tintingz:


How can different Quran copies exist today through some average people during Uthman era? It is not possible.

Well, you said COPY. It could be copy of different dialects.

How do you think constitutions still exist today, because it was implemented by legislators, How do you think Shakespeare books still exist today, because is it was publicly published, distributed round the world and was written by an influential person.

This is the same as the Quran which was published and distributed to lands under Uthman the leader in charge, an influential person with authority. In sharia law any form of blasphemy is death, now imagine someone writing his version of the Quran After Uthman ordered the burnt of other versions, wont the person be charged for blasphemy? Can someone rewrite his version of Quran in Saudi Arabia and publish it publicly in this present day without sharia-men beheading such person the next day?

This is assumption. It seems you didnt read my attachment how it brilliantly refuted your claim. You keep saying VERSION after you have been refuted that it is mere dialect in recitation/pronunciation of Quran. You missed where the writer says when Islam spreads out but they people (non-arab, non-Quraishi) recited Quran differently that appears to change the meaning. That was the reason Uthman called for those copies to be burnt (i:e those non-Qurashi dialects with which Quran was revealed) which i referred to earlier as FRAGMENT COPY.

The ONLY way you can successfully convince us is by bringing EVIDENCE that Sayyidina Uthman (ra) suppressed and killed those with other "versions". This is the logical reason. Matter of fact, the writer addressed this ad well.

I guess it is antispam-bot giving you pain in the neck.

Dont mind the robot jere

Empiree:
Well, you said COPY. It could be copy of different dialects.

When I say other copies, I also mean versions.

This is assumption. It seems you didnt read my attachment how it brilliantly refuted your claim. You keep saying VERSION after you have been refuted that it is mere dialect in recitation/pronunciation of Quran. You missed where the writer says when Islam spreads out but they people (non-arab, non-Quraishi) recited Quran differently that appears to change the meaning. That was the reason Uthman called for those copies to be burnt (i:e those non-Qurashi dialects with which Quran was revealed) which i referred to earlier as FRAGMENT COPY.

The hadith said "people differ over the book like Jews and Christians differ" how does Jews and christian differ? was is not by having different versions of interpretation of their books? Whether dialect or version it still fall under same thing.

Let's agree that it is all about dialect alone to save argument, who gave Uthman revelation to burn other copies of Quran because of dialect? Like I read hadiths in Albaqir's thread it says the Quran was revealed to the Prophet (SA) in seven style(versions), where, when does Uthman recieve revelations to burn other dialect of the Quran and rewrite it in one dialect ehn?

The ONLY way you can successfully convince us is by bringing EVIDENCE that Sayyidina Uthman (ra) suppressed and killed those with other "versions". This is the logical reason. Matter of fact, the writer addressed this ad well.

Can you provide evidence that Uthman didn't follow the law of sharia on blasphemy?

I've given you logical reason why the Uthmantic Quran still exist today without no other versions, you need to give evidence that Uthman the Islamic spiritual leader at that time didn't give laws on does that write versions of Quran.

For a leader to burn copies of Quran, what does that mean ehn?

Dont mind the robot jere

Lol, okies.

tintingz:
When I say other copies, I also mean versions.


The hadith said "people differ over the book like Jews and Christians differ" how does Jews and christian differ? was is not by having different versions of interpretation of their books? Whether dialect or version it still fall under same thing.

All these na 'awawi'. I am not to determine the authenticity of the said hadith you cited. All i know is there are overwhelming ahadith that dont even support such thing. Besides, Jews and christians defer in many things and Quran itself talks about it. Maybe you might need to define "version".

Let's agree that it is all about dialect alone to save argument, who gave Uthman revelation to burn other copies of Quran because of dialect? Like I read hadiths in Al.baqir's thread it says the Quran was revealed to the Prophet (SA) in seven style(versions), where, when does Uthman recieve revelations to burn other dialect of the Quran and rewrite it in one dialect ehn?

He was the "president" and authority. So it was imperative for him to preserve Quran. And Nabi (sa) said to follow sunnah of Sahaba as well, which means their sunnah is sunnah of nabi(SAW). Again, if you had read and digest my attachment, it is clear that Uthman(ra) wanted to preserve Quran in the language and dialect it was revealed which is Quraishi.

Can you provide evidence that Uthman didn't follow the law of sharia on blasphemy?

This question is ONLY relevant IF you are able to PROOF to us that he suppressed and killed others with Quran copies

I've given you logical reason why the Uthmantic Quran still exist today without no other versions, you need to give evidence that Uthman the Islamic spiritual leader at that time didn't give laws on does that write versions of Quran.

Very simple. The ONLY WAY you can disprove Quran we have today is by bringing OTHER VERSIONS. But merely claiming they did not exist today because you "think" Uthman(ra) forced them out is mere supposition. If you ask me where other versions of the Bibles are it is very easy to provide them today without second guess. When you go to court and tell the judge evidence is at home, it simply means you have no evidence.

For a leader to burn copies of Quran, what does that mean ehn?

Even today, it is still practiced. The sacred text is not allowed to float around. It is either to be buried or burnt. This is elementary we learned growing up. Again, if you read the attachment you would have seen the writer addressed this. There was no way Uthman(ra) could successfully captured different versions (if they were) from so many people and burn them. There would have been some people who would escape with those "versions"

Empiree:
All these na 'awawi'. I am not to determine the authenticity of the said hadith you cited. All i know is there are overwhelming ahadith that dont even support such thing. Besides, Jews and christians defer in many things and Quran itself talks about it. Maybe you might need to define "version".

The same way Jews and Chriatian differ was the same way muslims during Uthman era are differing over Quran. Even today Muslims differ in interpretation of the Quran.

He was the "president" and authority. So it was imperative for him to preserve Quran. And Nabi (sa) said to follow sunnah of Sahaba as well, which means their sunnah is sunnah of nabi(SAW). Again, if you had read and digest my attachment, it is clear that Uthman(ra) wanted to preserve Quran in the language and dialect it was revealed which is Quraishi.

Follow the sunnah, did Prophet Muhammad (SA) burnt any of the seven style revealed by Jibril? Did he tell his followers to burn any version of the Quran?

This question is ONLY relevant IF you are able to PROOF to us that he suppressed and killed others with Quran copies

What's the punishment for blasphemy in sharia?

Very simple. The ONLY WAY you can disprove Quran we have today is by bringing OTHER VERSIONS. But merely claiming they did not exist today because you "think" Uthman(ra) forced them out is mere supposition. If you ask me where other versions of the Bibles are it is very easy to provide them today without second guess. When you go to court and tell the judge evidence is at home, it simply means you have no evidence.

It seems you don't get it, I've told you that the Uthmantic Quran exist today because it was published publicly and distributed to lands just like every other novel books existing today and secondly Muslims are to obey the Islamic leaders.

Bible has only two versions, the roman catholic and Protestants(even tho they contain same text just additional 7 jewish stories and canon in Catholic bible.) any other are interpretations like King James version.

Even today, it is still practiced. The sacred text is not allowed to float around. It is either to be buried or burnt. This is elementary we learned growing up. Again, if you read the attachment you would have seen the writer addressed this. There was no way Uthman(ra) could successfully captured different versions (if they were) from so many people and burn them. There would have been some people who would escape with those "versions"

One question, between your book and wole Soyinka book which one will surpass?

tintingz:
The same way Jews and Chriatian differ was the same way muslims during Uthman era are differing over Quran. Even today Muslims differ in interpretation of the Quran.

Ehnn, so it is now "interpretation". Make up your mind brother. Quran will ever be interpreted WITH TIME. But not version.

Follow the sunnah, did Prophet Muhammad (SA) burnt any of the seven style revealed by Jibril? Did he tell his followers to burn any version of the Quran?

The way it was necessary for him and his predecessors to write down Quran and order his compilation. The prophet (saw) did not order any companions to compiled Quran. But by Divine Plan, Allah already portrayed Quran as "A BOOK" which means that was Divine plan. So Uthman(ra) being leader at the time is compelled to compiled the Quran ONLY in the dialect it was revealed. If he had allowed others to compiled it the way they pronounced the words and phrases, it would be very problematic now. I will give you example subsequently.

What's the punishment for blasphemy in sharia?

