.

.

Febup:
More of this will continue as long as those who are not software engineering or computer science majors are the ones writing commercial software and leading these teams.

Is there any thing computer scientist and software engineers do that can't be learnt? My quess is no. Even certified engineers do make mistakes. Microsoft and other tech giants do ship updates frequently to fix bugs with all their professionals.

CodeTemplar:


Is there any thing computer scientist and software engineers do that can't be learnt? My quess is no. Even certified engineers do make mistakes. Microsoft and other tech giants do ship updates frequently to fix bugs with all their professionals.

Still the reason for these bugs is because software engineering majors are not the ones heading these software projects hence there will continue to be bugs in these software that are written.

Here are some comments from former self taught programmers:

1. I was self-taught. I learned I didn't know shit the first 2 weeks of uni. I learned more in 1 year than I learned in 10 years on my own.

Self-taught just indicates a level of desire, not level of competence. Being proud to be only self-taught to me means proud to be ignorant. It's a heuristic at best, but it's not too far off base.

2. Self taught (10 years), then formal. I have to say that the formal made me look back at how shitty I was (even though I appeared to be awesome among the sea of mediocre programmers). This profession does a poor job of licensing/certifying/validating those qualified to do the work.

3. In my experience, self taught programmers often lack the understanding of why you shouldn't do certain things that you can do. This then leads to less manageable code which makes changes take longer and longer.nges take longer and longer.

Source: https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?t=1209859

Febup:


Still the reason for these bugs is because software engineering majors are not the ones heading these software projects hence there will continue to be bugs in these software that are written.

Here are some comments from former self taught programmers:

1. I was self-taught. I learned I didn't know shit the first 2 weeks of uni. I learned more in 1 year than I learned in 10 years on my own.

Self-taught just indicates a level of desire, not level of competence. Being proud to be only self-taught to me means proud to be ignorant. It's a heuristic at best, but it's not too far off base.

2. Self taught (10 years), then formal. I have to say that the formal made me look back at how shitty I was (even though I appeared to be awesome among the sea of mediocre programmers). This profession does a poor job of licensing/certifying/validating those qualified to do the work.

3. In my experience, self taught programmers often lack the understanding of why you shouldn't do certain things that you can do. This then leads to less manageable code which makes changes take longer and longer.nges take longer and longer.

Source: https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?t=1209859

I understand the above as I am largely a self taught guy. For example I only stumbled upon Design Patterns after years by luck. It made me more aware of was and is going on in other peoples code. The point is even professionals are prone to such mistakes as what fired that dude in OP.

CodeTemplar:
I understand the above as I am largely a self taught guy. For example I only stumbled upon Design Patterns after years by luck. It made me more aware of was and is going on in other peoples code. The point is even professionals are prone to such mistakes as what fired that dude in OP.

No, professionals who are software engineering majors and computer science majors have acquired the academic skills at uni to write reliable and bug free codes but programming is one profession were it is the mediocre programmers that are programming and heading software developement teams and all they are after is to write code quickly and deploy to users without worrying about the outcome.

Febup:


No, professionals who are software engineering majors and computer science majors have acquired the academic skills at uni to write reliable and bug free codes but programming is one profession were it is the mediocre programmers that are programming and heading software developement teams and all they are after is to write code quickly and deploy to users without worrying about the outcome.

I insist software engineers wrote a lot of shitty codes.

CodeTemplar:
I insist software engineers wrote a lot of shitty codes.

Self taught programners will always talk like that to make themselves look relevant as there is no regulation yet to keep them away from writing unreliable and bugs filled codes.

Febup:


Self taught programners will always talk like that to make themselves look relevant as there is no regulation yet to keep them away from writing unreliable and bugs filled codes.

Ha ha ha ...
Professionals will always talk like u are talking also. What we need out there is a robust guideline self taught guys can guide their learning process with.
In my case, I could have been conscious of design patterns much earlier if there was a easily accessible guideline or mentor out there.

Febup:


No, professionals who are software engineering majors and computer science majors have acquired the academic skills at uni to write reliable and bug free codes but programming is one profession were it is the mediocre programmers that are programming and heading software developement teams and all they are after is to write code quickly and deploy to users without worrying about the outcome.

