afrodoc2:
I am not giving excuses for anyone. Go back and check our debate on Pep.
I have always maintained that the quality of players you have is number 1, the quality of coaching comes after that.
That is why I asked you the question about Pep coaching the bottom club and that club's coach in charge of Bayern.
The quality of players is the most important.

And I don't know why you mentioned the "moot" point since you were the on that asserted that coaches get the players they go for, now you are coming back to say they sometimes miss out on targets. You seem to be arguing with yourself on that one.

Thats not an excuse for anyone cos thats how life is. if everyone has all they wish for we would all on Friday night have a lamborghini in our driveway ferrying Beyonces nakeddd arssee to our houses

If we all have our wishes Allardyce too would have MSN plus BBC in his team

Most people work with what they have. If the "I didnt get all I wanted" was allowed then no one or no coach should be said to have failed since no one ever gets what they want. We all work with what we have

raumdeuter:


These excuses are sounding like what Arsenal fans give and you join others to laugh at them
We dont have enough money to spend, we are depending on young players, we dont have enough world clas players
I never knew a day wuld come these same excuses would be used for Mourinho

The moot point is the fact that world class players in a team increase the probability of success.
The underhand tactic is projecting what a manager would do without waiting to find out what players he has at his disposal.

If it was Sunderland that appointed Mourinho would you still have held him to the same expectations you are making now he is in charge of United?

afrodoc2:


The moot point is the fact that world class players in a team increase the probability of success.
The underhand tactic is projecting what a manager would do without waiting to find out what players he has at his disposal.

If it was Sunderland that appointed Mourinho would you still have held him to the same expectations you are making now he is in charge of United?

But he didnt get Sunderland, He got one of the heaviest spenders in Europe of the past 3 seasons. And he is paid more than any coach

Why would the heaviest spending club, pay 5M not to talk to anyone and a fat salary to a manager and we would be asking "What if he isnt allowed to spend"

He would be given money he would get some of what he wants, he wont get others No one would get 100% of what they wanted and they have to work with whatever they wanted

maybe Pep too would have wanted CRonaldo at his other clubs but didnt get them

raumdeuter:


My point is both coaches MUST win with whatever they get.

Mourinho has not even gone to the market you are already coming with "WHAT IF" scenarios. So if he fails it would be because he didnt get Ronaldo or Pogba

Both teams are known to spend, Both coaches regardless of what they get would be judged solely on the trophies they win or dont win by season end

Will it be wrong if I say you don't seem to see someone else's view

Enrique that led Roma to a 7th place finish in the weakened Serie A , led Celta to 9th in La Liga is now winning trebles, quintuples and ogantables in the same La Liga. It seems it's nice to be coaching Messi, Neymar and Suarez instead of Marco Borriello and Dani Osvaldo

raumdeuter:


But he didnt get Sunderland, He got one of the heaviest spenders in Europe of the past 3 seasons. And he is paid more than any coach

Why would the heaviest spending club, pay 5M not to talk to anyone and a fat salary to a manager and we would be asking "What if he isnt allowed to spend"

He would be given money he would get some of what he wants, he wont get others No one would get 100% of what they wanted and they have to work with whatever they wanted

maybe Pep too would have wanted CRonaldo at his other clubs but didnt get them

Who said "what if he is not allowed to spend"?

forap:
Will it be wrong if I say you don't seem to see someone else's view

No. There are few people on this thread who already see my view and agree its the most balanced. I am not expecting to convince anyone here

My point still remain the most balanced. We don't care about circumstances because everyone can come out with something

Both Pep and Jose are taking clubs with similar scenarios, same league same city, same rot, same fortune to blow.

Both Pep and Mourinho are expected to win starting from next season and failure to do that is failure for BOTH

If we start digging what if's we can also say Man Utd has a bigger tradition and have more players on the rise while City is a newbie and have more players on the decline

afrodoc2:

Who said "what if he is not allowed to spend"?

