Logicbwoy:
Speciation. Split between species.

tintingz: fairy tales

Logicbwoy:
1) incompleteness of the Quran;
Unlike the bible, the Quran can not stand alone as a book for many muslims. This debunks millions upon millions upon muslims. If the Quran is complete why do they need other books like the Hadith? There is no mention of circumcision in the Quran nor is there mention of Hajj (pilgrimage) and so many other practices.

However, there are Quranists that rely on the Quran alone. However, they are minorities in the Islamic world. However, we can still debunk the Quranists with the fact that the Quran does not have a complete record of Muhammads life. Many aspects of Muhammad's life are in the Hadith and are not in the Quran. Furthermore,
there is no punishment or condemnation of slavery as the most evil thing in the Quran.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quranism

However, we can put the final nail in the coffin on this issue with the "modern lawyer" argument. The Quran is also a book of law. Any lawyer today will tell you that laws need to be updated and changed due to many advancements of humanity and society. For instance, laws regarding the internet changed to apply libel and slander to facebook and twitter comments. Can the Quran legislate on videogames?Is it wrong for my videogame character to eat pork in a videogame? Is it as sin to open a facebook profile for the prophet Muhammad? If the Quran is complete, why can it not legislate on the internet? Why can it not legislate stem cell research?

olasesi:

i am a muslim and i av noticed that the free thinkers have not over the years proved any reasonble, contrary to what they claim.....
the above post is a sheer display of ignorance.....

now KNOW......
the quran is seen by the muslims as the word of God. Not of muhammed or his companions....
it is the last testament; a round up of all the previous scriptures that has gone b4 it......
so it is expected that it contains the most significant of everything.......

since muhammed was born and brought up among the arabs why then should i expect that the Quran tells me about him....
....i think that's the job of the Arabs(his companions)
i mean the Quran needs not tell me about how he walked, talked etc.. i think the arabs should(in the books of the hadith)......

if the quran had contained the life story muhammed, then the arabs would be sure to have said "we know and why are u telling us this when we are the ones who brought u up"........

the quran contains law, description of paradise, hell, angels, stories of the people b4 us, lessons etc......
the hadith(a book containing the sayings and doings of the prophet) contains how he did those things commanded by Allah in the Quran....

Quran 3:132 says
"obey Allah and his messenger"
so we ask........"in what book are the laws and commandments of the prophet so that we can obey them?".....ofcourse in the hadith
this means the quran directs to the hadith....

infact, your above claim is among the numerous reasons why muslims think the Quran is the word of God.......
if it had been of muhammed, then you would be sure to get various verses and chapters of it dedicated to his mother, wives and Kids....
his name and those of his relatives would become replete in it.
he was only mentioned 5 times by name in the Quran....
this should not surprise at all as the quran is not the book of muhammed.......it's not a story book either....

and who says there is no mention of "hajj" in the Quran?.
quran 22:27 .....
"And proclaim to the people the Hajj [pilgrimage]; they will come to you on foot and on every lean camel; they will come from every distant pass "

......and on slavery.....
you should know that .....
there is NOT a single verse of the Quran that commands or encourages the taking up of slaves.........
what u find are numerous verses of it encouraging the free of them...........
because the slavery was deep rooted in the heart of the arabs, it was then neccesary to withdraw it from them slowly....this sre one of the numerous ways the Quran corrects the excesses of the people.......
......some excesses were suppressed e.g slavery, some were cut short completely and some were gradually surpressed till finally withdrawn e.g the case of alcohol....
but the reason why this tactic was applied to the case of slavery is unknown to me.....maybe because God saw that the days of the end of slavery was near......and of course this method could not be applied to the case of alcohol as it did not appear that this case will ever end(i.e people didnt seem to be inclined to quiting alcohol) nevertheless it was first surpressed b4 finally withdrawn ......

you should also know that slavery was wrong relative to time.......and it was not only in arabia that slavery was prevalent.....it was generally seen as a culture.......
and certainly, u would not be this inclined to condemning it if u existed at that time...(especially if u were the son of a king)
i would probably own mine if i existed at that time........
some form of slavery has been known to begin from the war front...a situation where the victorous side takes their enemies as slaves.....
but the alternative doesnt seem better ....... i mean now that the is no more slavery, when two forces meet at the war front the most powerful side completely anhillates the weaker side. Even if he had the chance to take them as slaves.....i am not a proponent of slavery but i was just wondering.....

muhammed was called a poet,madman, the possessed etc by his foes......but certainly not "a slave taker" ......of course they didnt see it as wrong...

