alBHAGDADI:
Your lack of understanding of the Bible is what's bothering you. When Christ was on earth, he lived under the law. When he died and resurrected, the law passed away automatically. That's why the curtain covering the Holies of Holies tore open. People now had access to God directly, unlike when they had to go through a priest. Sacrifices of lambs became obsolete as Jesus Christ became the lamb once and for all. He couldn't have said he came to abolish the law when he was still under it. But the moment he died, he became free from the law and his resurrection freed others too. Even before his death and resurrection, he gave hints as to why the law would be obsolete- preventing the mob from stoning the adulterous woman according to the law. Remember how he ordered against an eye for an eye?

i wonder how you christian play ludo with ur scriptures without any shame... this is a perfect example of how you people do not read the bible. just cherry pick what you want so you can have bacon sandwiches and claim jesus has already covered the sins for you...it is same as you people are living a lawless life and believing already jesus died for your sins.. why do we still have sin if jesus truly died for it?? you will be held accountable for each soul that you have deceived. You say that fulfill means "Abolish;" because, you are ignorant and confused at once. This is what "fulfill" means by scriptural definition: from Greek Word: "to make full, to fill up, i.e. to fill to the full" This has not one thing about doing away with any single Law or Commandment - but - to preach it to the fullness so that
you could even follow it yourself.

Consider the following incident mentioned in the Bible:

"And behold, one came and said unto him, ‘Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?’

And he said unto him, ‘Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.’ "
[The Bible, Mathew 19:16-17]

Jesus (pbuh) did not say that to have the eternal life of paradise, man should believe in him as Almighty God or worship him as God, or believe that Jesus (pbuh) would die for his sins. On the contrary he said that the path to salvation was through keeping the commandments. It is indeed striking to note the difference between the words of Jesus Christ (pbuh) and the Christian dogma of salvation through the sacrifice of Jesus (pbuh).

And where do the words of Christ command such? Whoever does contrary to his words do such in his own accord.

*double standard
you cant say that to islam due to too much hate huh?
non of you can prove anything from the scriptures that support all your empty claims, all you are bz doing was to use countries as your proofs..if you dont consider OT as part of your scriptures when it comes to killing then allow the other xtian terrorist groups that knws it meaning use it..

The God of Moses is the same one who came down to earth. This was prophecied by all the prophets including Moses.

thats not what am asking you here sir! you can carry on believing God came down to earth and was nailed on the cross for your sins, its all your own cup of sayi, a day will surely come when you will be ask for not using your brain..

if am understanding this here, you are saying Jesus/God/Yahweh suddenly stops being barbaric when it comes to christian era? why would jesus exempt xtians from the mosaic laws? are you also saying GOD is at fault for being barbaric to the Israelite? or are those the sins that jesus/yahweh/God came down to earth to kill himself for??

hebrews 10:1

New Living Translation
The old system under the law of Moses was only a shadow, a dim preview of the good things to come, not the good things themselves. The sacrifices under that system were repeated again and again, year after year, but they were never able to provide perfect cleansing for those who came to worship.


that was why God came down in flesh to end the sacrifice of lambs so as to redeem mankind once and for all.

John 1:2

The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

just look at how you pple are gambling with your next life...this part is what turn millions from xtianity to being atheist if they couldnt find islam.. May God save you.

Thats cos you guys failed to acknowledge the sacrifice of Jesus Christ which abolished and freed us from the law and traditions of old which were a curse, you just kept clinging on to them.

Galatians 3:13
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us--for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE"--

But since Muslims still hold on to the law, they have made themselves accursed.

ok

kkins25:

Anytime you want to rebuke a muslim for genocide the muslim quickly goes to the old Testament to support his action. They use the old Testament to justify the killings that is done in the name of Allah. I mean allah..

why is the OT part of your Scriptures then? or is it suppose to be in the Quran??

true2god:
It is surprising that Nigerian Muslims seem to have more understanding of Islam than the numerous sheiks and ulamas in Saudi Arabia, the home of Islam and the country that hosts the yearly pilgrimage of hajj. It is shocking that a country, that is Nigeria, that experienced Islam for less than 250 years would want to lecture the country where Islam originated from, that is Saudi Arabia, their ancestral religion. That's the height or arrogance and ignorance, on the part of Nigerian or black Muslims. The Saudis will be smiling at your ignorance and arrogance.

you are very smart bro. i can also see how the jewish people are also following the teachings of jesus and bible as a whole..

aminusanti:

you are very smart bro. i can also see how the jewish people are also following the teachings of jesus and bible as a whole..

lols

ilynem:

My friend. Good day to you. I hope the fasting is going well? Please pray for Allah's blessings for us all. I have to say, I admire you. I sincerely do. You really see Islam from the lenses of a good man. I know its hard and annoying for people (who you believe know little about your religion) to come and bash it for the wrong reasons.

thanks alot and appreciated .. how have u been? longest time!

But also you should try taking of your Muslim tinted glasses for a while. Below is a screen grab of statistics conducted by Pew research on the percentage of Muslims who believe in Killing of apostates. So your argument of "few" Muslims believing in it is wrong. Now please study the data below and notice that the countries with the highest percentage are those countries who practice Islam more keenly. Look at high percentage for Egypt, Jordan, Pakistan and Afghanistan. But low percentage for the likes of Turkey. I heard that Turkey is known as the most westernized Islamic country in the world where women even wear bikinis (dunno how true this is to be honest). So you can agree with me that those with low percentage are practicing what I will call the watered down kinda Islam. Not the TRUE ISLAM. Now notice that Saudi Arabia the home of Islam isn't even taken into account. Killing of Apostasy is keenly practiced there. Go on twitter and follow Ex Muslim TV and see many people who have fled Saudi for their lives because they have decided to dump their faith. Honestly though, can I live in Saudi and practice another faith? Is that even possible?? Sir, I really really want Islam to be what you preach, but unfortunately many of your scholars do not agree with you. That is why they are scholars and you are here arguing on Nairaland. The only scholars who will say otherwise are the ones on the internet trying to get the public on the side of Islam.

honestly you are blindly following this argument without full understanding, you can carry on posting all those fake media analysis images but the initial arguments was to prove this using the quranic scriptures by giving us the context of your claims or share with us few scholars as you claimed that support the apostasy law here lets see
*why is it you people always give ref with saudi arabia as the origin of islam? Do jerusalem and the jewish people represent or follow xtianity as expected?

