FriendNG:


Whether you're the own who created it or not, the most important tin is you post what Demzy said in that thread.

What happen to it?

FriendNG:


Not the question but the questioner.

Op means opener of post.

No, wrong.

OP actually means Original Poster or Post. Who's the non academic student now.

This is really bad, page 2 and all we read so far are unreasonable comments.

FriendNG:


Op means opener of post.

Shut up! It's Original Poster. Opener ko, Pepsi opener ni

Rilwayne001:


Shut up! It's Original Poster. Opener ko, Pepsi opener ni

Lol, Don't mind him, and he will open his frog mouth to call someone NAS.

Rilwayne001:


Shut up! It's Original Poster. Opener ko, Pepsi opener ni

tintingz:
No, wrong.

OP actually means Original Poster or Post. Who's the non academic student now.

Which ever one it is. My earlier post remain valid that you're unreasonable.


Since Op means original poster then my post mean the original poster is unreasonable not the original post.

tintingz:
What happen to it?

You know better than I do.

tintingz:
“Verily, Allah sends astray whom He wills, and guides whom He wills.” [Quran 35:8]

“Then Allah misleads whom He wills and guides whom He wills.” [Quran 14:4]

“But He sends astray whom He wills and guides whom He wills.” [Quran 16:93]

^^^ From the verses above Allah is also responsible for people's misguidance.

This is misconception. HUmans have FREE WILL to believe or disbelieve in God. Surah 18:29, Surah 73:19 Surah 25:57 Surah 80:11-12


Now these verse show thos people who struggle to God's Path

Surah 29:69

As for those who strive in Us, We surely guide them to Our paths, and lo! Allah is with the good.


^^

Allah is clearly telling us that we need to struggle hard in order to find the path to God. Allah will only guide those who actually struggle to be guided. If God has already predetermined who would go to hell and heaven without giving us free will then it would be useless for Allah to tell us to strive to be good. So God guides those who strive and put an effort to want to be guided.



Surah 39:7

"If ye are thankless(disbelieve), yet Allah is Independent of you, though He is not pleased with thanklessness for His bondmen; and if ye are thankful He is pleased therewith for you. No laden soul will bear another's load. Then unto your Lord is your return; and He will tell you what ye used to do. Lo! He knoweth what is in the breasts (of men)."




^^^

Allah is saying that he is not pleased with those who are disbelieve (and rebel and thankless) to Him. It would not make sense for God to misguide those people intentionally without giving them free will so that they can go and do what He does not like.



Surah 45:22

And Allah hath created the heavens and the earth with truth, and that every soul may be repaid what it hath earned. And they will not be wronged


^^

So people will be judged according to their deeds. Allah does not have issues against them except for what they earned. They have free will

Empiree:
This is misconception. HUmans have FREE WILL to believe or disbelieve in God. Surah 18:29, Surah 73:19 Surah 25:57 Surah 80:11-12


Now these verse show thos people who struggle to God's Path

Surah 29:69

As for those who strive in Us, We surely guide them to Our paths, and lo! Allah is with the good.


^^

Allah is clearly telling us that we need to struggle hard in order to find the path to God. Allah will only guide those who actually struggle to be guided. If God has already predetermined who would go to hell and heaven without giving us free will then it would be useless for Allah to tell us to strive to be good. So God guides those who strive and put an effort to want to be guided.



Surah 39:7

"If ye are thankless(disbelieve), yet Allah is Independent of you, though He is not pleased with thanklessness for His bondmen; and if ye are thankful He is pleased therewith for you. No laden soul will bear another's load. Then unto your Lord is your return; and He will tell you what ye used to do. Lo! He knoweth what is in the breasts (of men)."




^^^

Allah is saying that he is not pleased with those who are disbelieve (and rebel and thankless) to Him. It would not make sense for God to misguide those people intentionally without giving them free will so that they can go and do what He does not like.



Surah 45:22

And Allah hath created the heavens and the earth with truth, and that every soul may be repaid what it hath earned. And they will not be wronged

^^

So people will be judged according to their deeds. Allah does not have issues against them except for what they earned. They have free will

Thank you sir,

Now this is a reasonable Muslim, why didn't you show up in time till it get to page 2, those sheeples have derail thread to page 2.

You missed a question, did Allah know those that will go to paradise and hell?

FriendNG:




Which ever one it is. My earlier post remain valid that you're unreasonable.


Since Op means original poster then my post mean the original poster is unreasonable not the original post.

Forget the poster, reply the post.

tintingz:
Thank you sir,


You missed a question, did Allah know those that will go to paradise and hell?

Here comes logical question that requires logical answer. It is normal for average person to ask what you asked. Thats part of reasoning faculty that Allah gave to us. That said, it only makes sense to give you analogy.


Allah didn't predestine Tintingz or any other person to hell or heaven. He knows in His vast knowledge that Mr. Tin who has a free will, will commit actions that will send him to hell (dont take it personal pls). He(Allah) doesn't dictate it. He is not forcing Mr. Tin to do bad deeds. His knowledge is so vast that He knows well in advance what Mr. Tin is going to do.

Here's an example. Not a good one but something that will clarify the logic.