Also,why should the quran refer to slavery as the most evil thing.......when murder is worse.
and trust me no one would be able stop the muslims from taking slaves if it truly was part of their religion.....you know the muslims for this

and on the "modern lawyer" argument
i think this point is very weak.....and not expected of a freethinker
"allah should update and change his laws because modern day lawyers think laws have to be updated because of advancemnet in humanity"......how weak a point.
maybe the lawyers should write a petition to him...
Allah created the heavens and the earth, he has knowledge of the the beginning and the end......so his laws TRANSCEND time.....
Dont worry about your progeny, the Quranic law will still be relevant to them e.g "do not go near adultery.........." in the year 4001.

"allah laws should be changed because laws regarding the internet changed to apply libel and slander to facebook and twitter comments"..........how funny.
some laws transcends time....e.g "no one is above the law"......
for example on the issue of POLYGAMY.....
eventhough the ratio of male to female at birth is fairly equal, the mortality rate is not, more men die than women and this is quite evident.
men are more involved in life treathening activities than women e.g there are more male pilots, soldiers, astronauts etc. more men await death sentence than women......
all this is evident in the life expectancy for males and females in all countries of the world where men quickly die than women except zimbabwe, swaziland, lesotho and afganistan where women are expected to die earlier than men.e.g nigeria the life expectancy of nigerian males is a year less than that of the women....with the women's life expectancy hovering around 47....even though this difference is small, it has been greatly multiplied by TIME making it evident that there are more femles than males.
and of course there are more widows than widowers.....
the united state has 4.8 million more women than men.......
AND now to the staunch proponents of MONOGAMY.....what solution do u propose for marraige for the excess females....
God created the universe and gave u the manuals(the Quran)....he was very much aware of the male-female ratio when he passed the polygamy law......
eventhough the females are not complaining much, at least our progeny will have something (the Quran ) to look up to by the year 46005 when the number of females would be sure to have multiplied by 100000000.
so u see, the laws of the Quran will be used in the year 46005 AD.........i wish u would be around to see for ur self.

and who says the Quran doesnt legislate on the internet, facebook etc..,,,it does...but unfortunately this legislation is only for the knowledgeable.

the Quran forbids idle and vain talks.
the prophet was reported to have said "whoever believes in allah and the last day of judgement should say good words or keep silent"
....so know what u post on ur walls and what u tweet.....
the quran encourages to lower ones gaze against bad things.......
so avoid pornograhic sites and dont use sexually explicite pictures as ur profile pix.
and of course female characters that are sexually provocative in video games should also be avoided....

all muslims male,female young and old are all the same except in their good work and rewards....rules that apply to one apply to the other unless specifically stated.......
so if some games or movies are rated 16 because they contain violence, strong words or sexual content, then such games or movies are also unworthy of an adult muslim....i mean an adult muslim should not also listen to vulgal words or watch sexually expicite materials.........
according to islam, there can be only two rating.......GENERAL and NOT SUITABLE FOR ANYBODY.........
even though many muslims including myself dont strictly obey this, unfortunatey, it doesnt prove anything.......

the Quran encourages that we ask the people of knowledge of something we know not i.e make research....
the prophet was reported to have said " seek knowledge beyond the cradles of the grave" he also said
"the quest for knowledge is incumbent upon every muslim"
.........what kind of knowledge
....any knowledge e.g the stem cell knowledge

Logicbwoy:


Yawn. You couldnt defend the Quran without the hadith.

olasesi:

HOW DO YOU THINK?!!!!!!!