...as for the few countries like saudi that follow that law they dont just kill people for leaving islam it usually happens if the apostate spread lies or rumors against the religion or the islamic state/country in other to cause issues which fall into the category of the propehet mohammad (SAW)hadith for killing people that only embrace and leave or just leave in other to course confusion but the problem is you people will digest whatever comes to your ear if it's about islam without any further findings...what is the punishment for treason in most countries?

my reason for saying fake analysis is bcus in most of the countries you mentioned above they dont apply those law in their countries and even if they do maybe just some certain regions or tribe within use those laws but not the country as whole. countries like Indonesia (aceh), Malaysia, Thailand and Kazakhstan and some others they dont have this laws. long ago i lived and work in all these countries that i mentioned and currently i am living n working in Indonesia. there is no such law as you pple are blindly claiming, that research is only showing you how maybe how some muslim use to take judgement into their own hands by killing the apostate but not the government...here are my proofs that will prove ur analysis to be fake.. read the link below and also the screen shots.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bel4y3zhkdc
(Dr. Shabir Ally ~ Do countries such as saudi arabia represent true islamic way of life?)

Then you mentioned that the only time it was mentioned to Muhammad was only if people convert to Islam and then try to leave again, right? Now Islam was new in the time of Muhammad. Very few people where born Muslims. Or the ones who were born into the faith where probably even still young. Most Muslims were converts. From Judaism, Christianity and Pagan practices. So essentially, if anyone at all was to leave Islam, he must have been formally a Jew, a Christian, or a Pagan. You get my point? In the end, it is kill anyone who leaves Islam because few were born into it at that time and every Muslim then was a convert from other religions. Get the point?

sorry not clear! whats ur question here pls?

Finally you quoted the Bible and then blamed us for not understanding when the meaning of what you quoted was in that scripture and still you didn't pick it up. Let me break it down for you. I don't want to go into root Greek words, so I will just explain it plainly for you to see.
Matthew 5: 17-18 says :Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
(18) For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
I want you to notice the bolded. I will ask you one question. Was Jesus a failure? Because like my other thread about Allah aiding Christianity, you Muslims claim you respect and love Jesus but your teachings keep pointing to Him as a failure. So the question is, is the law of moses still binding today?
Let us take verse 17. Jesus says he didn't come to Destroy the law but to Fulfill it. I would have explained the Greek root word of "destroy" but let's not go that deep. Now notice, Jesus said He has come to Fulfill the Law! I repeat, Fulfill the law!
Now verse 18. Jesus says the law shall not pass until it is fulfilled. But Jesus came to Fulfill it. So if Jesus has fulfilled the law, then... I will leave u to complete that.
But if you say Jesus didn't fulfill the law and that the law is still binding, then you are calling Jesus a failure because He said He was on earth to fulfill it. So you people need to stop calling Jesus a prophet of Islam because all your teachings point to Jesus as a failure. But if you say Jesus is not a failure, then He actually fulfilled the Law which means, it is no longer binding.
As-salamu alaykum Brother.

This is what "fulfill" means by scriptural definition: from Greek Word: "to make full, to fill up, i.e. to fill to the full" This has not one thing about doing away with any single Law or Commandment..thats arguement for another day, anytime u r ready just notify me pls..
No single doubt the Jesus in your scripture(paul edition) is a failure, there are are alot of lies, contradictions, unfulfilled prophesies and error all attributed to jesus by the authors of your scripture which we muslims cant believe is from God Almighty. anytime you are ready i can open a thread for that i will detail all for you to address..

PS: If the God of moses is the same God Muhammad and Muslims claim to worship, are you not to follow the laws of the Torah, which supports killing of apostates?
doesn't that just mean it is allowed in Islam?

most of the law that were given to the prophets b4 prophet Muhammad (SAW) were only meant to be followed for particular time period and for a reason and it was never mentioned in the Quran to kill any apostate but some of the hadiths of the prophet mohammad (SAW)it was mentioned but if you read my prev post carefully you will see where i explained it in details..
*Now can you prove to us using any islmic scriptures in it context and show us where killing of apostate is encourage?

Wow! This has been interesting so far. The Bible part caught my attention, as I don't go about studying an unprofitable book, the Koran(altho', I do, a little).



Now, lemme quickly bring this forth. I know Moslems don't like Apostle Paul's Epistles. Hehehehe. So, for a short while, I won't bring them in. (wink).


The Law, as we all know, is God's word delivered to the Israeli Nation thru Moses. It contains rules, regulations and instructions by which they(the Israeli nation) should live.

But, however, the Law was not to remain permanently.


Long before Jesus declared His Mission for the Law(i.e to fulfill it), Isaiah had told us what would happen to the Law when it's fulfilled.

Isaiah 55:11 "so shall my word be that goes forth out of my mouth: it shall not return to me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the things whereto I sent it." . . . . .to be continued.

Having read that, I know you didn't see anything of use to you there. (smiles).

Ok! Comman see what's there.

That verse shows us how God's word(the Law, and all God's word) operates.

i. It's sent out.
ii. It accomplishes it's purpose.
iii. And after that, it returns back to God.

Notice: "it shall not return to me VOID", that means, God's Word will certainly return to Him, but not VOID(that means, after it's fulfilled).

Having said this, I'm glad that this my Moslem friend brought the verse that would finish him. (smiles).

Matthew 5:17-18 Tells us that Jesus has come to fulfill the Law.

Infact, what I've explained above, helps us to understand verse 18 better.

Where Jesus said, "the Law will not pass away, until it's fulfilled"

That means, "the Law will pass away when it's fulfilled"

I'm spoon feeding you. (big grin). Hope you're enjoying it? (smiles).

. . .to be continued.

Now, the question is, did Jesus fulfill the Law?

All Moslems attests to this fact that Jesus fulfilled the Law.

Wow! What a relief! seems I won't have to prove it since they already agree with me on this part.

But chai, to further show that it's not an empty claim, lemme show it. (big grin).

In Matthew 27:50-51 shows us what happened exactly when Jesus fulfilled the Law.

"Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost (this is where he fulfilled the Law---lukat what happened next) 'and, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth died quake, and the rocks rent;"



Have you read that? I know you read it tho' but yet didn't find anything interesting/meaningful to you.

How can you then claim to understand anything from the Bible? (sick)

Ok- Ceeam! Where that veil cover is the part of the temple which is called 'the most holy place". This part is only accessible by the High Priest, and that, once a year. . . . . . . to be continued.

That's where the Ark Of Covenant is kept. Anyone else who accesses the Most Holy Place, apart from the High Priest dies. And even the High Priest only access it once a year, on the Day Of Atonement.

In summary, The Most Holy Place is the power Room of the Law where nobody is allowed to look into, except the High Priest's once a year visit.

Are you getting something now?

The Curtain rented. many people would have taken the oportunity to gaze into the room, wondering, "what's in this room sef?"

From this event onward, The Most Holy Place is Never said to hold any power anymore.


What strengthen/upheld the Law had gone!

So, yes! Jesus fulfilled The Law. And The Law has returned to God.


Thank You Jesus!! . . . . . . . . . . . .to be continued.

But wait...wait...wait...wait....I be olodo when it comes to religion, but errr..wasn't Jesus talking about the 10 commandments "Law of GOD" in Matthew 5:17-18? ....the "Law of Moses" was founded on the "Law of GOD" but does that necessarily mean 10 commandments = Law of Moses?
Aminu quoted Deuteronomy , which is written by Moses after remixing the 10 commandments, but was Christ referring to this(Moses Law) or God's laws in Exodus?

Brings me to the next question, one of the 10 commandments is "thou shall not kill" which is contrary to what Moses had written in deuteronomy , ...and if Moses had said to kill isn't that going against God's law? meaning Moses don break law like the original G ....correct me if I'm wrong Christians are not followers of Moses, otherwise they will be known as Mosestians.....and if Christ referred to "THE LAW" I would think he meant the 10 commandments ....no?
I think a lot of text has been misinterpreted from one generation to another or maybe context has been lost through translation...but what do I know ...kontinue...

Sorry to displease you, but I've to quote some Epistles now (big grin).

Apostle Paul understanding what I've explained above, by the Spirit, said, "for Christ is the END of the Law for righteousness to everyone that believes" (Romans 10:4).

Hehehehehe. No wonder these guys dey beef Apostle Paul.

To add to: you mention the "Good Master" acct in Matthew 19:17-19 but you ommitted verse 21. How unfair!

And na you come hia kon dey emphasize on "context, context, context". You try sha.

But I won't bother explaining that one to you 'cause you can't understand it. You know why?

Babu Holy Sphirit in you.

aminusanti:

thanks alot and appreciated .. how have u been? longest time!

honestly you are blindly following this argument without full understanding, you can carry on posting all those fake media analysis images but the initial arguments was to prove this using the quranic scriptures by giving us the context of your claims or share with us few scholars as you claimed that support the apostasy law here lets see
*why is it you people always give ref with saudi arabia as the origin of islam? Do jerusalem and the jewish people represent or follow xtianity as expected?

...as for the few countries like saudi that follow that law they dont just kill people for leaving islam it usually happens if the apostate spread lies or rumors against the religion or the islamic state/country in other to cause issues which fall into the category of the propehet mohammad (SAW)hadith for killing people that only embrace and leave or just leave in other to course confusion but the problem is you people will digest whatever comes to your ear if it's about islam without any further findings...what is the punishment for treason in most countries?

my reason for saying fake analysis is bcus in most of the countries you mentioned above they dont apply those law in their countries and even if they do maybe just some certain regions or tribe within use those laws but not the country as whole. countries like Indonesia (aceh), Malaysia, Thailand and Kazakhstan and some others they dont have this laws. long ago i lived and work in all these countries that i mentioned and currently i am living n working in Indonesia. there is no such law as you pple are blindly claiming, that research is only showing you how maybe how some muslim use to take judgement into their own hands by killing the apostate but not the government...here are my proofs that will prove ur analysis to be fake.. read the link below and also the screen shots.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bel4y3zhkdc
(Dr. Shabir Ally ~ Do countries such as saudi arabia represent true islamic way of life?)
sorry not clear! whats ur question here pls?
This is what "fulfill" means by scriptural definition: from Greek Word: "to make full, to fill up, i.e. to fill to the full" This has not one thing about doing away with any single Law or Commandment..thats arguement for another day, anytime u r ready just notify me pls..
No single doubt the Jesus in your scripture(paul edition) is a failure, there are are alot of lies, contradictions, unfulfilled prophesies and error all attributed to jesus by the authors of your scripture which we muslims cant believe is from God Almighty. anytime you are ready i can open a thread for that i will detail all for you to address..


most of the law that were given to the prophets b4 prophet Muhammad (SAW) were only meant to be followed for particular time period and for a reason and it was never mentioned in the Quran to kill any apostate but some of the hadiths of the prophet mohammad (SAW)it was mentioned but if you read my prev post carefully you will see where i explained it in details..
*Now can you prove to us using any islmic scriptures in it context and show us where killing of apostate is encourage?

I will make this short. I have pilling work but Nairaland keeps pulling me. Lol. Pew research isn't "fake media analysis". I think you should look Pew research up. Secondly, I never stated that those countries having killing of apostates as laws. That data are a percentage of people in those countries who want killing of apostates as a law. Definitely those countries can't have killing of apostates as a law. The international community will frown at it. But they have individual Muslims who want it to be law. You will agree with me that having that many people who will want to kill Aminusanti if he ever dares to leave Islam is actually scary to say the least. They don't do it, because their hands are tied.
Well, we don't refer to Saudi Arabia as true representatives of Islam because that was where Islam started. We refer to it because it is regarded as your most holy land. It has the Kabba, the most holy temple and mecca the most holy city (where unbelievers can't even step into). You all are commanded to go there every year for the Hajj. So the people leaving in that Holy city has to practice real Islam ya? Muslims even pray facing the direction of Mecca, is it not? ERM...As a Christian, God lives in me. The only reason I will want to go to Jerusalem is for sight seeing and touring. Not because I feel God is closer to me whenever I go there.
And it seems like you really know how to get me. You bring up Dr Ally Shabir! I am not ashamed to see I love that man. And if every Muslim was like Dr Shabir, then I will definitely think different about your religion. He is one of those internet Muslims I talked about, wanting to get the public on Islam's side by presenting it in a good light. And I really wish more Muslims where like like him and like you sir, but guess what? That's not the case. And why? Let's not go into that.
And Trust me, Saudi kills for just leaving Islam. Forget the spreading of rumour part and lies and please be honest with yourself. Everyday I watch videos of people who fled for their lives. They didn't run because they spread rumours and lies, they ran because they left their religion.
And please I will love you to open that thread. I will be patiently waiting. Its a good thing we will be discussing about the Bible for the first time and not the Koran. I will really love to show you the power of the Gospel sir.
Finally, if you realize that the laws of Moses were applicable to only the Jews at that time, then why do you all keep dragging it in our faces

