andromida: Most rude people lack confidence anyway.

But most Nigerians I have met do not know that. The Nigerian kids here . . . . somehow think the one equals the other. And when you meet the parents you realize why.

I agree with all that kobo has said. You train your child on how to live life, not on the basis of marriage. What if you don't get married? That is why many girls beat themselves up when they are not married at a certain age. As I mentioned before, some parents correct their kids with words like 'no man will marry you if you did this or that' not because it is just wrong to do so. Values like respect, politeness are needed in all facets of life. Teaching your child these values is just killing two birds with one stone, that you don't need a memorandum for your child to know when she/he is being disrespected before or after marriage.

I think parents have roles to play as said. Funny enough everyone who shared a story has a loving parent My fear is of people who may think they'r doomed because they fall in the other group--they have the other kind of parents, probably the abusive ones. So, here's what I think.

While having parents who call you beautiful, good hearted and all the good qualities in this world, even when you don't have those qualities has a role to play, I think the most important part to self esteem is YOU.

My mother thinks am the most beautiful young woman in the world and when anyone speaks of something good about anyone around my grandma, she'd say that person is beautiful but my children are much more beautiful . I was very thin while growing up and even though people teased me as too thin, my mama made me realize I was a princess.

But the most Important thing that has shaped my life and made me realise how worthy I am is when I discovered whom I am, what I wanted from life and how I wanted to achieve it. It gave me a sense of purpose and I simply stopped taking less than I deserve from anyone and I think that is self respect.

I dont care too much about what anyone thinks of my looks. Even if I would spend my last bucks on it, it was for me and for me alone and not for anyone's approval. Any disapproval, if in the form of an advice would be well received but any jest is shoven aside. It doesn't get at me.

well, I hope I wrote that humbly

..

deols: I think parents have roles to play as said. Funny enough everyone who shared a story has a loving parent My fear is of people who may think they'r doomed because they fall in the other group--they have the other kind of parents, probably the abusive ones. So, here's what I think.

While having parents who call you beautiful, good hearted and all the good qualities in this world, even when you don't have those qualities has a role to play, I think the most important part to self esteem is YOU.

My mother thinks am the most beautiful young woman in the world and when anyone speaks of something good about anyone around my grandma, she'd say that person is beautiful but my children are much more beautiful . I was very thin while growing up and even though people teased me as too thin, my mama made me realize I was a princess.

But the most Important thing that has shaped my life and made me realise how worthy I am is when I discovered whom I am, what I wanted from life and how I wanted to achieve it. It gave me a sense of purpose and I simply stopped taking less than I deserve from anyone and I think that is self respect.

I dont care too much about what anyone thinks of my looks. Even if I would spend my last bucks on it, it was for me and for me alone and not for anyone's approval. Any disapproval, if in the form of an advice would be well received but any jest is shoven aside. It doesn't get at me.

well, I hope I wrote that humbly

True that the self worth that comes from self discovery is amazing.

Kobojunkie:

But most Nigerians I have met do not know that. The Nigerian kids here . . . . somehow think the one equals the other. And when you meet the parents you realize why.

This is sooooo true. Many parents with ill mannered,loud mouth kids actually think they are sharp.You here them saying so and so is so sharp after a rude display.

andromida:

This is sooooo true. Many parents with ill mannered,loud mouth kids actually think they are sharp.You here them saying so and so is so sharp after a rude display.

That thing pisses me off ehn! That is why I tend to avoid any relationship with African women who have kids. Cause person fit mistake slap one of those monkeys for real . . .

Some of the other things I notice is when it comes to mostly Africans I have encountered, we mistake the "I AM ALL THAT AND A BAG OF CHIPS" approach to loving self as being self-confident/healthy self esteem. The two no dey mix. . .

