bloodofthelamb:


Only God can reward you for the time and energy you spend in defending the free grace of God. The Lord is your strength and reward! Thou art blessed!

A big amen bro

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPJKgt_zg-w

OkCornel:
Carefully read Acts 15 and also read the following verses in context (which I've bolded): 1,5,9,10,20,28,29

The Apostles clearly told the Gentile Christians what is needed for them to be Christians in verse 10,20,28,29. And tithing is not part of the requirements.

Having seen this, please why are the Pastors preaching that non-tithers would be under the devourer's curse for not paying their tithes?

Where did the Apostles instruct Christians to give firstfruits?

Very confused fellow you are.

So the things stated in verse 20 and 29 are the only things of the law which Christians are to keep? That means you can now go ahead and have sex with your mother your father's wife, your sister, your wife's sister etc, since the apostles didn't say we should keep those part of the law.

alBHAGDADI:


Very confused fellow you are.

So the things stated in verse 20 and 29 are the only things of the law which Christians are to keep? That means you can now go ahead and have sex with your mother your father's wife, your sister, your wife's sister etc, since the apostles didn't say we should keep those part of the law.

Oh, so you mean Paul was wrong to say the following?

Romans 6:14
for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Galatians 5:18
But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the Law.

OR

That the Apostles were wrong in their conclusion in Acts 15? Or you now know better than the Apostles?

alBHAGDADI:


Very confused fellow you are.

So the things stated in verse 20 and 29 are the only things of the law which Christians are to keep? That means you can now go ahead and have sex with your mother your father's wife, your sister, your wife's sister etc, since the apostles didn't say we should keep those part of the law.

Ehen... Now that you are back, and you still insist the Law is active... tell us how you have been obeying these instructions...

68. Men must not shave the hair off the sides of their head — Lev. 19:27
69. Men must not shave their beards with a razor — Lev. 19:27
73. Not to tear the skin in mourning — Deut. 14:1
74. Not to make a bald spot in mourning — Deut. 14:1
76. To say the Shema twice daily — Deut. 6:7
79. To wear tefillin (phylacteries) on the head — Deut. 6:8
80. To bind tefillin on the arm — Deut. 6:8
81. To put a mezuzah on the door post — Deut. 6:9
82. Each male must write a Torah scroll — Deut. 31:19
108. Not to eat chametz on the afternoon of the 14th day of Nisan — Deut. 16:3
109. To destroy all chametz on 14th day of Nisan — Ex. 12:15
110. Not to eat chametz all seven days of Passover —Ex. 13:3
111. Not to eat mixtures containing chametz all seven days of Passover — Ex. 12:20
112. Not to see chametz in your domain seven days — Ex. 13:7
113. Not to find chametz in your domain seven days — Ex. 12:19
114. To eat matzah on the first night of Passover — Ex. 12:18
115. To relate the Exodus from Egypt on that night — Ex. 13:8
116. To hear the Shofar on the first day of Tishrei (Rosh Hashanah) — Num. 9:1
117. To dwell in a Sukkah for the seven days of Sukkot — Lev. 23:42
128. To perform yibbum (marry the widow of one's childless brother) — Deut. 25:5
129. To perform halizah (free the widow of one's childless brother from yibbum) — Deut. 25:9
232. Not to sell the cherem — Lev. 27:28
233. Not to redeem the cherem — Lev. 27:28
234. Not to plant diverse seeds together — Lev. 19:19
235. Not to plant grains or greens in a vineyard — Deut. 22:9
236. Not to crossbreed animals — Lev. 19:19
237. Not to work different animals together — Deut. 22:10
238. Not to wear shaatnez, a cloth woven of wool and linen — Deut. 22:11
426. To set aside the firstborn animals — Ex. 13:12
427. The Kohanim must not eat unblemished firstborn animals outside Jerusalem — Deut. 12:17
428. Not to redeem the firstborn — Num. 18:17
429. Separate the tithe from animals — Lev. 27:32
430. Not to redeem the tithe — Lev. 27:33
436. A woman who had a running (vaginal) issue must bring an offering (in the Temple) after she goes to the Mikveh — Lev. 15:28-29
437. A woman who gave birth must bring an offering (in the Temple) after she goes to the Mikveh — Lev. 12:6
438. A man who had a running (unnatural urinary) issue must bring an offering (in the Temple) after he goes to the Mikveh — Lev. 15:13-14
439. A metzora (one having a skin disease) must bring an offering (in the Temple) after going to the Mikveh — Lev. 14:10
455. Observe the laws of impurity caused by childbirth — Lev. 12:2

alBHAGDADI:


Very confused fellow you are.