@TAEpiphany

The answer is not too far.

Words evolve. Infact, languages entirely. Take for example the words "miss", "missus(mrs)", "mz" etc. These words have evolved overtime.

In the OT, the term "the Law" refers only to the Pentateuch (the Torah, more precisely).

But during the time of the NT, the term has evolved to mean "the whole of the OT" as we can see NT writers using the term to refer to "the Prophets" also.

1Corinthians 14:21 "in the LAW it is written. . .". . . . . . This quotes the Prophet Isaiah and refer to his book as "the Law". See: Isaiah 28:11-12.


Having said that, when Jesus said he had come to 'fulfill the Law' it's obvious he meant, he has come to fulfill the OT, not the 10Commandments only.

ilynem:

I will make this short. I have pilling work but Nairaland keeps pulling me. Lol...

Thnx for ur time n really Appreciate ur effort

Pew research isn't "fake media analysis". I think you should look Pew research up. ,,[ /quote]
I knw Pew very well but the analysis u pasted is not even close to wat we r discussing, did u notice?
[quote]
Secondly, I never stated that those countries having killing of apostates as laws. That data are a percentage of people in those countries who want killing of apostates as a law. Definitely those countries can't have killing of apostates as a law.

thats what I expect you to say in ur prev post..why is it hard for you people to accept the fact by judging islam based on the scriptures not the act of it followers??
If Islam truly encourage Muslims to kill disbelievers is also the same way ur scriptures enjoins it's followers to kill unbelievers as well, that is if you take those verses in the old testament out of context like you are doing to the Quran.

The international community will frown at it. But they have individual Muslims who want it to be law. You will agree with me that having that many people who will want to kill Aminusanti if he ever dares to leave Islam is actually scary to say the least. They don't do it, because their hands are tied.

again thats not from the scriptures but some followers ideologies

Well, we don't refer to Saudi Arabia as true representatives of Islam because that was where Islam started. We refer to it because it is regarded as your most holy land. It has the Kabba, the most holy temple and mecca the most holy city (where unbelievers can't even step into). You all are commanded to go there every year for the Hajj.

hajj is only commanded once in a life time if one can afford it but if one can afford going every year then its a + for him/her..

So the people leaving in that Holy city has to practice real Islam ya? Muslims even pray facing the direction of Mecca, is it not? ERM

Facing mecca/kaaba is only for the unity, the same in your case how u people go to church on sunday, praying in the same format maybe by closing your eyes..

...As a Christian, God lives in me. The only reason I will want to go to Jerusalem is for sight seeing and touring. Not because I feel God is closer to me whenever I go there.

*why do u hve to go to church for prayers despite knowing God is in you??
As a muslim We feel honoured and proud to be the slaves of Allaah, the One, the Self-Sufficient Master, Who begets not nor was He begotten, and there is none co-equal or comparable unto Him; He is our Lord and we have no Lord besides Him. Hence we respond to the commands of our Lord with the utmost humility and submit to His commands, for we know that He is the All-Wise and no wisdom is greater than His. We know that He is the Most-Merciful and there is none more merciful than Him, may He be glorified and praised. Hence we love Him in a way that demands that we obey His commands even if that is somewhat difficult for us.

pls try to understand d purpose of visiting mecca/ hajj, n facing of kaaba..

Unity
One of the fundamental principles of Islamic Spirituality is the Principle of Unity, derived from tawheed — oneness. Islam teaches that not only is the Creative Power, God, Allah Almighty, One, but so is all of creation and thus all of humanity.

Perhaps in no other spiritual or religious event is this more evident than in the Hajj in Mecca, during which millions of Muslims set aside all differences of race, caste, economic status, nationality, and even sect as they unite in the holy pilgrimage, each donning the simple two-piece white garb of the non-attached traveler, allowing nearly no apparent difference whatsoever between men as they stand together in the Divine Presence of their Creator.

And it seems like you really know how to get me. You bring up Dr Ally Shabir! I am not ashamed to see I love that man. And if every Muslim was like Dr Shabir, then I will definitely think different about your religion. He is one of those internet Muslims I talked about, wanting to get the public on Islam's side by presenting it in a good light. And I really wish more Muslims where like like him and like you sir, but guess what? That's not the case. And why? Let's not go into that.

my good friend in dis info age dat we r in now its not so hard to differenciate truth from falsehood unless one want to delibrrately ignorant.

And Trust me, Saudi kills for just leaving Islam. Forget the spreading of rumour part and lies and please be honest with yourself. Everyday I watch videos of people who fled for their lives. They didn't run because they spread rumours and lies, they ran because they left their religion.
And please I will love you to open that thread. I will be patiently waiting. Its a good thing we will be discussing about the Bible for the first time and not the Koran. I will really love to show you the power of the Gospel sir.

alright sure i wll do so and invite u

Finally, if you realize that the laws of Moses were applicable to only the Jews at that time, then why do you all keep dragging it in our faces

I would say d same in d case of islam..why is it you pple attribute all sort of negativity to islam with or without proof? Be fair in ur judgement even if u hate d religion or it followers..