Say Craig is your friend. He is walking down the street and runs into you. You both chat for a while. Then you ask Craig where he is going. He tells you that he is going to the other side of town. You tell him that the road he's taking is blocked, there's a fight between two groups and he will surely not be able to make it to the other side of town and will get hurt or- even worse- die. If he listens to you and trust you, he will change his mind. If he doesn't and continue the path you believe is dangerous, he will get hurt. Now do you think you were being unjust to your friend Craig? Do you think you were being tricky? Or was it more like Craig's own stupidity that sent him the path you both clearly knew was dangerous.

It's the same with our deeds. Allah (SWT) clearly tells us not to do certain things. To believe in him and always seek His forgiveness. But still we go our own way. We do what we think is right. And then when bad things happen to us or when we are punished for what we have done, we blame Allah (SWT) for it? I seek refuge in Allah.


It is not perfect analogy. I am sure of that. But you may as well request for a more logical analogy from "warosikhuna fil ilmi" Imran 7. But i dont have problem with your question.

tintingz:
Forget the poster, reply the post.

It will be useless replying the post. The poster will still challenge the answer in as far as it did not suit him or it did not come from his love friend.

Empiree,

Thanks for the enlightenment, it is somehow confusing tho but I gain something from your post.

So in conclusion, Allah does not mislead people?

Allah does not really know our ends?

tintingz:
“Verily, Allah sends astray whom He wills, and guides whom He wills.” [Quran 35:8]

“Then Allah misleads whom He wills and guides whom He wills.” [Quran 14:4]

“But He sends astray whom He wills and guides whom He wills.” [Quran 16:93]

^^^ From the verses above Allah is also responsible for people's misguidance.

if you reads the Quran in it proper context u will easily understand what these verses are saying.

»Surah 18:29«
Say: (It is) the truth from the Lord of you (all). Then whosoever will, let him believe, and whosoever will, let him disbelieve....

»Surah 25:57«
Say: I ask of you no reward for this, save that whoso will may choose a way unto his Lord.

»Surah 80:11-12«
Nay, but verily it is an Admonishment, So let whosoever will pay heed to it,

From d above verses we clearly see that people have a FREE WILL to believe or disbelieve in God and also have the FREE WILL to choose a path unto the Lord.

»Surah 29:69«
As for those who strive in Us, We surely guide them to Our paths, and lo! Allah is with the good.

God is clearly telling us that we need to struggle hard in order to find the path to God. Allah will only guide those who actually struggle to be guided. If God has already predetermined who would go to hell and heaven without giving us free will then it would be useless for Allah to tell us to strive to be good. So God guides those who strive and put an effort to want to be guided.

»Surah 39:7«
If ye are thankless, yet Allah is Independent of you, though He is not pleased with thanklessness for His bondmen; and if ye are thankful He is pleased therewith for you. No laden soul will bear another's load. Then unto your Lord is your return; and He will tell you what ye used to do. Lo! He knoweth what is in the breasts (of men).

Allah is saying that he is not pleased with those who are thankless to Him. It would not make sense for God to misguide those people intentionally without giving them free will so that they can go and do what He does not like.


»Surah 45:22«
And Allah hath created the heavens and the earth with truth, and that every soul may be repaid what it hath earned. And they will not be wronged.

God will judge those people according to the deeds that they have done and according to what they earned. They will not be judged unfairly.
So God judging them by what they earned shows that human beings have free will to do evil if they are judged to be evil and therefore it is no one's fault but theirs.

»Surah 6:116«
If thou obeyedst most of those on earth they would mislead thee far from Allah's way. They follow naught but an opinion, and they do but guess

So we see that Allah misguides those wrongdoers who are truly misguided by their own actions that they willingly chose to commit. Allah is omniscient and therefore knows in advance what their FREE WILLING actions will be. Therefore, Allah misguides them. HOWEVER, Allah only misguides those who WILLINGLY commit wrong and have earned to be labeled as disbelievers and go to Hell.

aminusanti:


God is clearly telling us that we need to struggle hard in order to find the path to God. Allah will only guide those who actually struggle to be guided. If God has already predetermined who would go to hell and heaven without giving us free will then it would be useless for Allah to tell us to strive to be good. So God guides those who strive and put an effort to want to be guided.


So we see that Allah misguides those wrongdoers who are truly misguided by their own actions that they willingly chose to commit. Allah is omniscient and therefore knows in advance what their FREE WILLING actions will be. Therefore, Allah misguides them. HOWEVER, Allah only misguides those who WILLINGLY commit wrong and have earned to be labeled as disbelievers and go to Hell.

Thank you very much for this.

aminusanti:


So we see that Allah misguides those wrongdoers who are truly misguided by their own actions that they willingly chose to commit. Allah is omniscient and therefore knows in advance what their FREE WILLING actions will be. Therefore, Allah misguides them. HOWEVER, Allah only misguides those who WILLINGLY commit wrong and have earned to be labeled as disbelievers and go to Hell.

Thank you sir.

Even tho i can see you and Empiree copied from same source.

This your last statement is confusing.