Stop saying what you don't know. I am a Computer Engineering Graduate, as well as a Software Engineer, and I also know some Computer Engineering/Science Professors who can't code, and this isn't peculiar to Nigeria. It holds true even in the US. Knowing theoretical programming principles is completely different from knowing how to actually write code.

Also, learning programming principles is a lot much easier than actually learning how to write code.

bot101:


Stop saying what you don't know. I am a Computer Engineering Graduate,

Same here.

CodeTemplar:

Same here.

Wow, that's good to know.

bot101:


Stop saying what you don't know. I am a Computer Engineering Graduate, as well as a Software Engineer, and I also know some Computer Engineering/Science Professors who can't code, and this isn't peculiar to Nigeria. It holds true even in the US. Knowing theoretical programming principles is completely different from knowing how to actually write code.

Also, learning programming principles is a lot much easier than actually learning how to write code.

A Computer Engineering Graduate is not a Software Engineering Graduate so you don't know what you are saying. Coding covers just about 10% in a Software Engineering Degree and Computer Science Degree as there are more important things they cover which has to be considered when developing an application. Self taught and mediocre programmers expects a Software Engineering Graduate or Computer Science Graduate to produce code just like a magician. If a Software Engineering Graduate or Computer Science Graduate have not worked on a code for a while he needs some time to refresh his memory as he is not limited to just one way of coding like self taught and mediocre programmers who just learn and uses one type of coding only and expects Software Engineering Graduates and Computer Science Graduates to produce that same code just like magic even though they've not done such for a long time.

Software Engineering Graduate or Computer Science Graduate can learn and use any programming language that is needed to write a reliable and bug free code that does what the user expects.

Self taught programmers like I said before will always talk like you do to make themselves look relevant as there is no regulation yet to keep them away from writing unreliable and bugs filled codes.

Febup:


A Computer Engineering Graduate is not a Software Engineering Graduate so you don't know what you are saying. Coding covers just about 10% in a Software Engineering Degree and Computer Science Degree as there are more important things they cover which has to be considered when developing an application. Self taught and mediocre programmers expects a Software Engineering Graduate or Computer Science Graduate to produce code just like a magician. If Software Engineering Graduate or Computer Science Graduate have not worked on a code for a while he needs sometime to refresh his memory as he is not limited to just one way of coding like self taught and mediocre programmers who just learn and uses one type of coding only and expects Software Engineering Graduates and Computer Science Graduates to produce that same code just like magic even though they not done such for a long time.

Software Engineering Graduate or Computer Science Graduate can learn and use any programming language that is needed to write a reliable and bug free code that does what the user expects.

Self taught programmers like I said before will always talk like you do to make themselves look relevant as there is no regulation yet to keep them away from writing unreliable and bugs filled codes.

You just go on google, copy whatever makes sense to you, post it, and assume the position of authority on the subject.

Computer Science and Computer Engineering are pretty broad fields, and anyone can specialize in Software Engineering in either discipline. An Engineer would even write a more optimized program give his better understanding of the computer hardware architecture. And you failed to address the issue of Professors in Computer Science/Engineering who can't code. I've had first hand experience of working with them so you know.

bot101:


You just go on google, copy whatever makes sense to you, post it, and assume the position of authority on the subject.

Computer Science and Computer Engineering are pretty broad fields, and anyone can specialize in Software Engineering in either discipline. An Engineer would even write a more optimized program give his better understanding of the computer hardware architecture. And you failed to address the issue of Professors in Computer Science/Engineering who can't code. I've had first hand experience of working with them so you know.

You are the one that just says what other Self taught and mediocre programmers are saying online, go get a degree in Software Engineering or Computer Science first before coming back to comment because for now you will continue to make comments like Self taught and mediocre programmers do all the time just to make themselves look relevant as there is no regulation yet to keep them away from writing unreliable and bugs filled codes.

HI EVERYONE, I DONT UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT HERE. IS IT THAT WE TRULY NEED TO GO TO A UNIVERSITY TO BE REALLY GOOD IN THE IT WORLD, BE IT PROGRAMMING, NETWORKING, ETC OR WE SHOULD GO AND GET THE SKILL NEEDED TO IMPROVE WORTH OF LIFE. AM KINDA CONFUSED.