@ ronkp & kobojunkie Well i agree that we train our children how to live indeed, so i wont train my daughter to behave like a western girl in Nigeria, it wont be to her advantage. So my beleif is yes when in Rome do like the Roman's. I am not saying i beleive in this practice but i cant change the societal norms so i have choosen to adapt. When i return home to Canada I know my role over their and i then adapt to life in Western world. If your mind will allow you to understand a person can adapt to a role that some may preceive to be depreiving, self hating, low self esteem etc. But the person can actually know themselves well enough to know its a role then are taking on and it in no way defines their worth/self value.

agiboma: @ ronkp & kobojunkie Well i agree that we train our children how to live indeed, so i wont train my daughter to behave like a western girl in Nigeria, it wont be to her advantage. So my beleif is yes when in Rome do like the Roman's. I am not saying i beleive in this practice but i cant change the societal norms so i have choosen to adapt. When i return home to Canada I know my role over their and i then adapt to life in Western world. If your mind will allow you to understand a person can adapt to a role that some may preceive to be depreiving, self hating, low self esteem etc. But the person can actually know themselves well enough to know its a role then are taking on and it in no way defines their worth/self value.

There is no such thing as training your child as a western girl. If you live in the west, you will become westernized in your mannerism, at least to an extent. No man is an Island here. You forget that the west used to be a church state,but as time went on, people let go of their churchie ways and embraced even more liberal ideas and ways of raising kids. Every Society goes through changes.

If you however plan to isolate your child from the western world around her, and continually pound Nigerian ideals into her, you may end up making them feel like aliens in the west, if you are not careful.

If you attend a Nigerian church, you may have seen that, where parents try to make their children befriend other children from Nigeria rather than the children they meet at school, or their daily lives. What ends up happening in many of these cases is when those kids grow up, they continue to feel the are not a part of the society they live in.

I have met many a Nigerian who has been here for decades, but cannot get themselves to make a home here. Every other statement is "in Nigeria this . .. ", "Nigeria that . . .". You wonder if these people even realize that a whole world exists outside of Nigeria and they need to realize this to live.

Let me be clear, I am not saying you should not teach your kid in whatever way you want. It's your experiment at the end of the day. All I am saying is it would behoove us, even those who live in Nigeria, if the parents focused more on teaching their kids the basic/common sense ideals like RESPECTING ALL HUMANS(no matter their class or calibre), being kind, and considerate to all, what it means to be upright citizens in society, how to apply their best in all things, learning to give rather than recieve, Chose respect of self over arrogance, How to work hard etc. These are some of the values that are missing from our youths in Nigeria, those in the villages and our urban areas. Funny thing is the values that matter remain FOREIGN on a whole to the Nigerian society to date.

stillwater: I agree with all that kobo has said. You train your child on how to live life, not on the basis of marriage. What if you don't get married? That is why many girls beat themselves up when they are not married at a certain age. As I mentioned before, some parents correct their kids with words like 'no man will marry you if you did this or that' not because it is just wrong to do so. Values like respect, politeness are needed in all facets of life. Teaching your child these values is just killing two birds with one stone, that you don't need a memorandum for your child to know when she/he is being disrespected before or after marriage.

True that you train your child to live life, but marriage would still be a big and important part of that life for majority of women now and in the future. Let no feminist crap deceive most of you. So it should be part of their nurture.

Biology trumps over misplaced ideology anyday. Women will always need companionship. That is achieved through their attraction. Physical attraction fades for all humans (although it is less important for men). Women need marriage, or at least it will always be a useful tool, to tie down the one they got when they were attractive. Women will always love and want marriage. Pure facts. I am not a Real Man, I will be blunt.

I know a lot of women will struggle with hearing such. You might hate the fact that you are pseudo-dependent, but your hatred wouldn't stop it from being a fact. Call me MisterOgheneist if your like.

I don't agree with silly rebukes like 'no man will marry you if you did this or that', but passing on the values of marriage will be useful to most girls.

How many of our boys are equally "TRAINED FOR MARRIAGE" in much the same way?

***hisses*** As if this so-called "TRAINING FOR MARRIAGE" even prepares girls for reality, let alone married life.

Sagamite:


Biology trumps over misplaced ideology anyday. Women will always need companionship. That is achieved through their attraction. Physical attraction fades for all humans (although it is less important for men). Women need marriage, or at least it will always be a useful tool, to tie down the one they got when they were attractive. Women will always love and want marriage. Pure facts. I am not a Real Man, I will be blunt.