If Islam truly encourage Muslims to kill disbelievers is also the same way ur scriptures encourage it's followers to kill unbelievers as well, that is if you take those verses in the old testament out of context like you are doing to the Quran.

aminusanti:

Thnx for ur time n really Appreciate ur effort

So if all these people think Killing apostates is the right thing, there are only two options.
1. It is actually correct according to Islam which means there something wrong with your religion.
2. You have some really terrible teachers giving these people the wrong ideas about your faith.
Any which way, its a problem that people like you need to fix. If more people like you can speak out and educate the ignorant once, then maybe your religion will been seen in good light. But guess what? Even those who know the "truth" don't even border to speak up and educate the ignorant once. Instead they spend all their energy trying to educate us (who apparently know nothing about your religion) when your effort is needed else where.
Now let's talk about "out of context" for a while. You usual claim is that when we quote violent passages in the Koran, we do it out of context. So, Sura 9 was probably the last verse revealed to Muhammad (correct me if I am wrong). Muslims where already the majority in Mecca and most places then. So they weren't fighting any sought of defensive war at that time. I will love you to explain to me, how I quote the following passages out of context.
Koran 9:28—O ye who believe! Truly the Pagans are unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the Sacred Mosque. And if ye fear poverty, soon will Allah enrich you, if He wills, out of His bounty, for Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise.

Koran 9:29—Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth, from among the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

Koran 9:30—The Jews call Uzair a son of God, and the Christians call Christ the son of God. That is a saying from their mouth; (In this) they but imitate what the Unbelievers of old used to say. Allah’s curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

Koran 9:31—They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of Allah, and (they take as their Lord) Christ, the son of Mary; yet they were commanded to worship but One God: there is no god but He. Praise and glory to Him: (Far is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him).

Koran 9:32—Fain would they extinguish Allah’s Light with their mouths, but Allah will not allow but that His Light should be perfected, even though the Unbelievers may detest (it).

Koran 9:33—It is He Who hath sent His Messenger with Guidance and the Religion of Truth, to prevail it over all religion, even though the Pagans may detest (it).
I really do not see how people can explain this as none violent. Verse 29 says, "fight those who do not believe in Allah or the last day". Not those who attack you. Or persecute you. Fight them for not believing. How out of context is that?
Verse 139 even says " fight those unbelievers that are near you and let them find in you hardness." This is actually a command to fight your neighbors and let them see hardness in you. Still struggling to see how this is quoted out of context.
Now let's look at Sahil Muslim.
Sahih Muslim 30—Muhammad said: “I have been commanded to fight against people so long as they do not declare that there is no god but Allah.”
Here is Muhammad saying he will fight people UNTIL THEY SAY THERE IS NO GOD BUT ALLAH. That is, if i don't believe in Allah, Muhammad should fight me till I declare there is no God but Allah. Not because I am fighting Muhammad but simply because I don't believe.

Wanted to send this in The thread u plan to open but recalled we will be talking about the Bible. Not the Koran. So I sent it here. If all these things I have quoted don't mean what we all think they are, doesn't that make Allah a very bad communicator??

tollyboy5:

EVEN JESUS IS FAKE

I think you need to you a psychiatrist cause virtually every religion acknowledged Jesus. Or you want to start a new one?

Ken4Christ:


I think you need to you a psychiatrist cause virtually every religion acknowledged Jesus. Or you want to start a new one?

So your logic here is that because all religion acknowledges Jesus that makes him real? will that also make their descriptions of him real also?

Deicide:

So your logic here is that because all religion acknowledges Jesus that makes him real? will that also make their descriptions of him real also?

Every Historian and theologian who has studied the life of Jesus know that He is real.

Going by the title if this thread, I'd have gone on to respond to this thread with maturity as requested by the OP , but he's immature himself and a hypocrite.


You guys don't even understand your own Bible , how can you claim you know the Quran and hadith ?



I'm fasting, so I won't use the right insult on you kids for now.

ilynem:

Every Historian and theologian who has studied the life of Jesus know that He is real.

Are you trying to answer my question or make a point?

ilynem:

So if all these people think Killing apostates is the right thing, there are only two options.
1. It is actually correct according to Islam which means there something wrong with your religion.
2. You have some really terrible teachers giving these people the wrong ideas about your faith.

Today a person can only be ignorant of facts if he/she chose to be and as for anyone who choose to apply no sense n sincerity when learning he/she will surely stand in front of our creator to defend himself alone one day..

Any which way, its a problem that people like you need to fix. If more people like you can speak out and educate the ignorant once, then maybe your religion will been seen in good light.

you just dnt know but people are doing their level best out there to speak out n educate the ignorant once but one can not help those that are not ready to help themselves and in every religion we have these set of people...take NL for example how many sincere people will you find that are ready to accept facts even if its as clear as day?

But guess what? Even those who know the "truth" don't even border to speak up and educate the ignorant once. Instead they spend all their energy trying to educate us (who apparently know nothing about your religion) when your effort is needed else where.

as i said above, people are different some do and some don't and to educate people of other faith it is not a waste of effort it's equally important as well because today the way the media is bombarding people with negative/wrong msg on islam it's really too much and it can lead to serious conflict if care is not taken...so awareness and enlightening people is very important sir.

Now let's talk about "out of context" for a while. You usual claim is that when we quote violent passages in the Koran, we do it out of context. So, Sura 9 was probably the last verse revealed to Muhammad (correct me if I am wrong). Muslims where already the majority in Mecca and most places then. So they weren't fighting any sought of defensive war at that time. I will love you to explain to me, how I quote the following passages out of context.

Koran 9:28—O ye who believe! Truly the Pagans are unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the Sacred Mosque. And if ye fear poverty, soon will Allah enrich you, if He wills, out of His bounty, for Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise.

Koran 9:29—Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth, from among the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

Koran 9:30—The Jews call Uzair a son of God, and the Christians call Christ the son of God. That is a saying from their mouth; (In this) they but imitate what the Unbelievers of old used to say. Allah’s curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

Koran 9:31—They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of Allah, and (they take as their Lord) Christ, the son of Mary; yet they were commanded to worship but One God: there is no god but He. Praise and glory to Him: (Far is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him).

Koran 9:32—Fain would they extinguish Allah’s Light with their mouths, but Allah will not allow but that His Light should be perfected, even though the Unbelievers may detest (it).