So the things stated in verse 20 and 29 are the only things of the law which Christians are to keep? That means you can now go ahead and have sex with your mother your father's wife, your sister, your wife's sister etc, since the apostles didn't say we should keep those part of the law.

We are still waiting for biblical examples where Christians gave tithes and firstfruits in the church.


As for freewill giving, there are numerous examples.

Hurry up and bring one biblical example of tithing or first fruit offering performed by Christians

OkaiCorne:


Ehen... Now that you are back, and you still insist the Law is active... tell us how you have been obeying these instructions...

68. Men must not shave the hair off the sides of their head — Lev. 19:27
69. Men must not shave their beards with a razor — Lev. 19:27
73. Not to tear the skin in mourning — Deut. 14:1
74. Not to make a bald spot in mourning — Deut. 14:1
76. To say the Shema twice daily — Deut. 6:7
79. To wear tefillin (phylacteries) on the head — Deut. 6:8
80. To bind tefillin on the arm — Deut. 6:8
81. To put a mezuzah on the door post — Deut. 6:9
82. Each male must write a Torah scroll — Deut. 31:19
108. Not to eat chametz on the afternoon of the 14th day of Nisan — Deut. 16:3
109. To destroy all chametz on 14th day of Nisan — Ex. 12:15
110. Not to eat chametz all seven days of Passover —Ex. 13:3
111. Not to eat mixtures containing chametz all seven days of Passover — Ex. 12:20
112. Not to see chametz in your domain seven days — Ex. 13:7
113. Not to find chametz in your domain seven days — Ex. 12:19
114. To eat matzah on the first night of Passover — Ex. 12:18
115. To relate the Exodus from Egypt on that night — Ex. 13:8
116. To hear the Shofar on the first day of Tishrei (Rosh Hashanah) — Num. 9:1
117. To dwell in a Sukkah for the seven days of Sukkot — Lev. 23:42
128. To perform yibbum (marry the widow of one's childless brother) — Deut. 25:5
129. To perform halizah (free the widow of one's childless brother from yibbum) — Deut. 25:9
232. Not to sell the cherem — Lev. 27:28
233. Not to redeem the cherem — Lev. 27:28
234. Not to plant diverse seeds together — Lev. 19:19
235. Not to plant grains or greens in a vineyard — Deut. 22:9
236. Not to crossbreed animals — Lev. 19:19
237. Not to work different animals together — Deut. 22:10
238. Not to wear shaatnez, a cloth woven of wool and linen — Deut. 22:11
426. To set aside the firstborn animals — Ex. 13:12
427. The Kohanim must not eat unblemished firstborn animals outside Jerusalem — Deut. 12:17
428. Not to redeem the firstborn — Num. 18:17
429. Separate the tithe from animals — Lev. 27:32
430. Not to redeem the tithe — Lev. 27:33
436. A woman who had a running (vaginal) issue must bring an offering (in the Temple) after she goes to the Mikveh — Lev. 15:28-29
437. A woman who gave birth must bring an offering (in the Temple) after she goes to the Mikveh — Lev. 12:6
438. A man who had a running (unnatural urinary) issue must bring an offering (in the Temple) after he goes to the Mikveh — Lev. 15:13-14
439. A metzora (one having a skin disease) must bring an offering (in the Temple) after going to the Mikveh — Lev. 14:10
455. Observe the laws of impurity caused by childbirth — Lev. 12:2

Mr recycler, I already explained all these. Stop bring them back.

OkaiCorne:


Oh, so you mean Paul was wrong to say the following?

Romans 6:14
for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Galatians 5:18
But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the Law.

OR

That the Apostles were wrong in their conclusion in Acts 15? Or you now know better than the Apostles?

You don't understand what he's saying.

He's simply saying we are not saved by the works of the law but by grace through faith. You don't pick a Bible verse and run wild with it. You divide it using scriptures.

OkaiCorne:


We are still waiting for biblical examples where Christians gave tithes and firstfruits in the church.