THE REASON FOR THE ABOVE QUESTION IS DAT; AM ABOUT TO GAIN ADMISSION INTO THE UNIVERSITY FOR COMPUTER SCIENCE DEGREE AND AM IN LOVE WITH TECH......SO I AM THINKING OF LEAVING MY DEGREE PURSUIT FOR SKILLS IN IT(I.E PROGRAMMING NETWORKING ETC). DON'T KNOW IF IT IS REALLY IDEAL.

Febup:
More of this will continue as long as those who are not software engineering majors or computer science majors are the ones writing commercial software and leading these teams.

From the story above the fault was not from a bug but an omission ..
Time to change your mentality on this same issue ... Take some time out and visit our local coding centers e.g Andela ..CChub .. and many others and see how young ones who have never attended a university are faring

I have a few questions to ask Op which for the life of me I just can't understand

1. Is there a software that isn't bug free? Big companies like apple, google, Microsoft with all their developers who are experts, supervisors and projects managers , blah, blah blah still roll out software's or products that contains bugs which they fix and keep releasing updates from time to time.

2. fundamentals of programming which is data structure are you saying because I am a self taught developer who learnt this I should lose feel inferior to someone who went to uni and learnt the same thing

3. Most schools curriculum in the country teaches out dated programming languages how then do you expect a graduate who doesn't improve on his own to write software's with out making one of the errors we were taught in programming 101?

4. I may be wrong on this but please explain how windows OS which is one of the softwares with 20 millions lines of codes which has been built for over 20 years still has miscrosft best development team work day and night to realese updates why didn't they just released a bug free software since you claiming the above-mentioned

5. Yes I may agree with you on some certain context but the blame should be on those self taught programmers who felt they should cut Conner's simply because one or few codes they copied from the internet worked for them... but wait a minute what am I even saying I have friends who studied computer science or computer engineering and they cant code professionally as well

lastly I belive experience is what makes you an expert overtime as the more projects you work on and it's complexity gives you a more positive mindset towards fixing errors and avoiding it as we all professional programmers know that the first rule in programming is solving the solution before wrtiting the code.... while fixing the bug is more important than looking for a bug .....because no matter how you claim your software is bug free there is that single person what a ctrl spoil ability lol.

kind regards

raymod170:
I have a few questions to ask Op which for the life of me I just can't understand

1. Is there a software that isn't bug free? Big companies like apple, google, Microsoft with all their developers who are experts, supervisors and projects managers , blah, blah blah still roll out software's or products that contains bugs which they fix and keep releasing updates from time to time.

2. fundamentals of programming which is data structure are you saying because I am a self taught developer who learnt this I should lose feel inferior to someone who went to uni and learnt the same thing

3. Most schools curriculum in the country teaches out dated programming languages how then do you expect a graduate who doesn't improve on his own to write software's with out making one of the errors we were taught in programming 101?

4. I may be wrong on this but please explain how windows OS which is one of the softwares with 20 millions lines of codes which has been built for over 20 years still has miscrosft best development team work day and night to realese updates why didn't they just released a bug free software since you claiming the above-mentioned

5. Yes I may agree with you on some certain context but the blame should be on those self taught programmers who felt they should cut Conner's simply because one or few codes they copied from the internet worked for them... but wait a minute what am I even saying I have friends who studied computer science or computer engineering and they cant code professionally as well

lastly I belive experience is what makes you an expert overtime as the more projects you work on and it's complexity gives you a more positive mindset towards fixing errors and avoiding it as we all professional programmers know that the first rule in programming is solving the solution before wrtiting the code.... while fixing the bug is more important than looking for a bug .....because no matter how you claim your software is bug free there is that single person what a ctrl spoil ability lol.

kind regards

That's why I said he's a persona non grata with matters relating to programming. In his mind now, there's a perfect software that doesn't need maintenance.

wane01:
From the story above the fault was not from a bug but an omission ..

"A bug can be an error, mistake, defect or fault, which may cause failure or deviation from expected results. Most bugs are due to human errors in source code or its design." Source: https://www.techopedia.com/definition/24864/software-bug-
Also
In IT, a bug refers to an error, fault or flaw in any computer program or a hardware system. A bug produces unexpected results or causes a system to behave unexpectedly. In short it is any behavior or result that a program or system gets but it was not designed to do. Source: https://www.techopedia.com/definition/3758/bug

It is still a bug since the software has deviated away from the expected result as what has happened was not the expected result the stakeholders were expecting.

