Scholar8200:

Going around in circles? James was telling a couple of brethren that temptation should not be yielded to else sin comes in and with sin death?

Lemme come from a diff angle.

Who saves from the penalty of sin? Man or God?

Who saves from the Power of sin? Man or God?

Who saves from the presence of sin?(glorification) Man or God?

ABDULADINO:
Lemme come from a diff angle.

1.Who saves from the penalty of sin? Man or God?

2.Who saves from the Power of sin? Man or God?

3.Who saves from the presence of sin?(glorification) Man or God?

1. God made the Provision in Christ for our salvation but we must appropriate that Provision by repentance and faith Mark 1:15, Acts 3:19, Acts 2:38

2. God made Provision for us in Christ, by the Power of the Spirit, but we must appropriate that also by faith:

For if you live according to [the dictates of] the flesh, you will surely die. But if through the power of the [Holy] Spirit you are [habitually] putting to death (making extinct, deadening) the [evil] deeds prompted by the body, you shall [really and genuinely] live forever.
Romans 8:13

12 Let not sin therefore rule as king in your mortal (short-lived, perishable) bodies, to make you yield to its cravings and be subject to its lusts and evil passions.
13 Do not continue offering or yielding your bodily members [and [a]faculties] to sin as instruments (tools) of wickedness. But offer and yield yourselves to God as though you have been raised from the dead to [perpetual] life, and your bodily members [and [b]faculties] to God, presenting them as implements of righteousness. Romans 6:12,13

The highlighted establishes a role being played by both Parties to the Covenant.

3. Explain further! Temptations to yield to sin continue till we die. Temptation is not sin but yielding to temptation is sin and leads to death.

Are we still on this? Nawa oo....

Ok lemme say dis... SALVATION once gained can never be lost. You don't lose your Salvation because you sin.... Datz why Paul still addressed the Church of Corinth ( the most carnal church ) as the bride of CHRIST.

There are different levels of commitment among Believers... We have mature and baby Christians. A carnal Christian doesn't lose his Salvation cos he sin. Our Salvation is eternal, its sealed by the Holy Spirit until Rapture. It is only lost by denouncing CHRIST which is impossible, its very rare. Some Christians might not be as committed as they were before, but that doesn't mean they have lost faith in CHRIST. Some people might say these Christians have back-slidden but their faith in CHRIST is still there.

@An2elect2 , my sister i think you don't have to argue with @Vook again. Two of you will never agree. You are a GRACE Believer like me and he is a WORKS believer. If he believes its his Works dat saves him, all well and good. Let Him keep to his belief. On the last day He will know the Truth. GRACE is the person of Jesus.

What is the meaning of GRACE? UNMERITED FAVOUR...

Plz lets stop this argument..... the WORKS Believers will never accept our message of GRACE... and we cant accept theirs too.

ABDULADINO:
Lemme come from a diff angle.

Who saves from the penalty of sin? Man or God?

Who saves from the Power of sin? Man or God?

Who saves from the presence of sin?(glorification) Man or God?

Acts 2:40 King James Version (KJV)

40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

Peter is not mistaken, he is telling his countrymen to SEIZE the opportunity granted. God does not repent nor believe for man

ABDULADINO:
Like i said already addressed. I quoted Paul earlier about a young man inbreeding yet Paul was confident his spirit will be saved. You are going around in circles really. IS THE SCRIPTURE HERE TALKING ABOUT SALVATION?

I have been meditating on this particular verse. Let's look at it

1 Corinthians 5:4-5 King James Version (KJV)
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

I had indicated that Paul employed PROBABILIY and not CERTAINTY, but this is not apparent from some translations.

New thoughts;
Regardless of the version you use, there is a clear relationship in v5 between 'delivering such to Satan for destruction of the flesh' and 'the spirit may be saved'

Delivering causes salvation. If this man was a believer whose salvation could not be lost, his spirit would be saved on the day of the Lord Jesus regardless of whether they handed him to the devil or not.