As for freewill giving, there are numerous examples.

Hurry up and bring one biblical example of tithing or first fruit offering performed by Christians

While you are waiting, make sure you supply verses to show where Christians in the Bible went to the toilet, ate yam and egg, WATCHED TV, used mobile phones etc.

alBHAGDADI:


Mr recycler, I already explained all these. Stop bring them back.

You are a liar, you just spoke on point 80 and 81 and ran away. Now you are claiming you explained all of them.

You claimed the Law is still active. Why aren't you following all those instructions?

alBHAGDADI:


While you are waiting, make sure you supply verses to show where Christians in the Bible went to the toilet, ate yam and egg, WATCHED TV, used mobile phones etc.

Totally off point.

If Christians were required to tithe or give first fruit to support the church, Paul who was formerly a Pharisee would have recommended it in at least one of his letters.

Please show us where in the Bible Christians were required to tithe and give first fruit or where they did so.


Unless you want to add to God's word to make your point.

alBHAGDADI:


You don't understand what he's saying.

He's simply saying we are not saved by the works of the law but by grace through faith. You don't pick a Bible verse and run wild with it. You divide it using scriptures.

Romans 6:14
for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Galatians 5:18
But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the Law.


The bolded is self explanatory. Christians are not under the Law.

alBHAGDADI:


You don't understand what he's saying.

He's simply saying we are not saved by the works of the law but by grace through faith. You don't pick a Bible verse and run wild with it. You divide it using scriptures.

alBHAGDADI,

You have become so desperate of late. I am beginning to believe that you are a pastor.

Anyway, tomorrow (Sunday), I shall put this matter of tithe and first fruit to rest once and for all, using just two Bible verses.

OkaiCorne:


Totally off point.

If Christians were required to tithe or give first fruit to support the church, Paul who was formerly a Pharisee would have recommended it in at least one of his letters.

Please show us where in the Bible Christians were required to tithe and give first fruit or where they did so.


Unless you want to add to God's word to make your point.

Please show us where in the Bible Christians were required to to use mobile phones, watch TV and use computer or where they did so

OkaiCorne:


You are a liar, you just spoke on point 80 and 81 and ran away. Now you are claiming you explained all of them.

You claimed the Law is still active. Why aren't you following all those instructions?

Do you expect me to explain every single one of them? Who has the time? They are all explained in Christ words which says we should love God and our neighbor.

If you can understand what Christ meant by love, you will understand how to fulfill those laws.

OkaiCorne:



Romans 6:14
for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Galatians 5:18
But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the Law.


The bolded is self explanatory. Christians are not under the Law.

Those passages are talking about salvation through grace not by the works of the law. It simply means if you are depending on the law to save you, then you have fallen from grace.

BluntBoy:


alBHAGDADI,

You have become so desperate of late. I am beginning to believe that you are a pastor.

Anyway, tomorrow (Sunday), I shall put this matter of tithe and first fruit to rest once and for all, using just two Bible verses.

You haven't seen me yet you have concluded . It says a lot about you.

alBHAGDADI:


You haven't seen me yet you have concluded . It says a lot about you.

What conclusion did I make

I wrote that I was beginning to believe...

That is not a conclusive statement.

lalasticlala

alBHAGDADI:
lalasticlala

You're not a Christian militant, Apologist, Writer, Polemicist to Islam, Crusader only, you hereby are now a confirmed front page junkie

MuttleyLaff:
You're not a Christian militant, Apologist, Writer, Polemicist to Islam, Crusader only, you hereby are now a confirmed front page junkie

Yes, as long as it helps me spread the truth, Amen.

alBHAGDADI:
Yes, as long as it helps me spread the truth, Amen.

Yes, to you sucking up for front page? Stop the shenanigans, nonsense and gimmick already. It's a complete turn off.

If your false bullshits, that you masquerade as truth, is worthy enough, it will find itself on front page by its own merit and without begging to be given a leg up.
God forbid your false bullshit(s) make front page

MuttleyLaff:
Yes, to sucking up for front page?
Stop the shenanigans, nonsense and gimmick already. It's a complete turn off.
If your false bullshit, that you masquerade as truth, is worthy enough, it will find itself on front page by its own merit and without begging to be given a leg up.
God forbid your false bullshit(s) make front page

Why are you bothered about what I chose to do?

