plainbibletruth:


You know you're being DECEPTIVE!

I will give details later BUT suffice it to say that the Sura 5 has much more to do with Jews and Christians than Moslems. So whilst you claim to use historical context to explain some areas you completely ignore the real context in the quran of a portion you use.

Well done!

k

oilcity:
beware of pple including prophets who ban u from questioning their actions or teachings for that is a sign that they r afraid of their errors and dark side being discovered

Word!!

aminusanti QUOTED Q. 5: 28 which as a stand alone APPEAR to say that the Moslem will not retaliate.
Right?
No! Not when the preceding verses or even the entire chapter is read. When the entire chapter is read we see it in CONTEXT and context is something our Moslem apologists like to drum into others all the time.

In verse 27 it talks about the story of Adam's two sons - apparently referring to Cain and Abel.
The verse 27 says:
And recite to them the story of Adam's two sons, in truth, when they both offered a sacrifice [to Allah ], and it was accepted from one of them but was not accepted from the other. Said [the latter], "I will surely kill you." Said [the former], "Indeed, Allah only accepts from the righteous [who fear Him].

It is obviously in response to the antagonist that the other brother said verse 28:
If you should raise your hand against me to kill me - I shall not raise my hand against you to kill you. Indeed, I fear Allah , Lord of the worlds.
And verse 29:
Indeed I want you to obtain [thereby] my sin and your sin so you will be among the companions of the Fire. And that is the recompense of wrongdoers."
To confirm this verse 30 now states:
And his soul permitted to him the murder of his brother, so he killed him and became among the losers.

This is what eventually led to another portion Moslems put forward to claim a religion of peace - verse 32:
Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors.
A verse Moslems twist by picking from the MIDDLE to claim that Allah says Moslems should not kill when the portion clearly states that -
We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely.

A portion said to be directed to the children of Israel is now used by Moslems to DECEIVE people into believing that it was Allah's directive to Moslems.
This is the extent Moslem apologists are ready to go in order to deceive the world.

Why would someone who is claiming Islam is a religion of peace be using DECEPTION to try to convince others of his position?

plainbibletruth:

aminusanti QUOTED Q. 5: 28 which as a stand alone APPEAR to say that the Moslem will not retaliate.
Right?
No! Not when the preceding verses or even the entire chapter is read. When the entire chapter is read we see it in CONTEXT and context is something our Moslem apologists like to drum into others all the time.

In verse 27 it talks about the story of Adam's two sons - apparently referring to Cain and Abel.
The verse 27 says:
And recite to them the story of Adam's two sons, in truth, when they both offered a sacrifice [to Allah ], and it was accepted from one of them but was not accepted from the other. Said [the latter], "I will surely kill you." Said [the former], "Indeed, Allah only accepts from the righteous [who fear Him].

It is obviously in response to the antagonist that the other brother said verse 28:
If you should raise your hand against me to kill me - I shall not raise my hand against you to kill you. Indeed, I fear Allah , Lord of the worlds.
And verse 29:
Indeed I want you to obtain [thereby] my sin and your sin so you will be among the companions of the Fire. And that is the recompense of wrongdoers."
To confirm this verse 30 now states:
And his soul permitted to him the murder of his brother, so he killed him and became among the losers.

This is what eventually led to another portion Moslems put forward to claim a religion of peace - verse 32:
Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors.
A verse Moslems twist by picking from the MIDDLE to claim that Allah says Moslems should not kill when the portion clearly states that -
We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely.

A portion said to be directed to the children of Israel is now used by Moslems to DECEIVE people into believing that it was Allah's directive to Moslems.
This is the extent Moslem apologists are ready to go in order to deceive the world.

Why would someone who is claiming Islam is a religion of peace be using DECEPTIONm to try to convince others of his position?

ok

Caseless:
Going by the title if this thread, I'd have gone on to respond to this thread with maturity as requested by the OP , but he's immature himself and a hypocrite.


You guys don't even understand your own Bible , how can you claim you know the Quran and hadith ?



I'm fasting, so I won't use the right insult on you kids for now.

as I said, this thread is for matured minds, not you

aminusanti:


Today a person can only be ignorant of facts if he/she chose to be and as for anyone who choose to apply no sense n sincerity when learning he/she will surely stand in front of our creator to defend himself alone one day..


you just dnt know but people are doing their level best out there to speak out n educate the ignorant once but one can not help those that are not ready to help themselves and in every religion we have these set of people...take NL for example how many sincere people will you find that are ready to accept facts even if its as clear as day?

as i said above, people are different some do and some don't and to educate people of other faith it is not a waste of effort it's equally important as well because today the way the media is bombarding people with negative/wrong msg on islam it's really too much and it can lead to serious conflict if care is not taken...so awareness and enlightening people is very important sir.



Who are the unbelievers these verses are talking about?
they are those non-believers that use to pretend to be muslim when they are with the muslim but behind their back they plot against them..
This verse doesn’t ask the Muslims to do mindless slaughter as the media portrays or deceives. It gives the Muslims the permission to fight only those non-Muslims who do not pay jizya – the state tax. And we all know that jizya is applicable only in an Islamic state. Neither India, nor US or Britain are Islamic states. So to put this verse as an excuse for what happened there only shows how biased, unknowledgable and unfair the media is

Again, the verse permits the muslims to fight the non –muslims in an islamic state ONLY and ONLY if they refuse to pay the jizya – Willingly . Re-read the verse from ANY translation if you are not sure. But once they pay the jizya tax they can continue to believe in their atheistic pagan beliefs, but it will be under an Islamic state. You can still forgive them by not forcing them into Islam, nor oppressing them or being bad to them because of their wrong beliefs.