Koran 9:33—It is He Who hath sent His Messenger with Guidance and the Religion of Truth, to prevail it over all religion, even though the Pagans may detest (it).
I really do not see how people can explain this as none violent. Verse 29 says, "fight those who do not believe in Allah or the last day". Not those who attack you. Or persecute you. Fight them for not believing. How out of context is that?
Verse 139 even says " fight those unbelievers that are near you and let them find in you hardness." This is actually a command to fight your neighbors and let them see hardness in you. Still struggling to see how this is quoted out of context.

Who are the unbelievers these verses are talking about?
they are those non-believers that use to pretend to be muslim when they are with the muslim but behind their back they plot against them..
This verse doesn’t ask the Muslims to do mindless slaughter as the media portrays or deceives. It gives the Muslims the permission to fight only those non-Muslims who do not pay jizya – the state tax. And we all know that jizya is applicable only in an Islamic state. Neither India, nor US or Britain are Islamic states. So to put this verse as an excuse for what happened there only shows how biased, unknowledgable and unfair the media is

Again, the verse permits the muslims to fight the non –muslims in an islamic state ONLY and ONLY if they refuse to pay the jizya – Willingly . Re-read the verse from ANY translation if you are not sure. But once they pay the jizya tax they can continue to believe in their atheistic pagan beliefs, but it will be under an Islamic state. You can still forgive them by not forcing them into Islam, nor oppressing them or being bad to them because of their wrong beliefs.

*Whats JIZYA?
JIZYA ISN’T A RANSOM OR A BAD THING
now people might say isn’t it unfair that they have to pay the jizya tax? Not really. Since when is punishment for refusal to pay lawful taxes considered as terrorism? Also, the jizya tax is very cheap and affordable, and it grants the non-Muslim’s many benefits, benefits which even the Muslims don’t get! For instance, the non-Muslims who are paying jizya in an Islamic state are not obliged to take part in any battle or war, unless they themselves choose to, the Muslims do not have this choice. Muslims have to actually burn their asses out to protect both Muslims and non-Muslims living in their lands. Also if the Islamic state cannot grant protection to the non-Muslims then the non-Muslims are not obliged to pay the jizya tax, since Muslims themselves must meet expectations for the jizya tax to be implemented. Also, Society today has no problem in paying taxes to the government, so therefore they should have no problem in paying a tax in an Islamic state either.

Moreover, people might now say well isn’t Islam violent because Muslims are commanded to fight those who do not believe in God and so on etc etc. Not really, because fighting in this verse does not explicitly mean physical violence. Observe the words in the above verses like “willingly”, “willing submission”, “readily” etc. Here it is spoken about bringing a change from within the hearts of people which is brought about intellectually. There are many ways in which you fight against somebody that does not involve a physical aspect. You can fight someone with the tongue, using your wisdom and telling him about the truth, you are fighting against the lies that person is propagating and eventually with your tongue you will speak the truth and crush his lies leading him to the truth. So fighting does not have to only be physical. check dictionary for more usage of "FIGHT" ..

Now let's look at Sahil Muslim.
Sahih Muslim 30—Muhammad said: “I have been commanded to fight against people so long as they do not declare that there is no god but Allah.”
Here is Muhammad saying he will fight people UNTIL THEY SAY THERE IS NO GOD BUT ALLAH. That is, if i don't believe in Allah, Muhammad should fight me till I declare there is no God but Allah. Not because I am fighting Muhammad but simply because I don't believe.

Again! that hadith refers to pagan arabs

When we analysed the report in its historical context, we saw that the Prophet (p) gave amnesty and forgave the polytheists for the wrong they had done to the Muslims and their non-Muslim ally, Banu Khuza’a.

The polytheists Makkans with Banu Bakr attacked and murdered members of Banu Khuza’a, an ally of Prophet Muhammed. Previous to this incident, the Quraysh agreed to a treaty two years back promising not to break the treaty they agreed too with the Muslims. Soon after, the Quraysh with Banu Bakr attacked and murdered members of Muhammed’s ally, the Banu Khuza’a tribe. This led to the conquest of Makkah.

Wanted to send this in The thread u plan to open but recalled we will be talking about the Bible. Not the Koran. So I sent it here. If all these things I have quoted don't mean what we all think they are, doesn't that make Allah a very bad communicator??

not at all, everything is as clear as wine for any sincere person to thats willing to know the truth. if everything is straight to point then where is the test?? we will all be on the same religion!.. there are hundreds of this in the bible but whoever take his time to know the actual historic context one will not question why but in the case of bible its mix-up there are many that are un-explainable with or without context. this is more like a test for us that will be use against us in front our creator.

Quick Noble Verses that refute the terrorism LIE in Islam:


“Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors. (The Noble Quran, 2:190)“

“But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things). (The Noble Quran, 8:61)“

“If thou dost stretch thy hand against me, to slay me, it is not for me to stretch my hand against thee to slay thee: for I do fear God, the cherisher of the worlds. (The Noble Quran, 5:28)“

“God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (The Noble Quran, 60:“

“And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for God. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrongdoers. (The Noble Quran 2:193)“

“Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy handhold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. (The Noble Quran, 2:256)“

“Again and again will those who disbelieve, wish that they had bowed (to God’s will) in Islam. Leave them alone, to enjoy (the good things of this life) and to please themselves: let (false) hope amuse them: soon will knowledge (undeceive them). (The Noble Quran, 15:2-3)“

“Say, ‘The truth is from your Lord’: Let him who will believe, and let him who will, reject (it):……(The Noble Quran, 18:29)“

“If it had been thy Lord’s will, they would all have believed,- all who are on earth! wilt thou then COMPEL mankind, against their will, to believe! (The Noble Quran, 10:99)“

“Say: ‘Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger: but if ye turn away, he is only responsible for the duty placed on him and ye for that placed on you. If ye obey him, ye shall be on right guidance. The Messenger’s duty is only to preach the clear (Message). (The Noble Quran, 24:54)“

“Say : O ye that reject Faith! I worship not that which ye worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. To you be your Way, and to me mine. (The Noble Quran, 109:1-6)“

I can spend my entire life showing you verses such as these that are littered throughout the Quran which throw the lie of terrorism out of the window.

Caseless:
Going by the title if this thread, I'd have gone on to respond to this thread with maturity as requested by the OP , but he's immature himself and a hypocrite.