Why then is this subsequent (after he had believed and fallen) act of handing him over associated with his salvation?

We don't have to agree on whether salvation can be lost or not but we can laying our biases and doctrinal shades derive all the truth communicated in this verse.


Cc Ayoku777, Scholar8200,5solas

sportsmaster:
who is still arguing again on this thread,I thought i cleared the arguements

jiggaz:
Are we still on this? Nawa oo....

Ok lemme say dis... SALVATION once gained can never be lost. You don't lose your Salvation because you sin.... Datz why Paul still addressed the Church of Corinth ( the most carnal church ) as the bride of CHRIST.

There are different levels of commitment among Believers... We have mature and baby Christians. A carnal Christian doesn't lose his Salvation cos he sin. Our Salvation is eternal, its sealed by the Holy Spirit until Rapture. It is only lost by denouncing CHRIST which is impossible, its very rare. Some Christians might not be as committed as they were before, but that doesn't mean they have lost faith in CHRIST. Some people might say these Christians have back-slidden but their faith in CHRIST is still there.

@An2elect2 , my sister i think you don't have to argue with @Vook again. Two of you will never agree. You are a GRACE Believer like me and he is a WORKS believer. If he believes its his Works dat saves him, all well and good. Let Him keep to his belief. On the last day He will know the Truth. GRACE is the person of Jesus.

What is the meaning of GRACE? UNMERITED FAVOUR...

Plz lets stop this argument..... the WORKS Believers will never accept our message of GRACE... and we cant accept theirs too.

None of the sheep of Christ will be lost. God cannot lie.

vooks is a trouble maker, i am used to his posts.

Sometimes i think regeneration goes a long way in helping us understand sound biblical truths.

All i see here, are proud men who want to have a sense of control in 'their salvation'. They are okay with another Jesus that only makes man savable and not THE ONE that has come to save men who are dead in trespasses.

vooks:


Acts 2:40 King James Version (KJV)

40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

Peter is not mistaken, he is telling his countrymen to SEIZE the opportunity granted. God does not repent nor believe for man

Lol in other words Man saves himself from sin. Ok o.

Scholar8200:


1. God made the Provision in Christ for our salvation but we must appropriate that Provision by repentance and faith Mark 1:15, Acts 3:19, Acts 2:38

2. God made Provision for us in Christ, by the Power of the Spirit, but we must appropriate that also by faith:

For if you live according to [the dictates of] the flesh, you will surely die. But if through the power of the [Holy] Spirit you are [habitually] putting to death (making extinct, deadening) the [evil] deeds prompted by the body, you shall [really and genuinely] live forever.
Romans 8:13

12 Let not sin therefore rule as king in your mortal (short-lived, perishable) bodies, to make you yield to its cravings and be subject to its lusts and evil passions.
13 Do not continue offering or yielding your bodily members [and [a]faculties] to sin as instruments (tools) of wickedness. But offer and yield yourselves to God as though you have been raised from the dead to [perpetual] life, and your bodily members [and [b]faculties] to God, presenting them as implements of righteousness. Romans 6:12,13

The highlighted establishes a role being played by both Parties to the Covenant.

3. Explain further! Temptations to yield to sin continue till we die. Temptation is not sin but yielding to temptation is sin and leads to death.

Lol@ all these irrelevant long epistles. Who saves from SIN? Man or God? There is no middle ground here.

ABDULADINO:
Lol in other words Man saves himself from sin. Ok o.

ABDULADINO:
Lol@ all these irrelevant long epistles. Who saves from SIN? Man or God? There is no middle ground here.

The force of this question just hit me, it is enough to conclude the discussion. Waiting for answers.

5solas:

The force of this question just hit me, it is enough to conclude the discussion. Waiting for answers.

Lol. My brother trust these guys to be evasive. There is no salvation in any other name save Jesus. Salvation is safety. You can't be saved and not stay safe.