@raymod170 & bot101

I will not comment on the companies you have mentioned as they are not my company, but from the small and big international companies I have worked for, what I find surprisingly is that the programmers and the development managers are not Software Engineering Graduates or Computer Science Graduates and the truth is that getting these jobs is who you know and not what you know as there is no regulations in place.

Self taught and mediocre programmers are always quick to say that programs cannot be free from bugs though they are wrong but due to the fact the Self taught and mediocre programmers have all dominated the programming sector, so they will always say things like this to make themselves look relevant as there is no regulation in place to make sure their code is checked by an experienced Software Engineering Graduate or an experienced Computer Science Graduate.

Febup:


"A bug can be an error, mistake, defect or fault, which may cause failure or deviation from expected results. Most bugs are due to human errors in source code or its design." Source: https://www.techopedia.com/definition/24864/software-bug-

It is still a bug since the software has deviated away from the expected result as what has happened was not the expected result the stakeholders were expecting.

from your write-up there was an omission by the Employer ..
The program ran accordingly

wane01:

from your write-up there was an omission by the Employer ..
The program ran accordingly

What happened still wasn't what the stakeholders were expecting and an omission was a mistake on the part of the programmer which still makes it a bug in the program.

Febup:
@raymod170 & bot101

I will not comment on the companies you have mentioned as they are not my company, but from the small and big international companies I have worked for, what I find surprisingly is that the programmers and the development managers are not Software Engineering Graduates or Computer Science Graduates and the truth is that getting these jobs is who you know and not what you know as there is no regulations in place.

Self taught and mediocre programmers are always quick to say that programs cannot be free from bugs though they are wrong but due to the fact the Self taught and mediocre programmers have all dominated the programming sector, so they will always say things like this to make themselves look relevant as there is no regulation in place to make sure their code is checked by an experienced Software Engineering Graduate or an experienced Computer Science Graduate.

Kindly explain the bugs Apple has been fixing on their iPhone lately or the bugs google has been fixing or the updated windows 10 keeps telling you about when you connected to the internet...

As long as a software product is developed there will always be bugs, it doesn't mean the software is awful but as long as the software is fixed then that's what matters....

If you say there is a nbug free software how come no matter the unit testing that you do or the code reviews you still have your software's going through system maintenance, update and upgrade....

if you looking for bug free softwares open your IDE and type "Hello World" in your most preferred programmable language.. but as long as software's are created for a particular function most especially in the business world there must always be some sort of bug you will encounter from logical error to security errors mind you security bugs is one of the most important of them.

do you even know that you can fix a bug and at the same time introduce new bugs I think this is an issue most apps on play store faces as if you take out time to read the update log you will realize they mentioned that something similar to what they fixed on their previous update was fixed again in their new update. some state the bug some don't.

even if you catch all the exception in your software. it doesn't mean one bug can't still be found on it

There are best practices one can employ to reduce the likelihood of bugs from appearing. But to be absolutely bug-free impossible .

kind regards

@raymod170, bot101 and other self taught programmers, the courses below are similar to what a Software Engineering Graduate or Computer Science Graduate would have studied while at uni. A self taught programmer can never in a life time acquire the knowledge a Software Engineering Graduate or Computer Science Graduate have acquired while at uni. If Software Engineering Graduates or Computer Science Graduates are given the chance to gain experience by writing the programs the self taught and mediocre programmers are writing then the quality of software Software Engineering Graduates or Computer Science Graduates will produce will become a different ball game.

Year 1
Information Systems Modelling and Design (Core)
Introduction to Software Development (Core)
Introduction to Computer Systems and Networks (Core)
Introduction to Web Technologies (Core)
Maths for Computing (Core)

Second Year
Database Systems (Core)
Operating Systems (Core)
Computing in Practice (Core)
Advanced Programming (Core)
Data Structures and Algorithms (Core)
Data Communications and Networks (Core)

Third Year
Project (Core)
Computers and Network Security (Core)
Formal Methods (Core)
Distributed Systems (Core)
Artificial Intelligence (Core)
Mobile Application Development (Optional)

Febup:
@raymod170, bot101 and other self taught programmers, the courses below are similar to what a Software Engineering Graduate or Computer Science Graduate would have studied while at uni. A self taught programmer can never in a life time acquire the knowledge a Software Engineering Graduate or Computer Science Graduate have acquired while at uni. If Software Engineering Graduates or Computer Science Graduates are given the chance to gain experience by writing the programs the self taught and mediocre programmers are writing then the quality of software Software Engineering Graduates or Computer Science Graduates will produce will become a different ball game.