You guys don't even understand your own Bible , how can you claim you know the Quran and hadith ?



I'm fasting, so I won't use the right insult on you kids for now.

But you can still come back when you break your Fasting ryt

aminusanti:
why is the OT part of your Scriptures then? or is it suppose to be in the Quran??

History

Deicide:

But you can still come back when you break your Fasting ryt

it's a holy month, and I won't indulge in a fight.

kkins25:

History

lol

kkins25:

History

k

Caseless:
it's a holy month, and I won't indulge in a fight.

okies

aminusanti:


Today a person can only be ignorant of facts if he/she chose to be and as for anyone who choose to apply no sense n sincerity when learning he/she will surely stand in front of our creator to defend himself alone one day..


you just dnt know but people are doing their level best out there to speak out n educate the ignorant once but one can not help those that are not ready to help themselves and in every religion we have these set of people...take NL for example how many sincere people will you find that are ready to accept facts even if its as clear as day?

as i said above, people are different some do and some don't and to educate people of other faith it is not a waste of effort it's equally important as well because today the way the media is bombarding people with negative/wrong msg on islam it's really too much and it can lead to serious conflict if care is not taken...so awareness and enlightening people is very important sir.



Who are the unbelievers these verses are talking about?
they are those non-believers that use to pretend to be muslim when they are with the muslim but behind their back they plot against them..
This verse doesn’t ask the Muslims to do mindless slaughter as the media portrays or deceives. It gives the Muslims the permission to fight only those non-Muslims who do not pay jizya – the state tax. And we all know that jizya is applicable only in an Islamic state. Neither India, nor US or Britain are Islamic states. So to put this verse as an excuse for what happened there only shows how biased, unknowledgable and unfair the media is

Again, the verse permits the muslims to fight the non –muslims in an islamic state ONLY and ONLY if they refuse to pay the jizya – Willingly . Re-read the verse from ANY translation if you are not sure. But once they pay the jizya tax they can continue to believe in their atheistic pagan beliefs, but it will be under an Islamic state. You can still forgive them by not forcing them into Islam, nor oppressing them or being bad to them because of their wrong beliefs.

*Whats JIZYA?
JIZYA ISN’T A RANSOM OR A BAD THING
now people might say isn’t it unfair that they have to pay the jizya tax? Not really. Since when is punishment for refusal to pay lawful taxes considered as terrorism? Also, the jizya tax is very cheap and affordable, and it grants the non-Muslim’s many benefits, benefits which even the Muslims don’t get! For instance, the non-Muslims who are paying jizya in an Islamic state are not obliged to take part in any battle or war, unless they themselves choose to, the Muslims do not have this choice. Muslims have to actually burn their asses out to protect both Muslims and non-Muslims living in their lands. Also if the Islamic state cannot grant protection to the non-Muslims then the non-Muslims are not obliged to pay the jizya tax, since Muslims themselves must meet expectations for the jizya tax to be implemented. Also, Society today has no problem in paying taxes to the government, so therefore they should have no problem in paying a tax in an Islamic state either.

Moreover, people might now say well isn’t Islam violent because Muslims are commanded to fight those who do not believe in God and so on etc etc. Not really, because fighting in this verse does not explicitly mean physical violence. Observe the words in the above verses like “willingly”, “willing submission”, “readily” etc. Here it is spoken about bringing a change from within the hearts of people which is brought about intellectually. There are many ways in which you fight against somebody that does not involve a physical aspect. You can fight someone with the tongue, using your wisdom and telling him about the truth, you are fighting against the lies that person is propagating and eventually with your tongue you will speak the truth and crush his lies leading him to the truth. So fighting does not have to only be physical. check dictionary for more usage of "FIGHT" ..



Again! that hadith refers to pagan arabs

When we analysed the report in its historical context, we saw that the Prophet (p) gave amnesty and forgave the polytheists for the wrong they had done to the Muslims and their non-Muslim ally, Banu Khuza’a.

The polytheists Makkans with Banu Bakr attacked and murdered members of Banu Khuza’a, an ally of Prophet Muhammed. Previous to this incident, the Quraysh agreed to a treaty two years back promising not to break the treaty they agreed too with the Muslims. Soon after, the Quraysh with Banu Bakr attacked and murdered members of Muhammed’s ally, the Banu Khuza’a tribe. This led to the conquest of Makkah.

not at all, everything is as clear as wine for any sincere person to thats willing to know the truth. if everything is straight to point then where is the test?? we will all be on the same religion!.. there are hundreds of this in the bible but whoever take his time to know the actual historic context one will not question why but in the case of bible its mix-up there are many that are un-explainable with or without context. this is more like a test for us that will be use against us in front our creator.

Quick Noble Verses that refute the terrorism LIE in Islam:


“Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors. (The Noble Quran, 2:190)“

“But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things). (The Noble Quran, 8:61)“

“If thou dost stretch thy hand against me, to slay me, it is not for me to stretch my hand against thee to slay thee: for I do fear God, the cherisher of the worlds. (The Noble Quran, 5:28)“

“God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (The Noble Quran, 60:“

“And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for God. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrongdoers. (The Noble Quran 2:193)“

“Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy handhold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. (The Noble Quran, 2:256)“

“Again and again will those who disbelieve, wish that they had bowed (to God’s will) in Islam. Leave them alone, to enjoy (the good things of this life) and to please themselves: let (false) hope amuse them: soon will knowledge (undeceive them). (The Noble Quran, 15:2-3)“

“Say, ‘The truth is from your Lord’: Let him who will believe, and let him who will, reject (it):……(The Noble Quran, 18:29)“

“If it had been thy Lord’s will, they would all have believed,- all who are on earth! wilt thou then COMPEL mankind, against their will, to believe! (The Noble Quran, 10:99)“

“Say: ‘Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger: but if ye turn away, he is only responsible for the duty placed on him and ye for that placed on you. If ye obey him, ye shall be on right guidance. The Messenger’s duty is only to preach the clear (Message). (The Noble Quran, 24:54)“

“Say : O ye that reject Faith! I worship not that which ye worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. To you be your Way, and to me mine. (The Noble Quran, 109:1-6)“

I can spend my entire life showing you verses such as these that are littered throughout the Quran which throw the lie of terrorism out of the window.