I have been meditating on this particular verse. Let's look at it

1 Corinthians 5:4-5 King James Version (KJV)
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

I had indicated that Paul employed PROBABILIY and not CERTAINTY, but this is not apparent from some translations.

New thoughts;
Regardless of the version you use, there is a clear relationship in v5 between 'delivering such to Satan for destruction of the flesh' and 'the spirit may be saved'

Delivering causes salvation. If this man was a believer whose salvation could not be lost, his spirit would be saved on the day of the Lord Jesus regardless of whether they handed him to the devil or not.

Why then is this subsequent (after he had believed and fallen) act of handing him over associated with his salvation?

We don't have to agree on whether salvation can be lost or not but we can laying our biases and doctrinal shades derive all the truth communicated in this verse.


Cc Ayoku777, Scholar8200,5solas

ABDULADINO:
Lol@ all these irrelevant long epistles. Who saves from SIN? Man or God? There is no middle ground here.

There was a time folks came to Jesus with a yes or no question on tribute but He saw their motive hence answered with wisdom. Your yes or no question bears semblance with the intention of those folks!
However, as regards your question,If I say:
God, you will say then man has no part
Man, you will say that's law of works
But if you will appreciate why it is called NEW COVENANT, you will understand the role of mutual action in getting saved and remaining saved.
If man has no part then it's no longer a covenant

vooks:
I have been meditating on this particular verse. Let's look at it

1 Corinthians 5:4-5 King James Version (KJV)
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

I had indicated that Paul employed PROBABILIY and not CERTAINTY, but this is not apparent from some translations.

New thoughts;
Regardless of the version you use, there is a clear relationship in v5 between 'delivering such to Satan for destruction of the flesh' and 'the spirit may be saved'

Delivering causes salvation. If this man was a believer whose salvation could not be lost, his spirit would be saved on the day of the Lord Jesus regardless of whether they handed him to the devil or not.

Why then is this subsequent (after he had believed and fallen) act of handing him over associated with his salvation?

We don't have to agree on whether salvation can be lost or not but we can laying our biases and doctrinal shades derive all the truth communicated in this verse.


Cc Ayoku777, Scholar8200,5solas

I believe it is based on probability; if you consider some on which a similar discipline was meted for example Hymenaeus and Alexander:

1 Timothy 1:19b,20
19 Holding fast to faith ([c]that leaning of the entire human personality on God in absolute trust and confidence) and having a good (clear) conscience. By rejecting and thrusting from them [their conscience], some individuals have made shipwreck of their faith.
20 Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have delivered to Satan in order that they may be disciplined [by punishment and learn] not to blaspheme.


But did they learn from their sufferings and change their ways? NO! And subsequently, they were to be avoided:

2 Timothy 2:16-18
16 But avoid all empty (vain, useless, idle) talk, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness.
17 And their teaching [will devour; it] will eat its way like cancer or spread like gangrene. So it is with Hymenaeus and Philetus,
18 Who have missed the mark and swerved from the truth by arguing that the resurrection has already taken place. They are undermining the faith of some.


Meaning such disciplines are meted out with the hope that such an one repents but if they persist...

Scholar8200:
There was a time folks came to Jesus with a yes or no question on tribute but He saw their motive hence answered with wisdom. Your yes or no question bears semblance with the intention of those folks!

My brother don't put yourself into the error that you are better than anyone here. You are not Jesus. He is the wisdom and the power of God and we all drink from that living water and cistern. Even a babe in christ and a mature believer are all equals before Him. I believe you are a christian but you are a critic of the eternal security of a believer and this is where we disagree.

However, as regards your question,If I say:
God, you will say then man has no part
Man, you will say that's law of works
But if you will appreciate why it is called NEW COVENANT, you will understand the role of mutual action in getting saved and remaining saved.
If man has no part then it's no longer a covenant

Man has no role to play in the new covenant. It is between God and Christ.Christ is the mediator of the new covenant that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance. Christ sacrifice is once and for all.