How relevant this is?. There is no SPECIFIC hudud for this from Quran. And from the hadith, there is no ijma either. Opinions only vary.

It seems you don't get it, I've told you that the Uthmantic Quran exist today because it was published publicly and distributed to lands just like every other novel books existing today and secondly Muslims are to obey the Islamic leaders.

But other copies have spread before he ordered that they should be burnt. They no longer exist textually and theoretically today (Quran) but the tribes and dialects are. If they were other versions, they would have exist today without doubt.


So here is example and this is your homework. Go to YouTube and listen to surah Kahf by Sheikh Sudais and Sheikh Salah Bukhatir. When you reach verse 19 (where it say "ayuha aska"), stop and replay it repeatedly from both shuyukh. Quraishi dialect is "aska" which Quran was revealed. But other dialect like aforementioned Shuyukh produce is like "asga"

Smae applies to other arab tribe still exist today. If they should all have written down Quran the way they pronounced the words, we would have different versions. But Sayyidina Uthman(ra) disregarded other dialect for Quraishi in which Quran was revealed. If he had allowed others to compiled Quran, by now, we would have in the same aya different versions "ayuha aska" and "ayuha asga"

But if a nigerian recite the same aya, he/she will pronounce "aska" as written in the Quran. So it is obvious it is about dialect that Uthman battled not version. If he had allowed other dialect to be compiled, aska and asga would have gave us different meanings today.

Hence, different versions. Btu unfortunately that's not the case. May Allah have mercy on Sayyidina Uthman. Ameen

So go and do this homework before you comment. Imagine if Uthman had allowed other dialects to be recorded, they would have been a lot that would completely changed the meaning. I only used surah kahf ayah 19 as a case study. Same thing with Egyptian, Moroccan etc, they have different pronunciations but one Quraishi dialect with which Quran was revealed supersedes.

The same can be said of "google". I pronounce it just like that "GUGU". But Nigerians pronounce it like "GỌGU" with dot sign beneath O, But correct way is "GUGU". This is simply a matter of accent or dialect. Thats what happens with Quran. Other dialects Quran dont exist (which is what was burnt but the people still exist today. That why you still see them pronounce "ka" as "ga"


As for Bible you brought up, say for instance a King James verse says "God glorifies His SERVANT Jesus". But New Standard Bible says "God glorifies his SON Jesus" in the same verse. That's not interpretation anymore. That's versions. That's exactly what happened to Bible versions beyond Protestant and Catholic 66 and 77 Book. So they have more than 50 versions which includes Women's bible. Everywhere 'he' is used for Jesus, they changed it to "she". That's not translation. That's version. Same with skate Bible, Gay Bible, Kanye Bible and the list goes on. That's versions not translations

Empiree:
Ehnn, so it is now "interpretation". Make up your mind brother. Quran will ever be interpreted WITH TIME. But not version.

Interpretations, other copies, versions, all fall under something. Maybe I should say other version copies, that will be clearer.

Many people during the time of `Uthman had their own explanatory notes in their personal copies of the Qur’an. Others had written down portions of the Qur’an themselves. In order to prevent any future issues of explanatory notes being considered as part of the Qur’an or arguments due to a mistake on the part of the writer – claiming that he has something of the Qur’an which others do not have – these old copies were burnt.
http://islamqa.org/hanafi/seekersguidance-hanafi/32699

^^ People were writing the Quran in their views(versions), which follows the hadith that said "they differ over the book like Jews and Christians" and this also follow my argument.

The way it was necessary for him and his predecessors to write down Quran and order his compilation. The prophet (saw) did not order any companions to compiled Quran. But by Divine Plan, Allah already portrayed Quran as "A BOOK" which means that was Divine plan. So Uthman(ra) being leader at the time is compelled to compiled the Quran ONLY in the dialect it was revealed. If he had allowed others to compiled it the way they pronounced the words and phrases, it would be very problematic now. I will give you example subsequently.

The Quran was revealed in seven style(version) according a sahih hadith.


You should note, may Allaah bless you, that the Qur’aan was revealed in one style at the beginning, but the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) kept asking Jibreel until he taught him seven styles, all of which were complete. The evidence for that is the hadeeth of Ibn ‘Abbaas who narrated that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Jibreel taught me one style and I reviewed it until he taught me more, and I kept asking him for more and he gave me more until finally there were seven narrated (narrated by al-Bukhaari, 3047; Muslim, 819)

The Quran was revealed in seven style, the Prophet(SA) read one style because he was from that tribe but he never burnt nor order his followers to burn them.

You can't compare the compilation with burning of Quran copies, Abu Bakr was even scared to compile the Quran because the Prophet(SA) didnt do it(even tho I find it ridiculous in hadiths for the Prophet not to have compiled it during his time instead it was scattered) until Allah opened Abu Bakr heart to do it, Uthman in the other hand burnt something revealed to the Prophet without no revelation.

How relevant this is?. There is no SPECIFIC hudud for this from Quran. And from the hadith, there is no ijma either. Opinions only vary.

Penalty for blasphemy is death just like apostasy, you can Google it and see fatwas on blasphemers.

There is a hadith about someone killed for blasphemy.

But other copies have spread before he ordered that they should be burnt. They no longer exist textually and theoretically today (Quran) but the tribes and dialects are. If they were other versions, they would have exist today without doubt.

Lol, how many times will i explain this to you?

Uthman is the Islamic spiritual leader of his time, what he says is final and besides the other copy of Quran where NOT officially published and distributed, there is no hadith that said the other versions of Quran spread to nations.

So here is example and this is your homework. Go to YouTube and listen to surah Kahf by Sheikh Sudais and Sheikh Salah Bukhatir. When you reach verse 19 (where it say "ayuha aska"), stop and replay it repeatedly from both shuyukh. Quraishi dialect is "aska" which Quran was revealed. But other dialect like aforementioned Shuyukh produce is like "asga"

Smae applies to other arab tribe still exist today. If they should all have written down Quran the way they pronounced the words, we would have different versions. But Sayyidina Uthman(ra) disregarded other dialect for Quraishi in which Quran was revealed. If he had allowed others to compiled Quran, by now, we would have in the same aya different versions "ayuha aska" and "ayuha asga"

I understand you clearly here but there is NO revelation that command Uthman to burn the versions.

And from our arguements, it shows there were versions of Quran that existed during Uthman era.

But if a nigerian recite the same aya, he/she will pronounce "aska" as written in the Quran. So it is obvious it is about dialect that Uthman battled not version. If he had allowed other dialect to be compiled, aska and asga would have gave us different meanings today.

Hence, different versions. Btu unfortunately that's not the case. May Allah have mercy on Sayyidina Uthman. Ameen

Lol, do you know dialect can turn to versions?

In Yoruba Oko, Ogun with no marks can be many meanings, Obi in yoruba meaning is different from Obi in Igbo.

Dialects can result to different translations and interpretations which prompt Uthman to burn them because Muslims were differing like Christians and Jews. You can see it falls under same thing.

So go and do this homework before you comment. Imagine if Uthman had allowed other dialects to be recorded, they would have been a lot that would completely changed the meaning. I only used surah kahf ayah 19 as a case study. Same thing with Egyptian, Moroccan etc, they have different pronunciations but one Quraishi dialect with which Quran was revealed supersedes.

The same can be said of "google". I pronounce it just like that "GUGU". But Nigerians pronounce it like "GỌGU" with dot sign beneath O, But correct way is "GUGU". This is simply a matter of accent or dialect. Thats what happens with Quran. Other dialects Quran dont exist (which is what was burnt but the people still exist today. That why you still see them pronounce "ka" as "ga"

Refer to my response above.

As for Bible you brought up, say for instance a King James verse says "God glorifies His SERVANT Jesus". But New Standard Bible says "God glorifies his SON Jesus" in the same verse. That's not interpretation anymore. That's versions. That's exactly what happened to Bible versions beyond Protestant and Catholic 66 and 77 Book. So they have more than 50 versions which includes Women's bible. Everywhere 'he' is used for Jesus, they changed it to "she". That's not translation. That's version. Same with skate Bible, Gay Bible, Kanye Bible and the list goes on. That's versions not translations

The only thing that's causing much confusion among christians is the interpretations, they dont learn and understand the original language of the bible to interprete the bible texts.

