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Nairaland Forum / Entertainment / Sports / European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) / Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 (10579374 Views)
Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Pride Of London / Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe / Manchester United Fan thread: Forever Reds (2) (3) (4)
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Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Ibime(m): 5:03pm On Apr 21, 2016 |
Nihilist: I'm responsible for what I type, not what you comprehend. Get lost. I am having a key debate with Raumdeuter on the role of the wide-forwards in the 4-3-3 and why Insigne/Pedro should be classed differently from Anelka and Kuyt. We have already excluded the effect of 4-2-3-1 by removing Muller, Ozil, DeBruyne and co from this debate and focusing solely on Lampard, Gerrard, Matuidi and Hamsik, plus Toure (on occassion). So I don't know why a dimwitted punk is bleating nonsense from the sideline about the 4-2-3-1. It is inconsequential to this debate and has been from the start. 1 Like |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Ibime(m): 5:07pm On Apr 21, 2016 |
raumdeuter: That is obvious to even Otumba in the village. A key sign of dimwittedness is when someone chooses to focus on what intelligent people have already moved past. That is why we selected PSG, Chelsea, Liverpool and Napoli as our control data from the start and excluded Ozil, Muller and the likes. Ignore that buffoon. Tell me the difference between Pedro and Anelka. . . . and why Pedro has made Iniesta unproductive |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by raumdeuter: 5:14pm On Apr 21, 2016 |
Chelsea under 2004- 2010 played mainly 4-3-3 With Duff-Robben and Anelka-Malouda and it usually has a well defined defensive anchor Post 2011 Chelsea dumped 4-3-3 and went to 4-2-3-1 When Iniesta was at his peak between 08-2014 he was doing double digit assists every season Sometimes as high as 23 How can anyone call a Central midfieder who contributes double digits assists and as many as 23 assists per season as unproductive The Barcelona front 3 at everytime was more potent than any club and they dont need goals contribution from their midfield, all they need are passes and Possesion recycling |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Nihilist: 5:20pm On Apr 21, 2016 |
Ibime: Look at this intellectual philistine trying to run. Where did you move forward to. You were asked a simple question about City and Liverpool raumdeuter: So who is the 'WE' here? Dayo is the one that is trying to negotiate a soft landing for you. I won't. I will continue to show you up to be the load mouthed dimwit that you are. The only reason 4-3-3 entered this discussion is because you tried to claim that Gerrard was the attacking midfielder in a 4-3-3 under Bentez so that you can use that as excuse to Bash iniesta. Nobdy was discussing wide forwards here. From a discussion on Scholes and Barry, you tried to sneak in Insigne and Babbel? You absolute clown and joke of a man. Abeg come and answer how Iniesta the unproductive one has a better goal/assist rate than Scholes using the metric you chose 1 Like |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Ibime(m): 5:42pm On Apr 21, 2016 |
raumdeuter: We are getting somewhere now. We have established that Chelsea was a 4-3-3 team, so was Barca of which Iniesta is the most advanced CM. Napoli and PSG we have established as 4-3-3 teams. Liverpool I put forward, was also a 4-3-3 team most of the time, with Torres flanked by (1.) Kuyt and (2.) Maxi/Riera/Babel. In 2009, you could argue Gerrard had more freedom but by and large, 4-3-3. I posited that Toure performed that role at times also. So these are our control elements. The debate lost focus when you did not agree to the inclusion of Gerrard and Toure. . . . and one unintelligent ninja screaming on the sideline derailed the debate, not even knowing what we are trying to establish. Well lets not dwell too long since the argument has lost focus. I am happy that I have got you agree that Anelka and Pedro are comparable hence no excuse for Iniesta to be unproductive. The new argument you are positing (which is a seismic shift in the debate) is no longer about formation of Chelsea and Barca, but that Iniesta lost form at 29 years of age in 2013/2014. Really? At an age where his mates are just starting to fire. A midfielders peak is 28-32. Lampard at 31 scored 27 goals and 20 assists (Iniestas age now) in the same formation. So even if we accept that argument, let's conclude that even the form you put forward from 08-2014 is not comparable to his mates. 2 Likes |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Nihilist: 5:48pm On Apr 21, 2016 |
How can I be on the sideline when you quoted me first and have been disturbing me for the last 2 pages for 100 pounds? After being floored by superior arguments, you want to run to Dayo who is being nice to you, and Nihilist is suddenly on the sidelines. Dayo might go easy on you, but I wont. I went to Barca thread and your idiocy was already being discussed in giggles and laughter. Manyoo fans came to Chelsea thread to laugh at you. Even Madrid fans came here to shake their heads... Run to Dayo mate! Run and hide your fat head in shame!! 1 Like |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Ibime(m): 5:54pm On Apr 21, 2016 |
Nihilist: I'm a dimwit, yet you continue to put my name in your mouth everyday. You are obsessed with me nigga. If you noticed, since this debate, I was speaking with Dadehmola, Afrodoc and Raumdeuter, while you keep jumping into my case in an attempt to "show me up". Even back to the inception of this, you saw something on SkySports and couldn't wait to run here to make reference to me. I have told you ninja, I'm not concerned with you, yet you keep bringing me up. I have a First-Class Maths Degree, a Masters degree and an Accounting qualification that says I'm intelligent. Please allow boys discuss footy jejely without trying "show us up as a dimwit" all the time. We know who the real dimwits are. 5 Likes |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Nihilist: 6:08pm On Apr 21, 2016 |