Below

forap:

What if there is a demand on Jose to play some younger players, where as Pep is able to get all established stars he wants? That's why I said we should wait till end of transfer window

afrodoc2:
Enrique that led Roma to a 7th place finish in the weakened Serie A , led Celta to 9th in La Liga is now winning trebles, quintuples and ogantables in the same La Liga. It seems it's nice to be coaching Messi, Neymar and Suarez instead of Marco Borriello and Dani Osvaldo

Oga Relax when u are making ur comments. Enrique had an issue with their legend Totti. That made him lose the dressing room. We all know how player power is like. At Celta, he got them to a 9tb position, the same position Chelsea finished last season. What would you say about that? He turned them to a team that plays attractive football

In his first season at Barca, he won it all bar Spanish super cup and defeated heavy weights in all leagues from Cyprus, Holland, France, England, Germany, Italy in the UCL. It's not an easy feat no matter hw u wanna downplay it.

Having the very best players in your team doesn't equate to winning trophies talk more of winning all possible trophies.

Give respect to whom it's due

I am not making excuses for anyone cos I am not a JM apologist and would have preferred Pep from the start actually.
But my point is this: Minimum achievement for both of them is Top 4 and champs league. And the top 4 should be 1st or 2nd, at least be very competitive in the league.
Both teams are a bit crappy at the moment. But based on the additions to either team you can start to make projections for next season.
If Watford appointed Pep for next season, would any sane man expect him to win the league.

The ability of the manager is important but ultimately it is the quality of the players available that is paramount.
SO LET US WAIT FOR THE TEAMS TO TAKE SHAPE OVER THE SUMMER BEFORE MAKING PROJECTIONS

raumdeuter:


No. There are few people on this thread who already see my view and agree its the most balanced. I am not expecting to convince anyone here

My point still remain the most balanced. We don't care about circumstances because everyone can come out with something

Both Pep and Jose are taking clubs with similar scenarios, same league same city, same rot, same fortune to blow.

Both Pep and Mourinho are expected to win starting from next season and failure to do that is failure for BOTH

If we start digging what if's we can also say Man Utd has a bigger tradition and have more players on the rise while City is a newbie and have more players on the decline

Life in itself is filled with ifs, nothing is absolute in this world. I wouldn't say your view is the most balanced, it's only the most narrowly scoped. I get your point, but you seem not to understand mine

ollah1:


Oga Relax when u are making ur comments. Enrique had an issue with their legend Totti. That made him lose the dressing room. We all know how player power is like. At Celta, he got them to a 9tb position, the same position Chelsea finished last season. What would you say about that? He turned them to a team that plays attractive football

In his first season at Barca, he won it all bar Spanish super cup and defeated heavy weights in all leagues from Cyprus, Holland, France, England, Germany, Italy in the UCL. It's not an easy feat no matter hw u wanna downplay it.

Having the very best players in your team doesn't equate to winning trophies talk more of winning all possible trophies.

Give respect to whom it's due

You are right. Remind me again what did he actually WIN before getting to Barca?

afrodoc2:


You are right. Remind me again what did he actually WIN before getting to Barca?

Remind me again what Pep won prior to his appointment at Barca

forap:


Life in itself is filled with ifs, nothing is absolute in this world. I wouldn't say your view is the most balanced, it's only the most narrowly scoped. I get your point, but you seem not to understand mine

If we all start with IF's. If my Grandma had a peniss she would have been my grandfather and I might have been born to the king of Saudi and Bill gates Sister and inherited 1billion

There is no one that cant give if's

The LvG that you sacked, what if he signed Ronaldo and Messi, what If DiMaria and Depay didnt flop, what if Schweini and Shaw didnt get injured
What if he kept Van persie chicharito and Nani, What if those narrow draws had ended up in wins

We can all play the game of If's to no end

ollah1:


Remind me again what Pep won prior to his appointment at Barca

Exactly

ollah1:


Remind me again what Pep won prior to his appointment at Barca

Remind me what Jose won prior to his appointment at Porto

ollah1:


[s]Oga Relax when u are making ur comments. Enrique had an issue with their legend Totti. That made him lose the dressing room. We all know how player power is like. At Celta, he got them to a 9tb position, the same position Chelsea finished last season. What would you say about that? He turned them to a team that plays attractive football [/s]

FYI, Enrique isn't better than David Moyes!

Abeg, must Barca fans defend anybody affiliatiated to their club even when the records speak otherwise??