The Protestant and the roman catholic bible are the same just that catholic bible has additional 7 collection to their books which are:

the seven books in question--Tobit, Judith, 1 and 2 Maccabees, Wisdom, Ecclesiasticus, and Baruch--are properly called the deuterocanonical books.
https://www.catholic.com/qa/didnt-the-catholic-church-add-to-the-bible

You need to provide the claim 50 versions you're talking about, maybe you're mistaken with interpretations, we have different interpretation of Quran as well like Picktall, Yusuf Ali etc.

You talked about gay bible that support homosexuality, there are gay Muslim communities in France as well with their mosque if you don't know, now which Quran are they reading to support thier homosexuality?

tintingz:
Interpretations, other copies, versions, all fall under something. Maybe I should say other version copies, that will be clearer.

not at all. These can not be the same. Verses can be INTERPRETED but will not change the text. VERSIONS are examples I gave about bible. That changed their text.

Many people during the time of `Uthman had their own explanatory notes in their personal copies of the Qur’an. Others had written down portions of the Qur’an themselves. In order to prevent any future issues of explanatory notes being considered as part of the Qur’an or arguments due to a mistake on the part of the writer – claiming that he has something of the Qur’an which others do not have – these old copies were burnt.
http://islamqa.org/hanafi/seekersguidance-hanafi/32699

^^ People were writing the Quran in their views(versions), which follows the hadith that said "they differ over the book like Jews and Christians" and this also follow my argument.

Don't know why you chose to stick to islamqa on this one. They are not too vast.

The Quran was revealed in seven style(version) according a sahih hadith.


You should note, may Allaah bless you, that the Qur’aan was revealed in one style at the beginning, but the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) kept asking Jibreel until he taught him seven styles, all of which were complete. The evidence for that is the hadeeth of Ibn ‘Abbaas who narrated that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Jibreel taught me one style and I reviewed it until he taught me more, and I kept asking him for more and he gave me more until finally there were seven narrated (narrated by al-Bukhaari, 3047; Muslim, 819)

The Quran was revealed in seven style, the Prophet(SA) read one style because he was from that tribe but he never burnt nor order his followers to burn them.

Styles doesn't equal to versions. Qur’an is still recited in different styles today. Compare Arabia recitation to Nigerian Adhabi like sheikh Adam Abdullah ilori or the way old people recite QURAN in Nigeria. They pronunced every word all the way but arabs shorten the pronunciations. For instance, if a verse ends with "MI", "KI" etc as written in the Qur’an, yoruba adhabi and maybe Markazi pronunce it EXACTLY like that. But Arab pronounce it like M, K,. That's their dialect but doesn't change the meaning. So if ARABS pronunce 'asga' instead of 'aska' as revealed, doesn't change the meaning.

You can't compare the compilation with burning of Quran copies, Abu Bakr was even scared to compile the Quran because the Prophet(SA) didnt do it(even tho I find it ridiculous in hadiths for the Prophet not to have compiled it during his time instead it was scattered) until Allah opened Abu Bakr heart to do it, Uthman in the other hand burnt something revealed to the Prophet without no revelation.

this is nothing. Abu Bakr simply didn't want to do it bcus he considered it bidaah.

Penalty for blasphemy is death just like apostasy, you can Google it and see fatwas on blasphemers.

There is a hadith about someone killed for blasphemy.

unless you have evidence that Uthman killed those people is the only way your argument may be considered

Uthman is the Islamic spiritual leader of his time, what he says is final and besides the other copy of Quran where NOT officially published and distributed, there is no hadith that said the other versions of Quran spread to nations.

it simply means there were no other "versions". If you sue someone to court for stealing your money, judge needs PROOF or EVIDENCE to substantiate your claim. If you tell the judge that your evidence is at home, judge considers such as NO EVIDENCE. So you have no evidence but assumptions.

I understand you clearly here but there is NO revelation that command Uthman to burn the versions.

this is irrelevant. We have no revelations before we do some things today like wolimot a quran, quran competetion etc. Uthman simply used his qiyas and ijtihad which are parts of Islamic fiqh

And from our arguements, it shows there were versions of Quran that existed during Uthman era.

No, you are unable to prove it. Again, VERSION is when you bring together two or more different Qur’an with EXACT opposite of each other. Like for instance, sura fathia, you have your quran in Nigeria and it says

"All praise and thanks due to Allah...." but you have another Quran from America and in the same verse it says "All praise and thanks due to the messanger".

This is called different versions which you are unable to prove. But I proved this from the bible when I used Acts of Apostles as a case study.

Lol, do you know dialect can turn to versions?

no. As I cited two Arabian quran reciters the way they pronunce 'ga' instead of 'ka', they know the meaning doesn't change. It is their tongue just like I cited Google.

Dialects can result to different translations and interpretations which prompt Uthman to burn them because Muslims were differing like Christians and Jews. You can see it falls under same thing.

again, in the absence of evidence, claims, arguments, assumptions are null and void.

You need to provide the claim 50 versions you're talking about, maybe you're mistaken with interpretations, we have different interpretation of Quran as well like Picktall, Yusuf Ali etc.

in a bible where HE is used but edited in another bible and replaced with SHE is not just translation. That's VERSIONS. That's different from translation of Yusuf Ali and others.

You talked about gay bible that support homosexuality, there are gay Muslim communities in France as well with their mosque if you don't know, now which Quran are they reading to support thier homosexuality?

those Muslims are gay base on influence on them by their environment. They have no Qur’an backup.

You Are Still Unable To Establish Evidence Of Various Versons of Qur’an. YOU ONLY MADE UNSUBSTANTIATED CLAIMS.

Another evidence of bible VERSION is the death of Judas. Iscariot. Matthew 27:5 says he died by hanging. But Act 1:18 says he fell and bursted. This are different VERSIONS which I'm expecting you to bring about Qur’an. You are unable to do so. So the above shows Judas's death is not translation problems but VERSIONS.

Can You Do The Same With Quran by comparing Nigeria and Saudi Qur’an?. I'm waiting

Empiree:
not at all. These can not be the same. Verses can be INTERPRETED but will not change the text. VERSIONS are examples I gave about bible. That changed their text.

Interpretations can lead to different version, e.g some Quran interpretation differ like the case of adultery, some interpretation said flog fornicators, some said adultery some said both, adultery is different from fornication but sharia-men will say punishment for adultery is stoning to death because hadith said so that the Quran was talking about fornication. You can see how things differ.

Don't know why you chose to stick to islamqa on this one. They are not too vast.

They are Islamic sites.

All my quotes are all from Islamic sites, so that you won't say I'm quoting from anti-Islamic site.

Styles doesn't equal to versions. Qur’an is still recited in different styles today. Compare Arabia recitation to Nigerian Adhabi like sheikh Adam Abdullah ilori or the way old people recite QURAN in Nigeria. They pronunced every word all the way but arabs shorten the pronunciations. For instance, if a verse ends with "MI", "KI" etc as written in the Qur’an, yoruba adhabi and maybe Markazi pronunce it EXACTLY like that. But Arab pronounce it like M, K,. That's their dialect but doesn't change the meaning. So if ARABS pronunce 'asga' instead of 'aska' as revealed, doesn't change the meaning.

Like have said, I get what you're saying clearly, not disputing, what I'm saying is, dialects can lead to different interpretation and will lead to versions, there was no marks on original Quran.

This is was what Uthman prevented from happening, unfortunately it is happening.

this is nothing. Abu Bakr simply didn't want to do it bcus he considered it bidaah.

Yes, and Allah open his(Abu Bakr) heart to do it. Where did Allah open Uthman heart to rewrite the Quran and burn the other copies?

Unless you have evidence that Uthman killed those people is the only way your argument may be considered

You haven't provide any evidence Uthman didn't gave law on blasphemy.

it simply means there were no other "versions". If you sue someone to court for stealing your money, judge needs PROOF or EVIDENCE to substantiate your claim. If you tell the judge that your evidence is at home, judge considers such as NO EVIDENCE. So you have no evidence but assumptions.