Ibime: Follow the timeline of events diggz: Nihilist: Ibime: I really don't care about your degree(s) or your course of study. This is football talk. You quote me first. You insulted me first. And now after fooling yourself, it looks like you're about to have your own nya binghi moment Dude don't post pics of your graduation gown o. If you want to talk football then talk football civilly.. If you want to start saying things like 'child' 'Maths' etc, whilst making such an arrant fool of yourself than fans from different clubs are laughing at you, then be my guest. If you wan mad for market place, I will point you to the dustbin with google maps. 5 Likes |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by raumdeuter: 6:09pm On Apr 21, 2016 |
Ibime: Liverpool and City are not 4-3-3 teams. They are 4-2-3-1 teams and the advanced player in the hole is much closer to goal and expected to be a goal threat over a player in the midfield in a 4-3-3 Toure never played the 4-3-3. Citys optimized position would play Toure in the hole behind Aguero since he is too lazy to play in the double pivot. Toure also takes a lot of dead balls Now what do you mean by productivity? Goals and assists? These goals and assists from Lampard Gerrard and others are mainly artificially boosted by penalty kicks and dead balls which Iniesta doesnt take for his club PK are usually given to the Team star player or the oldest player in the team(Gerrard) In 2013/14 season for example Gerrard score over 10 PK that season out of his 13 goals so If we take out say 10 out of 13 goals we have 3 goals Is a 3 goal per season productive? Same goes with those who play Corner kicks and freekicks 2013/14 Iniesta was still giving double digit assist. And which rule says a midfielders peak has to be under 30? Ballack has his peak years under 30, Viera had his peak years under 30, Roy Keane had his peak years under 30, what matters is delivering at your peak If Messi should retire today would you say he wasnt great because he did play great football beyond age 28? What were his mates outputs minus dead balls in their peak. Iniesta was averaging double digits assists for 6seasons . In Gerrards entire career despite being a chief dead ball taker and played advanced roles on the field, he only had double digit assists 4 times in his career So who are these Iniestas mates you want us to compare numbers with? To strip it better and compare likes with likes can we get all their goals and assists minus dead balls and see where Iniesta ranks 4 Likes |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Nihilist: 6:22pm On Apr 21, 2016 |
Raumdeuter you can't remove set pieces from stats. Nobody cares if Iniesta or Scholes aren't good enough to take set pieces. On a different note, I read somewhere that Ozil has created like 300+ clear cut chances since joining Arsenal and only around 30 have been converted. That's another angle to this whole productivity yarns |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Ibime(m): 6:27pm On Apr 21, 2016 |
Nihilist: You done finish? Like I said: "Nihilist dey always find me". Na Diggz wey alert me say you dey find me. I discriminate who I discuss footie with so I quickly asked you to put your money where your mouth is to end your matter, whilst I discussed with Dadehmola and afrodoc about events we both witnessed. Ain't got time to discuss with google ninjas who no carry their see wetin we dey yarn. All this time you dey shout for background. Same with Raumdeuter, you still dey shout for background. Oya carry go now. In the first place, did you think I don't know that most niggas would disagree with my view on Iniesta? It no concern me jor, I am here to yarn how I feel about the game so "showing me up" means jackshyt. I advise you to get over your obsession cos I no send you at all. I discriminate who I discuss footie with my gee. 1 Like |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by raumdeuter: 6:31pm On Apr 21, 2016 |
You guys should just arrange a room and bunk together this weekend This Chelsea poor form don turn all their fans into PMSing whores 1 Like |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Nihilist: 6:38pm On Apr 21, 2016 |
Ibime: Obsession? Your delusions of grandeur are hilarious. You quoted me first, continued to quote me when the Manyoo fans joined in, and here you are again... You No send me, but can't stop quoting me. You no send me, but know my life history, and the club I was supporting in 2003. You no send me but you're telling me about your educational history that I didn't even ask for or care about. All of this over iniesta matter, and I'm not the only one that disagreed sef. You're the one who seems obsessed here my friend. Anyway, I will continue todiscuss footy here, and footy alone. And if you talk rubbish, and I quote you, feel free to go and report me to your mummy. 6 Likes |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Nihilist: 6:40pm On Apr 21, 2016 |
raumdeuter: Dude I just tire for wetin that boy dey write. It's already beginning to come dangerously close to 'don't quote me or I will tell my mummy for you' Old man acting like a chick. |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by dmcdad: 6:41pm On Apr 21, 2016 |
ollah1:Na wa to you oooooo. How you go dey ask Krasid wey be Ronaldo fanboy? That one no be Madrid fan na! Na Ronaldo fan him be. |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by raumdeuter: 6:50pm On Apr 21, 2016 |