Before Enrique became Manager at your club, he was a nobody - how does this obvious truth change the fact that Barca is a successful club or some positive stuff like that?

raumdeuter:


If we all start with IF's. If my Grandma had a peniss she would have been my grandfather and I might have been born to the king of Saudi and Bill gates Sister and inherited 1billion

There is no one that cant give if's

The LvG that you sacked, what if he signed Ronaldo and Messi, what If DiMaria and Depay didnt flop, what if Schweini and Shaw didnt get injured
What if he kept Van persie chicharito and Nani, What if those narrow draws had ended up in wins

We can all play the game of If's to no end

Lol, those are in the past, and they don't affect the immediate future directly. What if all the 1 0 wins ended in draw, lol.

Dadehmola:



FYI, Enrique isn't better than David Moyes!

Abeg, must Barca fans defend anybody affiliatiated to their club even when the records speak otherwise??

Before Enrique became Manager at your club, he was a nobody - how does this obvious truth change the fact that Barca is a successful club or some positive stuff like that?

Oh so he is a Barca fan, no wonder he just butted into the debate .
Barca fans on NL are more emotional than cerebral.

Dadehmola:



FYI, Enrique isn't better than David Moyes!

Abeg, must Barca fans defend anybody affiliatiated to their club even when the records speak otherwise??

Before Enrique became Manager at your club, he was a nobody - how does this obvious truth change the fact that Barca is a successful club or some positive stuff like that?

Why be say you dey always vex these days?

What's your problem?

Nihilist:
Why be say you dey always vex these days?

What's your problem?

WET WEED

elampiro:
In 93 days, Marcus Rashford has scored on his:

Manchester United debut
Premier League debut
Manchester Derby debut
Europa League debut
International debut

What a talent!




---COPIED AND PASTE

And i ve a friend who thinks he's another over rated English player. That he's amother Macheda. SMH!!

If the boy gets game time through out next season, he's gonna end up as one of the best strikers in the team

People just funny sha... arguably two of the most high profile managers in the world, hired by two clubs in dire need of success - so what is the argument here!?

AdeLaNa1:
And i ve a friend who thinks he's another over rated English player. That he's amother Macheda. SMH!!

If the boy gets game time through out next season, he's gonna end up as one of the best strikers in the team

He's definitely has the talent

RuuDie:
People just funny sha... arguably two of the most high profile managers in the world, hired by two clubs in dire need of success - so what is the argument here!?

There shouldn't be but Dayo came with his agenda to create conflict lol.
When Pep was appointed by Bayansh Dayo was almost delirious with joy claiming that Bayansh would dominate in Europe and win multiple UCLs under him. We saw how that panned out.

ollah1:


Remind me again what Pep won prior to his appointment at Barca

Lol! U're only proving Doc's point.
Nobody knew Pep b4 he signed for Barca. Nobody knew Enrique b4 he came to Barca. What does that tell u??

Anyone who coaches Barca is coming in as an automatic winner.

in all this discussion about expectations from Jose and pep we Don forget Chelsea with conte.
the league just got more unpredictable and I can't say who go win am, normally should've gone for the most stable team (arsenal).but after this season I Don finally give up on that team.
I really don't want pep To win it on his first try,we no go hear word for here again.

AdeLaNa1:
Lol! U're only proving Doc's point.
Nobody knew Pep b4 he signed for Barca. Nobody knew Enrique b4 he came to Barca. What does that tell u??

Anyone who coaches Barca is coming in as an automatic winner.

That is why it is stressful debating with some of these guys. The guy was making my own point for me and didn't know it.

afrodoc2:
There shouldn't be but Dayo came with his agenda to create conflict lol.
When Pep was appointed by Bayansh Dayo was almost delirious with joy claiming that Bayansh would dominate in Europe and win multiple UCLs under him. We saw how that panned out.

WHat was my agenda? That both managers be held to the same standard which some are now giving excuses on why they cant be most of the excuses reeks of hypocrisy

RuuDie:
People just funny sha... arguably two of the most high profile managers in the world, hired by two clubs in dire need of success - so what is the argument here!?

SOme dey claim say One of the managers have nothing to prove and only one has something to prove

They said top 4 is enough for one while the other has to win the league at first attempt

Can you detect the hypocrisy here

raumdeuter:


WHat was my agenda? That both managers be held to the same standard which some are now giving excuses on why they cant be most of the excuses reeks of hypocrisy

I will decide on whether they should be held to the same standards AFTER the summer acquisitions.
Spurs,Arsenal and Chelsea would have something to say about next season also.