@Mr Anony, did I ever mention some people wanting Heaven without God in it? Well, here's proof.

Kay 17:

The value for sentience rests on perception. Sentience exhibits certain unique attributes and identity we wish to protect.

I have addressed Morality so many times to you, that first of all, morality is basically rules and man being a rational being and by experience recognizes the necessity for foundational rules therefrom a community can exist. Altruism, bonds and Love keeps the Community and they are the most cherished values.

Even the humanist society needs them.

Ihedinobi:

lolllllllll............no stress, bro.........that was a friggin perfect response, nonetheless

@Kay 17

Mr_Anony:
My question is; How does altruism seat with a "self-defined" purpose: Bear in mind that altruism is basically selflessness.

Kay 17, surprise me by not trying to twist the meaning of altruism and divorce it from Love

cyrexx:

Damn! I love this guy

Ihedinobi: @Kay 17
Kay 17, surprise me by not trying to twist the meaning of altruism and divorce it from Love

Love is also selfless. I am not trying to twist anything. All I am asking is how can true love/altruism/selflessness can logically exist and have value in a society whose morality is based on the self?

cyrexx:


fine, just say so and dont pretend what you are not.

happy parroting in your online proselytizing crusade

best wishes.

Well my friend, as I said earlier, the choice is yours. It is your call if you reject Him, The choice is still yours should you choose to turn back to Him. The Fathers arms are always open for you to run into His embrace. Please don't get too far lost that you forget what home feels like.

Ihedinobi:

Damn! I love this guy

oh, im touched

* sincerely touched, really*

thanks. i appreciate

Mr_Anony:
Love is also selfless. I am not trying to twist anything. All I am asking is how can true love/altruism/selflessness can logically exist and have value in a society whose morality is based on the self?

"love thy neighbour as thy self"-----Even christianity recognizes the "self doctrine"

If you cant love yourself in the first place, how can you love others? Self is the beginning of everything.

MacDaddy01:

"love thy neighbour as thy self"-----Even christianity recognizes the "self doctrine"

If you cant love yourself in the first place, how can you love others? Self is the beginning of everything.

On the contrary, Christianity is the "God doctrine".
The complete passage starts with Love the Lord thy God. . . . .God is the beginning of everything.

Mr_Anony:
Well my friend, as I said earlier, the choice is yours. It is your call if you reject Him, The choice is still yours should you choose to turn back to Him.

Well, my friend, as i told you earlier, the choice is yours. it is ur call if you surrender your mind to religious control or not. the choice is still yours should you choose to deceive yourself and mortgage your real life for the imaginary promise of imaginary second life. you are not different from jihadists who mortgage their real life for the next imaginary life.

men, its fun using this inverted logic you practically invented on nairaland

Mr_Anony:
On the contrary, the complete part of that passage starts with Love the Lord thy God. God is the beginning of everything.

God? What does God understand about love?


-Telling a man to sacrifice his son (Abraham)
-Drowning the whole world except for one man and his family (the son of Noah ironically turned out to be a pervert)
-Sending his son to commit suicide (For God so loved the world but ated his only begotten son and sent him to die like a fowl on the cross)
-Creating hell for the unbelievers (God to man; I love you so much but if you dont show that love with slave-like obedience, you shall burn! )

cyrexx:

Well, my friend, as i told you earlier, the choice is yours. it is ur call if you surrender your mind to religious control or not. the choice is still yours should you choose to deceive yourself and mortgage your real life for the imaginary promise of imaginary second life. you are not different from jihadists who mortgage their real life for the next imaginary life.

men, its fun using this inverted logic you practically invented on nairaland

Yeah quite rightly so. . . .but remember we all have choices. The question is: Are you making the right choice?

I have heard you many times on this forum complain about hell and how God must be evil for sending someone to hell.
Now even if God is imaginary and hell/heaven is imaginary, I think now you will agree with me that in a case such as yours where a person constantly resists God that it is only fair that God should allow the person to face the consequences of his choices and not force the person into heaven against his will. Don't you agree?

Mr_Anony:
Yeah quite rightly so. . . .but remember we all have choices. The question is: Are you making the right choice?