And the new covenant is not by the effort of man for he says that He himself will PUT the laws in our hearts and write them in our minds and the sins and lawless acts HE will remember no more.

So you cannot lose salvation because of sin, whether past, present and future.Christ forgives sins in advance that is not to say we are advocating licentious living here. It is scriptures. Our sin in the new covenant do not separate us from God. God has already judged sin in the flesh of His Son...so we are justified.
( just as if i have never sinned) by grace.

James makes it plain that there is no small or big sin( James 2:10-11). So it is not about fornication or any thing imaginable your mind can list or conceive. The scripture says what it means and means what it says. It is either Jesus is the saviour of ALL or not your saviour at all.

ABDULADINO:
My brother don't put yourself into the error that you are better than anyone here. You are not Jesus. He is the wisdom and the power of God and we all drink from that living water and cistern. Even a babe in christ and a mature believer are all equals before Him. I believe you are a christian but you are a critic of the eternal security of a believer and this is where we disagree.

Man has no role to play in the new covenant. It is between God and Christ.Christ is the mediator of the new covenant that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance. Christ sacrifice is once and for all.

Man has to repent and believe the Gospel and afterwards cleave to the Lord with purpose of heart and continue in the faith!

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Who, when he came, and had seen the grace of God, was glad, and exhorted them all, that with purpose of heart they would cleave unto the Lord.

Acts 2:38 and Acts 14:22, Acts 11:23

And the new covenant is not by the effort of man for he says that He himself will PUT the laws in our hearts and write them in our minds and the sins and lawless acts HE will remember no more.

So you cannot lose salvation because of sin, whether past, present and future.Christ forgives sins in advance that is not to say we are advocating licentious living here. It is scriptures. Our sin in the new covenant do not separate us from God. God has already judged sin in the flesh of His Son...so we are justified.
( just as if i have never sinned) by grace.

James makes it plain that there is no small or big sin( James 2:10-11). So it is not about fornication or any thing imaginable your mind can list or conceive. The scripture says what it means and means what it says. It is either Jesus is the saviour of ALL or not your saviour at all.

Then explain James 1:15,16
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: [size=13pt]and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death[/size]. 16 [size=13pt]Do not err, my beloved brethren[/size].

Why then does the devil tempt believers to sin if it takes nothing away from them whatsoever? Note that he tempts to sin!

And why would Peter exhort to be sober and vigilant against the adversary who must be resisted?
Or why would John admonish that :
1 John 5:18
18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
Of course it's a work of faith done in dependence on the Spirit through Whom we mortify the flesh but He wont do it sans our active cooperation in faith and willingness!

Scholar8200:
Man has to repent and believe the Gospel and afterwards cleave to the Lord with purpose of heart and continue in the faith!

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

The audience were unbelievers not believers.

confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Who, when he came, and had seen the grace of God, was glad, and exhorted them all, that with purpose of heart they would cleave unto the Lord.

Acts 2:38 and Acts 14:22, Acts 11:23

God preserves the elect by His grace and integrity in Jesus Christ but does not guarantee their perseverance in holiness and righteousness. You can be saved without works. Conversion and fruitbearing by God's elect vary from none to much, from lot to Abraham from demas to Paul. Some of the elect even ministers would have their works burned up but they would be saved( 1 cor 3:15).

Then explain James 1:15,16
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: [size=13pt]and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death[/size]. 16 [size=13pt]Do not err, my beloved brethren[/size].

Read from verse 12..James is talking about perseverance. And Paul has balanced it that you can be saved without works. Salvation is a free gift of God without works. ( Rom 3:24). God will not share His glory with another and salvation by works puts Him in a position of debt to sinners which He is not at all( Romans 4:1-.

Why then does the devil tempt believers to sin if it takes nothing away from them whatsoever? Note that he tempts to sin!