Allah knows in advance those that are doing wrong, and he add to their wrong doing(misleading them), is that what you're trying to say, correct me if I'm wrong.

tintingz:
Em.piree,

Thanks for the enlightenment, it is somehow confusing tho but I gain something from your post.

So in conclusion, Allah does not mislead people?

Allah does not really know our ends?

Pharaoh was a typical example. He transgressed ALL bounds by his free will. You know all sins are forgivable except sin of blasphemy(shirk). We read that he committed offenses despite Musa(as) admonitions. Allah could still forgive him even for killing his own until he ascribed DIVINITY to himself. That, Allah has zero tolerance for.

Was Allah responsible for everything he did?.

tintingz:
Thank you sir.

Even tho i can see you and Empiree copied from same source.

Welcme...
Is it wrong to copy from d same source sir? Are u asking for the answer or the source?

This your last statement is confusing.

Allah knows in advance those that are doing wrong, and he add to their wrong doing(misleading them), is that what you're trying to say, correct me if I'm wrong.

whats confusing there?

Empiree:
Pharaoh was a typical example. He transgressed ALL bounds by his free will. You know all sins are forgivable except sin of blasphemy(shirk). We read that he committed offenses despite Musa(as) admonitions. Allah could still forgive him even for killing his own until he ascribed DIVINITY to himself. That, Allah has zero tolerance for.

Was Allah responsible for everything he did?.

Pharaoh was responsible for his actions, Allah knows in advance what is going to happen(except you want to tell me he doesn't) and the Quran said Allah mislead people, why didn't Allah strike Pharaoh with thunder lightning from the begining to save the long story?, but can we say Allah added to pharaoh's misguidance since the Quran said the former?

Rilwayne001:


Thank you very much for this.

aminusanti:

Welcme...
Is it wrong to copy from d same source sir? Are u asking for the answer or the source?

No there is nothing wrong with, at least provide the link of the source.

whats confusing there?

OK, I'm doing bad things that will lead me to hell fire and Allah knows in advance the bad things I will be doing, is he responsible for more of the bad things I'm doing?(because you said it yourself that Allah misguide) If he's responsible for it then how will I be able to strive towards Allah's path?

The confusion there is "freewill", I'm not understanding the Quran type of freewill.

If you brothers(those replying the foolish one) don't understand the concept of Qadr properly I suggest you leave it so you don't fall into errors by his(the foolish one) nonsensical questions.......knowledge precedes speech and action....


Just an advice....

It will be obvious when you see a sincere learner, a sincere learner is humble and not arrogant....

How does he intend to understand a topic that is delicate as this when he has refused to understand basics of Islam with his useless arrogance?

Misplaced priority.....

tintingz:
Pharaoh was responsible for his actions, Allah knows in advance what is going to happen(except you want to tell me he doesn't) and the Quran said Allah mislead people, why didn't Allah strike Pharaoh with thunder lightning from the begining to save the long story?, but can we say Allah added to pharaoh's misguidance since the Quran said the former?

Let me ask you this....the way you are talking right now, are you saying everything by your free will or what?

Empiree:
Pharaoh was a typical example. He transgressed ALL bounds by his free will. You know all sins are forgivable except sin of blasphemy(shirk). We read that he committed offenses despite Musa(as) admonitions. Allah could still forgive him even for killing his own until he ascribed DIVINITY to himself. That, Allah has zero tolerance for.

Was Allah responsible for everything he did?.

Do you know if Firaun has asked Allah forgiveness from Shirk at the Right time he would have forgive him ?

Allah forgive shirk.

FriendNG:


Do you know if Firaun has asked Allah forgiveness from Shirk at the Right he would have forgive him ?

You better leave that Sufi that knows nothing except dancing and singing in their so called "group dhikr"

Empiree:
Let me ask you this....the way you are talking right now, are you saying everything by your free will or what?

I believe everything I'm doing is by my freewill or else I won't be asking this question someone is already calling "nonsense and foolish one". I guess All knows I'm the foolish one, who's responsible for my foolishness?.

AbdelKabir:


You better leave that Sufi that knows nothing except dancing and singing in their so called "group dhikr"

. And tinz has not disappoint me. Behaving exactly the way I and Demzy alleged.

AbdelKabir:
If you brothers(those replying the foolish one) don't understand the concept of Qadr properly I suggest you leave it so you don't fall into errors by his(the foolish one) nonsensical questions.......knowledge precedes speech and action....


Just an advice....

Who's misleading me to my foolishness Mr deluded sheeple.?

Anyways, my nonsensical question is actually helping some people here. Kindly swerve .

AbdelKabir:
If you brothers(those replying the foolish one) don't understand the concept of Qadr properly I suggest you leave it so you don't fall into errors by his(the foolish one) nonsensical questions.......knowledge precedes speech and action....


Just an advice....

You can always make your point without adding insult, or rather keep shut if you know you can't.

Just my 2kobo.

I don't know who the arrogant is in this thread, is it the one that just bash in like a newly psychopath and started calling the OP the foolish one?

tintingz:
Who's misleading me to my foolishness Mr deluded sheeple.?

Anyways, my nonsensical question is actually helping some people here. Kindly swerve .

It can only help non academic students.