Lol, the ones Uthman burnt nko? Are they story books?

this is irrelevant. We have no revelations before we do some things today like wolimot a quran, quran competetion etc. Uthman simply used his qiyas and ijtihad which are parts of Islamic fiqh

I'm talking about Uthman 'burning' 6 style revealed to Prophet Muhammad (SA), not some ceremonies stuff.

No, you are unable to prove it. Again, VERSION is when you bring together two or more different Qur’an with EXACT opposite of each other. Like for instance, sura fathia, you have your quran in Nigeria and it says

"All praise and thanks due to Allah...." but you have another Quran from America and in the same verse it says "All praise and thanks due to the messanger".

This is called different versions which you are unable to prove. But I proved this from the bible when I used Acts of Apostles as a case study.

Please what does this hadith word means "Muslims differ over the book like Jews and Christians"?

You still arguing that there were no versions of Quran during Uthman era.

no. As I cited two Arabian quran reciters the way they pronunce 'ga' instead of 'ka', they know the meaning doesn't change. It is their tongue just like I cited Google.

I've giving you example on Quran interpretation that differ.

again, in the absence of evidence, claims, arguments, assumptions are null and void.

I've provided hadith evidence, what else do you want?

in a bible where HE is used but edited in another bible and replaced with SHE is not just translation. That's VERSIONS. That's different from translation of Yusuf Ali and others.

Lol, it is still interpretations, the original Hebrew Bible didn't use "She" instead "He", Queen James bible version was written to support homosexuality since the original bible is full of sexist, misogyny passages.

Some Yusuf Ali interpretation may differ from Picktall.

those Muslims are gay base on influence on them by their environment. They have no Qur’an backup.

Who told you they have no Quran to back it up? Why did they have Gay scholars, are the scholars there has figure head? Go and read about them.

Gay bible was also influenced by their environment.

You Are Still Unable To Establish Evidence Of Various Versons of Qur’an. YOU ONLY MADE UNSUBSTANTIATED CLAIMS.

Another evidence of bible VERSION is the death of Judas. Iscariot. Matthew 27:5 says he died by hanging. But Act 1:18 says he fell and bursted. This are different VERSIONS which I'm expecting you to bring about Qur’an. You are unable to do so. So the above shows Judas's death is not translation problems but VERSIONS.

Can You Do The Same With Quran by comparing Nigeria and Saudi Qur’an?. I'm waiting

Lol, What about Quran verse Allah said if He will he leaves people astray, if he will he guides them, another verse said any wrong doing is from yourself not from Allah. There is another verse Allah said he created man from dust and another verse said from a drop?

tintingz:
Interpretations can lead to different version, e.g some Quran interpretation differ like the case of adultery, some interpretation said flog fornicators, some said adultery some said both, adultery is different from fornication but sharia-men will say punishment for adultery is stoning to death because hadith said so that the Quran was talking about fornication. You can see how things differ.

No no no. I see what your problem is. I think you need to properly define VERSION. Interpretation can not change the text. Version however is what we are dealing with here. Example of interpretation is in sura Maiha ayah 51. The arabic text is the same but if text is different that's VERSION. But understanding (interpretation) may differ. This is where Quran is different from Bible. Bible texts have been changed.

They are Islamic sites.
All my quotes are all from Islamic sites, so that you won't say I'm quoting from anti-Islamic site.

Doesnt matter. There understanding maybe limited

Like have said, I get what you're saying clearly, not disputing, what I'm saying is, dialects can lead to different interpretation and will lead to versions, there was no marks on original Quran.

Unfortunately it hasnt. We still have different dialects as I have already highlighted. If there is change in TEXT, that's VERSION. Accent or dialect is not. So a man pronouncing "ka" as "ga" doesnt change the intended meaning of the verse.

This is was what Uthman prevented from happening, unfortunately it is happening.

No, nothing is happening. You are confusing interpretation with version. For instance, there is a hadith where nabi(SAW) talked river Euphrates will uncover "black gold". That is TEXT. But muslims understand it different. There different understanding doesnt change text. Some muslim believe a time will come when "black gold" will be uncovered. Some say "black gold" is symbolism for oil. Neither of them change the original text.

Yes, and Allah open his(Abu Bakr) heart to do it. Where did Allah open Uthman heart to rewrite the Quran and burn the other copies?

Again, it is by Allah's Wisdom what Uthman Ibn Affan did.

You haven't provide any evidence Uthman didn't gave law on blasphemy.

As i said before, it is onus on you to provide evidence that Uthman must have suppressed "other versions of Quran" by using Sharia law to force his way on them because he was the authority.

Lol, the ones Uthman burnt nko? Are they story books?

Again, what he burnt were dialect other than that which Quran was revealed (Quraishy dialect)

Please what does this hadith word means "Muslims differ over the book like Jews and Christians"?

this could mean TRANSLATIONS of the meaning (tafsir), INTERPRETATIONS (tawil). This has nothing to do with versions.

You still arguing that there were no versions of Quran during Uthman era.

None unless you can provide EVIDENCE. Your ONLY evidence is by brining another Quran DIFFERENT from the one we have. No assumptions.

I've giving you example on Quran interpretation that differ.

There will always be differences in interpretation but ALL muslims agree to TEXT of Qur'an

I've provided hadith evidence, what else do you want?

It proves nothing but hearsays

Lol, it is still interpretations, the original Hebrew Bible didn't use "She" instead "He", Queen James bible version was written to support homosexuality since the original bible is full of sexist, misogyny passages.

I dont need to say more. This post of yours proves it is another version

Some Yusuf Ali interpretation may differ from Picktall.

No, you should rather say translation. Translation of one may be better than other. Translation is use of word. Below is example of translations


Surah 8: 12

Pickthall: When thy Lord inspired the angels, (saying): I am with you. So make those who believe stand firm. I will throw fear into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Then smite the necks and smite of them each finger.

Yusuf Ali: Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instill terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."

First all, English is not Quran. So buy a Quran from Saudi and compare with the one you have in Nigeria. The arabic text is the same but translations in to another language is CHOICE OF WORDS. Now, from both translation, there is no difference. This is different from Bible versions which use SON and SERVANT in the same verse.

Who told you they have no Quran to back it up? Why did they have Gay scholars, are the scholars there has figure head? Go and read about them

You still dont get it. Anyone can say anything but they cant change the text. Besides, I will like to hear what verse of Quran they use to backup their madness. Being Scholar doesnt prove anything. Hadith already told us about End Time Scholars

Gay bible was also influenced by their environment.

Thats version bcus they created it to fit their whims. But a Muslim can not created another version of Quran to suit his or her desires. See the difference?. A muslim can only twist (interpret its meaning) verse of Quran but can not change the text.


[/quote]Lol, What about Quran verse Allah said if He will he leaves people astray, if he will he guides them, another verse said any wrong doing is from yourself not from Allah. There is another verse Allah said he created man from dust and another verse said from a drop?[/quote]ha ha... this you are talking about different verse and different context. This is a matter of tafsir. Different from Bible verses. The bible verses are talking about same individual the way he died.

Empiree:
No no no. I see what your problem is. I think you need to properly define VERSION. Interpretation can not change the text. Version however is what we are dealing with here. Example of interpretation is in sura Maiha ayah 51. The arabic text is the same but if text is different that's VERSION. But understanding (interpretation) may differ. This is where Quran is different from Bible. Bible texts have been changed.

OK, why is punishment for adultry here different (Quran 4:25) from (Quran 24:2)?

In (Quran 24:2) some even add stoning to thier interpretation like Mohsin khan.

Doesnt matter. There understanding maybe limited



Unfortunately it hasnt. We still have different dialects as I have already highlighted. If there is change in TEXT, that's VERSION. Accent or dialect is not. So a man pronouncing "ka" as "ga" doesnt change the intended meaning of the verse.

Are you saying interpretation don't differ? Was the Quran originally written with marks?

My own argument is, various Quran versions existed during Uthman era.

No, nothing is happening. You are confusing interpretation with version. For instance, there is a hadith where nabi(SAW) talked river Euphrates will uncover "black gold". That is TEXT. But muslims understand it different. There different understanding doesnt change text. Some muslim believe a time will come when "black gold" will be uncovered. Some say "black gold" is symbolism for oil. Neither of them change the original text.