Are you an antagonist of the Gospel?

alBHAGDADI:

We are barely days into the New Year and those against tithe/firstfruits have already started launching their attack on the doctrine. According to these people, the concept of firstfruits is not a doctrine for Christians because we are not under the law of Moses. What they fail to know is that even before the forefathers of Moses were born, God had been collecting first fruits from humans. This post will show that it is God himself that ordained the collection of firstfruits and it is not subject to any law.

The first person recorded to have given first fruit or firstling is Abel the son of Adam and Eve. He and his brother Cain were told to do so By God.

Genesis 4:4
And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:

You see, whenever we mention Abel as someone who gave first fruit way before the law of Moses, all those anti-tithers love to give excuses to rubbish such point. One of the excuses they give is that God didn't command or order him to bring any first fruit, which means he did it of his own free will. Before I show you that it is God that commanded Abel and Cain to make that sacrifice, I will first of all like to show you that these anti-tithers understand nothing about the Bible. They don't understand because they lack the spirit of God, that's why someone can deceive them easily against tithing.

1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and
they are life.

They lack the spirit of God, that's why they don't understand the word of God which is spiritually discerned. Now, let me show you that God gave the command for Abel and Cain to offer sacrifice unto him. See what the Bible said below.

Hebrews 11:4
By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

Did you notice the words in bold above? The above verse says Abel offered sacrifice to God by faith. This means he believed in the word of God and proceeded to offer the sacrifice. This clearly shows that the word of God told him to do what he did, meaning he didn't do it if his own free will. See what the Bible says about faith and the word of God below.

Romans 10:17
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

As seen above, you can't have faith without hearing the word of God. Now, if the Bible in Hebrews 11:4 says Abel had faith in God towards offering a sacrifice, then it means he heard the word of God telling him to offer the sacrifice. He heard the word of God and had faith in it which made him carry out the command.

It's now ridiculous for people who lack understanding of the Bible to sit somewhere and start saying God never commanded Abel to bring first fruits or firstlings. They read the Bible like it's a romance novel, that's why they never grab anything from the word which is spirit.

It is that same practice of Abel that Abraham followed, his grandson Jacob followed and also the children of Israel under the law of Moses. God is still the same yesterday, today and forever. He change not. If he collected first fruit from the people of old even way before the law of Moses, then what makes you think he has changed?

Malachi 3:6
For I am the LORD , I change not;

Yes, I understand that many are angry that today's pastors have abused this doctrine and have enriched themselves with it to the point of living in opulence and flying in jets. But that doesn't mean we should throw away the doctrine which is the word of God. Throwing it away because of them is like throwing away the baby with the bath water.

If you feel your church is one those who have abused this doctrine, then find another church which hasn't; they exist. Mind you, not all churches are really the house of God. As long as the message they preach is works based salvation and not saved by grace alone, then such is not the house of God. Such churches are an example of Cain and his offering. That is why most people who pay first fruits there are not really getting blessed. Let me show you why they are Cain.

Remember we established above that it was the word of God that made Cain and Abel make sacrifice unto God. But how come God rejected Cain's sacrifice but accepted Abel's?

Cain failed to follow instruction given by God's word. How do we know what this instruction is? We know this from Abel's sacrifice which the Bible says God had respect for. Abel made a blood sacrifice unto God, he sacrificed a lamb. Had it been Cain did the same thing, his sacrifice would have been accepted too. Rather, he offered fruits of the ground while Abel offered the blood of a lamb which represents the blood of Jesus Christ who is this Holy Lamb.

Cain's offering was based on his works. He thought if he offered an offering based on his sweat of tilling the soil and harvesting the produce, God will be more pleased by his effort. He failed to obey simple instruction of offering blood sacrifice, instead he relied on his WORKS. His sacrifice represents work based salvation, hence the reason why God rejected it.

Abel on the other hand followed the instructions God gave. He didnt rely on his works but relied on the blood of the lamb which is the same as relying on the blood of Jesus which was sacrificed on the cross. That is what God wants us to do today. But these dubious churches have changed the gospel and are now selling a work based salvation where people No longer rely on the sacrifice of Jesus but on their works of righteousness or their ability not to sin. They have turned their congregation into people who will present works of righteousness which the Bible calls filthy rags before God as their means of salvation.