The devil is always in the business of tempting from time immemorial. But there is one he tempted who knew no sin.The man Jesus Christ became sin for us that we might the righteousness of God in Christ. Our basis for eternal security is the faithfulness and power of God and perpetual intercession of Jesus Christ( Romans 5:10, 8:34.

1 cor 1:8-9..He will keep you strong to the end,so that you will be blameless on the day of our lord Jesus Christ..emphasis on "HE"

And why would Peter exhort to be sober and vigilant against the adversary who must be resisted?
Or why would John admonish that :
1 John 5:18
18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
Of course it's a work of faith done in dependence on the Spirit through Whom we mortify the flesh but He wont do it sans our active cooperation in faith and willingness!

You have answered yourself that it is indeed a work of faith by depending on the Holy Spirit which we are sealed until the day of redemption. If a child of God plays with sin, he grieves and quench the witness of the Holy Spirit but that doesn't mean the Holy Spirit departed. He is still in there waiting for the prodigal son to come to himself. The prodigal son realise his mistakes..he never even reached the father before the father ran to him from a distance. And that is why "once saved always saved" is used because it is applied to the death and ressurection of Jesus Christ.Read John 19:30, Heb 9:12).

Once saved is applied to the will of God in election, the death of Christ in justification or the cleansing of the Spirit in regeneration.

Scholar8200:
I believe it is based on probability; if you consider some on which a similar discipline was meted for example Hymenaeus and Alexander:

1 Timothy 1:19b,20
19 Holding fast to faith ([c]that leaning of the entire human personality on God in absolute trust and confidence) and having a good (clear) conscience. By rejecting and thrusting from them [their conscience], some individuals have made shipwreck of their faith.
20 Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have delivered to Satan in order that they may be disciplined [by punishment and learn] not to blaspheme.


But did they learn from their sufferings and change their ways? NO! And subsequently, they were to be avoided:

2 Timothy 2:16-18
16 But avoid all empty (vain, useless, idle) talk, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness.
17 And their teaching [will devour; it] will eat its way like cancer or spread like gangrene. So it is with Hymenaeus and Philetus,
18 Who have missed the mark and swerved from the truth by arguing that the resurrection has already taken place. They are undermining the faith of some.


Meaning such disciplines are meted out with the hope that such an one repents but if they persist...

Excellent.
This implies the disciplining exercise is supposed to procure life. Could we say this if these guys ALREADY had eternal life? If they already they possess eternal life, what value does the punishment add?

ABDULADINO:
The audience were unbelievers not believers.
[b]God preserves the elect by His grace and integrity in Jesus Christ [/b]but does not guarantee their perseverance in holiness and righteousness. You can be saved without works. Conversion and fruitbearing by God's elect vary from none to much, from lot to Abraham from demas to Paul. Some of the elect even ministers would have their works burned up but they would be saved( 1 cor 3:15).

You are deep on semantics.
1. Explain exactly what God preserves means
2. Explain the PURPOSE of this preservation

vooks:


Excellent.
This implies the disciplining exercise is supposed to procure life. Could we say this if these guys ALREADY had eternal life? If they already they possess eternal life, what value does the punishment add?

Exactly!

ABDULADINO:
The audience were unbelievers not believers.

I know! But they had a role to play in appropriating God's provision!

God preserves the elect by His grace and integrity in Jesus Christ but does not guarantee their perseverance in holiness and righteousness. You can be saved without works. Conversion and fruitbearing by God's elect vary from none to much, from lot to Abraham from demas to Paul. Some of the elect even ministers would have their works burned up but they would be saved( 1 cor 3:15).

Read again:
confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Who, when he came, and had seen the grace of God, was glad, and exhorted them all, that with purpose of heart they would cleave unto the Lord.
True no one can pluck them from His Hands but they also must cleave to Him with determination meaning if they do not cleave, they will fall!

Read from verse 12..James is talking about perseverance. And Paul has balanced it that you can be saved without works. Salvation is a free gift of God without works. ( Rom 3:24). God will not share His glory with another and salvation by works puts Him in a position of debt to sinners which He is not at all( Romans 4:1-.