Yusuf Ali, picktall etc are all interpretation versions, arabic Quran is one but why do we see different interpretations and tafsir(exegesis) everywhere?

Again, it is by Allah's Wisdom what Uthman Ibn Affan did.

Where was this written in hadith or Quran?

As i said before, it is onus on you to provide evidence that Uthman must have suppressed "other versions of Quran" by using Sharia law to force his way on them because he was the authority.

You need to provide evidence he didn't. It goes both ways.

Again, what he burnt were dialect other than that which Quran was revealed (Quraishy dialect)

I won't repeat myself again.

this could mean TRANSLATIONS of the meaning (tafsir), INTERPRETATIONS (tawil). This has nothing to do with versions.

Read yourself again.

None unless you can provide EVIDENCE. Your ONLY evidence is by brining another Quran DIFFERENT from the one we have. No assumptions.

Again, which Quran version differ during Uthman era ehn?

If it was about dialect, why did Uthman have problem with it? This didn't happen during Prophet Muhammad time nor Abu Bakr time why Uthman era?

If we still use the 7 style Quran dialect today then what was the essence of burning Quran copies and rewrite it in one dialect?

There will always be differences in interpretation but ALL muslims agree to TEXT of Qur'an

Quran need interpretation to understand it verses.

it proves nothing but hearsays


I dont need to say more. This post of yours proves it is another version

Lol, have you read Hebrew bible before? You said Quran Arabic text never changes, that's the same for Hebrew bible.

No, you should rather say translation. Translation of one may be better than other. Translation is use of word. Below is example of translations


Surah 8: 12

Pickthall: When thy Lord inspired the angels, (saying): I am with you. So make those who believe stand firm. I will throw fear into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Then smite the necks and smite of them each finger.

Yusuf Ali: Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instill terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."

First all, English is not Quran. So buy a Quran from Saudi and compare with the one you have in Nigeria. The arabic text is the same but translations in to another language is CHOICE OF WORDS. Now, from both translation, there is no difference. This is different from Bible versions which use SON and SERVANT in the same verse.

Is English bible?

You still dont get it. Anyone can say anything but they cant change the text. Besides, I will like to hear what verse of Quran they use to backup their madness. Being Scholar doesnt prove anything. Hadith already told us about End Time Scholars

Maybe you ask them

Thats version bcus they created it to fit their whims. But a Muslim can not created another version of Quran to suit his or her desires. See the difference?. A muslim can only twist (interpret its meaning) verse of Quran but can not change the text.

Can original bible in it language be changed?

ha ha... this you are talking about different verse and different context. This is a matter of tafsir. Different from Bible verses. The bible verses are talking about same individual the way he died.

Both are matter of contradictions.

You are incredible

tintingz:
OK, why is punishment for adultry here different (Quran 4:25) from (Quran 24:2)?

In (Quran 24:2) some even add stoning to thier interpretation like Mohsin khan.


Are you saying interpretation don't differ? Was the Quran originally written with marks?

My own argument is, various Quran versions existed during Uthman era.


Yusuf Ali, picktall etc are all interpretation versions, arabic[b] Quran is one[/b] but why do we see different interpretations and tafsir(exegesis) everywhere?

Case Closed @bolded. If you believe Quran in Arabic is One, nothing else to say. Besides, those ayat you cited, the former doesnt mentioned precise punishment. So now there is noting to talk about. You have given "version" a whole new meaning by citing translations and interpretations as versions of Quran. My concern all along was Arabic Quran. Any other languages is not Quran. They are rather the meanings of it . So let me give you exmple of versions of Quran. I think i said this before.Say for instance you have your Quran (in Arabic) and you open sura Imran Ayah 85, it reads


وَمَنْ يَبْتَغِ غَيْرَ الْإِسْلَامِ دِينًا فَلَنْ يُقْبَلَ مِنْهُ وَهُوَ فِي الْآخِرَةِ مِنَ الْخَاسِرِينَ and then, you have another Quran (in Arabic from Malaysia and you open the same sura Imran ayah 85, then, it missing or there is another content there different fromt he former, then that's malaysia version of Quran becuase the content is different. That's what you are unable to prove all along. That's what I am looking for. You can use english other other laguages translation as proof of different versions. Quran is in Arabic as Quran itself righty said


إِنَّآ أَنزَلْنَٰهُ قُرْءَٰنًا عَرَبِيًّا لَّعَلَّكُمْ تَعْقِلُونَ

"We have sent it down as an Arabic Qur'an so you people may understand / use reason" (Q12:2)


As someone rightly commented online on this same issue. She said: "We today have different accents in arabic .. each country arabic country has a accent that is a little bit different then the other country but we all speak arabic (it's just like australia, england and USA they all speak english but different accent right ? the same here)"

Again, which Quran version differ during Uthman era ehn?

Since you have agreed Quran is ONE in Arabic as revealed, CASE CLOSED

If it was about dialect, why did Uthman have problem with it? This didn't happen during Prophet Muhammad time nor Abu Bakr time why Uthman era?

Dialects or not, Quran is Arabic Quran and you agreed it is ONE version everywhere in the WORLD. CASE CLOSED

Quran need interpretation to understand it verses.

No one disputes this. Interpretation or translation are not versions

Lol, have you read Hebrew bible before? You said Quran Arabic text never changes, that's the same for Hebrew bible.

So where did they get the idea of Moses buried himself as written in their Hebrew book?. Does that sounds like it was written by Moses?.Obviously that was changed or rewritten by some fellas. In case you dont understand what I am saying, it is in the Deuteronomy 34:5-7 and they even said God came down and buried Moses. Does that sound like revelation by God to you?. I smell blasphemy there.

Is English bible?

Do they have Gospel or Bible as preached by Jesus (in Jesus language)?. For as long as they dont have that, English is Bible. The more you can say is Greek bible. This is another version on its own bcuz there are some information in Greek bible that are missing in many English versions they have today.

Can original bible in it language be changed?

Which one is "Original Bible"? Does it even exist?. If it is kindly bring it forward.

You are incredible

tintingz:
OK, why is punishment for adultry here different (Quran 4:25) from (Quran 24:2)?

In (Quran 24:2) some even add stoning to thier interpretation like Mohsin khan.


Are you saying interpretation don't differ? Was the Quran originally written with marks?

My own argument is, various Quran versions existed during Uthman era.


Yusuf Ali, picktall etc are all interpretation versions, arabic Quran is one but why do we see different interpretations and tafsir(exegesis) everywhere?

Case Closed @bolded. If you believe Quran in Arabic is One, nothing else to say. Besides, those ayat you cited, the former doesnt mentioned precise punishment. So now there is noting to talk about. You have given "version" a whole new meaning by citing translations and interpretations as versions of Quran. My concern all along was Arabic Quran. Any other languages is not Quran. They are rather the meanings of it . So let me give you exmple of versions of Quran. I think i said this before.Say for instance you have your Quran (in Arabic) and you open sura Imran Ayah 85, it reads


وَمَنْ يَبْتَغِ غَيْرَ الْإِسْلَامِ دِينًا فَلَنْ يُقْبَلَ مِنْهُ وَهُوَ فِي الْآخِرَةِ مِنَ الْخَاسِرِينَ and then, you have another Quran (in Arabic from Malaysia and you open the same sura Imran ayah 85, then, it missing or there is another content there different fromt he former, then that's malaysia version of Quran becuase the content is different. That's what you are unable to prove all along. That's what I am looking for. You can use english other other laguages translation as proof of different versions. Quran is in Arabic as Quran itself righty said


إِنَّآ أَنزَلْنَٰهُ قُرْءَٰنًا عَرَبِيًّا لَّعَلَّكُمْ تَعْقِلُونَ

"We have sent it down as an Arabic Qur'an so you people may understand / use reason" (Q12:2)


As someone rightly commented online on this same issue. She said: "We today have different accents in arabic .. each country arabic country has a accent that is a little bit different then the other country but we all speak arabic (it's just like australia, england and USA they all speak english but different accent right ? the same here)"

Again, which Quran version differ during Uthman era ehn?

Since you have agreed Quran is ONE in Arabic as revealed, CASE CLOSED

If it was about dialect, why did Uthman have problem with it? This didn't happen during Prophet Muhammad time nor Abu Bakr time why Uthman era?