I know a lot of women will struggle with hearing such. You might hate the fact that you are pseudo-dependent, but your hatred wouldn't stop it from being a fact. Call me MisterOgheneist if your like

And men do not need companionship? They do not need marriage? Men are doing women a favour by marrying them? This thread is not about feminism but helping parents to raise women with a healthy dose of self worth, helping women to know they deserve to be treated like human beings and ladies/wife.Helping women to develop healthy self worth so they can attract better men and yes real mean.Also how to spot the difference. We all know alone is not good for anyone.

It depends what you call "training for marriage". I believe while training my kids (both boys and girls) for life, they will equally be trained to build, nurture and enjoy an healthy long-term romantic relationship, i.e. marriage. When you train children who are independent enough to take care of themselves (financially, but also cook, clean, rent a place, maintain a car etc.) , know their worth while still being humble enough, respect themselves and others and are altogether healthy and happy people who can maintain healthy and peaceful relationships (with friends, family, at work etc.), I believe you have also prepared them for a happy long-lasting marriage. There is no need to keep marriage in your mind as the ultimate goal for their training, as long as you train them for life and good interactions with people, they'll know how to pick the right partner, commit and be responsible for their choices.

As for agiboma, I think the way you view things depend a lot on the sacrifices you had to make yourself to "fit in" the nigerian society, or those you feel you had to make. Though i want to raise my children (boys and girls) to know and respect the nigerian traditions (at least those that make sense to their father), I don't see the need to tune down any "western" character that will certainly show in them. They are as western as they are nigerians, and if my husband and I are able to raise children, it's because we build our family on values that are neither nigerian or western, they are human values (though the way they are displayed can vary, which will be taught to our kids) : respect (for yourself and others), honesty, responsibility, hard work, patience, humility and so on.
I plan for my kids to have healthy marriages that work like partnerships, I don't want my daughter to accept suffering or unfair treatment because she is a girl. There is a big difference in doing things in a marriage because you agree and are willing to do it, and accepting the same things because you see no way out, or you don't have the choice. I don't want her to "fit in" just for the sake of "fitting in", I hope she will only fit in with decent, respectful people, no matter their nationality/gender/age etc.

Kobojunkie: How many of our boys are equally "TRAINED FOR MARRIAGE" in much the same way?

***hisses*** As if this so-called "TRAINING FOR MARRIAGE" even prepares girls for reality, let alone married life.

Maybe the more sensible thing to say then is that boys should also be trained for marriage instead of saying girls should not. And the training for girls should be more aligned to reality. Am I wrong?

I know a bit about continuous improvement. Lean, Six Sigma, Kaizen and shyt like that. And your approach will not get black belt in them.

Because when it fails both side lose but guess which one tends to lose more.

If you don't know, don't ask a Real Man because he would not give you a honest answer.

andromida:
And men do not need companionship? They do not need marriage? Men are doing women a favour by marrying them? This thread is not about feminism but helping parents to raise women with a healthy dose of self worth, helping women to know they deserve to be treated like human beings and ladies/wife.Helping women to develop healthy self worth so they can attract better men and yes real mean.Also how to spot the difference. We all know alone is not good for anyone.

Not as much as women.

Woman offer sex for companionship, men offer companion for sex.

Men are on average less emotional. Men tend to be comfortable with far more multiple partners, and nobody should come with some lame "it is society". When you know it, it starts with a "B".

Biological, baby! You can't defeat it. Baba God lo she (Na God make am).

One thing that subtlely irritates me sometimes about women is when they think their emotional wish will change facts or nature.

As I have always said, I live my life based on reality and try and adjust to it as best as it suits me. A lot of women would do so well and improve their happiness if they did the same. What I keep hearing them say a lot of times is 'should', and I am like, "Shut up, focus on 'would'" (i.e. when it is not a man-made law)! Their lives would improve tremendously if they did.

Sit there and keep on hoping men should want companionship and marriage like you want it.

Miss_Ife: It depends what you call "training for marriage". I believe while training my kids (both boys and girls) for life, they will equally be trained to build, nurture and enjoy an healthy long-term romantic relationship, i.e. marriage. When you train children who are independent enough to take care of themselves (financially, but also cook, clean, rent a place, maintain a car etc.) , know their worth while still being humble enough, respect themselves and others and are altogether healthy and happy people who can maintain healthy and peaceful relationships (with friends, family, at work etc.), I believe you have also prepared them for a happy long-lasting marriage. There is no need to keep marriage in your mind as the ultimate goal for their training, as long as you train them for life and good interactions with people, they'll know how to pick the right partner, commit and be responsible for their choices.