Yes we are saved without works but after we are thus saved, our works prove the existence or not of the faith by which we are saved:
Faith works by love Galatians 5:22,23 and love is what you get when you walk in the Spirit. Besides James 1:12-16 talks about the need for Perseverance part of which involves victory over temptation because yielding thereto leads to sin which results in death!

The devil is always in the business of tempting from time immemorial. But there is one he tempted who knew no sin.The man Jesus Christ became sin for us that we might the righteousness of God in Christ. Our basis for eternal security is the faithfulness and power of God and perpetual intercession of Jesus Christ( Romans 5:10, 8:34.

And our purpose of heart to cleave to Him and hold fast and endure to the end!

1 cor 1:8-9..He will keep you strong to the end,so that you will be blameless on the day of our lord Jesus Christ..emphasis on "HE"

Yes HE does but not against a purpose of heart to cleave to Him while resisting temptation, denying the flesh, bearing the cross enduring trials and depending on Him for grace to," Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord"Hebrews 12:14

You have answered yourself that it is indeed a work of faith by depending on the Holy Spirit which we are sealed until the day of redemption. If a child of God plays with sin, he grieves and quench the witness of the Holy Spirit but that doesn't mean the Holy Spirit departed. He is still in there waiting for the prodigal son to come to himself. The prodigal son realise his mistakes..he never even reached the father before the father ran to him from a distance. And that is why "once saved always saved" is used because it is applied to the death and ressurection of Jesus Christ.Read John 19:30, Heb 9:12).

But the prodigal son had to recall himself, humble himself and, though hungry, tired and tattered,take the long journey back home! If he had not swallowed his pride, he will perish in the far country,outside his Father's house where the mansions are!

vooks:


You are deep on semantics.
1. Explain exactly what God preserves means
2. Explain the PURPOSE of this preservation

Read Romans 8 : 28-29.

Scholar8200:
I know! But they had a role to play in appropriating God's provision!

No role. They were pricked in their heart. It is the work of the Holy Spirit to convict sinners and bring them to repentance.Man is to receive. Man has no role in the gift of salvation. He is just to believe and accept it.

Read again:
confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Read what?

Who, when he came, and had seen the grace of God, was glad, and exhorted them all, that with purpose of heart they would cleave unto the Lord.
True no one can pluck them from His Hands but they also must cleave to Him with determination meaning if they do not cleave, they will fall!

Fall in to what?

Yes we are saved without works but after we are thus saved, our works prove the existence or not of the faith by which we are saved:
Faith works by love Galatians 5:22,23 and love is what you get when you walk in the Spirit. Besides James 1:12-16 talks about the need for Perseverance part of which involves victory over temptation because yielding thereto leads to sin which results in death!

Which death actually?

And our purpose of heart to cleave to Him and hold fast and endure to the end!

Endure what and to what end? Are you teaching that you can lose salvation by sinning after your free will decision got salvation started? Lol. True arminianism from Jacobus arminius.Smh! Just like your father.

Yes HE does but not against a purpose of heart to cleave to Him while resisting temptation, denying the flesh, bearing the cross enduring trials and depending on Him for grace to," Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord"Hebrews 12:14

All of these are works. They have no role to play in salvation. Holiness is not by the effort of man. It is a gift at new birth.

But the prodigal son had to recall himself, humble himself and, though hungry, tired and tattered,take the long journey back home! If he had not swallowed his pride, he will perish in the far country,outside his Father's house where the mansions are!

The prodigal son still remained a SON..he was never dis inherited. That is what you arminians fail to SEE.

ABDULADINO:
No role. They were pricked in their heart. It is the work of the Holy Spirit to convict sinners and bring them to repentance.Man is to receive. Man has no role in the gift of salvation. He is just to believe and accept it.

He believes and accepts and he must continue in that faith with the evidence of the fruits of love, holiness else he becomes a reprobate 2 Corinth 13:5

Fall in to what?

sin

Which death actually?