Dialects or not, Quran is Arabic Quran and you agreed it is ONE version everywhere in the WORLD. CASE CLOSED

Quran need interpretation to understand it verses.

No one disputes this. Interpretation or translation are not versions

Lol, have you read Hebrew bible before? You said Quran Arabic text never changes, that's the same for Hebrew bible.

So where did they get the idea of Moses buried himself as written in their Hebrew book?. Does that sounds like it was written by Moses?.Obviously that was changed or rewritten by some fellas. In case you dont understand what I am saying, it is in the Deuteronomy 34:5-7 and they even said God came down and buried Moses. Does that sound like revelation by God to you?. I smell blasphemy there.

Is English bible?

Do they have Gospel or Bible as preached by Jesus (in Jesus language)?. For as long as they dont have that, English is Bible. The more you can say is Greek bible. This is another version on its own bcuz there are some information in Greek bible that are missing in many English versions they have today.

Can original bible in it language be changed?

Which one is "Original Bible"? Does it even exist?. If it is kindly bring it forward.

Empiree:
You are incredibleCase Closed @bolded. If you believe Quran in Arabic is One, nothing else to say. Besides, those ayat you cited, the former doesnt mentioned precise punishment. So now there is noting to talk about. You have given "version" a whole new meaning by citing translations and interpretations as versions of Quran. My concern all along was Arabic Quran. Any other languages is not Quran. They are rather the meanings of it . So let me give you exmple of versions of Quran. I think i said this before.Say for instance you have your Quran (in Arabic) and you open sura Imran Ayah 85, it reads


وَمَنْ يَبْتَغِ غَيْرَ الْإِسْلَامِ دِينًا فَلَنْ يُقْبَلَ مِنْهُ وَهُوَ فِي الْآخِرَةِ مِنَ الْخَاسِرِينَ and then, you have another Quran (in Arabic from Malaysia and you open the same sura Imran ayah 85, then, it missing or there is another content there different fromt he former, then that's malaysia version of Quran becuase the content is different. That's what you are unable to prove all along. That's what I am looking for. You can use english other other laguages translation as proof of different versions. Quran is in Arabic as Quran itself righty said


إِنَّآ أَنزَلْنَٰهُ قُرْءَٰنًا عَرَبِيًّا لَّعَلَّكُمْ تَعْقِلُونَ

"We have sent it down as an Arabic Qur'an so you people may understand / use reason" (Q12:2)


As someone rightly commented online on this same issue. She said: "We today have different accents in arabic .. each country arabic country has a accent that is a little bit different then the other country but we all speak arabic (it's just like australia, england and USA they all speak english but different accent right ? the same here)"

The Quran is one, that's what Muslims believe and we're told to believe it is one.

I just surf the internet, and there was already a version of Quran called Al Furqan, written by some anti-islamic people, never knew this existed and I was arguing with you since.

Since you have agreed Quran is ONE in Arabic as revealed, CASE CLOSED



Dialects or not, Quran is Arabic Quran and you agreed it is ONE version everywhere in the WORLD. CASE CLOSED

Lol, ofcos it is one, you haven't answer which one Uthman burnt and why did he have problem with dialect?

No one disputes this. Interpretation or translation are not versions

They are versions.

So where did they get the idea of Moses buried himself as written in their Hebrew book?. Does that sounds like it was written by Moses?.Obviously that was changed or rewritten by some fellas. In case you dont understand what I am saying, it is in the Deuteronomy 34:5-7 and they even said God came down and buried Moses. Does that sound like revelation by God to you?. I smell blasphemy there.

You're just a funny fella.

If God buried Moses, that's the Jewish believe and that was what accounted in their scripture, why do you have problem with it? Most of this stories are heard by Jewish people before Islam came and they were said to be written down by saints and scholars.

Was the Quran compiled by the Prophet(SA) himself? don't be sentimental sir.

And besides God burying Moses himself might just be metaphor just like you believe it was a metaphor when Allah said he created Adam with his both hands.

Do they have Gospel or Bible as preached by Jesus (in Jesus language)?. For as long as they dont have that, English is Bible. The more you can say is Greek bible. This is another version on its own bcuz there are some information in Greek bible that are missing in many English versions they have today.

How do you know they don't have it? Have you been to Jewish land to confirm?

Greek is like lingual franca during Jesus era, the Romans were ruling those days. So it is not a surprise the new testament is both Aramaic and Greek, the word Jesus is Greek.

You're just posting without no evidence.

Which one is "Original Bible"? Does it even exist?. If it is kindly bring it forward.

The Original compilation bible by Constantine just like Uthman.

Where is the Original Quran?

tintingz:
The Quran is one, that's what Muslims believe and we're told to believe it is one.

I just surf the internet, and there was already a version of Quran called Al Furqan, written by some anti-islamic people, never knew this existed and I was arguing with you since.



Lol, ofcos it is one, you haven't answer which one Uthman burnt and why did he have problem with dialect?


They are versions.

You're just a funny fella.

If God buried Moses, that's the Jewish believe and that was what accounted in their scripture, why do you have problem with it? Most of this stories are heard by Jewish people before Islam came and they were said to be written down by saints and scholars.

Was the Quran compiled by the Prophet(SA) himself? don't be sentimental sir.

And besides God burying Moses himself might just be metaphor just like you believe it was a metaphor when Allah said he created Adam with his both hands.

How do you know they don't have it? Have you been to Jewish land to confirm?

Greek is like lingual franca during Jesus era, the Romans were ruling those days. So it is not a surprise the new testament is both Aramaic and Greek, the word Jesus is Greek.

You're just posting without no evidence.



The Original compilation bible by Constantine just like Uthman.

Where is the Original Quran?

"Al-Furqan" written and published in 1999 by Christian Arab palestinian guy called Anish Shorrosh. The dude that got his ass whooped by Sheikh Ahmad Deedat (ra) ..smh. he even spent time in jail for crime in the US and you take him serious?. You are incredible!

For the fact that you said it's from anti-Islam folks trashes what you called "version of quran". Abeg come with relevant excuses. Where is Anish now? . He's been put in permanent state of SHUT UP

Empiree:
"Al-Furqan" written and published in 1999 by Christian Arab palestinian guy called Anish Shorrosh. The dude that got his ass whooped by Sheikh Ahmad Deedat (ra) ..smh. he even spent time in jail for crime in the US and you take him serious?. You are incredible!

For the fact that you said it's from anti-Islam folks trashes what you called "version of quran". Abeg come with relevant excuses. Where is Anish now? . He's been put in permanent state of SHUT UP

I thought you said Quran cannot be rewrite in another version.

I've read about him, i just want to show you how Quran can be rewrite like every other books.

Tintingz I have sent you a mail

udatso:
Tintingz I have sent you a mail

Seen.

tintingz:
How will there be another book like the Quran when Uthman burnt some, when Ali's copy was rejected?

Anybody can write his/her own version of the Quran, the thing is such person will be killed by sharia-men.

Your post here does not even make any logical sense, there are over thousands of scripture books around the world that talk about God and humanity.


Most of the stories in the Quran can also be found in Jewish scriptures, they are not new to the Jews and Christians, the thing is that the stories were first heard by the Jews then the Christians before Islam came.

Producing another copy of Quran is a waste of time.

Again, what good logical reason should I believe Uthmantic Quran copy is the same as the Prophet's(SA) own, we were not present when these people were compiling the Quran.

What's your point sef, all the sahabis memorize the Quran in their head, so the issue was nt about d Arabic Quran but the translation dat divers a little

emekaRaj:


What's your point sef, all the sahabis memorize the Quran in their head, so the issue was nt about d Arabic Quran but the translation dat divers a little

These are my points.

- Why was Ali's compilation of Quran rejected by Umar and Abu Bakr?

- Where is the seven style Quran was revealed to Prophet Muhammad (SA) and why did Uthman has problem with Quran versions(dialect according to a brother) that makes him rewrite the Quran and burnt the other copies?

- Where is the original Quran copy written by the Prophet (SA) and are we reading the exact original text/message?

tintingz:
These are my points.

- Why was Ali's compilation of Quran rejected by Umar and Abu Bakr?