Islam is so beautiful the way you present it my Brother. And honestly wish it was this way. I mean your description of the Jizya is quite nice. But let me start from the top.
You claim there are people out there trying to educate the ignorant ones. Fair enough. My Bible tells me, train up a child in the way he should grow and when he grows up, he will not depart from it.
For a religion that boasts of a single sect (let's agree the shittes are not Muslims), a united message and united people, I mean look at your description of the Hajj, so beautifully done. For religion that criticizes the Christians of having so many sects and then so different doctrines, you guys are pretty divided when it comes to your beliefs. And then we have to raise the questions, what kind of teachers teach these violent people? I don't know how you lot appoint your imams or teachers (I will love to be educated on that) but these large number of people who would love for the killing of apostates, weren't they properly educated by Imams when they were younger? Its easier to educate a child when he is young about something than try to change him when he already has a belief stuck in his head. Earlier on this thread someone posted a video of a supposed scholar who claimed that killing of apostates was the right thing to do in Islam. I have seen lots of videos of supposed scholars say the same thing. Recently I saw a video of a beautiful young Muslim girl and she was asked what she would do if her sister left Islam. Her answer was that her first instinct will be to kill her. Who educates these people?? Ex Muslims get death treat every single day. Why is the Muslim world doing nothing about these vile imams that teach these children all these "wrong" doctrines?
And enlightening us is good. But it has little effect when we can see what the radicals can do. And not everyone has the patience to read the historical context of Surah 9:29. When they open it, they see a seemingly violent message and immediately they believe that is the manual the radicals are acting with. Its like me getting beat by a Muslim brother, and instead of you to stop the Muslim brother and tell him it is wrong for him to beat me up, you leave him to continue pounding me, while you scream "this is not what Muhammad thought us. This is not the way of Islam". Your effort should be directed at him not me. If he wasn't violent, I wouldnt even think Islam was a violent religion in the first place. We don't need the media to see what the radicals do.
I didn't want to bring this up, but there is something about Islam that makes majority of you violent and intolerant. Muslims can't even accept criticisms without getting violent. I never argue with a Muslim in real life because I am scared for my life. Even here on Nairaland I don't reply a lot of Muslims because they get too abusive when their religion is being criticized. I now imagine if I was with them face to face? I remember the story of a woman being killed for refusing a Muslim to pray in front of her shop and a comment from a Muslim I saw on Facebook was " She was killed out of respect for the prophet." How sick is that I am not going to take the high ground and say I don't get offended when my faith is being bashed especially from the atheists. But getting violent does not even come into my head. If I believe I serve a living God, i shouldn't be doing the fighting for Him. So what exactly makes these Muslims so violent? Saw a video of a pastor who went to the Arabic festival to preach and you need to see how even the young Muslim kids verbally and physically attacked this man. This is not media, this is me seeing it live!
Now let's look at Koran 9:29 again.
Koran 9:29—Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth, from among the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
You said I should take note of the word "willingly". Of course they have to pay Willingly or they will get killed. Now look that the above bolded. Doesn't that mean paying the Jizya is just so the non Muslims can feel subdued? It ain't for any form of protection from the Muslims my brother. It is so non Muslims can see that they are second class citizens. UNTIL THEY PAY THE JIZYA WITH WILLING SUBMISSION AND FEEL themselves SUBDUED!!! How clearer can that be?
Now verse 28 talks about Allah enriching the Muslims. Verse 29 talks about the non Muslims paying the Jizya or die. It is so clear that the Jizya was only an option because the Muslims needed the money from the non Muslims. I don't see how clearer this can be?
Now you talked about fighting with words. Even you don't fully believe that do you? Isn't this the chapter called the " verse of the sword" or something?
OK. Let me get some quotes from Islamic scholars and how they interpret the Koran.
Ibn Kathir, The Battles of the Prophet, pp. 183-4—Allah, Most High, ordered the believers to prohibit the disbelievers from entering or coming near the sacred Mosque. On that, Quraish thought that this would reduce their profits from trade. Therefore, Allah, Most High, compensated them and ordered them to fight the people of the Book until they embrace Islam or pay the Jizyah. Allah says, “O ye who believe! Truly the pagans are unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the sacred Mosque. And if ye fear poverty, soon will Allah enrich you, if He wills, out of His bounty, for Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise. Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, from among the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” Therefore, the Messenger of Allah decided to fight the Romans in order to call them to Islam

Tafsir Ibn Kathir (on Qur’an 9:30)—Fighting the Jews and Christians is legislated because they are idolaters and disbelievers. Allah the Exalted encourages the believers to fight the polytheists, disbelieving Jews and Christians, who uttered this terrible statement and utter lies against Allah, the Exalted. As for the Jews, they claimed that Uzayr was the son of God, Allah is free of what they attribute to Him. As for the misguidance of Christians over Isa, it is obvious.

Now for your peaceful verses. We all know that all these came when Muslims where in the minority. They can't had no choice but to be peaceful. But when they became the majority? Abrogation took place.

Qur'an 2:106—“Whatever communications We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring one better than it or like it. Do you not know that Allah has power over all things?”

aminusanti:
k

You know you're being DECEPTIVE!

I will give details later BUT suffice it to say that the Sura 5 has much more to do with Jews and Christians than Moslems. So whilst you claim to use historical context to explain some areas you completely ignore the real context in the quran of a portion you use.

Well done!

Caseless:
it's a holy month, and I won't indulge in a fight.

Holy month while Muslims are suicide bombing themselves in the Middle East., Killing innocents in London and France? What is holy in a people/religion who only seek bloodshed? Repent before its too late. Please check here for update on Islamist terrorist attack. Sigh~~~

https://www.nairaland.com/3751379/same-religion-same-god-same/3

beware of pple including prophets who ban u from questioning their actions or teachings for that is a sign that they r afraid of their errors and dark side being discovered

plainbibletruth:


You know you're being DECEPTIVE!

I will give details later BUT suffice it to say that the Sura 5 has much more to do with Jews and Christians than Moslems. So whilst you claim to use historical context to explain some areas you completely ignore the real context in the quran of a portion you use.

Well done!

Ok