I have heard you many times on this forum complain about hell and how God must be evil for sending someone to hell.
Now even if God is imaginary and hell/heaven is imaginary, I think now you will agree with me that in a case such as yours where a person constantly resists God that it is only fair that God should allow the person to face the consequences of his choices and not force the person into heaven against his will. Don't you agree?

Hell is the most foolish punishment I have ever heard of in my life.


Man lives for an average of 70 years but punish him for an eternity for sins committed in the 70 years?

The God of the bible does not exist, he is the most foolish and most wicked douchebag ever.

MacDaddy01:

God? What does God understand about love?


-Telling a man to sacrifice his son (Abraham)
-Drowning the whole world except for one man and his family (the son of Noah ironically turned out to be a pervert)
-Sending his son to commit suicide (For God so loved the world but ated his only begotten son and sent him to die like a fowl on the cross)
-Creating hell for the unbelievers (God to man; I love you so much but if you dont show that love with slave-like obedience, you shall burn! )

I see you are unable to keep within a logical argument. I refuse to be drawn into your shouting match

Mr_Anony:
Yeah quite rightly so. . . .but remember we all have choices. The question is: Are you making the right choice?

I have heard you many times on this forum complain about hell and how God must be evil for sending someone to hell.
Now even if God is imaginary and hell/heaven is imaginary, I think now you will agree with me that in a case such as yours where a person constantly resists God that it is only fair that God should allow the person to face the consequences of his choices and not force the person into heaven against his will. Don't you agree?

we've gone this road before, i wish not to go there again. save your message for other gullible souls who believe all these fairy tales in religion...

speaking of fairy tales.. let me share this joke my friend just send on my facebook wall.



enjoy the story:



Passion of Jesus: His final moments in heaven before descending to earth.

God: Jesus, Jesus, Jesusssssssssssssss! Jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay!!!

Jesus: Yes dad.

God: Where were you?

Jesus: I was doing the dishes, sir.

God: Well, [looking into the world in his palm] These mud-men of mine are just not behaving themselves. I mean, after we created them, they've just been all over the place, and I'm just feeling lonely I need to hear them sing, praise me and massage my ego, but all the prophets I've sent haven't been able to change them.

Jesus: Hmmmm.. Well, I guess Uncle Lucifer told you and was right!

God: Shut yer mouth! Or do you want me to send you to join him?

Jesus: Sorry sir!

God: Now, go get your stuffs together. I'll be sending you down to some desert and some people called Israel, the ones I've chosen amongst all of the mud-men.

Jesus: You're kidding, right?

God: No, I'm not and better not give me that attitude! I'll send you down through a virgin and you'll live amongst the mud-men for 33 years and on the last year they will beat you, drag you through the streets and nail you to a cross [smiling]

Jesus: WTF? What have I done to deserve this?

God: Well, I need to appease my ego and make a sacrifice to appease myself. And by the time your're back you'll become a hero amongst the mud-men, they will sing your praise for centuries.

Jesus: But, Dad! [weeping terribly] I dont want no cheap popularity.

God: Don't Dad me, pull up your pants and be gone.

Jesus walks away grumbling and crying... Walks into his room. The angels walk in.

Angel 1: Why are you crying Big J?

Jesus: Dad just said he'll send me to the world to go and die as a sacrifice for him, so he can save the mud-men he created 'from the sin he created and he knew they will go astray all along, but he went on and created them and even uncle Lucifer as well. [sobbing terribly].

Then I have to become a baby again - shit my pants and pee myself, feed on baby food and all that crap!

Angel 2: Well your dad, is a strict man, we can't really say shit. Hurry up boy, I'll keep your porridge warm..

The rest is history - Halleluyah!!

Mr_Anony:

My friend, It is interesting how you immediately equate the existence of Jesus to bad logic with no basis other than your bias.

I put it to you that even if there was a book written by Jesus available in your library, you will still have doubted and might even begin to ask why He didn't write the book in Yoruba instead of Hebrew.

Jesus has been made plain already. You can choose to accept Him or reject Him, it's your choice.