Nihilist: Set pieces obscure the main reason for checking stats. An example is the Gerrard example I gave. He scored 13 goals in a season More than Van persie and Benteke did that season. Looking at the stats on goal scored you would say Gerrard was a better goal scorer than the two without checking the way the goals were scored Same with Chilavert and Rogerio Ceni who made tonnes of goals from set pieces At a time Fernando Hierro was Spain top scorer as a central defender because he was good from Set pieces Yesterday Mark Noble scored 2 goals from penalties the purpose of goal stats is to know which player is the sharpest in front of goal and in those cases the penalties have misrepresented the facts because its not a usual /regular play Its like using wealth stats(goals) to measure hardwork(sharpness) and we shouldnt discount people who won the lottery or get inheritance(penalties) 2 Likes |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by dmcdad: 6:56pm On Apr 21, 2016 |
Nihilist:
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Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Ibime(m): 6:58pm On Apr 21, 2016 |
raumdeuter: We go delve into the numbers. The main thing was getting you to agree that Iniesta is comparable to Lampard and co because before you dey argue say Barcelona 4-3-3 get k-leg. This boy done derail wetin I want yarn finish, so Im sure we'll pick up again at another time - with the starting base of "Iniesta is comparable to every attacking midfielder in a 4-3-3". The next phase would be to prove who played 4-3-3 before we proceed. 1 Like |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Nihilist: 7:11pm On Apr 21, 2016 |
raumdeuter: I'm on my phone now and hustling for my train home so I can't really go into this argument right now. I do think that the whole iniesta situation is already done and dusted. I think we already established that Iniesta was constantly finishing higher in the Balon D'or nominations than several other midfielders with superior numbers. So I'm not sure why our esteemed first class double degree holder, and Nobel laureate wants to go back to delving into numbers....when the top football authorities in Europe have proven that numbers are largely irrelevant when it comes to midfield play. I believe that truly intelligent people would instead focus on what truly constitutes excellence in midfield and why the likes of Ozil, Gerrard and Favreau have never been able to match Iniesta in the Balon Dor rankings... 2 Likes |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Nobody: 8:49pm On Apr 21, 2016 |
dmcdad: Yh no doubt but he was a Madrid fan earlier today. I had to quote him when a certain imbeciile rated him the greatest Madrid player because of goals and assists. What a day! |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Chestar5(f): 9:55pm On Apr 21, 2016 |
Some arguments on dis thread will never seize to amaze me...hmmnn... ... 1 Like |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by A40(m): 12:12am On Apr 22, 2016 |
Lol I been think say Wrestlemania don pass. Abi na UFC 200 be this? |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by A40(m): 12:13am On Apr 22, 2016 |
Lol I been think say Wrestlemania don pass. Abi na UFC 200 be this? 1 Like |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by olabode89(m): 1:38am On Apr 22, 2016 |
A40: Lmao! Correct! You b MMA devoted fan or just a casual fan? |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by A40(m): 5:48am On Apr 22, 2016 |
olabode89:I dey watch MMA pass boxing these days. Overeem vs Lesnar about 5 years back na him hook me |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Nihilist: 7:51am On Apr 22, 2016 |
A40: Seems like this MMA is here to stay sha. At a previous job, my manager was so into the sport that he used to fight white collar and then come into work with koko and bandage. I didn't really rate it until someone at my current place of employment put me on to Anderson Silva and Jon Jones. Now I can't get enough 1 Like |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by hensben(m): 9:43am On Apr 22, 2016 |
raumdeuter:Now I like this. But why not use same logic you display here when discussing hazard and Neymar huh. So you know. Double standard suppose be your name. You expect hazard to be hitting goals like Neymar when you know quit well their primary roles in their respective team are different. While the formal is expected to carry the team from midfield to attack the later is just to wait at final third to score in a league were they nurture and romance football unlike in epl were they play football like rugby game. 1 Like |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by raumdeuter: 9:48am On Apr 22, 2016 |
hensben: How does this affect them? Is Hazard making double digit assists per season or scoring double digit goals per season |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by hensben(m): 9:54am On Apr 22, 2016 |
raumdeuter:Go read my post you quoted again, I added to it. Comparing hazard to Neymar is senseless because; - they play in different league - while Neymar enjoy luxury of quality players around him hazard had few quality and good players, the rest average. -hazard play as LMf/winger(like Ribery& almost like iniesta) in 4-2-3-1 formation while Neymar play as LWF/striker(like cr7 & Anelka) in 4-3-3 formation. |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by raumdeuter: 10:34am On Apr 22, 2016 |
hensben: Ribery that you tried to compare Hazard to in his peak was a regular double digit assist provider and same with iniesta. Hazard is at his peak has spent 4yrs at a top club can you say the same for him. |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Nobody: 10:57am On Apr 22, 2016 |
4 games to go. And like play like play, Hazard still doesn't ve a league goal this season. What a time to be alive 2 Likes |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Nihilist: 11:41am On Apr 22, 2016 |
Chelsea technical director Michael Emenalo says he does not understand the fuss over Tottenham's youth policy. I may need to start watching these u-21 games. Bigkesh, where you dey watch the matches? |
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