those giants if I find the book of Enoch authentic.

What Made a Book "Scripture"?

At first, the churches had no need to define what made a book special and equal to the Old Testament Scriptures. If the letter came from Paul or Peter, that was sufficient. However, it was not long before others began writing additional letters and gospels either to fill the gaps or to propagate their own ideas. Some tests became necessary, and during the first 200 years, five tests were used at various times.

• Apostolic—does it come from an apostle?

The first Christians asked, "Was it written by an apostle or under the direction of an apostle?" They expected this just as the Jews had expected theirs to be underwritten by the prophets. Paul was insistent that his readers should be reassured that the letters they received actually came from his pen (e.g., 2 Thessalonians 3:17).

• Authentic—does it have the ring of truth?

The authoritative voice of the prophets, "This is what the Lord says," is matched by the apostles' claim to write not the words of men but the words of God (1 Thessalonians 2:13). It was the internal witness of the texts themselves that was strong evidence of canonicity.

• Ancient—has it been used from the earliest times?

Most of the false writings were rejected simply because they were too new to be apostolic. Early in the fourth century, Athanasius listed the New Testament canon as we know it today and claimed that these were the books “received by us through tradition as belonging to the Canon.”¹⁶

• Accepted—are most of the churches using it?

Since, as we have seen, it took time for letters to circulate among the churches, it is all the more significant that 23 of the 27 books were almost universally accepted well before the middle of the second century.

When tradition carries the weight of the overwhelming majority of churches throughout the widely scattered Christian communities across the vast Roman Empire, with no one church controlling the beliefs of all the others, it has to be taken seriously.

• Accurate—does it conform to the orthodox teaching of the churches?

There was widespread agreement among the churches across the empire as to the content of the Christian message. Irenaeus asked the question whether a particular writing was consistent with what the churches taught.¹⁷ This is what ruled out so much of the heretical material immediately.

https://answersingenesis.org/the-word-of-god/why-66-books/

frosbel:
Trying to engage OLAADEGBU in a constructive debate is pointless. I should know, I was once like him, a preprogrammed robot spouting out one rigid line of argument with no recourse to personal opinion, logic or reason.

It is only when OLAADEGBU leaves his cult with the one man at the Helm who doubles as their pastor and brain , that his senses may return , enabling him to see the wood from the trees.

OLAADEGBU:


Because God said it. The heaven they went is the third heaven.

OLAADEGBU:


Let me give you excerpts from the thread where the answers were posted.

OLAADEGBU:

Where you have a problem is that God said it. If God said it and I believe it that settles it for me. Did God say human beings were 450 feet?

dolphinheart:


What is the third heaven ?
Pls also show us bible quotes that said enoch and elijah went to the third heaven ?

OLAADEGBU:

We should treat the Book of Enoch (and the other books like it) in the same manner we do the other Apocryphal writings. Some of what the Apocrypha says is true and correct, but at the same time, much of it is false and historically inaccurate. If you read these books, you have to treat them as interesting but fallible historical documents, not as the inspired, authoritative Word of God.

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/book-of-Enoch.html#ixzz3M3dtnQUq

PastorAIO:


My opinion of you is so low that I honestly truly believe that no such thread exists and you've just gone and dug that up from your favourite website and then you've lied, because of course you're nothing but a vile unrepentant liar.

PastorAIO:


When did God say it, and did you hear him say it? Why are you so brave to even Lie on God's head?

"Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet and turn again and rend you" (Matthew 7:6).

OLAADEGBU:


Don't expect church tradition to give you the answer to that. Read and study your Bible.

dolphinheart:


Sir, I'm expecting you to give the answer to the question , u urself that made statements saying that elijah and enoch went to the third heaven . As an intelligent person, I feel you must have biblical facts before you made the statement , therefore I asked
1. What is the third heaven ?

dolphinheart:


2. What prove do you have that enoch and elijah went to the third heaven .?

ooman:


Who determines which particular book is god inspired and which is fallible?

OLAADEGBU:


If I tell you will you then become a believer in Christ?