I am sure you are not mistaking the death James mentioned to be the physical one; that lives us with one option!

Endure what and to what end?

Bro read your Bible ? I didnt write those did i?

12 And the love of [f]the great body of people will grow cold because of the multiplied lawlessness and iniquity,
13 But he who endures to the end will be saved.
Matthew 24:12,13

Endures and cleaves to the Lord in spite of the declension (per the highlighted) of some," And he... overcomes (is victorious) and ... obeys My commands to the [very] end [doing the works that please Me], I will give him authority and power over the nations;
Revelations 2:26 So if he indulges in those things, he is not among those that endures to the end!

Are you teaching that you can lose salvation by sinning after your free will decision got salvation started? Lol. True arminianism from Jacobus arminius.Smh! Just like your father.

Grace does not violate our free will at any time.

All of these are works. They have no role to play in salvation. Holiness is not by the effort of man. It is a gift at new birth.

Yes they are works of faith that prove that our faith is genuine else we are reprobates!

The prodigal son still remained a SON..he was never dis inherited. That is what you arminians fail to SEE.

But he could have died outside the Father's house. By the way, the Father already counted him DEAD till he came back!Luke 15:24,32

ABDULADINO:
Read Romans 8 : 28-29.

The believer has eternal life. What does 'preserving' him add?
Note that this 'preserving' does not prevent them from sinning nor does it give him eternal life (this he has already)

Seems like a redundant exercise according to your amateur theology

Scholar8200:
He believes and accepts and he must continue in that faith with the evidence of the fruits of love, holiness else he becomes a reprobate 2 Corinth 13:5

Ofcos you cannot have assurance without "goodworks". The repentant thief went to heaven and there was no good works following him.

sin

A believer does not lose his salvation by the sin of omission or commission.

I am sure you are not mistaking the death James mentioned to be the physical one; that lives us with one option!

If it is Spiritual death, then Paul wouldn't have been confident to say deliver such one for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.( 1 cor 5:5). And we know that spirits do not die, they only suffer eternal torment.So which death are you talking about?

Bro read your Bible ? I didnt write those did i?

12 And the love of [f]the great body of people will grow cold because of the multiplied lawlessness and iniquity,
13 But he who endures to the end will be saved.
Matthew 24:12,13

Endures and cleaves to the Lord in spite of the declension (per the highlighted) of some," And he... overcomes (is victorious) and ... obeys My commands to the [very] end [doing the works that please Me], I will give him authority and power over the nations;
Revelations 2:26 So if he indulges in those things, he is not among those that endures to the end!

Please do rightly divide the word of truth. The gospel is in dispensations. If you believe in rapture you will agree that the context of Matt 24..is tribulation, the time of great judgement on earth. Those enduring to the end are delivered out of tribulation into the millenial reign of Jesus Christ. It is not salvation.

Grace does not violate our free will at any time.

I agree grace does not give license to sin( Romans 6:1-2). The believer is urged to serve NOT TO KEEP SALVATION, because it is a secure position and a gift from God( 2 cor 5:14).

Yes they are works of faith that prove that our faith is genuine else we are reprobates!

I still maintain my stand that some of God's elect live barren lives without fruit..the thief on the cross is an example of such individuals. Faith + works does not equal salvation, that is an invention of the roman catholics. Salvation is Faith minus works.

But he could have died outside the Father's house. By the way, the Father already counted him DEAD till he came back!Luke 15:24,32

Yet he didn't die because God knows the end from the beginning. If God were to count believers who sin as dead then the blood of Jesus is powerless and has no efficacy, what you are advocating is that Jesus has to go back and hung on that cross every time a believer commits the sin of omission or comission. Very hilarious indeed.