As for agiboma, I think the way you view things depend a lot on the sacrifices you had to make yourself to "fit in" the nigerian society, or those you feel you had to make. Though i want to raise my children (boys and girls) to know and respect the nigerian traditions (at least those that make sense to their father), I don't see the need to tune down any "western" character that will certainly show in them. They are as western as they are nigerians, and if my husband and I are able to raise children, it's because we build our family on values that are neither nigerian or western, they are human values (though the way they are displayed can vary, which will be taught to our kids) : respect (for yourself and others), honesty, responsibility, hard work, patience, humility and so on.
I plan for my kids to have healthy marriages that work like partnerships, I don't want my daughter to accept suffering or unfair treatment because she is a girl. There is a big difference in doing things in a marriage because you agree and are willing to do it, and accepting the same things because you see no way out, or you don't have the choice. I don't want her to "fit in" just for the sake of "fitting in", I hope she will only fit in with decent, respectful people, no matter their nationality/gender/age etc.

Absolutely fcking well said.

Black belt!

Because when it fails both side lose but guess which one tends to lose more

Actually its the society that loses more. Increase in broken homes,children out of wedlock etc etc
Its not a war of the sexes.


Sit there and keep on hoping men should want companionship and marriage like you want it.

The reality is there are many men who want marriage and companionship too.

Sagamite:

Maybe the more sensible thing to say then is that boys should also be trained for marriage instead of saying girls should not. And the training for girls should be more aligned to reality. Am I wrong?

I know a bit about continuous improvement. Lean, Six Sigma, Kaizen and shyt like that. And your approach will not get black belt in them.

Because when it fails both side lose but guess which one tends to lose more.

If you don't know, don't ask a Real Man because he would not give you a honest answer.

There is nothing sensible about asking that boys be equally trained for marriage because there is no proof that the so-called training that women get, even works, both here in the developed world and in the non-developed world. And are you suggesting that the "trained for marriage" women are winning, today? Please show me cause I don't see where that is happening. I know of a couple of "trained for marriage" women who are abandoned wives.

I would rather we raised HEALTHY ADULTS, both male and female, and should they get into relationships, they are equipped to handle the day to day surprises that await them. Not trained monkeys who EXPECT things to go one way and when it doesn't they either panic or make decisions that at the end of the day learn to bigger problems for themselves and maybe for society. I don't think you can FAIL when you raise a child with a healthy self-esteem, ready to tackle whatever life throws at em.

What the heck is a real man now?

andromida:
Actually its the society that loses more. Increase in broken homes,children out of wedlock etc etc
Its not a war of the sexes.
Sit there and keep on hoping men should want companionship and marriage like you want it.
The reality is there are many men who want marriage and companionship too.

Broken homes have nothing to do with lack of "training for marriage". Majority of African women today in abandoned/broken marriages WERE TRAINED by their mothers, and fathers. I am sure you know a couple of homes where the fathers/mothers essentially abandoned their homes, leaving the women with no resources with which to take care of the kids.

Let's not now pretend that "TRAINING FOR MARRIAGE" somehow keeps marriages together. We see a lot of people, even on this board, come with stories of how they did everything as they were TRAINED to but somehow it did not go the way they expected. Why is that? Because many, rather than dissect every situation as it comes, were most likely thought that there is one way and one way only to do these things, essentially applying solutions what they assume are "one size fits all" solutions.

This is not about feminism, but about raising women as humans beings. Let them be equals and think of their own. Let them dissect issues of their own. Life DOES NOT OFFER a template on how everyone should do things, and so I don't see reason in raising a child to FOLLOW a template that has yet to work for even the majority. Let every woman think on her own to solve HER OWN LIFE and or marriage.

Miss_Ife: It depends what you call "training for marriage". I believe while training my kids (both boys and girls) for life, they will equally be trained to build, nurture and enjoy an healthy long-term romantic relationship, i.e. marriage. When you train children who are independent enough to take care of themselves (financially, but also cook, clean, rent a place, maintain a car etc.) , know their worth while still being humble enough, respect themselves and others and are altogether healthy and happy people who can maintain healthy and peaceful relationships (with friends, family, at work etc.), I believe you have also prepared them for a happy long-lasting marriage. There is no need to keep marriage in your mind as the ultimate goal for their training, as long as you train them for life and good interactions with people, they'll know how to pick the right partner, commit and be responsible for their choices.