What is your proof that they rejected Ali's compilation?! Well, you should also note that Ali (RA) was part of the companions who agreed with Uthman on the standardization of the Qur'an, not to also forget that Ali (RA) became the Caliph and never spoke against what his predecessor did with regards to the Qur'an, rather, he praised them for a job well-done.

tintingz:

- Where is the seven style Quran was revealed to Prophet Muhammad (SA) and why did Uthman has problem with Quran versions(dialect according to a brother) that makes him rewrite the Quran and burnt the other copies?

What Uthman did was to make a standard copy using Quraishy dialect/script, which was how the Qur'an was revealed. The Prophet (SAW) was from Quraish, and spoke the Quraish dialect, it is just common sense to make that as the standard. Also, all the companions agreed to this standardization, and it still gave room for using other styles/dialect of recitation which are still present till today. Burning had to be done for the fact that people had written based on their own spellings or dialect, this could turn out to be very problematic, especially with the spread of Islam to non Arabs. All what the Caliphs did, never changed the Qur'an revealed to the Prophet (SAW). The development of vowel signs and standardization of the Arabic alphabet never changed the Qur'an too. In fact we now have made Qur'an into soft copies on computers, and into mobile phone apps, and still doesn't change the Qur'an to what was recited by the Prophet (SAW).

tintingz:

- Where is the original Quran copy written by the Prophet (SA) and are we reading the exact original text/message?

You should know that during the Prophet's (SAW) life time, the Qur'an was written as it was revealed, the Prophet (SAW) had trusted scribes, who would in turn read what they had written for the Prophet (SAW) and if there was any mistake, the Prophet (SAW) corrected them. The whole Qur'an was written down on different materials, but was majorly memorized. Abu Bakr collected them into a single binding, with the aid of the scribes of the Prophet (SAW) and those who had memorized it. So yes, the Qur'an as we have it today is the same as what was revealed to the Prophet (SAW). If there happened to be a difference in the Qur'an the Prophet (SAW) recited to the companions, then it would have been easily spotted, and such reports would have been much. Allah (SWT) had promised to preserve the Qur'an, and so was the Qur'an preserved.

I should repeat that the issue that lead to the standardization during the time of Uthman (RA) was that of recitation style, spelling and dialect which could become problematic in the future and not the content or meaning.

You may take a look at the early copy of the Qur'an that was discovered on this thread:
https://www.nairaland.com/2009067/early-copy-quran-discovered

sino:

What is your proof that they rejected Ali's compilation?! Well, you should also note that Ali (RA) was part of the companions who agreed with Uthman on the standardization of the Qur'an, not to also forget that Ali (RA) became the Caliph and never spoke against what his predecessor did with regards to the Qur'an, rather, he praised them for a job well-done.

Why is this different from shia people?

What Uthman did was to make a standard copy using Quraishy dialect/script, which was how the Qur'an was revealed. The Prophet (SAW) was from Quraish, and spoke the Quraish dialect, it is just common sense to make that as the standard. Also, all the companions agreed to this standardization, and it still gave room for using other styles/dialect of recitation which are still present till today. Burning had to be done for the fact that people had written based on their own spellings or dialect, this could turn out to be very problematic, especially with the spread of Islam to non Arabs. All what the Caliphs did, never changed the Qur'an revealed to the Prophet (SAW). The development of vowel signs and standardization of the Arabic alphabet never changed the Qur'an too. In fact we now have made Qur'an into soft copies on computers, and into mobile phone apps, and still doesn't change the Qur'an to what was recited by the Prophet (SAW).

But the Prophet(SA) didn't have problem with the dialect(as he was given 7 style), there is no where he burnt any Quran copy or order his followers to burn Quran copy because of dialect?

You should know that during the Prophet's (SAW) life time, the Qur'an was written as it was revealed, the Prophet (SAW) had trusted scribes, who would in turn read what they had written for the Prophet (SAW) and if there was any mistake, the Prophet (SAW) corrected them. The whole Qur'an was written down on different materials, but was majorly memorized. Abu Bakr collected them into a single binding, with the aid of the scribes of the Prophet (SAW) and those who had memorized it. So yes, the Qur'an as we have it today is the same as what was revealed to the Prophet (SAW). If there happened to be a difference in the Qur'an the Prophet (SAW) recited to the companions, then it would have been easily spotted, and such reports would have been much. Allah (SWT) had promised to preserve the Qur'an, and so was the Qur'an preserved.

Why was the Quran not compiled during Prophet Muhammad's(SA) time?

I should repeat that the issue that lead to the standardization during the time of Uthman (RA) was that of recitation style, spelling and dialect which could become problematic in the future and not the content or meaning.

Who gave Uthman order?

You may take a look at the early copy of the Qur'an that was discovered on this thread:
https://www.nairaland.com/2009067/early-copy-quran-discovered

Uthman copy or which one?

tintingz:
These are my points.

- Why was Ali's compilation of Quran rejected by Umar and Abu Bakr?

- Where is the seven style Quran was revealed to Prophet Muhammad (SA) and why did Uthman has problem with Quran versions(dialect according to a brother) that makes him rewrite the Quran and burnt the other copies?

- Where is the original Quran copy written by the Prophet (SA) and are we reading the exact original text/message?

The original Quran copy written by the Prophet (saw) is the one we are reading today, so like I said it was memorized by all the sahabis so no one could hav changed it without them knowing.
Allah him self has said the Quran is well guarded so no body not even the prophet(saw) himself can alter it.

emekaRaj:


The original Quran copy written by the Prophet (saw) is the one we are reading today, so like I said it was memorized by all the sahabis so no one could hav changed it without them knowing.
Allah him self has said the Quran is well guarded so no body not even the prophet(saw) himself can alter it.

Were you there?

tintingz:
Why is this different from shia people?

You didn't answer my question, you made a claim and you haven't brought any evidence for it. What Shi'a people think or say, is irrelevant here.

tintingz:

But the Prophet(SA) didn't have problem with the dialect(as he was given 7 style), there is no where he burnt any Quran copy or order his followers to burn Quran copy because of dialect?

When it comes to the known styles of recitation, then that is still present till today, google is your friend. No Muslim caliph had problems with that.

tintingz:

Why was the Quran not compiled during Prophet Muhammad's(SA) time?

First thing you need to understand is that, the Qur'an was completely written down during the life time of the Prophet (SAW) and also memorized, some verses of the Qur'an refers to the Qur'an as a book, and even some statement of the Prophet (SAW). The issue of compilation became the responsibility of the Caliph after the demise of the Prophet (SAW), because apparently, there was no time for him to have done so, and he (SAW) couldn't have done it when still anticipating revelation prior to his death. Also, the Prophet (SAW) had prophesized that the Qur'an would reach some people after him in a form of a book (bounded) given credence to the actions of the caliphs after him.

tintingz:

Who gave Uthman order?

Islam is a religion of common sense and appropriate reasoning guided by revealed knowledge, not to mention that Allah (SWT) had promised to preserve the Qur'an, and therefore use these reputable companions of His beloved prophet (SAW) to achieve this.

tintingz:

Uthman copy or which one?

The Qur'an, the one revealed to the Prophet (SAW), which is still the same and would always be till the last day!

tintingz:
I thought you said Quran cannot be rewrite in another version.

I've read about him, i just want to show you how Quran can be rewrite like every other books.

Sorry, i had to take my time to go through few pages of his book and what scholars of Islam have said about it. I remember in 2008 to 2011 the book made headlines. Where the heck is it today?. In Garbage Bin.

The whole world of Islam would have recognized and would have usd it by now if it is indeed a credible version of Quran. Not even craziest sect of islam recognize it. Anis Shorrosh and his book so called "The True Furqan" are decimated. He simply tried his best to meet Quran challenge to produce the like of it (Quran) but he failed now. The Book is made up 77 chapters full of contradictions with plenty of derivations and deviations from the Holy Qur'an. It considering all kinds of contradictions and derivations of it from the Qur'an. According to the claim of the author of The True Furqan in opposition against the holy Qur'an and regarding the numerous contradictions and the extremely high amount of derivations, plagiarism and imitation from Qur'an in that book, the author’s failure in opposition against the holy Qur'an has been proved.