There you go again deflecting from the main issues and addressing non-issues. What I would have thought of his writings if he had any is very much immaterial and does nothing to the facts.
I have noticed you like to resort to diversions and vague dismissals when you encounter questions you obviously do not have answers to.
Questions christians do not like to answer:
1. How come no Historian of the of 1st century the time Jesus christ is believed to have existed made any direct mention of him and his very obvious works in all their writings and documents?
2. How come most of the stories surrounding the birth, life, death and ressurection Jesus Christ bear striking resemblance to pre-christian myths and mythical God-men.
It is no co-incidence that the stories of Jesus and the disciples match those of other Mystery religions and Pagan religions precisely because Christianity was another mystery Religion. A look into early christianity shows gnosticism written all over it.
One also finds out why none of the scholars of the time made mention of Jesus or the miracles around his life, because even the Christians themselves knew that they were symbolic stories, not actual events that happened. Christianity is just another copy of the typical son-of-god saviour religions of the time, nothing original or extra-ordinary.
Am just resisting the temptation to derail this thread else I would have inundated you with books and links that have made thorough research into unraveling the true identity of Jesus only to get more convinced that he is more of a mythological person than a historical one.
It is even revealed that all the actual sayings and teachings attributed to Jesus were also not new, and much of the time speeches attributed to Jesus are more like collections of Jewish and Pagan sayings.
Be honest to yourself and the truth, besides the bible and the writings of early christian fathers who made the Jesus claims, what else do we know about Jesus that is different from practices of mystic religions that existed before Jesus christ?

cyrexx:

we've gone this road before, i wish not to go there again. save your message for other gullible souls who believe all these fairy tales in religion...

Dude, you just evaded the question: The question was Imaginary God or not, would you consider God unfair if He allows someone to go to hell since the person has rejected heaven?

Mr_Anony:
Dude, you just evaded the question: The question was Imaginary God or not, would you consider God unfair if He allows someone to go to hell since the person has rejected heaven?

to answer your question: YES. he is wickedly unfair, like an imaginary bully in the sky, who can only flex his muscles in the next imaginary life

but provided no way to verify many of several religion's claims of these imaginary heaven and hell he had created to generate followership into those religions.

rhymz:
Questions christians do not like to answer:
1. How come no Historian of the of 1st century the time Jesus christ is believed to have existed made any direct mention of him and his very obvious works in all their writings and documents?

For starters, Luke was a historian. There are many writings about Jesus Christ written from eye witness accounts as well as many references to Jesus Christ not as a mythical figure but a living man. Most modern historians do not dispute the fact that Jesus actually existed as a man on earth. In fact if Jesus did not exist, Christianity wouldn't have grown because at the core of Christianity is that the Son of God came in the flesh.

2. How come most of the stories surrounding the birth, life, death and ressurection Jesus Christ bear striking resemblance to pre-christian myths and mythical God-men.
It is no co-incidence that the stories of Jesus and the disciples match those of other Mystery religions and Pagan religions precisely because Christianity was another mystery Religion. A look into early christianity shows gnosticism written all over it.

Perhaps you may want to tell us of these pre-christian myths. Open a thread and link it here, I'll be willing to engage you on it.

Mr_Anony:
Love is also selfless. I am not trying to twist anything. All I am asking is how can true love/altruism/selflessness can logically exist and have value in a society whose morality is based on the self?

My brother, my comments were directed at Kay 17. It's because I know the above that I was asking him to surprise us by not twisting the meaning of altruism.

cyrexx:

to answer your question: YES. he is wickedly unfair, like an imaginary bully in the sky, who can only flex his muscles in the next imaginary life

but provided no way to verify many of several religion's claims of these imaginary heaven and hell he had created to generate followership into those religions.

Thanks for answering.......Permit me to say this though: I don't trust your idea of fairness.

Ihedinobi:

My brother, my comments were directed at Kay 17. It's because I know the above that I was asking him to surprise us by not twisting the meaning of altruism.

Oh sorry, I thought I was responding to Kay 17.

cyrexx:

we've gone this road before, i wish not to go there again. save your message for other gullible souls who believe all these fairy tales in religion...

speaking of fairy tales.. let me share this joke my friend just send on my facebook wall.



enjoy the story:



Passion of Jesus: His final moments in heaven before descending to earth.