Year 1
Information Systems Modelling and Design (Core)
Introduction to Software Development (Core)
Introduction to Computer Systems and Networks (Core)
Introduction to Web Technologies (Core)
Maths for Computing (Core)

Second Year
Database Systems (Core)
Operating Systems (Core)
Computing in Practice (Core)
Advanced Programming (Core)
Data Structures and Algorithms (Core)
Data Communications and Networks (Core)

Third Year
Project (Core)
Computers and Network Security (Core)
Formal Methods (Core)
Distributed Systems (Core)
Artificial Intelligence (Core)
Mobile Application Development (Optional)

Am a computer science graduate and a soon to be mathematics graduate most of the courses listed I have done it still doesn't change my view on the above mentioned

raymod170:

do you even know that you can fix a bug and at the same time introduce new bugs I think this is an issue most apps on play store faces as if you take out time to read the update log you will realize they mentioned that something similar to what they fixed on their previous update was fixed again in their new update. some state the bug some don't.

There are best practices one can employ to reduce the likelihood of bugs from appearing. But to be absolutely bug-free impossible.
kind regards

What I have found so far is that self taught and mediocre programmers hate UML this is like a builder that hates an Architect's plan of a building. The reason for this is that when self taught and mediocre programmers don't know something that is very important in software development, self taught and mediocre programmers are very quick to criticise what they don't know.

UML was developed by IBM and it is the only modelling tool that is industry standard. UML is like the Architect's plan of a building which will ensures that if a builder can read and understand the Architect's plan then the builder can extend and repair a building without causing unknown damage to the building. Software Engineering Graduates are taught how to create UML diagrams and to write their code from the UML diagram this way they are sure any modification or extension to a software does not break something else in the software.

I must leave it here for now as I have explained so much so far and I have projects to attend to.

Febup:
@raymod170, bot101 and other self taught programmers, the courses below are similar to what a Software Engineering Graduate or Computer Science Graduate would have studied while at uni. A self taught programmer can never in a life time acquire the knowledge a Software Engineering Graduate or Computer Science Graduate have acquired while at uni. If Software Engineering Graduates or Computer Science Graduates are given the chance to gain experience by writing the programs the self taught and mediocre programmers are writing then the quality of software Software Engineering Graduates or Computer Science Graduates will produce will become a different ball game.

Year 1
Information Systems Modelling and Design (Core)
Introduction to Software Development (Core)
Introduction to Computer Systems and Networks (Core)
Introduction to Web Technologies (Core)
Maths for Computing (Core)

Second Year
Database Systems (Core)
Operating Systems (Core)
Computing in Practice (Core)
Advanced Programming (Core)
Data Structures and Algorithms (Core)
Data Communications and Networks (Core)

Third Year
Project (Core)
Computers and Network Security (Core)
Formal Methods (Core)
Distributed Systems (Core)
Artificial Intelligence (Core)
Mobile Application Development (Optional)

Have you seen a Computer Engineering course curriculum?? Every single course that you listed here is taught in computer engineering except mobile app development (I didn't do that in school). In addition to that, we are taught electronics circuit design, integrated circuit design, embedded systems and we also do a bit of power systems. As for computing maths, don't even go there. We did that every year for 4 years. You want me to list the languages I was taught in school?? In the order I was taught from my first to final year (5 years) QBasic, Fortran, Assembly, Java, C/C++, HTML, CSS, JavaScript, PHP & MySQL, but we all know that all those are basic knowledge and concepts of programming. Yes, you'll be taught programming patterns in school (singleton, factory, maybe adapter and a few others if you are lucky), you'll be taught a ton of other things like SDLC for example, but tell yourself the truth. If I give you a project to develop an enterprise ready neural network with only the knowledge you gained from school, would you be able to do it??If you know how rapidly technology changes in the software world, you'll know that knowledge gained in school became obsolete before you were even taught them. I say it again, there is no programmer that knows his/her worth that isn't self taught.