Romans 8:28-39 is unequivocably clear that it is God's faithfulness that keeps them, not their faithfulness. God predestinated His elect to adoptions as sons through the purchase price of Jesus Christ's death. It is impossible for even one to be separated from God's love and that is why i said God preserves the elect by His grace and integrity in Jesus Christ. It isn't difficult to comprehend Romans 8:28-39.

vooks:


The believer has eternal life. What does 'preserving' him add?
Note that this 'preserving' does not prevent them from sinning nor does it give him eternal life (this he has already)

Seems like a redundant exercise according to your amateur theology

Lol. Kudos to you since you have the words of eternal life. I never claimed to be an embodiment of knowledge here. I am a student of the bible.

ABDULADINO:
Romans 8:28-39 is unequivocably clear that it is God's faithfulness that keeps them, not their faithfulness. God predestinated His elect to adoptions as sons through the purchase price of Jesus Christ's death. It is impossible for even one to be separated from God's love and that is why i said God preserves the elect by His grace and integrity in Jesus Christ. It isn't difficult to comprehend Romans 8:28-39.

Lol. Kudos to you since you have the words of eternal life. I never claimed to be an embodiment of knowledge here. I am a student of the bible.

What does 'keeping' entail?
Why do possessors of eternal life need 'keeping'?

ABDULADINO:
Ofcos you cannot have assurance without "goodworks". The repentant thief went to heaven and there was no good works following him.

That's because he died on the day he believed. Besides, he ceased to revile Jesus like his fellow.

A believer does not lose his salvation by the sin of omission or commission.

why then is he commanded to watch and pray, take heed, hold fast, be sober and vigilant?

If it is Spiritual death, then Paul wouldn't have been confident to say deliver such one for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.( 1 cor 5:5). And we know that spirits do not die, they only suffer eternal torment.So which death are you talking about?

spiritual death:separation from God! Paul issued the same discipline on Hymenaeus and Philetus. Did they repent? Did they not persist in their faith wrecking teachings and Paul said to avoid them? Were they still saved while overthrowing the faith of others? Before you claim they were not saved initially, remember Paul's principle in 1 Corinth 5:12,13

Please do rightly divide the word of truth. The gospel is in dispensations. If you believe in rapture you will agree that the context of Matt 24..is tribulation, the time of great judgement on earth. Those enduring to the end are delivered out of tribulation into the millenial reign of Jesus Christ. It is not salvation.

The churches in Revelations were on earth and a similar charge was given them

I still maintain my stand that some of God's elect live barren lives without fruit..

Do earnestly consider 2 Peter 1:8-12

Faith works does not equal salvation, that is an invention of the roman catholics. Salvation is Faith minus works.

But true faith that produces salvation will be revealed by newness life. Titus 1:15,16, Titus 2:12,13

Yet he didn't die because God knows the end from the beginning. If God were to count believers who sin as dead then the blood of Jesus is powerless and has no efficacy, what you are advocating is that Jesus has to go back and hung on that cross every time a believer commits the sin of omission or comission. Very hilarious indeed.

Define Grace using relevant scriptures

vooks:

What does 'keeping' entail?
Why do possessors of eternal life need 'keeping'?

He predestined,, He called,, He justified( saves from the power of sin),, He glorified.( saves from the presence of sin)...That's what keeping entails. Not the work of man, it is God that is at work both TO WILL and to DO of his good pleasure.

Scholar8200:
That's because he died on the day he believed. Besides, he ceased to revile Jesus like his fellow.

why then is he commanded to watch and pray, take heed, hold fast, be sober and vigilant?

spiritual death:separation from God! Paul issued the same discipline on Hymenaeus and Philetus. Did they repent? Did they not persist in their faith wrecking teachings and Paul said to avoid them? Were they still saved while overthrowing the faith of others? Before you claim they were not saved initially, remember Paul's principle in 1 Corinth 5:12,13
The churches in Revelations were on earth and a similar charge was given them

Do earnestly consider 2 Peter 1:8-12

But true faith that produces salvation will be revealed by newness life. Titus 1:15,16, Titus 2:12,13

Define Grace using relevant scriptures

busy..will attend shortly.