"the Quran is wrong because it cannot be defended without the hadith"

Logicbwoy:
2) The Epic Fail of the Arabic Language;
Any muslim will tell you that you need to understand Arabic to fully understand the Quran. The Quran is originally written in Arabic.http://islam.about.com/od/arabiclanguage/a/arabic.htm

Unfortunately, many people do not see the epic fails in the above statement. I will list them out;

-Abraham and Moses did not speak Arabic, neither did Jesus (assuming they all existed). Many prophets before Muhammad did not speak this language
-Shouldnt God exist in more than one language?
-Comparing the bible, the bible's message can be fully understood in any language, even in my rarely spoken Nigerian language
-Shouldnt God/Allah make his message easily translatable from one language to the other rather than forcing Nigerians to learn Hausa, English and then Arabic?
-Why should God even choose Arabic? It is not the most popular, the oldest nor the most advanced language in the world.
-Can an illiterate read Arabic or any other language? So illiterates are not "real" muslims.

olasesi:

i used to think that to become reasonable one needs to become an atheist
....i am now beginning to reconsider.....
....i am sorry to say this...your reasoning is a subset of mine......i mean it just handles all of yours...
what exactly is your point?......are u saying the quran is wrong because abraham , Jesus and moses did not speak arabic....
are u saying that Logically/reasonably .....
all prophet must speak the same language if the message was truly was from one source(i.e it is false if the prophets speak different languages)
plz reason these questions out for urself and ask others to see if they will agree with u on this...

the Quran can as well be understood in any language.....show us a verse of it that cannot be understood....

HO!!!!! the translators have problem translating arabic to other languages.....uhhhhhhh?
God now forces people to learn a language........mtcheeeeeeeeeeeew........ pathetic

God chooses the language of his prophet to send his message to his people.......because it is neccesarry that the prophets first understand this message before it can be relayed to others......

there are numerous languages in the world and if one is to be taken randomly, certainly one of them will be chosen.......
but as much as you would love ur native language to be chosen, unfortunately it wasn't.........

if your language language was chosen, then another atheist of another country would be sure to bring up the same complain.......

one cannot but wonder how people reason....... "Arabic is a wrong choice of language because it is not the most popular, oldest or the most advanced"...does everyone agree with u on this?

as much as i would love to share my knowledge of islam with nonmuslims, some of their allegations are not worthy of response....
i mean is this the best u can offer....?
give it ur best shot..
impress me haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarder

tintingz: @broda olasesi may almighty Allah bless you for clearing tinz ese gan. . .don't mind that monkey believer logicboy, he's confused

Logicbwoy:
Willfull ignorance

tintingz: SMH say that to your monkey ancestors

Logicbwoy:
Keep choosing the Quran over science.
You didnt choose the Quran when using your computer and the internet. Your OS is made by an atheist, your computer is assembled in atheistic China and this website mad by an atheist- all of whom used knowledge of science to build these things.
You reject the theory of evolution but accept germ theory propounded by the same biologists

tintingz: the Quran dosn't condemn science or nature nor we muslims condemn science. . .infact many scholars have used science to prove the miracle of the Quran even scienctists have proven the miracle of the Quran and they accept it.

Logicbwoy:
Is this the lie that your imam tells you?
Inbreeding causes deformations in childbirth. Why does the Quran allow marriage of first cousins?

Logicboy03: Bump

JesusIsTruth:
I completely agree with what you have said about the Quran and how it is fake. The Quran takes aspects from different religions and puts it together and then changes it to Mohammads liking. Apparently and angel told Mohammed what to write however the angel strangled him. If you read the Old Testement and the New Testement you can see that angels come in peace and therefore it suggests that it was the devil that revealed Islam to Mohammed. Allah counts people as salves as far as I am concerned God is loving and as a Catholic Christian my God thinks of me as his child.

The Quran puts more importance for Jesus than Mohammed, the only women in the Quran is Mary. Every religion points towards Jesus no matter what everyone will have to accept the truth that Jesus Christ is the Lord.