What you've described is not "training for marriage" but what I would term training for life . . training them to be well-rounded individuals. However their is training for marriage many here know what I mean by that. You go to some homes and you immediately realize that the kids are being prepared for marriage, not necessarily for life itself.

Also I don't think you can train or prepare someone for a happy long-lasting marriage. What I think can happen is that parents can show their kids, through example, what is right from wrong, so those kids on seeing that know what to accept and what not to accept. If however, these kids are from some of these broken homes, then it becomes hard for them but the WISE(well-rounded ones) are able to understand that what is going on is wrong, but we know a lot of kids instead go on to REPEAT the mistakes of their past.
I have a colleague who I work projects with. His parents have been married for over 43 years now, and he has a good picture in his head of what a good marriage can be, but he has not been successful in marriage. He has been divorced twice, and has a kid from his first marriage. I had an interesting conversation with him where he talked of how, in each of his former marriages, he tried to be like his father(because the picture of a good husband he has is that of his father). So, his new strategy, in his current relationship is to be as much as possible. He does the most of the chores in the house since his wife can't cook or clean, but he enjoys the relationship as himself, he said.

andromida: Because when it fails both side lose but guess which one tends to lose more

Actually its the society that loses more. Increase in broken homes,children out of wedlock etc etc
Its not a war of the sexes.

Yes society loses. But have you ever wondered why it ends up being called a man's world?

You are free to deny facts if you want, but it will still be facts.

andromida:
Sit there and keep on hoping men should want companionship and marriage like you want it.

The reality is there are many men who want marriage and companionship too.

Yep. But, by and large they are normally, the less attractive options to most women until the women pass their prime and want to settle down.

Research (I saw some years ago on TV) shows an ideal scenario for women is to be boned by the bad boy (dashing and mysterious looking men) while the good guy is the one they prefer to raise the child with. Hence their choices of partners (attraction to potential partners) changes depending on the time of the month. Anecdoctally, this is reflected in instictive choices of women when they are young (with biological time in hand) and have choices. From the docu implication is when women are pre-ovulation, they are more likely to give number to harder looking men. Post-ovulation, softer looking guys are likely to be more attractive and have a chance.

Women call themselves complex. I agree, I accept that fact and I manage it as best as possible to Saga Saga's advantage and privilege. I can't change them. Mi o lagbara e (I no get the power). All I do in life is to try and get as much relevant information about complex things so I can make an informed decision, not wishful thinking one.

Kobojunkie:

There is nothing sensible about asking that boys be equally trained for marriage because there is no proof that the so-called training that women get, even works, both here in the developed world and in the non-developed world. And are you suggesting that the "trained for marriage" women are winning, today? Please show me cause I don't see where that is happening. I know of a couple of "trained for marriage" women who are abandoned wives.

I would rather we raised HEALTHY ADULTS, both male and female, and should they get into relationships, they are equipped to handle the day to day surprises that await them. Not trained monkeys who EXPECT things to go one way and when it doesn't they either panic or make decisions that at the end of the day learn to bigger problems for themselves and maybe for society. I don't think you can FAIL when you raise a child with a healthy self-esteem, ready to tackle whatever life throws at em.

What the heck is a real man now?

Really?

So you think you can train people for life but you can't train them for a sub-section of it (marriage and relationships).

Really?

You want to waste my time with illogical and emotional arguments?

Sagamite:

Really?

So you think you can train people for life but you can't train them for a sub-section of it (marriage and relationships).

Really?