Edit:
The fact that you put (core) after each of the courses you listed there, tells me you haven't written any nontrivial program on your own. Linus Trovald (Linux), Rich Brendan (JavaScript) and the people that authored all the programming languages we use today can't boast of knowing every nitty gritty of the languages the themselves wrote. What you are taught as 'core' is called basic concepts in the real world.

You don't know that because you haven't written a program that's deployed in the real world. Write one or maybe two, and you'll delete everything you've posted so far

bot101:


Have you seen a Computer Engineering course curriculum?? Every single course that you listed here is taught in computer engineering except mobile app development (I didn't do that in school). In addition to that, we are taught electronics circuit design, embedded systems and we also do a bit of power systems. As for computing maths, don't even go there. We did that every year for 4 years. You want me to list the languages I was taught in school?? In the order I was taught from my first to final year (5 years) QBasic, Fortran, Assembly, Java, C/C++, HTML, CSS, JavaScript, PHP & MySQL, but we all know that all those are basic knowledge and concepts of programming. Yes, you'll be taught programming patterns in school (singleton, factory, maybe adapter and a few others if you are lucky), you'll be taught a ton of other things like SDLC for example, but tell yourself the truth. If I give you a project to develop an enterprise ready neural network with only the knowledge you gained from school, would you be able to do it??If you know how rapidly technology changes in the software world, you'll know that knowledge gained in school became obsolete before you were even taught them. I say it again, there is no programmer that knows his/her worth that isn't self taught.

You have spoken and the gods are pleased lol

Kind regards

Febup:
@raymod170, bot101 and other self taught programmers, the courses below are similar to what a Software Engineering Graduate or Computer Science Graduate would have studied while at uni. A self taught programmer can never in a life time acquire the knowledge a Software Engineering Graduate or Computer Science Graduate have acquired while at uni. If Software Engineering Graduates or Computer Science Graduates are given the chance to gain experience by writing the programs the self taught and mediocre programmers are writing then the quality of software Software Engineering Graduates or Computer Science Graduates will produce will become a different ball game.

Year 1
Information Systems Modelling and Design (Core)
Introduction to Software Development (Core)
Introduction to Computer Systems and Networks (Core)
Introduction to Web Technologies (Core)
Maths for Computing (Core)

Second Year
Database Systems (Core)
Operating Systems (Core)
Computing in Practice (Core)
Advanced Programming (Core)
Data Structures and Algorithms (Core)
Data Communications and Networks (Core)

Third Year
Project (Core)
Computers and Network Security (Core)
Formal Methods (Core)
Distributed Systems (Core)
Artificial Intelligence (Core)
Mobile Application Development (Optional)

All what you listed are teachable & understandable outside the four walls of any bloody uni.

Febup:


What I have found so far is that self taught and mediocre programmers hate UML this is like a builder that hates an Architect's plan of a building. The reason for this is that when self taught and mediocre programmers don't know something that is very important in software development, self taught and mediocre programmers are very quick to criticise what they don't know.

UML was developed by IBM and it is the only modelling tool that is industry standard. UML is like the Architect's plan of a building which will ensures that if a builder can read and understand the Architect's plan then the builder can extend and repair a building without causing unknown damage to the building. Software Engineering Graduates are taught how to create UML diagrams and to write their code from the UML diagram this way they are sure any modification or extension to a software does not break something else in the software.

I must leave it here for now as I have explained so much so far and I have projects to attend to.

I happen to have learnt programming with a book that taught/ introduced uml along with programming. It is "Java How To Program - 7e".
Stop assumming things too fast.

@bot101
Computer Engineering is not Software Engineering or Computer Science. You don't even have a clue of what Formal Methods is about.
All programming languages are similar, so you need to know that understanding how to research, choose the right programming language for the requirements and how to code and develop reliable software is what a degree in Software Engineering and Computer Science will teach you, this way you can pick up any programming language and you will understand the syntax and how to work with it.

There are thousands and even millions of syntax in a programming language but self taught without a Degree in Software Engineering or Computer Science and mediocre programmers do expect a Software Engineering Graduate or Computer Science Graduate to have memorised and mastered every programming language and all the thousands and millions of syntax in a programming language what a joke.

As long as there are no regulations in place in the programming sector self taught without a Degree in Software Engineering and Computer Science and mediocre programmers will continue to talk the way you do just to make themselves look relevant in order to keep writing the unreliable and bug filled code they are writing now.