This short clip shamed Shorrosh's claims.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvtPoEiYOO4

Empiree:
Sorry, i had to take my time to go through few pages of his book and what scholars of Islam have said about it. I remember in 2008 to 2011 the book made headlines. Where the heck is it today?. In Garbage Bin.

The whole world of Islam would have recognized and would have usd it by now if it is indeed a credible version of Quran. Not even craziest sect of islam recognize it. Anis Shorrosh and his book so called "The True Furqan" are decimated. He simply tried his best to meet Quran challenge to produce the like of it (Quran) but he failed now. The Book is made up 77 chapters full of contradictions with plenty of derivations and deviations from the Holy Qur'an. It considering all kinds of contradictions and derivations of it from the Qur'an. According to the claim of the author of The True Furqan in opposition against the holy Qur'an and regarding the numerous contradictions and the extremely high amount of derivations, plagiarism and imitation from Qur'an in that book, the author’s failure in opposition against the holy Qur'an has been proved.

This short clip shamed Shorrosh's claims.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvtPoEiYOO4

- Oga, you claim the bible has versions because there is a gay bible and some other versions, al-furqan is a version of Quran, whether you accept it not it is not my problem, Christians don't accept the gay bible as well.

- You said the Quran cannot be rewrite in another version and I just showed it can rewrite. Anis shorrosh was not the author he was only the translator. The Al-furqan book is on amazon for people to buy.

sino:

You didn't answer my question, you made a claim and you haven't brought any evidence for it. What Shi'a people think or say, is irrelevant here.

Sorry, it is relevant as as long Ali is involve in my thread.

It is all over the internet, you can Google it yourself.

When it comes to the known styles of recitation, then that is still present till today, google is your friend. No Muslim caliph had problems with that.

Then why did Uthman has problem with it? Which copy did uthman burnt?

I'm not understanding.

First thing you need to understand is that, the Qur'an was completely written down during the life time of the Prophet (SAW) and also memorized, some verses of the Qur'an refers to the Qur'an as a book, and even some statement of the Prophet (SAW). The issue of compilation became the responsibility of the Caliph after the demise of the Prophet (SAW), because apparently, there was no time for him to have done so, and he (SAW) couldn't have done it when still anticipating revelation prior to his death. Also, the Prophet (SAW) had prophesized that the Qur'an would reach some people after him in a form of a book (bounded) given credence to the actions of the caliphs after him.

Bla bla bla, i know the story.

Lol, there was no time for the Prophet(SA) to compile the Quran? Is that suppose to be a joke? How many years does He used in prophet-hood?

Islam is a religion of common sense and appropriate reasoning guided by revealed knowledge, not to mention that Allah (SWT) had promised to preserve the Qur'an, and therefore use these reputable companions of His beloved prophet (SAW) to achieve this.

Lol, but it is innovation, a sin when I use my Comon sense.

There was no revelation for Uthman to burn and rewrite the Quran, nothing at all.

The Qur'an, the one revealed to the Prophet (SAW), which is still the same and would always be till the last day!

Which one, Muhammad (SA)'s own, Abu Bakr own or Uthman's own?

tintingz:
Sorry, it is relevant as as long Ali is involve in my thread.

It is all over the internet, you can Google it yourself.

I already pointed it out to you that Ali (RA) was consulted, he approved of the actions of his predecessors, and if that isn't enough as proof, then the fact that Ali (RA) was also a Caliph and didn't have any contrary opinion or remarks proves that he is in total agreement with their actions of compilation and standardization of the Qur'an. Some evidences for you:

‘Ali –may Allah be pleased with him- said:

“I see that we bring people to a single Mushaf so that there is neither division nor discord”. And we said, “An excellent proposal.” (Ibn Abi Dawud’s Kitab al-Masahif, Hadith 62. Classified as Sahih by Ibn Hajr in Fath al-Bari)

With regards to Uthman’s endeavors to make all people follow one manuscript ‘Ali –may Allah be pleased with him- said: “By Allah, if I were in charge of the affairs, I would have done what has been done.” (Kitabul Masahif, Hadith 62. Classified as Sahih by Dr. Wa’iz)

Source

Now, if anyone be him a Shi'a or whatever, make a claim, the above makes it irrelevant!

tintingz:

Then why did Uthman has problem with it? Which copy did uthman burnt?

I'm not understanding.

Mus’ab bin Sa’d reported: ‘Uthman delievered a sermon to the people and said: Your prophet did (just) fifteen years ago and you differ regarding Qur’an. Bring to me anything you have from the Qur’an that he heard from the Messenger of Allah –may Allah bless him. Then it started that a man would come to him with writing on pieces of board and shoulder-blades and parchments. So whoever came to him with something, he asked: “Did you hear this from the Messenger of Allah –may Allah bless him?” Then he asked, “Who is best in language among the people?” They said, “Sa’id bin al-‘As.” Then he asked, “Who is the best in writing among the people?” They said, “Zaid bin Thabit.” He said. “Then let Zaid write and Sa’id dictate.” And then he got the Musahif written and sent to various cities. And I did not see anyone objecting to it. (Kitabul Masahif, Hadith 67. Classified as Sahih by Dr. Muhibuddin Wa’iz)

The above narration shows that Uthman (RA) did consider everyone's writing of the Qur'an, it should be noted that Zaid bin Thabit(RA) was also one of the Prophet's (SAW) scribes and he had this to say:

Zaid bin Thabit -may Allah be pleased with him- who was in charge of both the endeavors testified that after making independent Mushaf during the time of ‘Uthman he compared it with what was prepared during Abu Bakr’s time and found them exactly similar. He said:

“I compared the Mushaf with those manuscripts; they did not differ in anything.” (Mushkil al-Athar, Hadith 2645)

When this was achieved, then other parchments and fragments of the Qur'an written by individuals became redundant, hence the burning.

tintingz:

Bla bla bla, i know the story.

Lol, there was no time for the Prophet(SA) to compile the Quran? Is that suppose to be a joke? How many years does He used in prophet-hood?

You do not publish a book when you are still writing, therefore, during the course of revelation, the Qur'an can only be written and not compiled together.

"The last verse that was revealed before the death of Prophet Muhammad (Sallallahu Alaihi wa Sallam) was {And be afraid of the Day when you shall be brought back to Allâh. …} [2: 281].
This issue is proved from Ibn Abu Hatim 's narration that reads: "The Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi wa Sallam) lived only for nine nights after revelation of these (above-mentioned) verses, and he died on Monday, the 2nd night of Rabi'" .
Allah knows best."
Source

tintingz:

Lol, but it is innovation, a sin when I use my Comon sense.

"Islam is a religion of common sense and appropriate reasoning guided by revealed knowledge"

tintingz:

There was no revelation for Uthman to burn and rewrite the Quran, nothing at all.

ditto

tintingz:

Which one, Muhammad (SA)'s own, Abu Bakr own or Uthman's own?

The Qur'an, the same revealed to the Prophet (SAW) as acknowledged by all the companions, including the trusted scribe of the Prophet (SAW).

tintingz:
- Oga, you claim the bible has versions because there is a gay bible and some other versions, al-furqan is a version of Quran, whether you accept it not it is not my problem, Christians don't accept the gay bible as well.

- You said the Quran cannot be rewrite in another version and I just showed it can rewrite. Anis shorrosh was not the author he was only the translator. The Al-furqan book is on amazon for people to buy.

Quran is not subject to revision, hence the reason Muslims stood up to it. Where is it today being used as REVISED QURAN of Muslims?. None. Then you can not it is another version of Quran because Muslim authority reject it and even banned in India contrary to other versions of the Bible which are granted legitimacy.

tintingz:
Thank you for this insight, I really appreciate.

If you create this thread for Allah's sake may he reward you, if otherwise may he guide you to the right path

tintingz:
.

This is what you called "version of quran"?. seriously? .

A Muslim reading this won't hesitate to throw it out outright even nominal Muslims.

Empiree:
This is what you called "version of quran"?. seriously? .

A Muslim reading this won't hesitate to throw it out outright even nominal Muslims.

Lol, you said gay bible is a version of the bible which 'He' is used as 'She', the Al-furqan is a mirror of the Quran but the opposite like supporting Christian teachings just like gay bible supporting homosexual.

No real christian with accept the gay bible.