You want to waste my time with illogical and emotional arguments?

um . . . Life in general, you can offer advice for. Training a child for life implies getting them ready to better handle the many bricks that life throws at most everyone of us.For instance, training a child on anger management, helps at least equip that kid with skills that help them better handle situations where they find themselves loosing it because of what something or something has done. It is easier to apply common sense solutions when it comes to training kids for life. However relationships are a more complex "sub-section" - it is hard to find a template/one-size-fits-all solution for. To this day, there are no templates on how to handle many of the issues that arise in relationships. That is why in this day and age, people are more and more encouraged to go seek out help from counselors, pastors, etc. Because no matter how much training you get, no matter how much common sense you know of, when you add a second human being to the equation, the situation becomes even more unpredictable, and complex.
That is why many parents focus at least training/instilling values that equip their kids with healthy self-esteem so that whatever life/relationship throws at them in the end, they(the kids themselves) are better able to handle it(not fall apart), and make right decisions for.

agiboma: @ ronkp & kobojunkie Well i agree that we train our children how to live indeed, so i wont train my daughter to behave like a western girl in Nigeria, it wont be to her advantage. So my beleif is yes when in Rome do like the Roman's. I am not saying i beleive in this practice but i cant change the societal norms so i have choosen to adapt. When i return home to Canada I know my role over their and i then adapt to life in Western world. If your mind will allow you to understand a person can adapt to a role that some may preceive to be depreiving, self hating, low self esteem etc. But the person can actually know themselves well enough to know its a role then are taking on and it in no way defines their worth/self value.

Thank you my sister, I was beginning to think there were no Nigerians or people living in Nigeria on this thread.

Why do these second hand white people always use the the word "we" when what they really mean is "we British" or "we Americans" or "we Australians" or any other country they were able to squeeze into? In Nigeria 62% of the people are Muslim and/ or live in the north, how does any of the "lets all be white" posts here resonate with the REAL Nigerians not the one who come here in between dreams of leaving Nigeria to go and "braid hair" or "sew" or "wipe white azzes"? Why do these second class whites think that we - Nigerians - want to be like them? And God forbid , that our children should be like them? How for the love of God can I train my children to be like people for whom I have absolutely no respect?

Kobojunkie:

um . . . Life in general, you can offer advice for. Training a child for life implies getting them ready to better handle the many bricks that life throws at most everyone of us.For instance, training a child on anger management, helps at least equip that kid with skills that help them better handle situations where they find themselves loosing it because of what something or something has done. It is easier to apply common sense solutions when it comes to training kids for life. However relationships are a more complex "sub-section" - it is hard to find a template/one-size-fits-all solution for. To this day, there are no templates on how to handle many of the issues that arise in relationships. That is why in this day and age, people are more and more encouraged to go seek out help from counselors, pastors, etc. Because no matter how much training you get, no matter how much common sense you know of, when you add a second human being to the equation, the situation becomes even more unpredictable, and complex.
That is why many parents focus at least training/instilling values that equip their kids with healthy self-esteem so that whatever life/relationship throws at them in the end, they(the kids themselves) are better able to handle it(not fall apart), and make right decisions for.

Really?

So you can do all these magic for life but it cannot be done for marriage and relationships.

Marriage and relationships are not part of life?

Marriage and relationships are less complex than life in general?

And life is ONE human being?

So you would train YOUR child on life but leave out the most critical and, according to you, complex part of it out and tell them "Figure it out yourself jor".

What can I say. "Amazing"!

Sagamite:

Really?

So you can do all these magic for life but it cannot be done for marriage and relationships.

Marriage and relationships are not part of life?

Marriage and relationships are less complex than life in general?

And life is ONE human being?

So you would train YOUR child on life but leave out the most critical and, according to you, complex part of it out and tell them "Figure it out yourself jor".

What can I say. "Amazing"!

What magic? Training your child in something you probably don't even have a good handle on in your case, is far more critical than training your child on common sense ways to handle all things as they come?

Again . . .

Kobojunkie:

um . . . Life in general, you can offer advice for. Training a child for life implies getting them ready to better handle the many bricks that life throws at most everyone of us.For instance, training a child on anger management, helps at least equip that kid with skills that help them better handle situations where they find themselves loosing it because of what something or something has done. It is easier to apply common sense solutions when it comes to training kids for life. However relationships are a more complex "sub-section" - it is hard to find a template/one-size-fits-all solution for. To this day, there are no templates on how to handle many of the issues that arise in relationships. That is why in this day and age, people are more and more encouraged to go seek out help from counselors, pastors, etc. Because no matter how much training you get, no matter how much common sense you know of, when you add a second human being to the equation, the situation becomes even more unpredictable, and complex.
That is why many parents focus at least training/instilling values that equip their kids with healthy self-esteem so that whatever life/relationship throws at them in the end, they(the kids themselves) are better able to handle it(not fall apart), and make right decisions for.