Isaiah 64:6
But we are all as an unclean thing , and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags;

They do not know that we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. And it is not of our works lest any man should boast.

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

So, if your church is telling you that you can lose your salvation and that salvation involves works, then that is a clear pointer that such a place is not the house of God. That is why the pastors of such churches are very wealthy because they do not believe in God and have fleeced the sheep to stupor. If you continue to give your money whether in offering, tithe or first fruit, just know that your money is not reaching God. It's the same as going to GTBank to send Money to me when I don't bank with them. The money won't get to me. You have to look for the right bank which I have an account with before I can receive the money.

To all those who go about telling people Not to pay tithe or give Money to church, be careful or else God will descend on you.

Hebrews 10:31
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

You know little about God's word yet you are going about persuading people to disobeying him. If you have decided not to pay to churches, so be it. But going about telling others to do the same is very dangerous.

Many will come to this thread to try to rubbish it by saying I'm a pastor trying to defend my cake. I'm not a pastor neither do I have a church. People who make such claims only do so to prove they are on the wrong. They attack the messenger while they neglect the message. That is being guilty.

I have a question.

Abel had lots of sheep and gave the first offspring as a sacrifice.

Here's my question, you just got a job and u either borrowed money or begged money for transport in ya first month. Ya first salary came, r u saying that God is requesting this money from u as first fruit?

alBHAGDADI:
Why are you bothered about what I chose to do?

I am not at all bothered about what you chose or chose not to do. It doesnt disturb me.
However I disapprove of your false bullshits you masquerade as Gospel, yes, I will defend to the death your right, to say each and everyone of your false bullshits, but I would not take it light, you sucking up to obtaining a leg up, for shoving and ramming the false bullshits down everyone's throats

alBHAGDADI:
Are you an antagonist of the Gospel?

My antecedent doesnt show me to be an antagonist of the Good News but yours is at variance with the core and liberating messages of the Good News

Chai na wa ohh
so first fruit is also 10% of one's wages according to the OP?

alBHAGDADI:


Please stay away from all those Bible translations. They are actually Satan's handwork in that they pervert God's word. Same thing with NIV and NLT.

The only translation I recommend is the KING JAMES VERSION which is older than all these modern and Satan inspired Bibles. Research more on the. and you will see that they call Jesus Satan.

Ohhh My God!

alBHAGDADI:


Tithe includes money otherwise it would make no sense for the man below to say he pays a tithe of all he possesses. This definitely must include money which was a possession then

Luke 18:12
I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

Even Abraham when he gave Melchizedek/Jesus tithe, the Bible records that he gave a tithe of all. This definitely shows that money is included because he must have gotten money and gold from the spoils of war.

Genesis 14:20
And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.

Oga na plunder nah aka "war spoils"....how money take enter war spoils?
There is also a difference between a parable and a then existing law....!
Jesus used the illustration to show the emptiness and hypocrisies of the Pharisees!
Chai Chai

alBHAGDADI:


If money tithe was wrong, Jesus would have condemned the Pharisee for that. Rather, he condemned him for boasting about it. This clearly shows that money tithe was part of tithing then and Jesus never condemned it.

That scripture was a parable where Jesus was illustrating the carnal and dangerous mind of the Pharisees which ran contrary to the laws of moses then!
So you are going to obey the carnal worship of a Pharisee simply becos it has to do with "money" in the parable of Christ?
Ohh lord...smh

openmine:

That scripture was a parable where Jesus was illustrating the carnal and dangerous mind of the Pharisees which ran contrary to the laws of moses then!
So you are going to obey the carnal worship of a Pharisee simply becos it has to do with "money" in the parable of Christ?
Ohh lord...smh

Did Christ condemn him for paying tithe in that manner or for boasting about it?

openmine:

Oga na plunder nah aka "war spoils"....how money take enter war spoils?
There is also a difference between a parable and a then existing law....!
Jesus used the illustration to show the emptiness and hypocrisies of the Pharisees!
Chai Chai

How agricultural produce take enter spoils of war?

Don't you know that money, agricultural produce, shields, swords, horses etc were part of what the people of old always take to war? The money was used to pay soldiers their wages and buy more supplies, while the agricultural produce served as food.

openmine:
Ohhh My God!

Read below.

http://www.faithfulwordbaptist.org/nwobv_full_english.html