OLAADEGBU:


Your opinion of me is worthless as long as you continue to disdain, doubt, deny and disobey the God breathed word of God in favour of faulty human words and traditions. If you have low opinion of the Word of God why should I be surprised if your opinion of Christians is low since you care less for the truth? To confirm to all that you are either a bad student of the bible or an enemy of truth seeking to denigrate the Word of God, I have taken the pain to fish out the following threads where I either gave clues or was plain as to the criteria used in measuring Scriptures. You can either eat your humble pie or wallow in shame knowing that you've been shown to be a fake "PASTOR".

https://www.nairaland.com/1795370/how-does-translation-process-impact (4th to the last post on the front page)

https://www.nairaland.com/1987455/how-when-canon-bible-put

https://www.nairaland.com/1988852/how-know-which-books-belong



Do you even have the ear or heart to receive it when God says it? It is only those who are ardent truth seekers that will seek God with their whole heart and find Him. The more reason our Lord Jesus gave the following advise when dealing with wolves like you:

You haven't answered my question. What are the criteria for including or excluding books? For instance the Book of Enoch. Please why isn't it in your bible since it was quoted in Jude and in 2Peter? What is your opinion of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church? Is their bible also the inerrant word of God or is it only the KJV?

ooman:


I might

PastorAIO:


The discussion is not about the value of my opinion. My opinion is my opinion and that opinion remains unchanged since you persist in untruths.

Let me list the questions for you again:



1)What are the criteria that we can apply to any text to find out if it is God breathed or not?

2)What does the book of Enoch say that is historically inaccurate?

3)How do you know that Enoch is historically inaccurate and would you apply that criteria to other books in the bible?


Now, you lying little vermin, where did you answer any of these questions. The only thread that I was on of those links that you put up is the first one and you didn't answer any question I asked you then. In fact this was my last comment at the end of the page:


https://www.nairaland.com/1795370/how-does-translation-process-impact#24702445


Question: Why did I say 'you haven't answered my question'?
Answer: Because you did not answer my question.

Question: So why do you claim to have answered my question?
Answer: Because you are a lying vermin.

Question: Do you just stop short at being a lying vermin?
Answer: No, you continue to wallow in all manner of other depravities like claiming that your personal opinions are God's word and hiding behind the word christian to disseminate all manner of contemptible hate speech.

I might be a fake pastor, but you are a fake christian.



Your post is this one: https://www.nairaland.com/1795370/how-does-translation-process-impact#24695578
You said:' to start with ....' You didn't even continue. Why for example would a book like the The sayings of Hosai not be in the canon?

OLAADEGBU:


See my last post to theIndustrialist above and tell me what you think.

PastorAIO:


The discussion is not about the value of my opinion. My opinion is my opinion and that opinion remains unchanged since you persist in untruths.

Let me list the questions for you again:



1)What are the criteria that we can apply to any text to find out if it is God breathed or not?

2)What does the book of Enoch say that is historically inaccurate?

3)How do you know that Enoch is historically inaccurate and would you apply that criteria to other books in the bible?


Now, you lying little vermin, where did you answer any of these questions. The only thread that I was on of those links that you put up is the first one and you didn't answer any question I asked you then. In fact this was my last comment at the end of the page:


https://www.nairaland.com/1795370/how-does-translation-process-impact#24702445


Question: Why did I say 'you haven't answered my question'?
Answer: Because you did not answer my question.

Question: So why do you claim to have answered my question?
Answer: Because you are a lying vermin.

Question: Do you just stop short at being a lying vermin?
Answer: No, you continue to wallow in all manner of other depravities like claiming that your personal opinions are God's word and hiding behind the word christian to disseminate all manner of contemptible hate speech.

I might be a fake pastor, but you are a fake christian.



Your post is this one: https://www.nairaland.com/1795370/how-does-translation-process-impact#24695578
You said:' to start with ....' You didn't even continue. Why for example would a book like the The sayings of Hosai not be in the canon?

OLAADEGBU:


The bolded above in brackets accurately represents my position.



If you knew how tall 450 feet is you will not say that it could be accurate. Believing in such spurious myth puts you in the same category with Muslims who believe that Adam was 90 feet tall. And those pictures in the link you suggested were photoshopped, there are no such skeleton exhumed, it is all fake.

Below is a link to the answer you have all been waiting for. I'll post a short excerpt that addresses your questions.



My question remains unanswered. Who wrote the book of Enoch?