Kobojunkie:
What magic? Training your child in something you probably don't even have a good handle on in your case, is far more critical than training your child on common sense ways to handle all things as they come?

Again . . .

So the argument is no more about the impossibility, it is about incompetence?

So there are no people successful in marriages and relationships and understand it? That is what you are saying.

So if no one can understand it and train it, then the kids will never be able to understand it too then. THEY ARE DOOMED!

It is best in your "life training" then to tell them to avoid relationships and marriage, it is the abyss.

Sagamite:

So the argument is no more about the impossibility, it is about incompetence?

So there are no people successful in marriages and relationships and understand it? That is what you are saying.

So if no one can understand it and train it, then the kids will never be able to understand it too then. THEY ARE DOOMED!

It is best in your "life training" then to tell them to avoid relationships and marriage, it is the abyss.

incompetence? "THEY ARE DOOMED"? "It is an abyss"?

um . . . . please remember to leave your delusions at the door.

I have no clue where you are in this or how to help get you back to the discussion.

Kobojunkie:

incompetence? "THEY ARE DOOMED"? "It is an abyss"?

um . . . . please remember to leave your delusions at the door.

I have no clue where you are in this or how to help get you back to the discussion.

Answer my gaddamn questions.

You did not think before you spoke?

Kobojunkie:

What you've described is not "training for marriage" but what I would term training for life . . training them to be well-rounded individuals. However their is training for marriage many here know what I mean by that. You go to some homes and you immediately realize that the kids are being prepared for marriage, not necessarily for life itself.

Also I don't think you can train or prepare someone for a happy long-lasting marriage. What I think can happen is that parents can show their kids, through example, what is right from wrong, so those kids on seeing that know what to accept and what not to accept. If however, these kids are from some of these broken homes, then it becomes hard for them but the WISE(well-rounded ones) are able to understand that what is going on is wrong, but we know a lot of kids instead go on to REPEAT the mistakes of their past.

I don't know how you understood my post, but that is exactly the same thing I was saying. I consider bringing up healthy and well rounded individuals who can make decisions for themselves (and bear the consequences that go with those decisions) is the only adequate "training for marriage" parents can provide. As Andromida said, a "training for marriage" that only offers one way to follow and doesn't encourage individuals to think on their own and build a happy life for themselves is mainly useless. All in all, training kids for life, if properly done, should be enough training for all aspects of their adult life (career, finances, day-to-day challenges, relationships, marriage and so on).

Sagamite:

Answer my gaddamn questions.

You did not think before you spoke?

um . . . I can't because I have no clue what you are on about.

Kobojunkie:

um . . . I can't because I have no clue what you are on about.

You claim people cannot teach about marriage and relationship because they don't know it themselves.

So you are saying there are no people that know about marriage and relationships in this world?

Is that not delusion?

Miss_Ife:

I don't know how you understood my post, but that is exactly the same thing I was saying. I consider bringing up healthy and well rounded individuals who can make decisions for themselves (and bear the consequences that go with those decisions) is the only adequate "training for marriage" parents can provide. As Andromida said, a "training for marriage" that only offers one way to follow and doesn't encourage individuals to think on their own and build a happy life for themselves is mainly useless. All in all, training kids for life, if properly done, should be enough training for all aspects of their adult life (career, finances, day-to-day challenges, relationships, marriage and so on).

OK, there we agree.

It's just that I think a lot of us know what this "training for marriage" thing is. I mean you go to, say a village in the Eastern/Northern Part of the country for instance(anyone who takes this as an ethnic attack is a class A mor0n) and you find cases of girls being trained and talk to of how what they do wrong as kids, or do not get right as children, will affect their marriages. In the north, girls are almost often groomed for marriage. When you try to engage them, they don't seem to function outside of that mindset.

And these are some of the extreme examples out there. I mean even here in America, there are mothers who engage in this "training". There are some girls you will talk to and it seems that they almost think there identity revolves around the man they are married to/ will marry, that you can't seem to get them to be themselves, that is if they even have a self of their own.