*Whats JIZYA?
JIZYA ISN’T A RANSOM OR A BAD THING
now people might say isn’t it unfair that they have to pay the jizya tax? Not really. Since when is punishment for refusal to pay lawful taxes considered as terrorism? Also, the jizya tax is very cheap and affordable, and it grants the non-Muslim’s many benefits, benefits which even the Muslims don’t get! For instance, the non-Muslims who are paying jizya in an Islamic state are not obliged to take part in any battle or war, unless they themselves choose to, the Muslims do not have this choice. Muslims have to actually burn their asses out to protect both Muslims and non-Muslims living in their lands. Also if the Islamic state cannot grant protection to the non-Muslims then the non-Muslims are not obliged to pay the jizya tax, since Muslims themselves must meet expectations for the jizya tax to be implemented. Also, Society today has no problem in paying taxes to the government, so therefore they should have no problem in paying a tax in an Islamic state either.

Moreover, people might now say well isn’t Islam violent because Muslims are commanded to fight those who do not believe in God and so on etc etc. Not really, because fighting in this verse does not explicitly mean physical violence. Observe the words in the above verses like “willingly”, “willing submission”, “readily” etc. Here it is spoken about bringing a change from within the hearts of people which is brought about intellectually. There are many ways in which you fight against somebody that does not involve a physical aspect. You can fight someone with the tongue, using your wisdom and telling him about the truth, you are fighting against the lies that person is propagating and eventually with your tongue you will speak the truth and crush his lies leading him to the truth. So fighting does not have to only be physical. check dictionary for more usage of "FIGHT" ..



Again! that hadith refers to pagan arabs

When we analysed the report in its historical context, we saw that the Prophet (p) gave amnesty and forgave the polytheists for the wrong they had done to the Muslims and their non-Muslim ally, Banu Khuza’a.

The polytheists Makkans with Banu Bakr attacked and murdered members of Banu Khuza’a, an ally of Prophet Muhammed. Previous to this incident, the Quraysh agreed to a treaty two years back promising not to break the treaty they agreed too with the Muslims. Soon after, the Quraysh with Banu Bakr attacked and murdered members of Muhammed’s ally, the Banu Khuza’a tribe. This led to the conquest of Makkah.

not at all, everything is as clear as wine for any sincere person to thats willing to know the truth. if everything is straight to point then where is the test?? we will all be on the same religion!.. there are hundreds of this in the bible but whoever take his time to know the actual historic context one will not question why but in the case of bible its mix-up there are many that are un-explainable with or without context. this is more like a test for us that will be use against us in front our creator.

Quick Noble Verses that refute the terrorism LIE in Islam:


“Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors. (The Noble Quran, 2:190)“

“But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things). (The Noble Quran, 8:61)“

“If thou dost stretch thy hand against me, to slay me, it is not for me to stretch my hand against thee to slay thee: for I do fear God, the cherisher of the worlds. (The Noble Quran, 5:28)“

“God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (The Noble Quran, 60:“

“And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for God. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrongdoers. (The Noble Quran 2:193)“

“Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy handhold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. (The Noble Quran, 2:256)“

“Again and again will those who disbelieve, wish that they had bowed (to God’s will) in Islam. Leave them alone, to enjoy (the good things of this life) and to please themselves: let (false) hope amuse them: soon will knowledge (undeceive them). (The Noble Quran, 15:2-3)“

“Say, ‘The truth is from your Lord’: Let him who will believe, and let him who will, reject (it):……(The Noble Quran, 18:29)“

“If it had been thy Lord’s will, they would all have believed,- all who are on earth! wilt thou then COMPEL mankind, against their will, to believe! (The Noble Quran, 10:99)“

“Say: ‘Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger: but if ye turn away, he is only responsible for the duty placed on him and ye for that placed on you. If ye obey him, ye shall be on right guidance. The Messenger’s duty is only to preach the clear (Message). (The Noble Quran, 24:54)“

“Say : O ye that reject Faith! I worship not that which ye worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. To you be your Way, and to me mine. (The Noble Quran, 109:1-6)“

I can spend my entire life showing you verses such as these that are littered throughout the Quran which throw the lie of terrorism out of the window.

, I love the way you state your points on this thread, very matured. This is the kind of conversation I expect from everyone when I opened this thread.

However I have a a question, but before I ask, I will like to go back to what you said. You said early Muslims were more of converts from other religions and pagans, that means that Muslims did not actually own the states they lived they either conquered then or somehow, some Islamic states all agreed to covert to Islam.

Now looking at the times which they lived, conquering a town, enforcing the jizya tax on non believers and encouraging Muslims to fight them and even kill them if they don't pay sounds like exactly what ISIS is doing currently.

Now my question is this, does that mean that ISIS is following the core ideals of Islam?

!

WhoBeThisMan:

, I love the way you state your points on this thread, very matured. This is the kind of conversation I expect from everyone when I opened this thread.

Thanks bro..

However I have a a question, but before I ask, I will like to go back to what you said. You said early Muslims were more of converts from other religions and pagans, that means that Muslims did not actually own the states they lived they either conquered then or somehow, some Islamic states all agreed to covert to Islam.

Now looking at the times which they lived, conquering a town, enforcing the jizya tax on non believers and encouraging Muslims to fight them and even kill them if they don't pay sounds like exactly what ISIS is doing currently.

Can you pls highlight/show us where in the verse or the whole surah it mention to kill them for not paying tax?

Now my question is this, does that mean that ISIS is following the core ideals of Islam?

Do you mean by fighting to pay tax?