God: Jesus, Jesus, Jesusssssssssssssss! Jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay!!!

Jesus: Yes dad.

God: Where were you?

Jesus: I was doing the dishes, sir.

God: Well, [looking into the world in his palm] These mud-men of mine are just not behaving themselves. I mean, after we created them, they've just been all over the place, and I'm just feeling lonely I need to hear them sing, praise me and massage my ego, but all the prophets I've sent haven't been able to change them.

Jesus: Hmmmm.. Well, I guess Uncle Lucifer told you and was right!

God: Shut yer mouth! Or do you want me to send you to join him?

Jesus: Sorry sir!

God: Now, go get your stuffs together. I'll be sending you down to some desert and some people called Israel, the ones I've chosen amongst all of the mud-men.

Jesus: You're kidding, right?

God: No, I'm not and better not give me that attitude! I'll send you down through a virgin and you'll live amongst the mud-men for 33 years and on the last year they will beat you, drag you through the streets and nail you to a cross [smiling]

Jesus: WTF? What have I done to deserve this?

God: Well, I need to appease my ego and make a sacrifice to appease myself. And by the time your're back you'll become a hero amongst the mud-men, they will sing your praise for centuries.

Jesus: But, Dad! [weeping terribly] I dont want no cheap popularity.

God: Don't Dad me, pull up your pants and be gone.

Jesus walks away grumbling and crying... Walks into his room. The angels walk in.

Angel 1: Why are you crying Big J?

Jesus: Dad just said he'll send me to the world to go and die as a sacrifice for him, so he can save the mud-men he created 'from the sin he created and he knew they will go astray all along, but he went on and created them and even uncle Lucifer as well. [sobbing terribly].

Then I have to become a baby again - shit my pants and pee myself, feed on baby food and all that crap!

Angel 2: Well your dad, is a strict man, we can't really say shit. Hurry up boy, I'll keep your porridge warm..

The rest is history - Halleluyah!!

hahahahah. . I have been laughing my ass out at this joke. Too bad that I can boldly paste it on My FB wall without the risk of "religious friends and family" lecturing and rebuking you. Me I am a "christian of convenience", dont need people using my religious belief as an excuse to ostracize me, you know how irrationally religious Nigerians are.
But the Joke asked a lot of questions that I am surprised many christians have not been asking.
Why will an almighty, all-knowing God need his son as a sacrifice to save human beings from their supposed sins?
For what reason did he need Jesus to die for the human race? Is he incapable of turning them aright without asking Jesus to Die? Of what significance is his death to him, God almighty? Or even to Jesus, the alleged son of this God. The whole story seems like a copycat of pre-existing myth that did not exist in real life.

Ihedinobi: @Mr Anony, did I ever mention some people wanting Heaven without God in it? Well, here's proof.

Lol, I know right?
Folks want to eat their cake and have it.

rhymz: hahahahah. . I have been laughing my ass out at this joke. Too bad that I can boldly paste it on My FB wall without the risk of "religious friends and family" lecturing and rebuking you. Me I am a "christian of convenience", dont need people using my religious belief as an excuse to ostracize me, you know how irrationally religious Nigerians are.
But the Joke asked a lot of questions that I am surprised many christians have not been asking.
Why will an almighty, all-knowing God need his son as a sacrifice to save human beings from their supposed sins?
For what reason did he need Jesus to die for the human race? Is he incapable of turning them aright without asking Jesus to Die? Of what significance is his death to him, God almighty? Or even to Jesus, the alleged son of this God. The whole story seems like a copycat of pre-existing myth that did not exist in real life.

i wonder o, my brother.

they leave real issues and focus on non-issues.

that how religion will permanently de-activate the reasoning mode of human brain.

thanks for enjoying the joke with me.

rhymz: hahahahah. . I have been laughing my ass out at this joke. Too bad that I can boldly paste it on My FB wall without the risk of "religious friends and family" lecturing and rebuking you. Me I am a "christian of convenience", dont need people using my religious belief as an excuse to ostracize me, you know how irrationally religious Nigerians are.
But the Joke asked a lot of questions that I am surprised many christians have not been asking.
Why will an almighty, all-knowing God need his son as a sacrifice to save human beings from their supposed sins?
For what reason did he need Jesus to die for the human race? Is he incapable of turning them aright without asking Jesus to Die? Of what significance is his death to him, God almighty? Or even to Jesus, the alleged son of this God. The whole story seems like a copycat of pre-existing myth that did not exist in real life.

Are you really interested in answers to your questions? would you like to do a small Q&A exercise with me?

Mr_Anony:
Thanks for answering.......Permit me to say this though: I don't trust your idea of fairness.

its a free world, you can decide to turn a blind eye to anything you like.

quoting Bob Marley once again:

"you can fool some people at some time but you can fool everybody at everytime"

religion does that and humanism seeks to counter religion's fooling mission.

call humanist's bluff all you like, its the next stage in the evolution of human thought. our grandchildren's grandchildren will look at statements like these and wonder how their forefathers believe all these fairy tales from ancient antiquated books (bible and quran) based the promise of imaginary heaven.

so long.

cyrexx:

to answer your question: YES. he is wickedly unfair, like an imaginary bully in the sky, who can only flex his muscles in the next imaginary life

but provided no way to verify many of several religion's claims of these imaginary heaven and hell he had created to generate followership into those religions.

Funny Cyrexx....... The world around you isn't enough proof? Nor is the logical coherence of the Bible? Nor is the desire for better than you have right now? Dude, I think all the proof you demand is evidence that God is just man, or if we invert that, that man is his own God and makes his own heaven or hell. Well, have fun with that.

The proof that there is a Creator is a creation. The proof that there is evolution is that things are evolving. The proof that God doesn't want you to go to hell is your lack of desire to go there. The proof that there is a heaven is that you wanna go there. The proof that God is just is that you take punishments and rewards for granted.

If you want more proof, you're just giving more excuse to not believe in God and His Salvation.

Hell is God accepting your rejection of Him and accepting your insistence to be responsible for yourself. Heaven is the opposite.

cyrexx:

its a free world, you can decide to turn a blind eye to anything you like.

quoting Bob Marley once again:

"you can fool some people at some time but you can fool everybody at everytime"

religion does that and humanism seeks to counter religion's fooling mission.

call humanist's bluff all you like, its the next stage in the evolution of human thought. our grandchildren's grandchildren will look at statements like these and wonder how their forefathers believe all these fairy tales from ancient antiquated books (bible and quran) based the promise of imaginary heaven.

so long.

....so much for "logic and reason"

Ihedinobi:

Funny Cyrexx....... The world around you isn't enough proof? Nor is the logical coherence of the Bible? Nor is the desire for better than you have right now? Dude, I think all the proof you demand is evidence that God is just man, or if we invert that, that man is his own God and makes his own heaven or hell. Well, have fun with that.

The proof that there is a Creator is a creation. The proof that there is evolution is that things are evolving. The proof that God doesn't want you to go to hell is your lack of desire to go there. The proof that there is a heaven is that you wanna go there. The proof that God is just is that you take punishments and rewards for granted.

If you want more proof, you're just giving more excuse to not believe in God and His Salvation.

Hell is God accepting your rejection of Him and accepting your insistence to be responsible for yourself. Heaven is the opposite.

1.the world around me is no proof of anything. it might have been created by Allah or Orunmila (my ancestor's God) or Brahma or any other myriads of non-Yahweh Gods.

or better yet, it might have a perfectly natural scientific explanation as is being studied by experts in cosmogenesis and abiogenesis.

2. the bible is logically incoherent. i can show you if you want to see.

3. the desire for better than i have now is no proof of yahweh any more than proof of my uncle Joe or flying spaghetti monster. come on stronger, dude. even your clone is better than this. learn properly from your master.

4. i have provided answers to that hell bullcrap in religions in my earlier posts. no need to parrot myself here again.

By self definition, I didn't mean selfishness. Just saying purpose emanates from the individual.

Mr_Anony:
....so much for "logic and reason"

For most of our friends "logic and reason" = rant; unthinking/ill-thought and sometimes even senseless rant.